Another example of a blatant cash grab, add up the cost of this for each slot of gear. Then consider in WoW you get access to everything like that $15 a month. I hate being so restricted in how I can play unless I'm willing to spend exorbitant amounts on things that should be free even in the F2P game (repecs, enchants etc)
You know it's open beta right? And most of Perfect World games stay in beta for months (I believe BoI was in beta for like 1 year). Support the game? Sure, give us a decent priced zen market and many people will gladly pay something to support the game. But not when a **** bag costs 10 euro, pets/mounts for 30-40 euro (really? it's like they send me some sort of action figure via UPS) and so on...
And again...I don't see why we should invest in an beta game. We support them more than enough by reporting bugs and helping them improve the game for free..
People that don't want to spend the money won't spend it whether it's cheap or expensive. While I agree with you to a certain degree, I don't think you need to grind a lot. Me and a couple of friends have been making millions of AD with selling items on the AH everyday.
We did what people hate and rushed to 60 and started farming the end game. This is what makes the millions.
This is pretty much how I feel about every argument people put forward in favor of cash shop things and telling others this game isn't p2w. Like come on the evidence is looking at you, licking your face, touching your hair, and charging you for it with a big smile on.
People that don't want to spend the money won't spend it whether it's cheap or expensive. While I agree with you to a certain degree, I don't think you need to grind a lot. Me and a couple of friends have been making millions of AD with selling items on the AH everyday.
We did what people hate and rushed to 60 and started farming the end game. This is what makes the millions.
What you don't seem to realise is these millions you are making on the AH are only because the market is way out of balance right now. This happens on launch with any MMO. Once more people get their chars 60 and start grinding end game those amazing profits you are seeing are going to start evaporating. You can't use that as justification because by the time alot of people get these items hardly any profit will be there to be made. Also the huge influx of founders astral is also effecting this. Both will not last forever.
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rakunenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 19Arc User
Okay, let me propose a way to look at this (and I think 1% is too low, by the way):
A week ago, the AD/Zen exchange rate was at 500:1, so you needed 500,000 AD to get $10 in Zen. As of right now, it has dipped below 400:1, so you only need 400,000 AD to get $10 in Zen. If other PWE games with the same system are an indicator, then we will eventually get to 100:1, in which case you only need 100k AD to get $10 in Zen. So, we would be at doing dailies for 4 days to get a ward. (This does not take into account AH sales and Foundry tips, and it does not consider that people who care about these enchants are more likely to get drops that can be sold at the AH).
That seems counter intuitive, surely AD are entering the system all the time (about 5-25k per active player per day) while most of the sinks are in Zen. I would have expected the value of AD to fall against zen not rise. Do you have any insight as to why the opposite is true?
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baburmisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
now thats a well thought argument nobody can argue with. If there were any people still undecided, talking things (evil things mind you), aka "this cash shop is too expensive", this post should change their mind.
After this post, i for one am willing to pay even $20 per enhance, and honestly, i cant believe people are so cheap and dont feel like paying a monthly fee of p2p game for one enhance. Enhance which you need many of.
Shame on you people, dont you ever stop to think how does pwe feel for you refusing to pay $10 for enchants?!? So show some mercy and buy it. regardless of its price.
just buy it
and as long as you do, devs will keep on spawning generic games with expensive cash shops. so its a win win situation.
Your calculations are a failure.
Take 1000 people, 90% of them will quit since they dont want to play HAMSTER with is P2W. 100 people left where 75% of them will be the paying people. So 75 out of 100 will buy it from cash shop, add to that the 25 of rest with 1% chance and no life, maybe 80 out of 100 will have that.
So your calculations are off by around 80000%, you were close :P
See the thing is, I really like the game. I just hate how everything you really have to pay for was so steathily covered up after paying $60 for it already.
So, to be good at PvP, it's not skill, but gear you need. Which begs the question, what does PvP do for me? It allows me to get better gear for PvP? Will players drop gear, to make it worth my time? Conversely, will I drop gear, making it a waste of time? Admittedly, I'm not very far into the game, I just started looking at it over the weekend, and haven't really invested a lot of time into it, but PvE wise, I'm getting through the quests I need to do with substandard gear, I'd guess, since elitists are already requiring specific "gear scores", haven't done enough research into it to know what that means yet, before they'll even let you into a group.
My solution is a simple one, I'll random pug groups where I have to have them. I'll just avoid PvP, since I don't see much point in it other than epeen swelling, and since I don't have a problem with my real peen, I don't have to be concerned about my epeen. If it becomes obvious to me that the game cannot be played w/out the CS, I'll just walk away. It's not that hard. The problem is, in other games that I've played where people think you have to have the absolute best enchants to play, I managed to play every bit as long, and to cap, or close, w/out having to stress on "I must have the best enchants, or I'm a fail player". In another MMO, I had a party leader threaten to kick me from an Elite run of a quest because they didn't think I had enough HP. I dropped group, then solo'd the quest with a hireling on Elite. Guess I had enough HP after all.
Guess the TL;DR version is: If people quit trying to pretend that you can't function w/out the absolute best gear, the CS prices won't matter. My baseline experience with the enchant system, admittedly lucky, was one attempt, one success. So I actually lucked out by rolling a 1.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
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angeloburton123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
Sup Robert?
Regarding what PvP does for you: You earn currency (honor) which you can change for equipment.
Regarding Gear Score: Better equipment with more +stats increases your gear score. You can view the score in your character sheet ("C").
The thing about the Gear Score is that at maximum level, access to Dungeons is based on the Gear Score of the party members.
If the Gear Score is not high enough, you can't enter certain Dungeons. That's why you see in [Zone] Chat things like "looking for Healer 6800+", because people want to do certain Dungeons that give certain loot.
Gear Score restriction is a double edged sword in my opinion. For one thing it's good because Endgame dungeons can be very tough and you want your party members to be able to "pull their weight", Gear Score ensures that they at least got the Stats. If they got the skill is another matter.
Bad Thing about Gear Score is that it locks you out from certain content and you have to basically "farm" a couple Dungeons over and over until you get the gear you need/want or at least enough Seals to get equipment to up your Gear Score.
God the fanboys really have absolutely zero objectivity don't they?
Yes you can buy it off the AH for some inflated cost, or pray every every day for a week for the CHANCE at one (really think about who asinine this one is, please.)
But the fact remains obvious to literally anyone not married to the game. The chance of success is ONE PERCENT. Just to force you to use a cash shop item. That's WRONG, and its not that you fail to understand that. It's that you willfully refuse to care. I like this game a lot too, but ****.
Cash shops should be there to enhance the experience. Not act as a requirement.
They could easily make money by simply selling cosmetics and services. Instead we get cheap money grab on top of money grab, and all because PWE is running the shots. there is earning money the respectful way, and then there is gouging. So far, Cryptic has an awesome game, actively being hindered by greedy marketers.
I think some of the fanboys have gotten so invested they are unwilling to see things in a reasonable because then they'd look bad for spending so much for comparitively little. I expected enchant gouging rubbish since that's standard in asian f2p but I thought Cryptic might of been able to tone that down just a bit, guess not. Oh well no pvp for me then, it's okay though I only jump in here occasionally since I'm playing TL2.
It takes 16 wards total to max that enchant. Which totals $160. Which translates to roughly 7 million AD. Which requires about 300 days of 24K/day farming. Or you can try your luck fusing without wards, will take millions of attempts for the average person to get it, millions of shards will be lost. Or you can pray for months and months.
Or you can realize that someone is seriously trying to rip you off and not bother with any of it.
Actually it takes 64 shards and 21 wards (64---->16 lesser
>4 normal
>1 greater) but like others have said, people are getting these wards through celestial coins and also sell on the AH.... current price on my server is about 180k astral diamonds (about 3.8million ad) and it's actually not as hard to farm AD as you seem to think it is... on a good day I can profit about 2 million ad
Quit exaggerating, sell one or two decent things on the AH you get from regular play, buy ward there too.
and 2 months down the road those epics only go for 1 or 2k AD x3 and wards are gonna shoot up to 100-200k thing about guys like you is that you assume the economy is going to stay as it is. We are already seeing prices dropping accross the board...how long before most people cant afford the wards? how long before getting AD to exchange for Zen isnt worth the time invested. This is the problem with this style of item shop ONCE the market stablizes... f2p players cant afford to do HAMSTER...and then are expected to drop 100's of dollars into it just to play it...
My biggest problem so far is that the published success rates aren't even accurate. Even the rate for lowly level 3 enchants is inaccurate: 90% has so far for me been more like 50%, and that's after a lot of fusions. The same issue exists in Champions and the mod fusion rates there as well.
They really want you to buy those wards, even early on.
For pve, as long as the encounters are not balanced based on the assumption that people will have the end game enchants, I don't see a problem.
Now for pvp, I think this is the wrong game to look for any type of satisfying pvp. We all know it's thrown in as an after thought. And we know people can destroy you with gear. So spend the money if you want to be a competitive (lol) pvper in Neverwinter. Otherwise, find a more balanced game.
That's just the unfortunately reality of the situation.
you get buy the wards on the AH for like 150k AD. problem?
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unicornjeffMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited June 2013
in my opinion, there is no reason to have the fusing in the game unless you are actually able to get better at it over time. that will also have the effect of slowing people down and keeping them in the game longer. also have a problem w the whole gear score thing. as it seems i am not able at this moment to get mine above 8255. with all purple gear except shirt and pants.
Spent 60 bucks on the game after i got to 60 but i think that im going to end up going back to ddo soon. I like the action in nw better, however I played ddo for almost 2yrs straight before i got bored and im already getting bored after a moth here. Hope the game gets better. but atm im even looking forward to checking out wildstar. Peace
I don't agree with the OP, the fusing chance for shards and enchants, especially the fact that you can lose material is not beyond stupid. It's a brilliant - but evil - scheme to make people pay, one way or another for something that, at high level enchants, will make your character substantially better.
If you want to compete (or complete) any future dungeons or compete (or dominate) in PvP you will need those enchants and for that you will need those wards and for that you will need to wait a very long time (if you are trying to get one from celestial coins) or farm a lot of AD (to buy them of the AH) or, which is the most convenient way, to buy them with Zen which means buy Zen for some hard cash.
However this brilliant scheme will also be the downfall of the game when enough people realize they are being ripped off big time.
I would like to hear the dev's opinion on whether these shards/enchantment are considered core gameplay or not because they have been so eager to show off how their game is free to play.
Stupidity at it's best LOL. 7 days for a CHANCE...and thus the mechanic and design is fine. /facepalm
I assume these things drop as I see them in the AH, so what is % chance you will actually get one from the 7 day celestial box? So far I have something like 6 preservation wards and all rank 4 or less runes from these boxes.
I would like to hear the dev's opinion on whether these shards/enchantment are considered core gameplay or not because they have been so eager to show off how their game is free to play.
I don't think Cryptic or Perfect World is making this game 'free to play' out of the goodness of their hearts. You can play for free, and that for me, is way better than a mandatory $15 a month.
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wildswannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Wards are for sale for AD, in game gold via player trading or in the cash shop they also come from those celestial coin 7 days of prayng packs. There's no shortage of them and a variety of ways to get them. Or you can sell the shards and buy already fused ones. I don't consider this pay to win at all sure it is pay for convienience and with no sub that's fine there's nothing wrong with game companies making money. There are different types of gamers some have a lot of time to invest think everything should be for them and some have little play time but more disposable income and then there are those that think everything should be free for them right now it's impossible to please everyone but at least we all have a choice.
I would like to hear the dev's opinion on whether these shards/enchantment are considered core gameplay or not because they have been so eager to show off how their game is free to play.
Haha free to play. good one. Jokes on those who believed that.
I don't think Cryptic or Perfect World is making this game 'free to play' out of the goodness of their hearts. You can play for free, and that for me, is way better than a mandatory $15 a month.
I wholeheartedly disagree. It would be much more satisfying paying a monthly fee, and earning the items through gameplay rather than just buying, or even worse gambling for them. Which is just plain stupid imho.
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kasuhariMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
PW game are all like this. The amount of money that is put into enchantment is just ridiculously over the top. You have no chance if you don't spend the cash, or you have to grind none stop 24/7 and even that will not get you there. Like other PW game example Forsaken World, people spend atleast anywhere from $1,000 and up to have the highest enchant possible. They are always doing this with their game. It is their highest selling cash shop pay to win.
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
You have a 1% chance of fusing shards.
Shards drop EVERY SINGLE BOSS in epic instances.
There are at least 3 bosses per epic instance.
Kill 4 bosses, and you have a 1% chance of getting an enchant.
Play the game long enough and you will get all the stuff you could ever want.
Or don't play the game, and cry all over the forums like a little ***** about not having all the stuff you want.
I don't think Cryptic or Perfect World is making this game 'free to play' out of the goodness of their hearts. You can play for free, and that for me, is way better than a mandatory $15 a month.
That does nothing to address what I asked. Keys and Chest aren't core gameplay so I'm fine with that. So are dyes, health stones, scrolls or having every single mount of companion.
Shards/Enchantments are however arguably part of core gameplay. Every single armor has a socket and if I can't even put a cheap version in the enhancement slot then I take issue.
So answer the question. Is it considered core gameplay or not?
Comments
People that don't want to spend the money won't spend it whether it's cheap or expensive. While I agree with you to a certain degree, I don't think you need to grind a lot. Me and a couple of friends have been making millions of AD with selling items on the AH everyday.
We did what people hate and rushed to 60 and started farming the end game. This is what makes the millions.
No-one is forcing you to play the game.
What you don't seem to realise is these millions you are making on the AH are only because the market is way out of balance right now. This happens on launch with any MMO. Once more people get their chars 60 and start grinding end game those amazing profits you are seeing are going to start evaporating. You can't use that as justification because by the time alot of people get these items hardly any profit will be there to be made. Also the huge influx of founders astral is also effecting this. Both will not last forever.
That seems counter intuitive, surely AD are entering the system all the time (about 5-25k per active player per day) while most of the sinks are in Zen. I would have expected the value of AD to fall against zen not rise. Do you have any insight as to why the opposite is true?
now thats a well thought argument nobody can argue with. If there were any people still undecided, talking things (evil things mind you), aka "this cash shop is too expensive", this post should change their mind.
After this post, i for one am willing to pay even $20 per enhance, and honestly, i cant believe people are so cheap and dont feel like paying a monthly fee of p2p game for one enhance. Enhance which you need many of.
Shame on you people, dont you ever stop to think how does pwe feel for you refusing to pay $10 for enchants?!? So show some mercy and buy it. regardless of its price.
just buy it
and as long as you do, devs will keep on spawning generic games with expensive cash shops. so its a win win situation.
and you criticize someone else's math....
See the thing is, I really like the game. I just hate how everything you really have to pay for was so steathily covered up after paying $60 for it already.
My solution is a simple one, I'll random pug groups where I have to have them. I'll just avoid PvP, since I don't see much point in it other than epeen swelling, and since I don't have a problem with my real peen, I don't have to be concerned about my epeen. If it becomes obvious to me that the game cannot be played w/out the CS, I'll just walk away. It's not that hard. The problem is, in other games that I've played where people think you have to have the absolute best enchants to play, I managed to play every bit as long, and to cap, or close, w/out having to stress on "I must have the best enchants, or I'm a fail player". In another MMO, I had a party leader threaten to kick me from an Elite run of a quest because they didn't think I had enough HP. I dropped group, then solo'd the quest with a hireling on Elite. Guess I had enough HP after all.
Guess the TL;DR version is: If people quit trying to pretend that you can't function w/out the absolute best gear, the CS prices won't matter. My baseline experience with the enchant system, admittedly lucky, was one attempt, one success. So I actually lucked out by rolling a 1.
Regarding what PvP does for you: You earn currency (honor) which you can change for equipment.
Regarding Gear Score: Better equipment with more +stats increases your gear score. You can view the score in your character sheet ("C").
The thing about the Gear Score is that at maximum level, access to Dungeons is based on the Gear Score of the party members.
If the Gear Score is not high enough, you can't enter certain Dungeons. That's why you see in [Zone] Chat things like "looking for Healer 6800+", because people want to do certain Dungeons that give certain loot.
Gear Score restriction is a double edged sword in my opinion. For one thing it's good because Endgame dungeons can be very tough and you want your party members to be able to "pull their weight", Gear Score ensures that they at least got the Stats. If they got the skill is another matter.
Bad Thing about Gear Score is that it locks you out from certain content and you have to basically "farm" a couple Dungeons over and over until you get the gear you need/want or at least enough Seals to get equipment to up your Gear Score.
I think some of the fanboys have gotten so invested they are unwilling to see things in a reasonable because then they'd look bad for spending so much for comparitively little. I expected enchant gouging rubbish since that's standard in asian f2p but I thought Cryptic might of been able to tone that down just a bit, guess not. Oh well no pvp for me then, it's okay though I only jump in here occasionally since I'm playing TL2.
Actually it takes 64 shards and 21 wards (64---->16 lesser
>4 normal
>1 greater) but like others have said, people are getting these wards through celestial coins and also sell on the AH.... current price on my server is about 180k astral diamonds (about 3.8million ad) and it's actually not as hard to farm AD as you seem to think it is... on a good day I can profit about 2 million ad
and 2 months down the road those epics only go for 1 or 2k AD x3 and wards are gonna shoot up to 100-200k thing about guys like you is that you assume the economy is going to stay as it is. We are already seeing prices dropping accross the board...how long before most people cant afford the wards? how long before getting AD to exchange for Zen isnt worth the time invested. This is the problem with this style of item shop ONCE the market stablizes... f2p players cant afford to do HAMSTER...and then are expected to drop 100's of dollars into it just to play it...
They really want you to buy those wards, even early on.
Now for pvp, I think this is the wrong game to look for any type of satisfying pvp. We all know it's thrown in as an after thought. And we know people can destroy you with gear. So spend the money if you want to be a competitive (lol) pvper in Neverwinter. Otherwise, find a more balanced game.
That's just the unfortunately reality of the situation.
Stupidity at it's best LOL. 7 days for a CHANCE...and thus the mechanic and design is fine. /facepalm
Why stop there? Change it to 100% chance of failure.
Spent 60 bucks on the game after i got to 60 but i think that im going to end up going back to ddo soon. I like the action in nw better, however I played ddo for almost 2yrs straight before i got bored and im already getting bored after a moth here. Hope the game gets better. but atm im even looking forward to checking out wildstar. Peace
If you want to compete (or complete) any future dungeons or compete (or dominate) in PvP you will need those enchants and for that you will need those wards and for that you will need to wait a very long time (if you are trying to get one from celestial coins) or farm a lot of AD (to buy them of the AH) or, which is the most convenient way, to buy them with Zen which means buy Zen for some hard cash.
However this brilliant scheme will also be the downfall of the game when enough people realize they are being ripped off big time.
I assume these things drop as I see them in the AH, so what is % chance you will actually get one from the 7 day celestial box? So far I have something like 6 preservation wards and all rank 4 or less runes from these boxes.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I don't think Cryptic or Perfect World is making this game 'free to play' out of the goodness of their hearts. You can play for free, and that for me, is way better than a mandatory $15 a month.
Haha free to play. good one. Jokes on those who believed that.
I wholeheartedly disagree. It would be much more satisfying paying a monthly fee, and earning the items through gameplay rather than just buying, or even worse gambling for them. Which is just plain stupid imho.
Shards drop EVERY SINGLE BOSS in epic instances.
There are at least 3 bosses per epic instance.
Kill 4 bosses, and you have a 1% chance of getting an enchant.
Play the game long enough and you will get all the stuff you could ever want.
Or don't play the game, and cry all over the forums like a little ***** about not having all the stuff you want.
Your choice.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
That does nothing to address what I asked. Keys and Chest aren't core gameplay so I'm fine with that. So are dyes, health stones, scrolls or having every single mount of companion.
Shards/Enchantments are however arguably part of core gameplay. Every single armor has a socket and if I can't even put a cheap version in the enhancement slot then I take issue.
So answer the question. Is it considered core gameplay or not?