Does Destroyer 31 point broken?I attacked mob for 30sec,but deternation not increase much,just about 1/10.And I just got one hit by monster,got half.This is joke?
I changed to this build tonight and am liking it so far. My weapon needs to be better before I can really see the potential as right now I am mainly just buffing my group and eating large groups alive. Definitely feels better with the added AoE damage/skills as opposed to the more single target with some extra targets build. I was mainly 3-4 on the list with another GWF and TW there.
Not bad so far, just ran a epic CT for fun, and topped the list over another GWF by 700k and we were both over the Rogue. I'll post again once I can get into epic pirate, should see bigger spread since there's tons more adds. The only problem I can see is more work on mouse hand could cause fatigue.
0
ekranoplaanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm still quite interested how the feat page actually looks. The first tier paragon feats in instigator don't seem all that obvious to me.
So is this build a better off tank build than sentinel im guessing? I have been playing cleric lately and It's just not that fun to me so I have started a GWF and my main goal is to help with mob control and aggro, so far I have heard that sentinel fails at this completely.
This build is fantastic for mob aggro and controlling the battlefield. There is no doubt that you can clean the battlefield up for the cleric and tank and let the single target guys stay focused on the big mobs. Clerics will love you keeping the mobs off them and allowing them to stay focused on what they want to do.
I will say as well. Wizards with their repel skills are your worst enemy haha. Nothing worse then controlling all the mobs and getting on unstoppable and smashing on them. And a wizard comes in and blasts them all over the place. It is the worst!
Not bad so far, just ran a epic CT for fun, and topped the list over another GWF by 700k and we were both over the Rogue. I'll post again once I can get into epic pirate, should see bigger spread since there's tons more adds. The only problem I can see is more work on mouse hand could cause fatigue.
You are right about more work on the mouse hand, to put out optimal damage you have to get use to the pace of working your at-wills. Glad you are testing things out.
Thank you for the feedback, I'm all for more players working on optimizing this build. This build really plays to a needed role in dungeons - an aoe monster that can keep the battlefield clear and under control.
I changed to this build tonight and am liking it so far. My weapon needs to be better before I can really see the potential as right now I am mainly just buffing my group and eating large groups alive. Definitely feels better with the added AoE damage/skills as opposed to the more single target with some extra targets build. I was mainly 3-4 on the list with another GWF and TW there.
Glad you are enjoying. As you were touching on this build scales off your gear massively. The better gear and more power and crit you have the more potent your capstone gets and the bigger damage your bleed and armor shreds do.
This is not a greedy dps build, you make your entire party stronger by shredding defences aoe style and having the ability at anytime to give everyone combat advantage.
I don't believe the GWF has anywhere near as strong of capstone as stacking 10% power 5 times. It's nice the destroyer builds unstoppable from damage, but it doesn't build it very fast and just going in and getting hit a couple times works so much better. At max stacks 50% power with no diminishing returns is untouchable for effectiveness in my opinion.
At my 5000 power that's 7500 stacked up. That is an extra 21 of those level 5 +120 power enchants. What other 1 point feat gives that much of a boost? And this just keeps going up and up as you get more power. It's amazing.
I build my GWF as a destroyer thinking this will work, but my oh my how disappointed I was when I got this skill. The determination building is SO SLOW. I am unsure whether it is a bug or it's just really really bad.
When I say slow I am meaning that hitting a dummy for 30 seconds will allow you to to get to the first level of Determination. So Even with the destroyer feat getting hit is the only reliable way to get determination.
EDIT: I also found myself running ahead of the group to grab some adds and start each fight with 100% determination. I am on voice chat with guildies on the runs so this works well (Although, this is suicide in pugs).
My problem with this game so far is respeccing costing money. Else I would be testing a lot of builds :P.
Your group is doing it right if they are letting you get ahead and start the fight. As an initiator you head in grab the aggro, the tank peels the biggest threat and you lay waste to everything that aren't elites with unstoppable and wicked strike from the determination you built during the initial pull.
I believe the initiator tree and the aoe focus of this build really does give this class a real defined role in group play. You are at your best when you are initiating combat and keeping the battlefield under control, letting the tank peel threats, letting the single target guys focus on their job and keeping aggro off your cleric.
Not bad so far, just ran a epic CT for fun, and topped the list over another GWF by 700k and we were both over the Rogue. I'll post again once I can get into epic pirate, should see bigger spread since there's tons more adds. The only problem I can see is more work on mouse hand could cause fatigue.
Overgeared CT runs don't do this build too much justice, especially a zerg style run. When you are doing runs that are correct difficulty to the group this build shines.
I'd like to see a screenshot of your Powers Page, to see where you ranked everything. I'm hitting places where I have to dump a point into something I'm not really interested in, and would rather have it go to something good that will benefit me rather than wasting it. Did you have to dump any power points when leveling?
I'd like to see a screenshot of your Powers Page, to see where you ranked everything. I'm hitting places where I have to dump a point into something I'm not really interested in, and would rather have it go to something good that will benefit me rather than wasting it. Did you have to dump any power points when leveling?
Jason, there are a lot of "wasted" so to speak powers along the way. Grab all the powers I was speaking about and I'd grab roar, sure strike, battle fury, and whatever else you might use situationally
I tried a destroyer build, the wicked strike with wms doesnt fit well without not so fast. That extra control provide you an amazing dps, but without its a worthless build. It was very boring to play a Destroyer build, so I will try yours and give you feedback asap. I just reach the gap of 8.4k GS. I also tried to max Constitution instead of agility, worth misstake ever ! Also I won't take Group Assault, even tho the dps you gain is great. But I would like to get more controle / crit for pvpso I will take Stunning Flourish instead. Thanks for the thread. Oh and another thing Unstopable recovory won't be my choice either.
I tried a destroyer build, the wicked strike with wms doesnt fit well without not so fast. That extra control provide you an amazing dps, but without its a worthless build. It was very boring to play a Destroyer build, so I will try yours and give you feedback asap. I just reach the gap of 8.4k GS. I also tried to max Constitution instead of agility, worth misstake ever ! Also I won't take Group Assault, even tho the dps you gain is great. But I would like to get more controle / crit for pvpso I will take Stunning Flourish instead. Thanks for the thread. Oh and another thing Unstopable recovory won't be my choice either.
Let me know how the adjustments you make measure up in pvp. I'd be interested to know.
I'm just gonna toss this out there but... theirs a big difference between someone just doing a dungeon, and someone who is trying to see how high they can get their damage.
I'm just gonna toss this out there but... theirs a big difference between someone just doing a dungeon, and someone who is trying to see how high they can get their damage.
Agreed, most dungeon runs are loot runs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
0
naeus91Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Thanks for posting this. Had I not bothered to do some research I would have picked the Destroyer tree but your guide has given me some serious pause. I really like the idea of filling that pseudo off-tank role and controlling the add packs but before I respec I have a question regarding the capstone...
I don't believe the GWF has anywhere near as strong of capstone as stacking 10% power 5 times. It's nice the destroyer builds unstoppable from damage, but it doesn't build it very fast and just going in and getting hit a couple times works so much better. At max stacks 50% power with no diminishing returns is untouchable for effectiveness in my opinion.
At my 5000 power that's 7500 stacked up. That is an extra 21 of those level 5 +120 power enchants. What other 1 point feat gives that much of a boost? And this just keeps going up and up as you get more power. It's amazing.
I agree with what you've said here: 50% power is a very strong capstone. But in the description it says the buff goes away when you are struck. If you are taking mob pack aggro and dpsing them plus relying on taking damage for determination building, then surely the uptime on this would be short and rare. In your experience what exactly is the uptime like? 50% power is great, but only if it's up long enough to take advantage of it.
My thoughts on the capstone is as follows, and I did touch on that somewhere in one of the posts:
The capstone is a bonus to an already awesome set of feats. As an initiator get up into the fray to start most fights. Ideally on basic pulls you want to be the first in and grab everything around you with not so fast. This way your rogues have combat advantage as they come in behind you from stealth and you can grab aggro ahead of the cleric. Your big bonus damage stacks won't be up more than a stack or two during the main trash part of the pulls. That is just fine though your wicked strike is a beast damage dealer during this part of the fight anyway.
As the trash begins thinning out it will be easier to get your max stacks up. By this time your not so fast should be back up and you can hit the bigger guys with that to give the rogues combat advantage again for 3 seconds. Your big cleaves should have most of the enemies armour shredded further increasing your parties dps.
As I said in another post your own damage potential against waves of enemies is probably unmatched. On top of that though, your not a greedy dps as you also help the rest of the team do more damage as well.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
0
naeus91Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Thanks for the reply, you've averted my concerns - at least enough for me to give this a go. I'll try it out and let you know how it goes. Again, thanks for posting this build. I'm hoping it's exactly what I'm looking for in my GWF and I would have never thought of it otherwise.
0
bearintonMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Question: Do you alternate WMS, Wicked Strike, WMS, Wicked Strike, WMS Wicked Strike etc. Or do you WMS, Wicked Strike x2, WMS? Which way do you find the most rewarding?
Hey Bearinton, you are just fine. You won't have a problem with all the power points you still have coming to fill in the powers you want. I'd suggest maxing out sure strike, not so fast, slam, ground stomp, destroyer, avalanche of steel is very good while levelling (never used at end game for me),roar, wicked strike, weapon master, weapon master strike, steel blitz, battle fury, roar, takedown, flourish, indomitable strike and crescendo.
I might have missed some but you'll always want indomitable and not so fast for sure. Some fights require different 3rd encounters rotated in. Most of the time I have flourish slotted but sometimes there is a lot of movement and battle fury to refill your stamina is really handy or ground stomp to get around quickly etc. Most of the time flourish is what I use though.
Question: Do you alternate WMS, Wicked Strike, WMS, Wicked Strike, WMS Wicked Strike etc. Or do you WMS, Wicked Strike x2, WMS? Which way do you find the most rewarding?
I tap WMS for the first swing of it and then wicked strike until after the ghost image has attacked from the rear. Once that is done I tap WMS again and repeat. During unstoppable a bit different, my first priority during unstoppable is to use all the encounter powers that aren't on cool down for maximum action point gain.
Once all my encounters are on cool down during unstoppable I tap WMS and crank out wicked strikes until unstoppable is over.
Now that I am in tier 2 epics and pretty well geared I haven't had a destroyer GWF to be honest anywhere close to the damage output of the instigator. I'm talking millions behind at the end.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
0
mantiddMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I am ExtinctioN on the Dragon server. I play a different style of GWF dps and have been slaughtering the epic dungeons as an initiator. I'd like to present an alternative way to play the GWF.
I will be editing and reorganizing this post when time permits. The core of the build is currently presented but I plan to add feat selection as well in the future.
MAJOR EDIT:
After really getting into dungeons and putting this build to test I'd like to add some critical thoughts.
Stat priority - Power, Crit, Recovery, Armour Pen - (at end game purple gear level)
I want to express how important recovery is to maximum dps and effectiveness. When you get geared up with recovery from your purple gear your action point gain gets pretty crazy. In longer battles against elites with trash you can have slam up 2 or 3 times its that fast of gains.
To really drive your action point gain, you want to hitting your encounters when unstoppable as much as possible. If you are going in first on most pulls you will have unstoppable every fight right at the start.
On a final note this build continues to crush, it's even more powerful in tier 2 then it was in tier 1 as the mobs are stronger with more hps.
END EDIT
Thank you to everyone I've spoken to in game. It's awesome hearing the success of the build. Thanks everyone that has tried the build out and provided feedback.
I'd also like to say, this build shouldn't be able to do single target damage of the destroyer, but the destroyer should not be able to touch the aoe output of this feat tree if played correctly. This is my opinion after many dungeon runs with destroyer GWF's.
I haven't experimented with running sure strike during more single target areas as I mostly pug and its not worth switching during the run. But a team could easily stop for a few seconds and let the initiator switch to single target sure strike for any important single target fights, which I have found to be few. In this scenario you won't build determination as quickly as the destroyer but you should have way more power then it would be possible for him to get.
At wills:
Weapon Master Strike - amazing debuff for buffed Wicked Strike hits from Initiator tree
Wicked Strike - buffed from Initiator tree to do stacking increased damage for each foe hit, wrecks enemies during Unstoppable
Using these 2 at-wills has a timing to maximize dps. When not on unstoppable you want to be tapping weapon master strike and then immediately hitting wicked strike. Your second AOE cleave of weapon master strike goes off while your wicked striking stacking both attacks debuffing your enemies and boosting dps significantly. Once your second WMS swing is complete you want to finish the swing your on with wicked strike and tap WMS again to reque up the free attack while you get back to wicked strike.
During unstoppable these two at-wills become <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with this build as you will see further down into the build how this all synergies with group play. Anyway, how you hit unstoppable with this set up is as follows. You want to tap your WMS, after tapping WMS hit your unstoppable and start going to town with your wicked strikes. With the unstoppable buff, your WMS debuff and your Initiator WS buff paired up with your other feats the screen will become a spray of damage numbers and is a thing of beauty.
Encounters:
Not So Fast - many uses for this ability use it at the correct time! What its used for: used as a boost to dps during downtime of unstoppable in aoe fights and to draw some agro to build your meter if required, used as a dps boost to gain combat advantage in single target fights increasing your entire parties damage output on bursting bosses when add waves aren't up, used for its proc to set up combat advantage for you to unload your encounters or unstoppable for max damage.
This is your utility knife encounter power and you have to decide when is the best time to pop it. With the initiator spec this ability gives combat advantage for the entire party for 3 seconds. With your initiator feats combat advantage gives you increased damage and crit chance. You can tap WMS then this encounter giving you the buff of crit and damage and the debuff of WMS to your at-wills then pop unstoppable and start wicked striking. Again the screen will be an explosion of damage numbers. When not clearing waves and focusing a tougher monster, pop this encounter before you unload your single target burst skills we will talk about next.
Indomitable Battle Strike - use it, love it. This encounter is insane. Feel free to blast this into a group of debuffed mobs for max damage or during combat advantage from Not So Fast against single target. This ability is amazing. Nothing else to say use it.
3rd encounter you can play with and there are lots of options. If you like pounding on bosses use flourish if you like aoeing all over the place use ground stomp as it also gives combat advantage and crit buff from your feats, you like building determination use roar, you like running all over the place use battle fury. The choice is yours on this one to complement your play style and interests. Many options all are good to make sure it synergies with your play style.
Dailys:
Slam - use with caution! You are an aggro magnet when you hit this but it's beast for damage. Use in trash waves and watch the numbers fly.
Second daily again optional to your play style. Slam will be used most of the time but having something like crescendo slotted if you need the single target burst doesn't hurt. Always buff yourself with not so fast before using crescendo to maximize the damage on it.
Class feature:
Weapon master - lll get into why below but crit is very important for this build and synergies with the spec.
Steel blitz - extra dps and with your aoe nature is a great class feature
I'm a half Orc, but you can see where the human feats would go.
Paragon:
5/5 - unstoppable recovery
5/5 - vicious advantage
5/5 - allied opportunity
5/5 - group assault
1/1 - instigators vengeance
Capstone feat - stacking 10% power up to 5 times for 50%. Sick feat. Don't worry about this buff in aoe waves just enjoy the stacks when you have them. During boss fights and less enemies on screen it's easier to keep this up. Use your single target skills when this is maxed and you are buffed with Not So Fast.
5/5 bleed from destroyer - your capstone increases your power 50% at full stacks. This bleeds enemies you crit based of your power. Nothing else to say. As a crit focused build this feat is awesome. When you're wicked striking through guys with the debuff from WMS rolling and unstoppable up while shredding their defences and bleeding them with every crit you are putting out major damage.
5/5 defence shred from sentinel - this makes your entire party stronger including you. The single target numbers flourish and indomitable will put up on a 45% defence shredded enemy with 50% increased power and buffed crit/damage from not so fast is pretty impressive for an aoe focused class. This skill is awesome. When levelling this was the first feat I took and then moved to initiator it's that good.
Let me know your thoughts, I have a blast with this build!!
Funny enough I've been using something similar already so great minds and all? Sure I am still experimenting and tweaking but I have to say that the crits are key. Getting those debuffs, coupled with the Weapon Master debuffs and bleeds just make you a monster. Almost always use Flourish and I specced into it for the added crit and all important stun. Which on some of those nastier adds can make the fights much easier.
Slam is by far the best AoE wave clearing dmg monster. Not to mention that if done early you can ensure aggro never goes on the healer which once again makes life easy.
The GWF is an amazing class, but STAPH telling people! Lol.
Funny enough I've been using something similar already so great minds and all? Sure I am still experimenting and tweaking but I have to say that the crits are key. Getting those debuffs, coupled with the Weapon Master debuffs and bleeds just make you a monster. Almost always use Flourish and I specced into it for the added crit and all important stun. Which on some of those nastier adds can make the fights much easier.
Slam is by far the best AoE wave clearing dmg monster. Not to mention that if done early you can ensure aggro never goes on the healer which once again makes life easy.
The GWF is an amazing class, but STAPH telling people! Lol.
Yes the GWF is a beast at what he does! The instigator is a boss at his job, I've speced destroyer and was underwhelmed after pounding waves as an instigator. This guy is bad ***! I'm all for more people crushing with the instigator.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
0
krewcifyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yes the GWF is a beast at what he does! The instigator is a boss at his job, I've speced destroyer and was underwhelmed after pounding waves as an instigator. This guy is bad ***! I'm all for more people crushing with the instigator.
There is so many people who speak so badly of this class. I think it would be very wise and helpful to the community, if you made a video! I think a lot of people would enjoy that, also take some of the flames away. I know I sure would enjoy it, as GWF will be my next class, I'd like to see it in action!
Comments
This build is fantastic for mob aggro and controlling the battlefield. There is no doubt that you can clean the battlefield up for the cleric and tank and let the single target guys stay focused on the big mobs. Clerics will love you keeping the mobs off them and allowing them to stay focused on what they want to do.
I will say as well. Wizards with their repel skills are your worst enemy haha. Nothing worse then controlling all the mobs and getting on unstoppable and smashing on them. And a wizard comes in and blasts them all over the place. It is the worst!
Extinction - GWF
You are right about more work on the mouse hand, to put out optimal damage you have to get use to the pace of working your at-wills. Glad you are testing things out.
Thank you for the feedback, I'm all for more players working on optimizing this build. This build really plays to a needed role in dungeons - an aoe monster that can keep the battlefield clear and under control.
Extinction - GWF
Glad you are enjoying. As you were touching on this build scales off your gear massively. The better gear and more power and crit you have the more potent your capstone gets and the bigger damage your bleed and armor shreds do.
This is not a greedy dps build, you make your entire party stronger by shredding defences aoe style and having the ability at anytime to give everyone combat advantage.
I don't believe the GWF has anywhere near as strong of capstone as stacking 10% power 5 times. It's nice the destroyer builds unstoppable from damage, but it doesn't build it very fast and just going in and getting hit a couple times works so much better. At max stacks 50% power with no diminishing returns is untouchable for effectiveness in my opinion.
At my 5000 power that's 7500 stacked up. That is an extra 21 of those level 5 +120 power enchants. What other 1 point feat gives that much of a boost? And this just keeps going up and up as you get more power. It's amazing.
Extinction - GWF
Your group is doing it right if they are letting you get ahead and start the fight. As an initiator you head in grab the aggro, the tank peels the biggest threat and you lay waste to everything that aren't elites with unstoppable and wicked strike from the determination you built during the initial pull.
I believe the initiator tree and the aoe focus of this build really does give this class a real defined role in group play. You are at your best when you are initiating combat and keeping the battlefield under control, letting the tank peel threats, letting the single target guys focus on their job and keeping aggro off your cleric.
Extinction - GWF
Overgeared CT runs don't do this build too much justice, especially a zerg style run. When you are doing runs that are correct difficulty to the group this build shines.
Extinction - GWF
Extinction - GWF
Jason, there are a lot of "wasted" so to speak powers along the way. Grab all the powers I was speaking about and I'd grab roar, sure strike, battle fury, and whatever else you might use situationally
Extinction - GWF
Let me know how the adjustments you make measure up in pvp. I'd be interested to know.
Extinction - GWF
Agreed, most dungeon runs are loot runs.
Extinction - GWF
I agree with what you've said here: 50% power is a very strong capstone. But in the description it says the buff goes away when you are struck. If you are taking mob pack aggro and dpsing them plus relying on taking damage for determination building, then surely the uptime on this would be short and rare. In your experience what exactly is the uptime like? 50% power is great, but only if it's up long enough to take advantage of it.
The capstone is a bonus to an already awesome set of feats. As an initiator get up into the fray to start most fights. Ideally on basic pulls you want to be the first in and grab everything around you with not so fast. This way your rogues have combat advantage as they come in behind you from stealth and you can grab aggro ahead of the cleric. Your big bonus damage stacks won't be up more than a stack or two during the main trash part of the pulls. That is just fine though your wicked strike is a beast damage dealer during this part of the fight anyway.
As the trash begins thinning out it will be easier to get your max stacks up. By this time your not so fast should be back up and you can hit the bigger guys with that to give the rogues combat advantage again for 3 seconds. Your big cleaves should have most of the enemies armour shredded further increasing your parties dps.
As I said in another post your own damage potential against waves of enemies is probably unmatched. On top of that though, your not a greedy dps as you also help the rest of the team do more damage as well.
Extinction - GWF
How screwed is my build ?
Hey Bearinton, you are just fine. You won't have a problem with all the power points you still have coming to fill in the powers you want. I'd suggest maxing out sure strike, not so fast, slam, ground stomp, destroyer, avalanche of steel is very good while levelling (never used at end game for me),roar, wicked strike, weapon master, weapon master strike, steel blitz, battle fury, roar, takedown, flourish, indomitable strike and crescendo.
I might have missed some but you'll always want indomitable and not so fast for sure. Some fights require different 3rd encounters rotated in. Most of the time I have flourish slotted but sometimes there is a lot of movement and battle fury to refill your stamina is really handy or ground stomp to get around quickly etc. Most of the time flourish is what I use though.
Extinction - GWF
I tap WMS for the first swing of it and then wicked strike until after the ghost image has attacked from the rear. Once that is done I tap WMS again and repeat. During unstoppable a bit different, my first priority during unstoppable is to use all the encounter powers that aren't on cool down for maximum action point gain.
Once all my encounters are on cool down during unstoppable I tap WMS and crank out wicked strikes until unstoppable is over.
Now that I am in tier 2 epics and pretty well geared I haven't had a destroyer GWF to be honest anywhere close to the damage output of the instigator. I'm talking millions behind at the end.
Extinction - GWF
Funny enough I've been using something similar already so great minds and all? Sure I am still experimenting and tweaking but I have to say that the crits are key. Getting those debuffs, coupled with the Weapon Master debuffs and bleeds just make you a monster. Almost always use Flourish and I specced into it for the added crit and all important stun. Which on some of those nastier adds can make the fights much easier.
Slam is by far the best AoE wave clearing dmg monster. Not to mention that if done early you can ensure aggro never goes on the healer which once again makes life easy.
The GWF is an amazing class, but STAPH telling people! Lol.
Yes the GWF is a beast at what he does! The instigator is a boss at his job, I've speced destroyer and was underwhelmed after pounding waves as an instigator. This guy is bad ***! I'm all for more people crushing with the instigator.
Extinction - GWF
There is so many people who speak so badly of this class. I think it would be very wise and helpful to the community, if you made a video! I think a lot of people would enjoy that, also take some of the flames away. I know I sure would enjoy it, as GWF will be my next class, I'd like to see it in action!
http://www.youtube.com/markmapa/ http://www.sinisterswarm.com/
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"