If someone power levels to level 60 using an exploit in the foundry, how does it negatively impact other players? If they were somehow harming other players, I would understand, but I fail to see any harm to others.
Is PW selling experience-gain boosters? I suppose it could hurt their sales on that item.
Part of the F2P model is 'money for convenience' after all.
It's an exploit, part of the TOS and EULA is that you won't use exploits. Pretty cut and dry too me.
Cryptic got themselfs to blame for "not thinking this would be a thing" come on now. You're better than that.
Banning people for using YOUR OWN legal creation tool to create whatever, is lame and sad.
Believing words like "don't do it it's not right" to work on the internet has already
doomed you. You should know that things you say means the total opposite for trolls.
Cryptic knew this would happen just not how big it would be, the fact that they've squashed this particular exploit within a week shows how hard they were watching the metrics relating to the Foundry in case these sorts of exploits took off.
Who reads ToS or the EULA, just press accept and be done rofl.
I don't but I do know pretty much how it would read. And a partial list of things that they can deny you service for are hacks, abusing other players, Exploits and reverse engineering the game. I also know that part of the EULA and TOS is to report exploits when you see them. You know, basic stuff in every MMO EULA and TOS. Besides, if you went for a loan and didn't read the loan agreement in full do you say that you didn't read the loan agreement when the debt collectors show up to default on the loan?
Sure they knew it was wrong, but this is the interwebs and the creation tool allowed for diverse creations.
Cryptic could have prevented this by restricting things before RELEASING It to the public.
Sure they could, we could have wound up with something as pathetic as the MA in CoX, oh wait, wasn't that rife with exploits and farming missions too.
Some people will spend more time figuring out how to get to level 60 ASAP than it would take too legitmately level to 60, that's just human nature. The only way they could have guaranteed no exploits was to make it worthless to play Foundry missions anyway.
Don't blame the player. Blame the creator for allowing the player to go that far in the first place.
thanks
Don't throw that out here, the players were fully aware of what they were doing and that what they were doing was wrong, there was mass bannings in CoX over similar things that made all the MMO newssites and this is even worse than that as they're designing the maps specifically with these things in mind.
shouldnt matter what they want, there job should be over as far as what they want. its about what we want as the investors.
You're not an investor you're a customer, you don't get an cash value ROI from the money you pay and have no right to dictate company policy, you do have the right to disagree with it, just not decide what it is.
Been playing Neverwinter for a week now still only 24 I think people should take their time and take in the nice stuff. ( but thats just my opinion ) . I think foundry exploiters should be chased with fire and magnets but a lot of people learning to use the foundry and have published very basic mishes are getting labeled exploiters by the more pretentious "authors". This is a problem also.
Don't bother with that goof. Nothing but a troll who whines about anyone that doesn't play the same way they do. There isn't one constructive post of theirs in the entire thread.
You mean, the person who started the thread in the first place?
I'm not the one being banned, so it looks like Cryptic is agreeing with the way I play, whereas your way.... Well, we all see where that is getting us now, don't we?
It's too bad a few bad apples had to ruin the fun for the rest of us, who did Foundry missions for FUN, because this is a GAME, after all
Xaazx... Kim isn't saying you suck. She's pointing out the silliness of HAVING TO PLAY A GAME.
Play a game. It's not work. It's play. It's fun. Oh no. You have to play a game!
-Rachel-
Did you miss the part where he points out that he's already leveled by doing all of the quests? Have YOU done all of the quests? Now, go make another character and do it all over again... how much fun is that? Some people like mindlessly grinding mobs, it's a lot more productive, usually, than running around from quest to quest.
0
bigredlunchboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Players may now report Terms of Service violations when dropping a Foundry quest. Foundry experience has been tweaked for balancing purposes.
Hah, <removed>.
Did you actually think what you were doing was ok? Just because it is possible to do something, doesn't make it right. But Cryptic still dropped the ball: They should be reverting all foundry experience point gains to 0, in cases where the exploitation is obvious.
At least it's a step in the right direction, I suppose.
It's not our fault the developers are absolute trash and can't make monster path reset its health. You can abuse this bug to farm bosses to this day find where and do it if you want. The pathing AI bug is not fixed and will not be fixed. They just shat all over foundry instead of fixing the actual bug.
Did you miss the part where he points out that he's already leveled by doing all of the quests? Have YOU done all of the quests? Now, go make another character and do it all over again... how much fun is that? Some people like mindlessly grinding mobs, it's a lot more productive, usually, than running around from quest to quest.
But this game rewards questing, so why not do that?
You mean, the person who started the thread in the first place?
I'm not the one being banned, so it looks like Cryptic is agreeing with the way I play, whereas your way.... Well, we all see where that is getting us now, don't we?
It's too bad a few bad apples had to ruin the fun for the rest of us, who did Foundry missions for FUN, because this is a GAME, after all
Well, IMO, your thread isn't really all that constructive. It started as an "I told you so, ha ha ha..." You also found some extra enjoyment by creating a drama thread for people to rage in. In other words, you really did start a troll thread.
But this game rewards questing, so why not do that?
Rewards questing... how? Maybe every 10 armor pieces given by a quest was used by me. But in reality, no rewards were worth the time it took to follow the quest story and run back to turn it in. Now, knowing that, why would I want to do it on my other characters?
Well, IMO, your thread isn't really all that constructive. It started as an "I told you so, ha ha ha..." You also found some extra enjoyment by creating a drama thread for people to rage in. In other words, you really did start a troll thread.
Of course it's an 'I told you so' thread!
I told people, in enclave chat, in my Guild, everywhere I could, to stop farming exploit foundry quests. They kept going, and now the Foundry is goign to take a huge hit becuase of them. If that doesn't deserve an 'I told you so', I don't know what does.....
I told people, in enclave chat, in my Guild, everywhere I could, to stop farming exploit foundry quests. They kept going, and now the Foundry is goign to take a huge hit becuase of them. If that doesn't deserve an 'I told you so', I don't know what does.....
WOAH THERE KIDDO! I agree exploiters should be slapped in thar ***** face but you cant go around telling players how to play the game. It just come across as annoying.
I told people, in enclave chat, in my Guild, everywhere I could, to stop farming exploit foundry quests. They kept going, and now the Foundry is goign to take a huge hit becuase of them. If that doesn't deserve an 'I told you so', I don't know what does.....
Just pointing out that you were indeed trolling the forums with this thread just like that guy was saying.
I feel like they're ignoring the player community and not addressing the concerns in an official announcement. I hate developers that do this. They treat the players like HAMSTER. I grow so much closer to leaving the game. I for one would like to farm Foundry quests because the actual game itself is boring as hell and its a typical game grind. On top of that, they charge money for respecs?!? They need to fix the game first before they start swinging the ban hammer on such trivial of a matter.
I feel like they're ignoring the player community and not addressing the concerns in an official announcement. I hate developers that do this. They treat the players like HAMSTER. I grow so much closer to leaving the game. I for one would like to farm Foundry quests because the actual game itself is boring as hell and its a typical game grind. On top of that, they charge money for respecs?!? They need to fix the game first before they start swinging the ban hammer on such trivial of a matter.
its not trivial when they can bypass all of the developers content in a few hours, and get to max level
I feel like they're ignoring the player community and not addressing the concerns in an official announcement. I hate developers that do this. They treat the players like HAMSTER. I grow so much closer to leaving the game. I for one would like to farm Foundry quests because the actual game itself is boring as hell and its a typical game grind. On top of that, they charge money for respecs?!? They need to fix the game first before they start swinging the ban hammer on such trivial of a matter.
The problem is that they'll eventually want to move onto a model like STO's foundry reward system where instead of a daily wrapper, you'll get AD based on the length of the quest, and they've just had to try and smash a massive exploit where people were gaining 10 million dilithium ore (Rough AD) in less than an hour. This has resulted in the removal of all the Dilithium and Dilithium Ore earned from this, people being banned from making foundry missions and could result in people being banned from the game altogether.
If they go soft on people exploiting the foundry for XP now, then they could find themselves without a leg to stand on when people are exploiting it for AD which can be transferred into Zen.
0
inspector135711Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Rant [ON]
TLDR?
I don't care.
As someone explicitly interested in utilizing the foundry to build an audience, I find this whole issue overly ambiguous and disheartening. Can we get some definite figures in regards to what the now historical and present "as of patch" values are for the parameters with which rewards for the foundry quests/campaigns are handled? I certainly hope so, as if it remains one of the Colonels 7 spices, the foundry creator community will hang in the noose and suffocate before this merely remains a sad drama in an otherwise short life.
Are we to presume that people aren't to farm at all in the Cryptic staff created content?
Knowing how the seals work, I hardly think that is a hard question to answer definitively.
I honestly hoped and believed there was actual intent in the "claims" that there was to be no distinguishable difference between normal content and the foundry. Maybe I just interpreted the press releases wrong... If I did in-fact hear them right though, the patch notes today wholeheartedly crush my dream like a fiery ban-hammer colored meteor strike.
I suppose they are a company... IDK why I would believe anyone(corporations are people too... :P) with capital as their primary motive to do anything altruistic like create a tool that would allow the first rule of power to be infringed upon(which they apparantly havent done, so I'm ok, and thus now save from naivety).
So, does that make the foundry the antithesis of what I had hoped? Is it in actuality a tool for them to essentially gain legal claim over intellectual properties wholesale, and in addition to that, get free content generated to help sustain their product when executives, board members and managers eventually decide they have employed this current team of employees long enough and start thinking in terms of "top heavy" so to justify their desire to lay off folks during "hard economic cycles" in order to escape their own culpability? Ugg... "enjoy it while it lasts", I guess.
So, beyond that is it going to be worth the 1000 hours or more it will take to create an episodic serial campaign with content designed to rival the actual developers? Is it even possible with the foundry?
Rhetorical arguments aside, I for one feel a little jipped, dispite NW's free to play aspect.
I am not a person that worships money. I loath it actually. That said, I have invested alot more than an arbitrary "founder package" which = $200 that some money worshiper could possibly excrete without so much as a grunt. The sad truth is $ has given preferential treatment to folks here, gotten them pre-release access, cookies, piles of bacon... and its lame as hell. Beta players ALL should have founder tags, since they have helped release the **** game. The fact remains they are founders regardless of tags, so whatever. In regards to this aspect, my most regreted point is the corporate progression philosophy here has given some "wealthy" few early access to the foundry so they can essentially corner the market during the time that market was at its most lucrative. Meanwhile those of us with content that will take a couple years or so to make are left with a far less effective system.
I can't really imagine I am surprised, since corporations are as exploitative of their customers as their forum trolls are of them, but still, a cave man can dream...
WTH is the "games industry" coming to when you can just buy your way into alpha. Where is the integrity? Is that finally up in a cash shop somewhere now? Please say it is, because I have a stockpile to offload if your trying to increase your supply.
I know this all sounds pretty "ranty", which is why I went back and added the "rant tag", but this is hog-tyingly frustrating.
If someone buys you a fruit basket, it is OK to give them the fast track to 60, but someone uses your mission editor to make a means for them to get some of that fruit basked, and you turn around and say, "whoa, that fruit was never intended for you" and remove their motivation? I am not talking about pathing exploits or anything in the "exploit" tier of discussion either, but rather ALL following Foundry content, since XP and loot rewards are not exactly the same as "normal" PWE created content rewards. So, I say again, aside from pure altruistic nature, or ego-maniacal compulsion, what incentive does a content creator have to publish with the foundry now?
For now at least, I presume that most of those who would have sought to utilize foundry missions are now going to be trimmed down to whose who will be playing them solely from the "cool story bro" factor.
/sigh
I guess I was just hoping for more.
Lets see, I'll list those hopes, born of "promises, sunshine and rainbow farts"... (Let me remind you now, please feel free to ignore me as you see fit, kind reader):
A comprehensive D&D based environment which we as a community could re-create and release the 40 or so years of original content that has accumulated at the base of Gygax's throne.
The same comprehensive environment to re-create the content I have spent the past 20 years developing.
A place to publish it to consumers where it would be appreciated and I could notice that appreciation for the "warm and fuzzy" feeling of verified accomplishment.
A medium where I could, as a content creator, gain worthy recognition that may serve to bolster my portfolio.
A place where I could socialize with with other like minded level, mission, character designers, and general Dungeon/Game masters.
So, all that said, I guess "most" of my hopes remains intact(assuming we don't weigh them individually) and I shouldn't be TOO "heart broken". I also suppose those of us that play for the story will still play for the story, and the foundry will be probably be perfectly viable "end-game", but I was really hoping to actually have the traffic inherent to a product open to a free volume of players that didn't have incentives to absolutely skip over the content I have been developing(and I DO mean end, considering that in computer software based multi-user RPG's, acquisition is the primary incentive for the broadest group of users... the foundry will be the LAST resort for players wishing to hang on to their vestments).
As loth as I am of the practice, I think I would have preferred this "balancing" to have been done as a "stealth nerf" considering the impact the patch note(who knows what was actually done?) its-self will have/is having with players that actually READ.
-_-
I would just like to reiterate right about now, that my comment has nothing to do with banning exploiters. Huzzah, I say! By all means, get rid of them as you, the ACTUAL developers and owners of the D&D License, deem necessary.
I would however like to remind vigilant use of due diligence and that moderators and administrators use EXTREME caution in their execution of will... as a company claimant to a Beta software implementation there is a not so fine line there in "utilization of exploit" when it is pertaining to TESTERS. And regardless of caution, I doubt there will not be a "lot" of people unjustly banned and or hurt by over zealous application of the force with a ban-hammerer (not to be confused with the ban-hammererioteer: one who rides those who wield ban-hammers riotously into the glorious corporate battlefields of red drenched green glory).
I just know from experience both off and on the court that it is much more often than not with great haste that the hammer is swung and that in that zeal the truly innocent are grouped in with those deserving of retribution.
I not only speak as a courtesan but also speak as a victim of these types affairs and a witness, and know as fact that with the volume of customers here, the chance for a plebe to plead a case is unreasonably low when compared to smaller communities.
Anyhew, enough on that for now, since in this case I have not bought myself a hammer nor affiliated myself with anyone worthy of notice.
-_-
In conclusion(Yup, time to wrap this up and throw it overboard), I think I will probably play my cards close to my chest regarding the creation of foundry content now that I am better apprised of the situation and remembering how legal beagle this business is. I don't know who it was that made the call to "renegotiate" with/dictate to us the terms of the promised foundry utility, and more importantly I don't want to know(though I can not un-guess. ;P), but despite my disappointment, I do wish mercy upon you and may you only ever be blamed for enthusiasm and hype building.
It's a shame really, I was really looking forward to introducing you all to a side of Abeir Toril you probably never imagined. Oh well, I guess that gives me license to stick to developing content in NW's near-scope, just don't expect any sweepingly original DnD content from me(which you weren't expecting and or wanting anyway... ;P).
/shrug , indeed
I should probably thank you for reminding me why I have been developing my content for 20 years and have not shared it with anyone without an NDA
Thanks!
Rant [OFF]
^ Do you honestly think anybody is going to read that? How many chinese did you hire to build that ****in wall dude?
All in all there's better ways to get to 60 than exp grind through foundry. I'll admit I got multiple characters high level by exploiting the foundry. They can ban me, that's fine. It's f2p and I can make a million more accounts. Just like I used the quest sharing system to rush levels as well. This is what happens when you have a shotty business model such as the one PWE has been using for years.
As someone explicitly interested in utilizing the foundry to build an audience, I find this whole issue overly ambiguous and disheartening. Can we get some definite figures in regards to what the now historical and present "as of patch" values are for the parameters with which rewards for the foundry quests/campaigns are handled? I certainly hope so, as if it remains one of the Colonels 7 spices, the foundry creator community will hang in the noose and suffocate before this merely remains a sad drama in an otherwise short life.
Are we to presume that people aren't to farm at all in the Cryptic staff created content?
Knowing how the seals work, I hardly think that is a hard question to answer definitively.
I honestly hoped and believed there was actual intent in the "claims" that there was to be no distinguishable difference between normal content and the foundry. Maybe I just interpreted the press releases wrong... If I did in-fact hear them right though, the patch notes today wholeheartedly crush my dream like a fiery ban-hammer colored meteor strike.
I suppose they are a company... IDK why I would believe anyone(corporations are people too... :P) with capital as their primary motive to do anything altruistic like create a tool that would allow the first rule of power to be infringed upon(which they apparantly havent done, so I'm ok, and thus now save from naivety).
So, does that make the foundry the antithesis of what I had hoped? Is it in actuality a tool for them to essentially gain legal claim over intellectual properties wholesale, and in addition to that, get free content generated to help sustain their product when executives, board members and managers eventually decide they have employed this current team of employees long enough and start thinking in terms of "top heavy" so to justify their desire to lay off folks during "hard economic cycles" in order to escape their own culpability? Ugg... "enjoy it while it lasts", I guess.
So, beyond that is it going to be worth the 1000 hours or more it will take to create an episodic serial campaign with content designed to rival the actual developers? Is it even possible with the foundry?
Rhetorical arguments aside, I for one feel a little jipped, dispite NW's free to play aspect.
I am not a person that worships money. I loath it actually. That said, I have invested alot more than an arbitrary "founder package" which = $200 that some money worshiper could possibly excrete without so much as a grunt. The sad truth is $ has given preferential treatment to folks here, gotten them pre-release access, cookies, piles of bacon... and its lame as hell. Beta players ALL should have founder tags, since they have helped release the **** game. The fact remains they are founders regardless of tags, so whatever. In regards to this aspect, my most regreted point is the corporate progression philosophy here has given some "wealthy" few early access to the foundry so they can essentially corner the market during the time that market was at its most lucrative. Meanwhile those of us with content that will take a couple years or so to make are left with a far less effective system.
I can't really imagine I am surprised, since corporations are as exploitative of their customers as their forum trolls are of them, but still, a cave man can dream...
WTH is the "games industry" coming to when you can just buy your way into alpha. Where is the integrity? Is that finally up in a cash shop somewhere now? Please say it is, because I have a stockpile to offload if your trying to increase your supply.
I know this all sounds pretty "ranty", which is why I went back and added the "rant tag", but this is hog-tyingly frustrating.
If someone buys you a fruit basket, it is OK to give them the fast track to 60, but someone uses your mission editor to make a means for them to get some of that fruit basked, and you turn around and say, "whoa, that fruit was never intended for you" and remove their motivation? I am not talking about pathing exploits or anything in the "exploit" tier of discussion either, but rather ALL following Foundry content, since XP and loot rewards are not exactly the same as "normal" PWE created content rewards. So, I say again, aside from pure altruistic nature, or ego-maniacal compulsion, what incentive does a content creator have to publish with the foundry now?
For now at least, I presume that most of those who would have sought to utilize foundry missions are now going to be trimmed down to whose who will be playing them solely from the "cool story bro" factor.
/sigh
I guess I was just hoping for more.
Lets see, I'll list those hopes, born of "promises, sunshine and rainbow farts"... (Let me remind you now, please feel free to ignore me as you see fit, kind reader):
A comprehensive D&D based environment which we as a community could re-create and release the 40 or so years of original content that has accumulated at the base of Gygax's throne.
The same comprehensive environment to re-create the content I have spent the past 20 years developing.
A place to publish it to consumers where it would be appreciated and I could notice that appreciation for the "warm and fuzzy" feeling of verified accomplishment.
A medium where I could, as a content creator, gain worthy recognition that may serve to bolster my portfolio.
A place where I could socialize with with other like minded level, mission, character designers, and general Dungeon/Game masters.
So, all that said, I guess "most" of my hopes remains intact(assuming we don't weigh them individually) and I shouldn't be TOO "heart broken". I also suppose those of us that play for the story will still play for the story, and the foundry will be probably be perfectly viable "end-game", but I was really hoping to actually have the traffic inherent to a product open to a free volume of players that didn't have incentives to absolutely skip over the content I have been developing(and I DO mean end, considering that in computer software based multi-user RPG's, acquisition is the primary incentive for the broadest group of users... the foundry will be the LAST resort for players wishing to hang on to their vestments).
As loth as I am of the practice, I think I would have preferred this "balancing" to have been done as a "stealth nerf" considering the impact the patch note(who knows what was actually done?) its-self will have/is having with players that actually READ.
-_-
I would just like to reiterate right about now, that my comment has nothing to do with banning exploiters. Huzzah, I say! By all means, get rid of them as you, the ACTUAL developers and owners of the D&D License, deem necessary.
I would however like to remind vigilant use of due diligence and that moderators and administrators use EXTREME caution in their execution of will... as a company claimant to a Beta software implementation there is a not so fine line there in "utilization of exploit" when it is pertaining to TESTERS. And regardless of caution, I doubt there will not be a "lot" of people unjustly banned and or hurt by over zealous application of the force with a ban-hammerer (not to be confused with the ban-hammererioteer: one who rides those who wield ban-hammers riotously into the glorious corporate battlefields of red drenched green glory).
I just know from experience both off and on the court that it is much more often than not with great haste that the hammer is swung and that in that zeal the truly innocent are grouped in with those deserving of retribution.
I not only speak as a courtesan but also speak as a victim of these types affairs and a witness, and know as fact that with the volume of customers here, the chance for a plebe to plead a case is unreasonably low when compared to smaller communities.
Anyhew, enough on that for now, since in this case I have not bought myself a hammer nor affiliated myself with anyone worthy of notice.
-_-
In conclusion(Yup, time to wrap this up and throw it overboard), I think I will probably play my cards close to my chest regarding the creation of foundry content now that I am better apprised of the situation and remembering how legal beagle this business is. I don't know who it was that made the call to "renegotiate" with/dictate to us the terms of the promised foundry utility, and more importantly I don't want to know(though I can not un-guess. ;P), but despite my disappointment, I do wish mercy upon you and may you only ever be blamed for enthusiasm and hype building.
It's a shame really, I was really looking forward to introducing you all to a side of Abeir Toril you probably never imagined. Oh well, I guess that gives me license to stick to developing content in NW's near-scope, just don't expect any sweepingly original DnD content from me(which you weren't expecting and or wanting anyway... ;P).
/shrug , indeed
I should probably thank you for reminding me why I have been developing my content for 20 years and have not shared it with anyone without an NDA
Thanks!
Rant [OFF]
Hmm... I read all of this, you repeat yourself a lot. Honestly, if you work hard on yours and make it fun people will play it still. I intentionally look for the fun foundry missions. I have over a 8.8kgs so I could care less about most drops. I just want to experience other peoples areas.
^ Do you honestly think anybody is going to read that? How many chinese did you hire to build that ****in wall dude?
Even the conclusion is too long to read
0
inspector135711Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Perhaps reading with this in the background would be more appropriate. http://youtu.be/gH2efAcmBQM
;D
In reply to Darknight0354 I read the whole thread and put the notice that "I don't care if you don't"[sic] at the top for good reason.
:P
As for the length, I'm just "cold kick'n it here in the cut", buddy... /whatevzki.
By "in conclusion", I didn't so much mean conclude as its time for a sandwhich. Perhaps I should have suggested that at the top as well... Hmmm....
lol
Anyway, thanks for the reply, boss.
GL in your travels!
0
inspector135711Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I challenge you to quantify your claims!
Bwhahahah, just kidding, your 10k% right and its to weed out the weak!
xD
And I will still be making stuff, I don think the foundry will be immensly fun to use. As for when, well I would be repeating myself If I addressed that. Lets just say I will probably focus on fully geared lvl 60++ since it seems to me that is who our generous host is catering to.
0
kuronekkoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm not too clear what were people doing? From my experience with the game.... I did the foundry stuff because it was fun and rewarding. While on the other hand the "content" was hardly interesting and not so rewarding by this I mean progression seems to drag. This game doesn't bring a lot of more common mmo elements to the table to fill in the slower progression. (e.x. exploring a vast world and no running dungeons isn't the same or an adequate substitute) That being said nerfing the foundry to force other content is kind of a low blow seeing as the foundry is a major selling point of the game. I personally held off playing the game for a while so it could get the fresh launch issues fixed but, if this is the direction the game is going already I'm just going to have to move on already.
I saw a few foundry quests that seemed to advertise fast EXP gain, I avoided those ones since it's clear that was never the intention. Foundry is meant to give additional content to the game and so I have no issues with an EXP caps on foundry quests, seriously I saw one that was claiming to give 3 levels worth of EXP, I don't know if it was true or not but there is no way in my opinion that a foundry quest so be rewarding even half a levels worth of EXP unless the foundry quest is seriously long to justify that.
Is it in actuality a tool for them to essentially gain legal claim over intellectual properties wholesale, and in addition to that, get free content generated to help sustain their product when executives, board members and managers eventually decide they have employed this current team of employees long enough and start thinking in terms of "top heavy" so to justify their desire to lay off folks during "hard economic cycles" in order to escape their own culpability? Ugg... "enjoy it while it lasts", I guess.
I read the whole thing, but only have a comment on this point: Well, duh, of course it is. The user agreement clearly states that they get all the legal rights to do whatever the heck they please with the stuff we create with Foundry. At least they had the decency to state it clearly, it's neither fine print nor a ridiculously long wall of text, it's given us in a short and clear notice right as we first enter the Foundry.
Comments
It's an exploit, part of the TOS and EULA is that you won't use exploits. Pretty cut and dry too me.
Cryptic knew this would happen just not how big it would be, the fact that they've squashed this particular exploit within a week shows how hard they were watching the metrics relating to the Foundry in case these sorts of exploits took off.
I don't but I do know pretty much how it would read. And a partial list of things that they can deny you service for are hacks, abusing other players, Exploits and reverse engineering the game. I also know that part of the EULA and TOS is to report exploits when you see them. You know, basic stuff in every MMO EULA and TOS. Besides, if you went for a loan and didn't read the loan agreement in full do you say that you didn't read the loan agreement when the debt collectors show up to default on the loan?
Sure they could, we could have wound up with something as pathetic as the MA in CoX, oh wait, wasn't that rife with exploits and farming missions too.
Some people will spend more time figuring out how to get to level 60 ASAP than it would take too legitmately level to 60, that's just human nature. The only way they could have guaranteed no exploits was to make it worthless to play Foundry missions anyway.
Don't throw that out here, the players were fully aware of what they were doing and that what they were doing was wrong, there was mass bannings in CoX over similar things that made all the MMO newssites and this is even worse than that as they're designing the maps specifically with these things in mind.
You're not an investor you're a customer, you don't get an cash value ROI from the money you pay and have no right to dictate company policy, you do have the right to disagree with it, just not decide what it is.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
You mean, the person who started the thread in the first place?
I'm not the one being banned, so it looks like Cryptic is agreeing with the way I play, whereas your way.... Well, we all see where that is getting us now, don't we?
It's too bad a few bad apples had to ruin the fun for the rest of us, who did Foundry missions for FUN, because this is a GAME, after all
Did you miss the part where he points out that he's already leveled by doing all of the quests? Have YOU done all of the quests? Now, go make another character and do it all over again... how much fun is that? Some people like mindlessly grinding mobs, it's a lot more productive, usually, than running around from quest to quest.
It's not our fault the developers are absolute trash and can't make monster path reset its health. You can abuse this bug to farm bosses to this day find where and do it if you want. The pathing AI bug is not fixed and will not be fixed. They just shat all over foundry instead of fixing the actual bug.
They think like you do, like a stupid child.
But this game rewards questing, so why not do that?
Well, IMO, your thread isn't really all that constructive. It started as an "I told you so, ha ha ha..." You also found some extra enjoyment by creating a drama thread for people to rage in. In other words, you really did start a troll thread.
Rewards questing... how? Maybe every 10 armor pieces given by a quest was used by me. But in reality, no rewards were worth the time it took to follow the quest story and run back to turn it in. Now, knowing that, why would I want to do it on my other characters?
Oh you poor poor soul... there are no wipes. This "open beta" rolls right into their release...
no it wont
Again, it's best to know WTH you are talking about before hitting that post button. Clearly you missed this instruction
Of course it's an 'I told you so' thread!
I told people, in enclave chat, in my Guild, everywhere I could, to stop farming exploit foundry quests. They kept going, and now the Foundry is goign to take a huge hit becuase of them. If that doesn't deserve an 'I told you so', I don't know what does.....
What if I told you.
This open beta was really a soft launch.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
WOAH THERE KIDDO! I agree exploiters should be slapped in thar ***** face but you cant go around telling players how to play the game. It just come across as annoying.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
Just pointing out that you were indeed trolling the forums with this thread just like that guy was saying.
Am I glad to see exploits taken out of a game I enjoy?
Am I going to tell people to stop the next time I see an exploit?
Am I already telling TRs to stop deft striking onto the PvP spawn?
Am I already telling GWFs to stop using Mighty Leap to do the same thing?
Have I been telling my guild for a week that smoke bomb is gamebreakingly OP, while being gamebreaking at the same time?
I'll give you a hint, the answer to all of these questions is Yes.
baahh, meant to quote nepht
its not trivial when they can bypass all of the developers content in a few hours, and get to max level
The problem is that they'll eventually want to move onto a model like STO's foundry reward system where instead of a daily wrapper, you'll get AD based on the length of the quest, and they've just had to try and smash a massive exploit where people were gaining 10 million dilithium ore (Rough AD) in less than an hour. This has resulted in the removal of all the Dilithium and Dilithium Ore earned from this, people being banned from making foundry missions and could result in people being banned from the game altogether.
If they go soft on people exploiting the foundry for XP now, then they could find themselves without a leg to stand on when people are exploiting it for AD which can be transferred into Zen.
TLDR?
I don't care.
As someone explicitly interested in utilizing the foundry to build an audience, I find this whole issue overly ambiguous and disheartening. Can we get some definite figures in regards to what the now historical and present "as of patch" values are for the parameters with which rewards for the foundry quests/campaigns are handled? I certainly hope so, as if it remains one of the Colonels 7 spices, the foundry creator community will hang in the noose and suffocate before this merely remains a sad drama in an otherwise short life.
Are we to presume that people aren't to farm at all in the Cryptic staff created content?
Knowing how the seals work, I hardly think that is a hard question to answer definitively.
I honestly hoped and believed there was actual intent in the "claims" that there was to be no distinguishable difference between normal content and the foundry. Maybe I just interpreted the press releases wrong... If I did in-fact hear them right though, the patch notes today wholeheartedly crush my dream like a fiery ban-hammer colored meteor strike.
I suppose they are a company... IDK why I would believe anyone(corporations are people too... :P) with capital as their primary motive to do anything altruistic like create a tool that would allow the first rule of power to be infringed upon(which they apparantly havent done, so I'm ok, and thus now save from naivety).
So, does that make the foundry the antithesis of what I had hoped? Is it in actuality a tool for them to essentially gain legal claim over intellectual properties wholesale, and in addition to that, get free content generated to help sustain their product when executives, board members and managers eventually decide they have employed this current team of employees long enough and start thinking in terms of "top heavy" so to justify their desire to lay off folks during "hard economic cycles" in order to escape their own culpability? Ugg... "enjoy it while it lasts", I guess.
So, beyond that is it going to be worth the 1000 hours or more it will take to create an episodic serial campaign with content designed to rival the actual developers? Is it even possible with the foundry?
Rhetorical arguments aside, I for one feel a little jipped, dispite NW's free to play aspect.
I am not a person that worships money. I loath it actually. That said, I have invested alot more than an arbitrary "founder package" which = $200 that some money worshiper could possibly excrete without so much as a grunt. The sad truth is $ has given preferential treatment to folks here, gotten them pre-release access, cookies, piles of bacon... and its lame as hell. Beta players ALL should have founder tags, since they have helped release the **** game. The fact remains they are founders regardless of tags, so whatever. In regards to this aspect, my most regreted point is the corporate progression philosophy here has given some "wealthy" few early access to the foundry so they can essentially corner the market during the time that market was at its most lucrative. Meanwhile those of us with content that will take a couple years or so to make are left with a far less effective system.
I can't really imagine I am surprised, since corporations are as exploitative of their customers as their forum trolls are of them, but still, a cave man can dream...
WTH is the "games industry" coming to when you can just buy your way into alpha. Where is the integrity? Is that finally up in a cash shop somewhere now? Please say it is, because I have a stockpile to offload if your trying to increase your supply.
I know this all sounds pretty "ranty", which is why I went back and added the "rant tag", but this is hog-tyingly frustrating.
If someone buys you a fruit basket, it is OK to give them the fast track to 60, but someone uses your mission editor to make a means for them to get some of that fruit basked, and you turn around and say, "whoa, that fruit was never intended for you" and remove their motivation? I am not talking about pathing exploits or anything in the "exploit" tier of discussion either, but rather ALL following Foundry content, since XP and loot rewards are not exactly the same as "normal" PWE created content rewards. So, I say again, aside from pure altruistic nature, or ego-maniacal compulsion, what incentive does a content creator have to publish with the foundry now?
For now at least, I presume that most of those who would have sought to utilize foundry missions are now going to be trimmed down to whose who will be playing them solely from the "cool story bro" factor.
/sigh
I guess I was just hoping for more.
Lets see, I'll list those hopes, born of "promises, sunshine and rainbow farts"... (Let me remind you now, please feel free to ignore me as you see fit, kind reader):
A comprehensive D&D based environment which we as a community could re-create and release the 40 or so years of original content that has accumulated at the base of Gygax's throne.
The same comprehensive environment to re-create the content I have spent the past 20 years developing.
A place to publish it to consumers where it would be appreciated and I could notice that appreciation for the "warm and fuzzy" feeling of verified accomplishment.
A medium where I could, as a content creator, gain worthy recognition that may serve to bolster my portfolio.
A place where I could socialize with with other like minded level, mission, character designers, and general Dungeon/Game masters.
So, all that said, I guess "most" of my hopes remains intact(assuming we don't weigh them individually) and I shouldn't be TOO "heart broken". I also suppose those of us that play for the story will still play for the story, and the foundry will be probably be perfectly viable "end-game", but I was really hoping to actually have the traffic inherent to a product open to a free volume of players that didn't have incentives to absolutely skip over the content I have been developing(and I DO mean end, considering that in computer software based multi-user RPG's, acquisition is the primary incentive for the broadest group of users... the foundry will be the LAST resort for players wishing to hang on to their vestments).
As loth as I am of the practice, I think I would have preferred this "balancing" to have been done as a "stealth nerf" considering the impact the patch note(who knows what was actually done?) its-self will have/is having with players that actually READ.
-_-
I would just like to reiterate right about now, that my comment has nothing to do with banning exploiters. Huzzah, I say! By all means, get rid of them as you, the ACTUAL developers and owners of the D&D License, deem necessary.
I would however like to remind vigilant use of due diligence and that moderators and administrators use EXTREME caution in their execution of will... as a company claimant to a Beta software implementation there is a not so fine line there in "utilization of exploit" when it is pertaining to TESTERS. And regardless of caution, I doubt there will not be a "lot" of people unjustly banned and or hurt by over zealous application of the force with a ban-hammerer (not to be confused with the ban-hammererioteer: one who rides those who wield ban-hammers riotously into the glorious corporate battlefields of red drenched green glory).
I just know from experience both off and on the court that it is much more often than not with great haste that the hammer is swung and that in that zeal the truly innocent are grouped in with those deserving of retribution.
I not only speak as a courtesan but also speak as a victim of these types affairs and a witness, and know as fact that with the volume of customers here, the chance for a plebe to plead a case is unreasonably low when compared to smaller communities.
Anyhew, enough on that for now, since in this case I have not bought myself a hammer nor affiliated myself with anyone worthy of notice.
-_-
In conclusion(Yup, time to wrap this up and throw it overboard), I think I will probably play my cards close to my chest regarding the creation of foundry content now that I am better apprised of the situation and remembering how legal beagle this business is. I don't know who it was that made the call to "renegotiate" with/dictate to us the terms of the promised foundry utility, and more importantly I don't want to know(though I can not un-guess. ;P), but despite my disappointment, I do wish mercy upon you and may you only ever be blamed for enthusiasm and hype building.
It's a shame really, I was really looking forward to introducing you all to a side of Abeir Toril you probably never imagined. Oh well, I guess that gives me license to stick to developing content in NW's near-scope, just don't expect any sweepingly original DnD content from me(which you weren't expecting and or wanting anyway... ;P).
/shrug , indeed
I should probably thank you for reminding me why I have been developing my content for 20 years and have not shared it with anyone without an NDA
Thanks!
Rant [OFF]
All in all there's better ways to get to 60 than exp grind through foundry. I'll admit I got multiple characters high level by exploiting the foundry. They can ban me, that's fine. It's f2p and I can make a million more accounts. Just like I used the quest sharing system to rush levels as well. This is what happens when you have a shotty business model such as the one PWE has been using for years.
Hmm... I read all of this, you repeat yourself a lot. Honestly, if you work hard on yours and make it fun people will play it still. I intentionally look for the fun foundry missions. I have over a 8.8kgs so I could care less about most drops. I just want to experience other peoples areas.
http://youtu.be/gH2efAcmBQM
;D
In reply to Darknight0354 I read the whole thread and put the notice that "I don't care if you don't"[sic] at the top for good reason.
:P
As for the length, I'm just "cold kick'n it here in the cut", buddy... /whatevzki.
By "in conclusion", I didn't so much mean conclude as its time for a sandwhich. Perhaps I should have suggested that at the top as well... Hmmm....
lol
Anyway, thanks for the reply, boss.
GL in your travels!
Bwhahahah, just kidding, your 10k% right and its to weed out the weak!
xD
And I will still be making stuff, I don think the foundry will be immensly fun to use. As for when, well I would be repeating myself If I addressed that. Lets just say I will probably focus on fully geared lvl 60++ since it seems to me that is who our generous host is catering to.