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ExtinctioN style GWF ... Initiator leave them all bloody
extinction777
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 185 Bounty Hunter
I am ExtinctioN on the Dragon server. I play a different style of GWF dps and have been slaughtering the epic dungeons as an initiator. I'd like to present an alternative way to play the GWF.
I will be editing and reorganizing this post when time permits. The core of the build is currently presented but I plan to add feat selection as well in the future.
MAJOR EDIT:
After really getting into dungeons and putting this build to test I'd like to add some critical thoughts.
Stat priority - Power, Crit, Recovery, Armour Pen - (at end game purple gear level)
I want to express how important recovery is to maximum dps and effectiveness. When you get geared up with recovery from your purple gear your action point gain gets pretty crazy. In longer battles against elites with trash you can have slam up 2 or 3 times its that fast of gains.
To really drive your action point gain, you want to hitting your encounters when unstoppable as much as possible. If you are going in first on most pulls you will have unstoppable every fight right at the start.
On a final note this build continues to crush, it's even more powerful in tier 2 then it was in tier 1 as the mobs are stronger with more hps.
END EDIT
Thank you to everyone I've spoken to in game. It's awesome hearing the success of the build. Thanks everyone that has tried the build out and provided feedback.
I'd also like to say, this build shouldn't be able to do single target damage of the destroyer, but the destroyer should not be able to touch the aoe output of this feat tree if played correctly. This is my opinion after many dungeon runs with destroyer GWF's.
I haven't experimented with running sure strike during more single target areas as I mostly pug and its not worth switching during the run. But a team could easily stop for a few seconds and let the initiator switch to single target sure strike for any important single target fights, which I have found to be few. In this scenario you won't build determination as quickly as the destroyer but you should have way more power then it would be possible for him to get.
At wills:
Weapon Master Strike - amazing debuff for buffed Wicked Strike hits from Initiator tree
Wicked Strike - buffed from Initiator tree to do stacking increased damage for each foe hit, wrecks enemies during Unstoppable
Using these 2 at-wills has a timing to maximize dps. When not on unstoppable you want to be tapping weapon master strike and then immediately hitting wicked strike. Your second AOE cleave of weapon master strike goes off while your wicked striking stacking both attacks debuffing your enemies and boosting dps significantly. Once your second WMS swing is complete you want to finish the swing your on with wicked strike and tap WMS again to reque up the free attack while you get back to wicked strike.
During unstoppable these two at-wills become <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with this build as you will see further down into the build how this all synergies with group play. Anyway, how you hit unstoppable with this set up is as follows. You want to tap your WMS, after tapping WMS hit your unstoppable and start going to town with your wicked strikes. With the unstoppable buff, your WMS debuff and your Initiator WS buff paired up with your other feats the screen will become a spray of damage numbers and is a thing of beauty.
Encounters:
Not So Fast - many uses for this ability use it at the correct time! What its used for: used as a boost to dps during downtime of unstoppable in aoe fights and to draw some agro to build your meter if required, used as a dps boost to gain combat advantage in single target fights increasing your entire parties damage output on bursting bosses when add waves aren't up, used for its proc to set up combat advantage for you to unload your encounters or unstoppable for max damage.
This is your utility knife encounter power and you have to decide when is the best time to pop it. With the initiator spec this ability gives combat advantage for the entire party for 3 seconds. With your initiator feats combat advantage gives you increased damage and crit chance. You can tap WMS then this encounter giving you the buff of crit and damage and the debuff of WMS to your at-wills then pop unstoppable and start wicked striking. Again the screen will be an explosion of damage numbers. When not clearing waves and focusing a tougher monster, pop this encounter before you unload your single target burst skills we will talk about next.
Indomitable Battle Strike - use it, love it. This encounter is insane. Feel free to blast this into a group of debuffed mobs for max damage or during combat advantage from Not So Fast against single target. This ability is amazing. Nothing else to say use it.
3rd encounter you can play with and there are lots of options. If you like pounding on bosses use flourish if you like aoeing all over the place use ground stomp as it also gives combat advantage and crit buff from your feats, you like building determination use roar, you like running all over the place use battle fury. The choice is yours on this one to complement your play style and interests. Many options all are good to make sure it synergies with your play style.
Dailys:
Slam - use with caution! You are an aggro magnet when you hit this but it's beast for damage. Use in trash waves and watch the numbers fly.
Second daily again optional to your play style. Slam will be used most of the time but having something like crescendo slotted if you need the single target burst doesn't hurt. Always buff yourself with not so fast before using crescendo to maximize the damage on it.
Class feature:
Weapon master - lll get into why below but crit is very important for this build and synergies with the spec.
Steel blitz - extra dps and with your aoe nature is a great class feature
Feats:
Heroic:
5/5 - unstoppable action
3/3 - disciple of strength
3/3 - endless assault
4/5 - steely defence
2/3 - weapon mastery
3/3 - devastating critical
I'm a half Orc, but you can see where the human feats would go.
Paragon:
5/5 - unstoppable recovery
5/5 - vicious advantage
5/5 - allied opportunity
5/5 - group assault
1/1 - instigators vengeance
Capstone feat - stacking 10% power up to 5 times for 50%. Sick feat. Don't worry about this buff in aoe waves just enjoy the stacks when you have them. During boss fights and less enemies on screen it's easier to keep this up. Use your single target skills when this is maxed and you are buffed with Not So Fast.
5/5 bleed from destroyer - your capstone increases your power 50% at full stacks. This bleeds enemies you crit based of your power. Nothing else to say. As a crit focused build this feat is awesome. When you're wicked striking through guys with the debuff from WMS rolling and unstoppable up while shredding their defences and bleeding them with every crit you are putting out major damage.
5/5 defence shred from sentinel - this makes your entire party stronger including you. The single target numbers flourish and indomitable will put up on a 45% defence shredded enemy with 50% increased power and buffed crit/damage from not so fast is pretty impressive for an aoe focused class. This skill is awesome. When levelling this was the first feat I took and then moved to initiator it's that good.
Let me know your thoughts, I have a blast with this build!!
I will be editing and reorganizing this post when time permits. The core of the build is currently presented but I plan to add feat selection as well in the future.
MAJOR EDIT:
After really getting into dungeons and putting this build to test I'd like to add some critical thoughts.
Stat priority - Power, Crit, Recovery, Armour Pen - (at end game purple gear level)
I want to express how important recovery is to maximum dps and effectiveness. When you get geared up with recovery from your purple gear your action point gain gets pretty crazy. In longer battles against elites with trash you can have slam up 2 or 3 times its that fast of gains.
To really drive your action point gain, you want to hitting your encounters when unstoppable as much as possible. If you are going in first on most pulls you will have unstoppable every fight right at the start.
On a final note this build continues to crush, it's even more powerful in tier 2 then it was in tier 1 as the mobs are stronger with more hps.
END EDIT
Thank you to everyone I've spoken to in game. It's awesome hearing the success of the build. Thanks everyone that has tried the build out and provided feedback.
I'd also like to say, this build shouldn't be able to do single target damage of the destroyer, but the destroyer should not be able to touch the aoe output of this feat tree if played correctly. This is my opinion after many dungeon runs with destroyer GWF's.
I haven't experimented with running sure strike during more single target areas as I mostly pug and its not worth switching during the run. But a team could easily stop for a few seconds and let the initiator switch to single target sure strike for any important single target fights, which I have found to be few. In this scenario you won't build determination as quickly as the destroyer but you should have way more power then it would be possible for him to get.
At wills:
Weapon Master Strike - amazing debuff for buffed Wicked Strike hits from Initiator tree
Wicked Strike - buffed from Initiator tree to do stacking increased damage for each foe hit, wrecks enemies during Unstoppable
Using these 2 at-wills has a timing to maximize dps. When not on unstoppable you want to be tapping weapon master strike and then immediately hitting wicked strike. Your second AOE cleave of weapon master strike goes off while your wicked striking stacking both attacks debuffing your enemies and boosting dps significantly. Once your second WMS swing is complete you want to finish the swing your on with wicked strike and tap WMS again to reque up the free attack while you get back to wicked strike.
During unstoppable these two at-wills become <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with this build as you will see further down into the build how this all synergies with group play. Anyway, how you hit unstoppable with this set up is as follows. You want to tap your WMS, after tapping WMS hit your unstoppable and start going to town with your wicked strikes. With the unstoppable buff, your WMS debuff and your Initiator WS buff paired up with your other feats the screen will become a spray of damage numbers and is a thing of beauty.
Encounters:
Not So Fast - many uses for this ability use it at the correct time! What its used for: used as a boost to dps during downtime of unstoppable in aoe fights and to draw some agro to build your meter if required, used as a dps boost to gain combat advantage in single target fights increasing your entire parties damage output on bursting bosses when add waves aren't up, used for its proc to set up combat advantage for you to unload your encounters or unstoppable for max damage.
This is your utility knife encounter power and you have to decide when is the best time to pop it. With the initiator spec this ability gives combat advantage for the entire party for 3 seconds. With your initiator feats combat advantage gives you increased damage and crit chance. You can tap WMS then this encounter giving you the buff of crit and damage and the debuff of WMS to your at-wills then pop unstoppable and start wicked striking. Again the screen will be an explosion of damage numbers. When not clearing waves and focusing a tougher monster, pop this encounter before you unload your single target burst skills we will talk about next.
Indomitable Battle Strike - use it, love it. This encounter is insane. Feel free to blast this into a group of debuffed mobs for max damage or during combat advantage from Not So Fast against single target. This ability is amazing. Nothing else to say use it.
3rd encounter you can play with and there are lots of options. If you like pounding on bosses use flourish if you like aoeing all over the place use ground stomp as it also gives combat advantage and crit buff from your feats, you like building determination use roar, you like running all over the place use battle fury. The choice is yours on this one to complement your play style and interests. Many options all are good to make sure it synergies with your play style.
Dailys:
Slam - use with caution! You are an aggro magnet when you hit this but it's beast for damage. Use in trash waves and watch the numbers fly.
Second daily again optional to your play style. Slam will be used most of the time but having something like crescendo slotted if you need the single target burst doesn't hurt. Always buff yourself with not so fast before using crescendo to maximize the damage on it.
Class feature:
Weapon master - lll get into why below but crit is very important for this build and synergies with the spec.
Steel blitz - extra dps and with your aoe nature is a great class feature
Feats:
Heroic:
5/5 - unstoppable action
3/3 - disciple of strength
3/3 - endless assault
4/5 - steely defence
2/3 - weapon mastery
3/3 - devastating critical
I'm a half Orc, but you can see where the human feats would go.
Paragon:
5/5 - unstoppable recovery
5/5 - vicious advantage
5/5 - allied opportunity
5/5 - group assault
1/1 - instigators vengeance
Capstone feat - stacking 10% power up to 5 times for 50%. Sick feat. Don't worry about this buff in aoe waves just enjoy the stacks when you have them. During boss fights and less enemies on screen it's easier to keep this up. Use your single target skills when this is maxed and you are buffed with Not So Fast.
5/5 bleed from destroyer - your capstone increases your power 50% at full stacks. This bleeds enemies you crit based of your power. Nothing else to say. As a crit focused build this feat is awesome. When you're wicked striking through guys with the debuff from WMS rolling and unstoppable up while shredding their defences and bleeding them with every crit you are putting out major damage.
5/5 defence shred from sentinel - this makes your entire party stronger including you. The single target numbers flourish and indomitable will put up on a 45% defence shredded enemy with 50% increased power and buffed crit/damage from not so fast is pretty impressive for an aoe focused class. This skill is awesome. When levelling this was the first feat I took and then moved to initiator it's that good.
Let me know your thoughts, I have a blast with this build!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Extinction - GWF
Extinction - GWF
Post edited by extinction777 on
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Comments
Thanks for the answers beforehand.
Recovery seems to be found on a lot of our gear and is nice to have as well for the action point gain and cool down reduction. I have never went out seeking it above other stats though.
Extinction - GWF
I think both Thorins and Kart's builds are great. It is cool to see such widely different builds do their job in different ways. I'd be very interested to have a destroyer or two try the build and give some comparisons and feedback after a thorough run through.
Extinction - GWF
Lemonade Stand
I for sure feel that GWF is useful in a group. We do great damage and this build really shine when things get chaotic. I am pretty sure the destroyer build cannot touch the damage output of this build in aoe situations as our wicked strike does 5% increased damage for each additional target hit as an initiator. There is virtually no time in epic runs where you are hitting just one enemy and most of the time there are minimum 3 enemies on screen and often many many more.
If there are 6 little trash mobs and a few elites and a boss or something along those lines your wicked strikes are hitting for like 50% increased damage to every single target. Hit them with not so fast and that increases again another 5% crit and damage and for 3 seconds you are hitting them all with combat advantage as well which ups the damage even further. Add in the debuff from WMS as well.
The more chaotic the better it is for this build. It's a lot of fun.
Extinction - GWF
Str and Dex is what I chose. Server is down right now, but my crit is over 3000 and sitting at about 40%. With Not so Fast up to 45% and full stacks of weapon master over 50%. I can't check exact numbers.
Extinction - GWF
i didnt buy slam the first time because the tooltip made it seem like utter trash (it had 1/5th the damage of avalanch spinning strike strike etc). but i read about it online so i respecced. it sends WAVES of this damage for a GOOD, LONG while
Good point, slam stays on for a long time and you aren't locked into an animation it pulses while you are free to use your other skills. Awesome daily power.
Extinction - GWF
not to mention with steel defenses your getting the slam proccing, the immunity to damage, and the ability to dish out normal DPS during the entire time and move around as you please.
slam + steel defenses are GODLIKE and could EASILY define the class when it comes to pvp or in fact pve off tanking
When I get done work today if I have time I will clean up the information and add feats.
Also as the other 60 GWF's will probably agree, there are points in the levelling curve that are down right awful and there is very little that you can do about it. You just have to endure the 20-30 I think was probably the worst.
Extinction - GWF
Thanks for the guide, I'll be sure to put it to use!
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
I would have liked to see how well I compared to you if throne of idris hadn't crashed, lol
Please let us know how it goes. Interested in seeing the perspective of someone who tried both. Servers up!
Edit:nvm down again
Lemonade Stand
Also, wont the single target damage be quite low with no single target at-will skill ?
Looking forward to try it.
I have no idea how often Steel Blitz proccs, but if you have than i would like to know how it compares to destroyer feat?
Pure single target damage I believe destroyer using sure strike at-will would be higher. What % of this game is single target though? In my opinion very little. During single target periods it's way easier to stack your capstone and be hitting at +%50 power which is pretty respectable during single target periods.
Also when the add waves come up and you are blasting wicked strikes into the big pack of guys around the elite or boss, wicked strike is heavily buffed from your talents and does hit the boss and the rest of the minions way harder then the destroyer would. +5% stacking damage for each additional target is very nice, if you manage to get stacks of your capstone it's even better. Clipping the wave with Not so Fast and buffing yourself even more with combat advantage from talents with further increased damage and crit makes you a beast at aoe damage output. You can also be a clerics best friend as you can chew up all the adds that spawn and jump on the cleric.
I'm not sure yet what the break point would be, but this build should scale massively as you gear up. The higher your power gets the more potent the capstone and bleeds become. I'm at around 5000 power right now with lots of upgrades still to get, with the capstone maxed that's around 7500 power. This will continue to scale more and more as your gear becomes better.
Extinction - GWF
Haven't played with this class feature but could be good. I think there is gear levels where different things will be optimal to drive dps for the build. With a capstone that directly buffs your power with no limits to the amount it buffs, the better your gear gets and the higher your power goes the more this build shines. 50% of 100 is 150 a 50 point gain, pretty meh - 50% of 7000 10500, a three and a half thousand point gain, that's huge!
Extinction - GWF
Def would have been fun! We will have to rip hopefully together soon. My goal isn't to say this build is THE way to play a GWF, far from that. I just want to share what I have seen do very well at its role, which for this build I'd say is wrecking waves of enemies.
I'm not sure, it could be possible even to swap out wicked strike for sure strike for areas on runs that are more single target heavy, but the damage wicked strike does on clusters of enemies can't be matched by the other trees. Of that I am confident.
Single target - destroyer with sure strike.
Aoe - insanely juiced up wicked strikes with initiator.
Extinction - GWF
I have not tried this type of build yet but isn't a lot of the GWF dps coming from managing unstoppable. I am not enjoying it much as a mechanic since I do not like to get hit. How do you cope with this?
The destroyer build might be more suited for you, it involves a feat that allows you to build determination from hitting things in addition to getting hit.
I'd say Sol is totally right. Destroyer might suit what you're looking for as it builds determination doing damage.
That being said I manage unstoppable by following in the tank and grabbing up the adds with the aoe focus of the build. In basic pulls as the tree implies initiate combat and exchange a few hits, unstoppable builds up very quickly and even the first bar of unstoppable is usually more then enough to clean up the trash and leave the big guys for the single target guys to mop up. Whether destroyer or initiator you will for sure get determination faster by taking some hits. Unstoppable reduces damage for a reason, I feel it's part of the intended role of the class to absorb some damage.
In my build I posted the 3rd encounter power as a play style choice if you feel the build isn't generating the determination you want, one of the skills that builds determination might also help out.
If you are in an overgeared zergfest style run it can be harder as there isn't much concern for mob placement and things die so fast that its hard to get much uptime in the fray.
Extinction - GWF
I build my GWF as a destroyer thinking this will work, but my oh my how disappointed I was when I got this skill. The determination building is SO SLOW. I am unsure whether it is a bug or it's just really really bad.
When I say slow I am meaning that hitting a dummy for 30 seconds will allow you to to get to the first level of Determination. So Even with the destroyer feat getting hit is the only reliable way to get determination.
EDIT: I also found myself running ahead of the group to grab some adds and start each fight with 100% determination. I am on voice chat with guildies on the runs so this works well (Although, this is suicide in pugs).
My problem with this game so far is respeccing costing money. Else I would be testing a lot of builds :P.
12 seconds. Slam has 12 separate pulses (10 if you haven't spent any points upgrading it). It does more damage to a single target than any other Daily Power. In AOE situations its damage becomes absurd.
I'll let ya know how it goes.