You must not be familiar with the term ninja, in that case.
The current Need or Greed loot system does not include any sort of class entitlement with regards to loot drops. As such, and no matter how unsportsmanlike it is, a person isn't technically in the wrong, if they select Need on an item they cannot use. Thus, what is needed is a new loot system that does take that into consideration.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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pinkysansbrainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
The current Need or Greed loot system does not include any sort of class entitlement with regards to loot drops. As such, and no matter how unsportsmanlike it is, a person isn't technically in the wrong, if they select Need on an item they cannot use. Thus, what is needed is a new loot system that does take that into consideration.
Yeah but sorry no, if it's not your class, you're not entitled to the loot. That's it. You hit Greed or pass. That's all. There IS class entitlement.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Yeah but sorry no, if it's not your class, you're not entitled to the loot. That's it. You hit Greed or pass. That's all. There IS class entitlement.
The loot system says otherwise. Yes, choosing need on an item you can't use is unsportsmanlike, but there blatantly is NOT any sort of entitlement. Entitlement implies some sort of right to something, but the game does not make that distinction. As I stated, there *should* be a loot system implemented so as to provide a system that does have class-based loot entitlement, however.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Your topic says ninja and exploit. You spoke of neither?
Did you know that some words have multiple meanings?
For instance, the word "exploit" can mean to take advantage of something or someone for personal gain, and was used that way long before it was used to describe people finding loopholes in video games.
I agree with what a few have mentioned, can't roll need on items that are class specific. Anything else is fair game though. It makes sense to me, and promotes people grouping. If I know going into a group that my chances of loot are better because not everyone can roll on loot that belongs to my class...I am a much happier and willing participant.
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selist1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree they should be doing specific loot roles so that all the gear cannot be ninja'd by other classes because all it does is end up on the AH.
This is nothing new, but I wanted to share. I was in the spellplague caverns and our leader dropped early so the lead command went to somebody else. As we were rolling along the foereaver 2-hander sword drops. I'm the only GWF so I roll need, but the control wizard decided he was going to roll need as well. You can guess the rest of the story from there.
Please fix the loot system. People should not be able to roll need on boss drops. I don't think that is to difficult to figure out.
do to terrible pricing model in the cash shop are players that understand that rolling need on gear=AD=zen thus they will need on EVERYTHING!
Yes... now if only there were an option that reflected that drop that he didn't need to use, but only wanted to use it for greedy purposes were in the game... if ONLY there were such an option....
I see, you're the person that gets to decide who needs what and who only wants it. It's always fun having other people think for you.
So you're saying that some random blue drop worth say 50K AD in the auction house is more important to you because you can immediately wear it and you NEED it. But since I'm a mage and can't wear it, and even though I could sell it for 50K AD and buy a weapon I NEED to perform better in a group, that I'm being greedy and only WANT the item.
Thanks for clearing that up. Just remember that when you're grinding end game epics. Remember that guy needs that 150K worth of AD and you don't. You know nothing is stopping him from selling that.
tbh ninjaing is only solved by master looter. if u cant get a Group of decent folks that know not to need on stuff they "cant use for their class, and i dont mean sell" then put on master looter.
usually i start a Group and say straight of, only need on your class items, what u are actually gonna Wear and then need. greed on rest i say. Things aint bound either, so u can trade if mistakes happen. but if u come across a Ninja, kick them, blacklist them. and if u come across many put master looter on and explain why. if u are trustworthy, and give the correct loot, there should be no problem. end off.
I see, you're the person that gets to decide who needs what and who only wants it. It's always fun having other people think for you.
So you're saying that some random blue drop worth say 50K AD in the auction house is more important to you because you can immediately wear it and you NEED it. But since I'm a mage and can't wear it, and even though I could sell it for 50K AD and buy a weapon I NEED to perform better in a group, that I'm being greedy and only WANT the item.
Thanks for clearing that up. Just remember that when you're grinding end game epics. Remember that guy needs that 150K worth of AD and you don't. You know nothing is stopping him from selling that.
so u would need on an item just to sell it for Money....where as others in your team actually NEED that item. so if your class loot drops we should all just need that too, just so we can sell it to u lol. i think not. grow up, not how it Works, and get some decency while u are at it pls. your statement is what makes me put master looter on even more.
end of the day u decide what kind of person u wanna be. so if u wanna be sure not to have Ninjas, lead the Group, and put master looter. be fair and give correct loot, and there rly is no problem. only ninjaes will moan:)
so u would need on an item just to sell it for Money....where as others in your team actually NEED that item. so if your class loot drops we should all just need that too, just so we can sell it to u lol. i think not. grow up, not how it Works, and get some decency while u are at it pls. your statement is what makes me put master looter on even more.
Again, you're deciding who needs what. If I'm undergeared and can sell or trade the drop to gear up then why shouldn't I need on the roll? Your answer is because you adhere to a different system and say so. Telling me to accept it because you say so doesn't convince me.
Of course people should roll on the gear I want. They want it too. Why would I expect people not to roll? I expect everyone to roll every time. I'll be disappointed when I lose rolls and happy when I win.
very sry to offend u with my non perfect English....lol....
and yes torskaldr in my Groups the people fighting gets the gear they need. lets say a rogue chest drops, we have a rogue WHO needs it, but the cleric wants to sell it, ok. so u say let cleric roll? what if it was opposite.... cleric gear drops, rogue needs it? ok? so u rly dont want to get any gear out of dungeons? if its your class gear that drops? u dont think u deserve it for beeing there doing your part? u think ok its my gear, but that guy can sell it....so its ok. fine with me....just dont do it in my groups:) happy hunting
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valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
ninja looting isn't an exploit. And neither is it something new.
First the disclaimer: I play nice with others - I only Need when something is useable by me when I think it's going to be an upgrade, otherwise it's Greed/Pass.
That said, there's a lot to be said for everyone rolling Need on everything. First, it's the only absolutely fair method of loot distribution. Everyone has an equal shot - that is, by definition, fair. Now it is not the most efficient means of loot distribution, as it will take everyone longer to get their class loot (unless the AH is exceptionally efficient.)
But then the question is: can we be efficient while still being fair? I think that's in serious doubt. If we pick one of the proposed solutions (which all boil down to preferentially awarding loot to those that can use it on the character in the instance), we are relying on the idea that Cryptic will put equally attractive loot for each class in the instance. So far, anecdotal evidence suggests that Cryptic is far from the mark.
So what will happen then? If we are forced to use a system where you can't get cross-class loot, people will stop doing instances that don't drop well for their class. Given how underplayed tanks are at the moment, that means that tank-instances will get run first, and if you want to run anything else, better be in a guild with a good-natured tank.
Don't say it can't happen, it happens in a lot of other games with BoP loot that makes instances unattractive to one class or another.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I agree with this entirely, It is very frustrating to see that just about EVERY instance I ran this was occurring to me with my rogue drops... Everyone keeps saying everyman to themselves. but if this is the case then, Eliminate group quests, Eliminate group dungeons, Eliminated the roll system. The loot system should consist of whoever grabs the item from the ground first gets it with no need to roll, also, they should eliminate devoted clerics from the game. The way the loot is occurring right now, might as well not even say Need/Greed/Pass, just make it roll automatically and give it to anyone, cause im loving the game but quickly getting sick of playing with the way it works out.
I agree with the fact that the loot needs fixed, however you all of you use the term "ninja looting" incorrectly. Ninja looting is setting a party to leader only loot as the boss is about to die and then takes all the loot and leaves.
There is nothing ninja about winning a roll, even it is ethically wrong (opinion) to roll need on something you can't use.
Losing a need roll to someone you are in competition with between your mother's basement in Bakersfield and another mother's basement in Cleveland = Pathetic
Discussing the relevance of the term "ninja looting" in a f2p game forum = Priceless
I agree with the fact that the loot needs fixed, however you all of you use the term "ninja looting" incorrectly. Ninja looting is setting a party to leader only loot as the boss is about to die and then takes all the loot and leaves.
There is nothing ninja about winning a roll, even it is ethically wrong (opinion) to roll need on something you can't use.
missed this, and agree, Again why master looter seems to be the only way forward, u make sure the classes that can use the item roll and not the others. its not what we wished for, but only solution if u play with strangers.
The current Need or Greed loot system does not include any sort of class entitlement with regards to loot drops. As such, and no matter how unsportsmanlike it is, a person isn't technically in the wrong, if they select Need on an item they cannot use. Thus, what is needed is a new loot system that does take that into consideration.
Don't really need a new system, just amend the code where need only lights up for a member of the class assigned to the loot item. This kind of a thing was a problem in other games, where loot could be usable by two or more classes, but in this game, I've yet to see an item of green or better quality (with a few exceptions) that wasn't tagged with a specific class. It's something that should be doable in the current system. (Not saying it would be easy, as I don't know what the code looks like, but all the elements exist currently to make it happen).
I love the sense of entitlement in this thread. Get some friends. Join a guild. Then run the dungeon. If you don't like the PUG dynamics then quit using them. Pretty simple. People should be able to roll pass/greed/need on whatever they want.
I really hope Cryptic doesn't listen to this thread.
Why do people feel entitled to loot? They did their part just as much as you did. Does it get annoying for some to lose out on loot? Sure, but it doesn't make it yours just because you want it. They want the AD, maybe the weapon or item they wanted didn't drop, but by selling the one they got they can now buy their item.
Get a guild and roll with guildies. Problem solved.
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juneaux6Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
The looting system needs to be changed ASAP it is killing PvE. Loot dropped in Dungeons, off bosses should NOT be bind on equiped. This allows dishonest players to roll on items they DO NOT need or can NOT use, to just sell it on the Auction House for Astral Diamonds. This has to be fixed soon.
You can start by making loot rolls class specific, so if you can use the item then you can roll on it. You can also make it so that items that drop from bosses are Bind on Pick Up not Bind on Equip. It really is killing the PvE for me at max level. I have recently have had trouble with dishonest players rolling need on items that they can't use. My latest Dungeon run I had a Control Wizard roll need for a Guardian Fighter Chest piece, win the roll then leave the party. And when asked they said that it was a misclick and that someone kicked them from the party. Seeing as I was the Party Leader, and didn't kick anyone I was confused. Then I later see that item in question on the AH for 900kAD. I'm not going to believe "sorry misclick" anymore.
This needs to be fixed soon or I don't know If I can trust anyone in a pick up group ever again.
Also the Control Wizard in question is <removed> Just so that you are forewarned. Put a ticket to a GM to report that player but I highly doubt they will pay attention to it.
whats the pt of an auction house then if we cant sell items
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2013
. . . . . We're not going to be tossing insults and insinuations against anyone here. The OP does have a relevant topic there-in however: The Loot System and How it Can Be Improved. Discussions of the moralities of players rolling need or greed will not be allowed as that is a form of bias and personal attacks to call any player an insult, direct or indirect.
. . . . . If you all want to, feel free to start a Constructive Topic about (one thread please, multiples will be merged) what I just mentioned: The Loot System and How it Can Be Improved
. . . . . Because of the very nature of the OP topic and how everything unfolded, this thread is closed. I just merged another thread into this one that also started with insults and derogative remarks. Let's remain civil and post our opinions and feedback in a Constructive and non-insulting manner. Thanks!
Comments
You must not be familiar with the term ninja, in that case.
The current Need or Greed loot system does not include any sort of class entitlement with regards to loot drops. As such, and no matter how unsportsmanlike it is, a person isn't technically in the wrong, if they select Need on an item they cannot use. Thus, what is needed is a new loot system that does take that into consideration.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Yeah but sorry no, if it's not your class, you're not entitled to the loot. That's it. You hit Greed or pass. That's all. There IS class entitlement.
The loot system says otherwise. Yes, choosing need on an item you can't use is unsportsmanlike, but there blatantly is NOT any sort of entitlement. Entitlement implies some sort of right to something, but the game does not make that distinction. As I stated, there *should* be a loot system implemented so as to provide a system that does have class-based loot entitlement, however.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Did you know that some words have multiple meanings?
For instance, the word "exploit" can mean to take advantage of something or someone for personal gain, and was used that way long before it was used to describe people finding loopholes in video games.
Insert rainbow-star here.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
._.
Selist@selist1
do to terrible pricing model in the cash shop are players that understand that rolling need on gear=AD=zen thus they will need on EVERYTHING!
I see, you're the person that gets to decide who needs what and who only wants it. It's always fun having other people think for you.
So you're saying that some random blue drop worth say 50K AD in the auction house is more important to you because you can immediately wear it and you NEED it. But since I'm a mage and can't wear it, and even though I could sell it for 50K AD and buy a weapon I NEED to perform better in a group, that I'm being greedy and only WANT the item.
Thanks for clearing that up. Just remember that when you're grinding end game epics. Remember that guy needs that 150K worth of AD and you don't. You know nothing is stopping him from selling that.
seems lagerale is a stinking ninja himself. a CW rolling need on a greatsword aint ninja'ing then im he president of the USA
usually i start a Group and say straight of, only need on your class items, what u are actually gonna Wear and then need. greed on rest i say. Things aint bound either, so u can trade if mistakes happen. but if u come across a Ninja, kick them, blacklist them. and if u come across many put master looter on and explain why. if u are trustworthy, and give the correct loot, there should be no problem. end off.
so u would need on an item just to sell it for Money....where as others in your team actually NEED that item. so if your class loot drops we should all just need that too, just so we can sell it to u lol. i think not. grow up, not how it Works, and get some decency while u are at it pls. your statement is what makes me put master looter on even more.
Again, you're deciding who needs what. If I'm undergeared and can sell or trade the drop to gear up then why shouldn't I need on the roll? Your answer is because you adhere to a different system and say so. Telling me to accept it because you say so doesn't convince me.
Of course people should roll on the gear I want. They want it too. Why would I expect people not to roll? I expect everyone to roll every time. I'll be disappointed when I lose rolls and happy when I win.
and yes torskaldr in my Groups the people fighting gets the gear they need. lets say a rogue chest drops, we have a rogue WHO needs it, but the cleric wants to sell it, ok. so u say let cleric roll? what if it was opposite.... cleric gear drops, rogue needs it? ok? so u rly dont want to get any gear out of dungeons? if its your class gear that drops? u dont think u deserve it for beeing there doing your part? u think ok its my gear, but that guy can sell it....so its ok. fine with me....just dont do it in my groups:) happy hunting
funny thing is i never did this before, i only needed on stuff i could wear.
why did i do this? cause of this thread, LoL. your QQ gave me reason to. nice to know how mad u get when someone does this
and this is sad too:) but funny how u blame others for what u are doing
First the disclaimer: I play nice with others - I only Need when something is useable by me when I think it's going to be an upgrade, otherwise it's Greed/Pass.
That said, there's a lot to be said for everyone rolling Need on everything. First, it's the only absolutely fair method of loot distribution. Everyone has an equal shot - that is, by definition, fair. Now it is not the most efficient means of loot distribution, as it will take everyone longer to get their class loot (unless the AH is exceptionally efficient.)
But then the question is: can we be efficient while still being fair? I think that's in serious doubt. If we pick one of the proposed solutions (which all boil down to preferentially awarding loot to those that can use it on the character in the instance), we are relying on the idea that Cryptic will put equally attractive loot for each class in the instance. So far, anecdotal evidence suggests that Cryptic is far from the mark.
So what will happen then? If we are forced to use a system where you can't get cross-class loot, people will stop doing instances that don't drop well for their class. Given how underplayed tanks are at the moment, that means that tank-instances will get run first, and if you want to run anything else, better be in a guild with a good-natured tank.
Don't say it can't happen, it happens in a lot of other games with BoP loot that makes instances unattractive to one class or another.
Losing a need roll to someone you are in competition with between your mother's basement in Bakersfield and another mother's basement in Cleveland = Pathetic
Discussing the relevance of the term "ninja looting" in a f2p game forum = Priceless
missed this, and agree, Again why master looter seems to be the only way forward, u make sure the classes that can use the item roll and not the others. its not what we wished for, but only solution if u play with strangers.
Don't really need a new system, just amend the code where need only lights up for a member of the class assigned to the loot item. This kind of a thing was a problem in other games, where loot could be usable by two or more classes, but in this game, I've yet to see an item of green or better quality (with a few exceptions) that wasn't tagged with a specific class. It's something that should be doable in the current system. (Not saying it would be easy, as I don't know what the code looks like, but all the elements exist currently to make it happen).
I really hope Cryptic doesn't listen to this thread.
Get a guild and roll with guildies. Problem solved.
You can start by making loot rolls class specific, so if you can use the item then you can roll on it. You can also make it so that items that drop from bosses are Bind on Pick Up not Bind on Equip. It really is killing the PvE for me at max level. I have recently have had trouble with dishonest players rolling need on items that they can't use. My latest Dungeon run I had a Control Wizard roll need for a Guardian Fighter Chest piece, win the roll then leave the party. And when asked they said that it was a misclick and that someone kicked them from the party. Seeing as I was the Party Leader, and didn't kick anyone I was confused. Then I later see that item in question on the AH for 900kAD. I'm not going to believe "sorry misclick" anymore.
This needs to be fixed soon or I don't know If I can trust anyone in a pick up group ever again.
Also the Control Wizard in question is <removed> Just so that you are forewarned. Put a ticket to a GM to report that player but I highly doubt they will pay attention to it.
. . . . . If you all want to, feel free to start a Constructive Topic about (one thread please, multiples will be merged) what I just mentioned: The Loot System and How it Can Be Improved
. . . . . Because of the very nature of the OP topic and how everything unfolded, this thread is closed. I just merged another thread into this one that also started with insults and derogative remarks. Let's remain civil and post our opinions and feedback in a Constructive and non-insulting manner. Thanks!
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