Okay so tell me where you buy seals? Not in the ah or zen store or any other vendor. And your wrong, Unicorn Seals gets the best gear. Do your research. And yes I have played the game and currently am. Read here and look at my title and search my foundry missions up in game : http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/devtracker.php?page=20 read what sominator says about head start.
Unicorn is not the best seals, that would be Drake.. The gear you buy with those said seals will give you a BoE item, which you can put on the AH.. Don't correct people unless you know your facts.
You're right, except about one thing. The more money they make from the cash shop, the more they will invest into, WHAT?!, the cash shop. Look at any other f2p game that has success with micro-transactions and tell me where most of the time goes into. Eq2, SWTOR, all prime examples.
LoL is f2p, they put out additional content. Sure they may do some skins but really? The fact you can actually earn cash shop stuff by playing makes this mmo much much better than the MMOs you mentioned.
I don't really understand how people being able to buy gear impacts you. You can still get this gear through running that dungeon right? If so, not sure what issue is.
Actually buying gear hurts PVP in MMO's. Suddenly at every level most people PVPing have top notch gear and are sodomizing your face with every hit. PVE wise it's not really our business if people buy their gear. People may complain about how it's unfair to those of us in real life who are poor, but I guarantee if you get a dungeon group and there is one of those heavily geared guys in it. Suddenly the run is so much easier. And he passes on all the gear. You will probably thank him.
And to the OP. Yes, you can buy gear with IRL money, you can do that in almost every other game aswell. In WoW all you need to do is buy gold, go the the AH and get the gear..
It's also not that hard (at the moment) to get AD, all you need to do is do dailies, participate in events and post stuff you find on the AH, this will net you a decent ammount of AD everyday. Enought to let you buy items of the ZEN market weekly even (please note, at this moment, since the system is player driven it can change quickly).
And now, to the lockbox, if you do everything I mentioned above you can easily get keys from the AH and open the boxes, or you can trade the AD for ZEN and buy them from the store. That's if you really want the content anyway, it's not really that super important, yes you can buy some gear from the trade bar vendor, and yes you can get some enchantments aswell, but you can also get that in other ways.
That's not entirely true. Lets look at STO. Sto is getting a massive free expansion soon that costs no Zen at all. Tor just got an expansion too and is getting an update at the end of april that adds not only a new race, but new features for free. Sure they put about half the money back into the shop, but the other half goes into content. That's how most games work. Half and Half. Except Champions. Champions never gets anything nice.
Tor didn't get an expansion, they got 1 planet that takes 3 hours to get through and cost $20, and $10 if you subscribe (so, really, $25 for that month) You could call it DLC if you REALLY wanted to. That update with the new race was supposed to be in the game a year ago, long before f2p was even a thing for swtor. That race has already been paid for with subscriber money prior to the f2p conversion, as was Makeb. Don't even get me started on SWTOR. Such an epic failure on massive levels of a game. And, as far as some of the 'free features' coming to SWTOR, one of them is the Reputation system,. which, requires you to purchase packs in their shop to take advantage of. Ya, great content.
Tor didn't get an expansion, they got 1 planet that takes 3 hours to get through and cost $20, and $10 if you subscribe (so, really, $25 for that month) You could call it DLC if you REALLY wanted to. That update with the new race was supposed to be in the game a year ago, long before f2p was even a thing for swtor. That race has already been paid for with subscriber money prior to the f2p conversion, as was Makeb. Don't even get me started on SWTOR. Such an epic failure on massive levels of a game.
The old republic is a massive example of F2P gone wrong. It is a horrible mess of a paygate. I love the base game but really.
I'm just saying, a lot of these f2p games invest a lot more heavily into their cash shops than they do actual content. To deny that is to be ignorant. Sure some f2p games still have content coming out, but that's not to say they are investing in content development more than what actually makes them money. It's a delicate balance that I think a lot of people are naive to.
Actually buying gear hurts PVP in MMO's. Suddenly at every level most people PVPing have top notch gear and are sodomizing your face with every hit. PVE wise it's not really our business if people buy their gear. People may complain about how it's unfair to those of us in real life who are poor, but I guarantee if you get a dungeon group and there is one of those heavily geared guys in it. Suddenly the run is so much easier. And he passes on all the gear. You will probably thank him.
So their power curve is steeper. It doesn't go any higher and you don't want pvp to be based solely off of player gear do you? Because that just signifies they've spent more time on the game so they "deserve" to win. I haven't done any pvp in this game but I prefer skill based pvp over gear based/time gated pvp.
I don't intend to buy gear with zen either. I'd rather have the fun of putting the time in and earning my gear because that is actually fun for me.
I'm just saying, a lot of these f2p games invest a lot more heavily into their cash shops than they do actual content. To deny that is to be ignorant. Sure some f2p games still have content coming out, but that's not to say they are investing in content development more than what actually makes them money. It's a delicate balance that I think a lot of people are naive to.
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, but maybe they need to make money to sustain the service. It is a business, they have employees and expenses and answer to share holders. They do the best with what they can/have.
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verylittleanaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
And to the OP. Yes, you can buy gear with IRL money, you can do that in almost every other game aswell. In WoW all you need to do is buy gold, go the the AH and get the gear..
Incorrect WoW was one of the only MMOs that had the best gear being BoP. Im not talkign about the good gear. I'm talking about the BEST. there should always be a gear tier that is the best and BoP only.
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ordainedoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
This is PWI, LOL You expected different? Have you ever played a PWI game before? This company is the WORST f2p company out there. Yes I know, fanboys and girls will defend them, and thats fine. Me personally, give me a sub and I'll gladly pay it. I'm not spending 50$ a month to try and keep up with someone else who dual wields credit cards. Sure I will play NWO, until my other Sub game is released. When PWI took over on NWO, I lost all interest as many others did.
As someone said earlier, F2P game tend to invest heavier in the cash shop then they do in actual content, and PWI is no exception if not worst then most. They'll add new content sure, like new jobs, races ect, and guess what? You'll have to pay 20$ to unlock each of those things.
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, but maybe they need to make money to sustain the service. It is a business, they have employees and expenses and answer to share holders. They do the best with what they can/have.
I agree with your 2nd statement, and I'm not disputing that they shouldn't invest into the cash shop, but the first is you just being completely ignorant. You're on drugs if you think these companies don't have more manpower developing ideas and content for their cash shops than they have people working on actual content. Seriously, you're smoking something.
The best f2p model I've seen to date is Grinding Gear Games' Path of Exile model. Micro-transaction content is developed along side new content, even Heroes of Newerth does a really good job not crossing that delicate line i alluded to earlier. I have the strongest feeling that this game is going to obliterate that line and habitually cross it, which, judging by what I've seen already, has already happened.
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Hmm, you should be able to destroy/discard the lockboxes if you want to, though
That seems like an huge oversight,
I think even in gw 2, you can destroy them if you so choose, it seems ridiculous not to be able to.
I will be reserving my opinion as to the 'everything costs ad' factor till I actually play the game,
but certainly the 'auction house costing only ad' issue seems 'off', somehow.
I'll certainly play the game with the intent to enjoy it,
but if the ad and cash shop stuff gets in the way of my enjoying the game, so much so, that I can't enjoy it anymore,
then I probably will find something else to enjoy playing.
Perhaps, Cryptic will have more of a say in this than PW for those things,
but we just don't know until the game's been out for a while, with some updates and then see how they handle them.
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ordainedoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The best f2p model I've seen to date is Grinding Gear Games' Path of Exile model. Micro-transaction content is developed along side new content, even Heroes of Newerth does a really good job not crossing that delicate line i alluded to earlier. I have the strongest feeling that this game is going to obliterate that line and habitually cross it, which, judging by what I've seen already, has already happened.
Yes, yes, and yes! PWI is far from GGG though. People say "Well they have jobs they need to make money to live and sustain the cost of supporting the servers" but fail to realize this isn't just doing that, it's like the oil companies. PWI is known for its cash shop greed. This has nothing to do with keeping things running. It's simply GREED.
Or maybe, I don't have unrealistic expectations. Can you play the game without spending any money? Will you be at a disadvantage if time isn't considered? You could say that LoL is the same because they allow players to buy champions with money instead of earned through playing. But it's still fair and balanced. You pay in time or money. Many f2p MMOs don't give you that option.
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verylittleanaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
The best f2p model I've seen to date is Grinding Gear Games' Path of Exile model. Micro-transaction content is developed along side new content, even Heroes of Newerth does a really good job not crossing that delicate line i alluded to earlier. I have the strongest feeling that this game is going to obliterate that line and habitually cross it, which, judging by what I've seen already, has already happened.
I agree 100%
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ambermajMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I'll agree with folks on one thing. The mere existence of the lockboxes do not bother me in the least. I do not buy keys so I sell them on the AH. We should be able to discard/destroy the lockboxes if we like. Call me paranoid if you like but I would hate to get to a day when no one buys them there and I am stuck with them in my inventory.
The best 2 systems for F2p I see is LoL which the whole game is free. The only meaningful thing in the game is earned only in game. I also like LotRO's system. You get the first pretty much 30 levels of content free. then each quest pack and other things are a certain amount of TP. I have spend a good balance of money on TP as well as earned it in-game not really grinding much other than the things that improve my character anyways. I own the whole game, Something cosmetic comes out. I can earn that in a few hours. It's widely accepted that it is the most successful F2P mmo. I also like GW2 system. I spent 60 on the game, its f2p after that. I spent the same amount of money on this game, but because I like the content more in this game I have to pay their ridiculous prices for cosmetics. I just wish they would have done a B2P instead of straight up f2p. Then maybe there wouldn't be so much hate for the cash shop.
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syklonis19Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2013
They have to make money somehow. I'm amazed at just how many people complain about wanting more free stuff in a free to play. They have to keep the game running somehow, and since you've made this thread it obviously means lockboxes were a good choice for it.
Would your rather they fill the cash shop with items no one actually needs or wants? So that no one would ever buy anything and the game would eventually close? Because nickel-and-diming here and there is what's going to keep this game afloat. It's not the dedicated players who won't give a second thought about dropping cash on this game but the ones who rather spend as least real money as possible that they need to convince to buy things.
They even made a way for dedicated players who don't have cash to earn Zen in-game. I think they are being more than generous; there are less than a handful of other games that I can think of to do this.
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morterictusgrinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited April 2013
Yeah the pay store is very sad. I won't be purchasing anything else from them until they become reasonable. They don't have to nickle and dime you to make money but they are doing it and it is abuse. Only way I know how to deal with that is by not paying for anything else. The game has a lot of potential but with this terrible strategy looming overhead is bothersome.
I totally get the concept of free to play. I understand that the money has to come from somewhere. Those lock boxes, pots, health stones, all that stuff is fine and I'll probably even buy some.
The OP, however, is right about one thing. If the best gear in the game is obtainable through any sneaky combination of RL transactions, then that needs to be changed. I don't care if it's, buy the seal then put it on the AH and someone buys it with diamonds, or buy the crafting ingredient with RL cash, or however. They should have some stuff in this game that is no drop or bop or whatever... not everything, just some stuff that is kept sacred.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned other effects of a game being labeled P2W. I, along with my group of friends, were very excited to try this game until I've seen the alluded cash shop no-no's implemented already. I would've gladly bought the box game for $60, but now that I see the direction of the game, my friends and I have pretty much decided to only play this casually and not invest any serious time/money into it. The fact of the matter is, whether the game truly is P2W or not, it has that stigma already and because of that stigma, the company will lose potential players and consequently, money. In many ways, doing this f2p model can easily, and as is the case here, I think, backfire on companies. Stigma is a powerful force ladies and gents and a lesson soon to be learned by Cryptic.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
The best part about Cryptic's games are that all content is free. I don't know if it is true for all Perfect World games. By content, I don't mean costumes, mounts, or companions. I mean missions, dungeons, and other activities in the game. It is surprising how many people have a problem with what content is. In other F2P games, you either have to subscribe or pay for access to raids. World of Warcraft and The Old Republic are notorious for confining content behind cash barriers. Everything that requires cash in Cryptic is completely optional. Then you have the fact that it is possible to get whatever you want on the C-Store through converting Astral Diamonds to Zen. Sure someone has to pay for the Zen, but people can play the game for free and get whatever they want.
As far as the lockbox goes, if you only want the mount and/or companion, then you can purchase it through the Auction House. I have the lockbox companion and I never opened a single lockbox.
Oh no !! a cash shop helps people in real life who are pro at real life and don't mind spending some RL money to advance their fake online toons.
a sub game is beneficial to people who have tons of free time in real life and can grind and grind and grind, leaving the pro real lifer at a disadvantage. Oh wait. no. this entices the pro real lifer to buy 3rd party items and in game money.
Well Said !!! This system is actually a fairer than in the old days when those of us working 6 days a week did not get the same value for our monthly subscriptions as those that could play all day long.
I see the problem. The QQ'ers are mad that the cash shop hurts their RL 3rd party income because those willing to pay RL money can now just give it to the gaming company instead. Gotcha. I understand now.
You can actually put the lockboxes on the auction house. I sold 2 of them yesterday for 1500 AD, which is kinda nice.
You can also buy the lockboxes for 200 AD in the store.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited April 2013
Well where in the world do you think they are going to get money? A company needs money to survive and where do you think a free to play game is going to get it?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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snarftasticMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
You know... all of the content in the game is COMPLETELY FREE. YOU DO NOT NEED TO PAY A CENT (except for early access if you really wanted it, which you clearly did) AT ALL. Now if you want bonuses, or to do something faster WHICH IS NOT MANDATORY NO ONE IS HOLDING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD you can go ahead and drop some extra disposable income if that makes you happy.
People can pay to win in ANY GAME, take power-leveling services or gold-selling services. Does it effect you? No. Maybe if this was a sandbox where anyone could kill anybody, okay... That could have some side effects. But it's not, play with your friends (if you have any), and just enjoy the **** game and stop nit-picking about every single thing that actually has zero effect on you
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
By implementing the AD for ZEN mechanic, PW has effectively made a workaround for the claims that this game is pay to win. Everything in the ZEN store is free - if you grind AD. So even though you need stuff from the zen store, its free if you really want it (and have no life at all).
this is only true if there is zen to be bought. right now there is none, as guardian and heroes of the north purchasers have the equivalent of 25 days and 83 days of daily 24k diamond refining.
ok lets go back to grade school for a second. with these prices most people are turned off from buying things. so say one person buys a mount at 40 dollars. that means they make 40 dollars. if they lower the price to say 25 and is still account bound, most people can justify that easier. i know i can. so then 3 people buy that at the price. that makes them 75. its not hard to figure out they would make more money lowering prices. More people buying. i didn't think it took a degree in marketing but apparently it does. why do you think Walmart is so successful
You're right, except about one thing. The more money they make from the cash shop, the more they will invest into, WHAT?!, the cash shop. Look at any other f2p game that has success with micro-transactions and tell me where most of the time goes into. Eq2, SWTOR, all prime examples.
Comments
Unicorn is not the best seals, that would be Drake.. The gear you buy with those said seals will give you a BoE item, which you can put on the AH.. Don't correct people unless you know your facts.
LoL is f2p, they put out additional content. Sure they may do some skins but really? The fact you can actually earn cash shop stuff by playing makes this mmo much much better than the MMOs you mentioned.
Actually buying gear hurts PVP in MMO's. Suddenly at every level most people PVPing have top notch gear and are sodomizing your face with every hit. PVE wise it's not really our business if people buy their gear. People may complain about how it's unfair to those of us in real life who are poor, but I guarantee if you get a dungeon group and there is one of those heavily geared guys in it. Suddenly the run is so much easier. And he passes on all the gear. You will probably thank him.
It's also not that hard (at the moment) to get AD, all you need to do is do dailies, participate in events and post stuff you find on the AH, this will net you a decent ammount of AD everyday. Enought to let you buy items of the ZEN market weekly even (please note, at this moment, since the system is player driven it can change quickly).
And now, to the lockbox, if you do everything I mentioned above you can easily get keys from the AH and open the boxes, or you can trade the AD for ZEN and buy them from the store. That's if you really want the content anyway, it's not really that super important, yes you can buy some gear from the trade bar vendor, and yes you can get some enchantments aswell, but you can also get that in other ways.
Tor didn't get an expansion, they got 1 planet that takes 3 hours to get through and cost $20, and $10 if you subscribe (so, really, $25 for that month) You could call it DLC if you REALLY wanted to. That update with the new race was supposed to be in the game a year ago, long before f2p was even a thing for swtor. That race has already been paid for with subscriber money prior to the f2p conversion, as was Makeb. Don't even get me started on SWTOR. Such an epic failure on massive levels of a game. And, as far as some of the 'free features' coming to SWTOR, one of them is the Reputation system,. which, requires you to purchase packs in their shop to take advantage of. Ya, great content.
The old republic is a massive example of F2P gone wrong. It is a horrible mess of a paygate. I love the base game but really.
So their power curve is steeper. It doesn't go any higher and you don't want pvp to be based solely off of player gear do you? Because that just signifies they've spent more time on the game so they "deserve" to win. I haven't done any pvp in this game but I prefer skill based pvp over gear based/time gated pvp.
I don't intend to buy gear with zen either. I'd rather have the fun of putting the time in and earning my gear because that is actually fun for me.
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, but maybe they need to make money to sustain the service. It is a business, they have employees and expenses and answer to share holders. They do the best with what they can/have.
Incorrect
As someone said earlier, F2P game tend to invest heavier in the cash shop then they do in actual content, and PWI is no exception if not worst then most. They'll add new content sure, like new jobs, races ect, and guess what? You'll have to pay 20$ to unlock each of those things.
I agree with your 2nd statement, and I'm not disputing that they shouldn't invest into the cash shop, but the first is you just being completely ignorant. You're on drugs if you think these companies don't have more manpower developing ideas and content for their cash shops than they have people working on actual content. Seriously, you're smoking something.
The best f2p model I've seen to date is Grinding Gear Games' Path of Exile model. Micro-transaction content is developed along side new content, even Heroes of Newerth does a really good job not crossing that delicate line i alluded to earlier. I have the strongest feeling that this game is going to obliterate that line and habitually cross it, which, judging by what I've seen already, has already happened.
That seems like an huge oversight,
I think even in gw 2, you can destroy them if you so choose, it seems ridiculous not to be able to.
I will be reserving my opinion as to the 'everything costs ad' factor till I actually play the game,
but certainly the 'auction house costing only ad' issue seems 'off', somehow.
I'll certainly play the game with the intent to enjoy it,
but if the ad and cash shop stuff gets in the way of my enjoying the game, so much so, that I can't enjoy it anymore,
then I probably will find something else to enjoy playing.
Perhaps, Cryptic will have more of a say in this than PW for those things,
but we just don't know until the game's been out for a while, with some updates and then see how they handle them.
Yes, yes, and yes! PWI is far from GGG though. People say "Well they have jobs they need to make money to live and sustain the cost of supporting the servers" but fail to realize this isn't just doing that, it's like the oil companies. PWI is known for its cash shop greed. This has nothing to do with keeping things running. It's simply GREED.
I agree 100%
Would your rather they fill the cash shop with items no one actually needs or wants? So that no one would ever buy anything and the game would eventually close? Because nickel-and-diming here and there is what's going to keep this game afloat. It's not the dedicated players who won't give a second thought about dropping cash on this game but the ones who rather spend as least real money as possible that they need to convince to buy things.
They even made a way for dedicated players who don't have cash to earn Zen in-game. I think they are being more than generous; there are less than a handful of other games that I can think of to do this.
The OP, however, is right about one thing. If the best gear in the game is obtainable through any sneaky combination of RL transactions, then that needs to be changed. I don't care if it's, buy the seal then put it on the AH and someone buys it with diamonds, or buy the crafting ingredient with RL cash, or however. They should have some stuff in this game that is no drop or bop or whatever... not everything, just some stuff that is kept sacred.
As far as the lockbox goes, if you only want the mount and/or companion, then you can purchase it through the Auction House. I have the lockbox companion and I never opened a single lockbox.
Very well said and enjoyable to read...
You can also buy the lockboxes for 200 AD in the store.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
People can pay to win in ANY GAME, take power-leveling services or gold-selling services. Does it effect you? No. Maybe if this was a sandbox where anyone could kill anybody, okay... That could have some side effects. But it's not, play with your friends (if you have any), and just enjoy the **** game and stop nit-picking about every single thing that actually has zero effect on you
this is only true if there is zen to be bought. right now there is none, as guardian and heroes of the north purchasers have the equivalent of 25 days and 83 days of daily 24k diamond refining.