EDIT: And yes, Cryptic going back on their word about having drow available for "free" at launch DOES hurt the game and their credibility--not because leeches feel entitled to stuff they won't pay for, but because Cryptic said something then went ahead with something completely different entirely.
Hence the reason for the politician language recently. Was it stupid that Cryptic phrased the wording on the packs wrong, oh hell ya they were GIANT DUMBASSES. But there is not much they can do about it now. Now they can either let everyone play Drow at the start and open themselves up to a potential class action lawsuit, or do what they are doing and avoid it. The sad thing is they will potentially lose A LOT less money doing it this way. It is very sad, but it is the truth of the frivolous lawsuit culture we live in today in the US.
Now if that is not the reason they changed it, they are giant dumbasses anyway.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hence the reason for the politician language recently. Was it stupid that Cryptic phrased the wording on the packs wrong, oh hell ya they were GIANT DUMBASSES. But there is not much they can do about it now. Now they can either let everyone play Drow at the start and open themselves up to a potential class action lawsuit, or do what they are doing and avoid it. The sad thing is they will potentially lose A LOT less money doing it this way. It is very sad, but it is the truth of the frivolous lawsuit culture we live in today in the US.
Now if that is not the reason they changed it, they are giant dumbasses anyway.
Well, this IS Perfect World we're talking about. They're usually pay to win... and instead they're trying to gate one of the most popular races behind a frelling $200 pay wall. This is the same company that thought $20 genderswapped character skins for Rusty Hearts would actually sell well. The sad fact is, I was very anxious to start into the game with some unique combos, like a Tiefling Priest, a Drow Great Weapon Fighter, maybe even a Dwarven Controlling Wizard. Sadly, this kind of nixes my two hand fantasies.
Edit: Also, this really hurts my trust in the company. They're not even out yet, and they kicked us in the rods like that? I guess I could say same ol' Cryptic HAMSTER...
Well, this IS Perfect World we're talking about. They're usually pay to win... and instead they're trying to gate one of the most popular races behind a frelling $200 pay wall.
I don't disagree that this is a possibility, but it is hardly a certainty either.
Personally, speaking as a Hero of the North purchaser who is entitled to play a Drow at release, I would rather see the race available for free to all players at release. I don't want it to be exclusive. Having more people jump into the game at launch and be happy with their character options is more valuable to me than some notion of me being "special" because I can play something that most of the others can't play.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited February 2013
Same. This really doesn't effect me that much since I've got the hero pack, and I'm probably grabbing the Guardian as well. But I'm perfectly fine with the vanilla Drow being available at launch for everyone. With the MenzoGade being exclusive to Heroes.
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lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
*utters a long string of profanities, flips a table and ends up having a fit of seizures on the floor before standing up nonchalantly like nothing happened and taking a deep calming breath*
...I'll start playing 60 days after launch.
EDIT/PS: HOW DO YOU EVEN LAUNCH A "D&D" GAME WITHOUT F@#*ING WIZARDS?!?
*goes back to work like nothing happened*
Read the FAQ more closely. Drow (the free race) is being withheld for 60 days for the Founder packages exclusivity.
RE: Classes
We've already confirmed the Guardian Fighter, Devoted Cleric, Great Weapon Fighter, and Trickster Rogue, but we plan to announce more soon.
And many devs has mentioned in interview the goal of having *five* classes at launch. They have announced 4 classes so far. There are LOTS of clues from the last beta session as to what the next unannounced Class (Wizard) will be. Granted the unannounced class (Wizard) may not be what everyone supposed. And I'm sure there is lots of speculation as to what the last unannounced class (Wizard) will be. I'm sure that Cryptic will be announcing what the last unannounced Class (Wizard) will be. I honestly have no idea (yeah right) what the last unannounced class (Wizard) will be.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited February 2013
The silly thing is that the control Wizard was the first announced of the class videos.
It's more the fact they're throwing in things ALREADY that you NEED to pay for 60 to 200 bucks for one race? I'd rather pay 60 bucks for a box price and forgot paying for classes/races. With this come to light, you can bet every class and race that's "free" will be released early for cash. The game turning into champions online already turned me off, this money grabbing tactics is turning me off even more. Maybe if they already had a good handful of classes or races in it'd be different.
You don't NEED to pay, that's just if you want to have it earlier.
You do realize this is a FREE game right? What you call a "money grabbing tactic" is what allows them to create this FREE game for people who won't spend a dime on it.
Don't want to pay for early access to a race? Fine, wait 60 days and play something else. Welcome to the world of F2P.
thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
You know you have a problem when entire Guilds (a driving force for games) pretty much can't play because the race their guild is based on won't exist unless they throw money at the devs. Marvel Heroes did it right. They have 4 exclusive skins in their $200 founders pack: Wolverine, Hulk, Spider Man, and Iron Man. Yet you can still earn all 4 characters normally, and get skins for them. The skins don't even do anything special, though Symbiote Spider Man does different taunts and effects when using skills.
I'm not expecting good decisions from a company that made you pay $10 for nerfed power sets in Champions, asking, only much later, $50 for an actual character build (note: I never bought either, and in fact quit Champions).
I'm sure Control Wizards will be in at launch** They announced them a long time ago, they've said over and over what the five classes at launch will be, and the Facebook page says they'll be in the next beta weekend**
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nikkalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
looks like ill be playing this 60 days after release lol
Most people I know who want to be drow won't be waiting. They're just not going to be playing at all. None of them want to play anything but a drow, and none of them want to start a game 2 months after launch.
You can say what you want about people so set on race that they'll not play a game ... but the real problem is the sudden change. It was stated before that the drow will be available at launch. A change like this means faith has been destroyed. And that lack of faith will prevent people from joining in later.
*utters a long string of profanities, flips a table and ends up having a fit of seizures on the floor before standing up nonchalantly like nothing happened and taking a deep calming breath*
...I'll start playing 60 days after launch.
EDIT/PS: HOW DO YOU EVEN LAUNCH A "D&D" GAME WITHOUT F@#*ING WIZARDS?!?
*goes back to work like nothing happened*
Read the FAQ more closely. Drow (the free race) is being withheld for 60 days for the Founder packages exclusivity.
Read my post more closely. At the time of my post I was already aware of that (plus my main is drow and I have no intention of spending $200 on a some tatts and a racial background). Hence, the table flipping and the reason I won't be playing till 60 days after launch.
Most people I know who want to be drow won't be waiting. They're just not going to be playing at all. None of them want to play anything but a drow, and none of them want to start a game 2 months after launch.
You can say what you want about people so set on race that they'll not play a game ... but the real problem is the sudden change. It was stated before that the drow will be available at launch. A change like this means faith has been destroyed. And that lack of faith will prevent people from joining in later.
Precisely. Call them (us) stupid all you want. Fact still remains that a lot of people that would have been here at launch won't be. And that won't be good for the game, or at the very least nowhere near as good as it could have been. The perception that these people are stupid won't change the fact that this will hurt how successful this game could have been at launch. And there's no guarantee that they'll come back after 60 days (you gotta strike while the iron is still hot and all).
Most people I know who want to be drow won't be waiting. They're just not going to be playing at all. None of them want to play anything but a drow, and none of them want to start a game 2 months after launch.
You can say what you want about people so set on race that they'll not play a game ... but the real problem is the sudden change. It was stated before that the drow will be available at launch. A change like this means faith has been destroyed. And that lack of faith will prevent people from joining in later.
Do you have a link or source for an official statement of drow being available to everyone at launch?
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nikkalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do you have a link or source for an official statement of drow being available to everyone at launch?
It was officially stated when the founder's packs first went on sale, and everyone freaked about drows only being available to people who paid $200. I'll look and see if I can find it.
It was officially stated when the founder's packs first went on sale, and everyone freaked about drows only being available to people who paid $200. I'll look and see if I can find it.
Just looked, all those topics have vanished.
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nikkalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hah, that would be why I am not finding them. The forums have changed since then, so I wasn't sure where to be looking. I'd been assuming I was just looking in the wrong places. lol
You can find an E3 video recorded in 2012 by raging nerds that says drow will be there at launch. still looking for more using google.
As per the original new users FAQ
"What Races and Classes are listed as released for Neverwinter Online?
As per the Neverwinter FAQ when possible, the listed races and classes for the initial release will be:
Races-- Human Half-Elf, Elf, Drow, Dwarf, Tiefling and Halfling is in the Official FAQ Races Tab and mentioned in this Raging Nerds E3 interview, around the 3:00 mark. ""
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
*sniffs* Me want ranger
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mintyfizMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I have been giving this some thought and i must admit i am a little puzzled by this move.
The only reason i can think of as to why they would do this is to add arbitrary value to the hero of the north pack. But i don't relay see it doing that to any great degree, in some ways it might actual damage the launch of the game.
The drow are a very popular race in DnD and i am sure lots of players like playing them. But i highly doubt that the lure of the drow will convince many more players than have already purchased or will purchase the hero pack to shell over $200 so they can have one at launch. This will most likely annoy many more players than it convinces to buy the hero pack. simple solution would be to have the drow as a day one race for everyone but give the renegade sub race more cosmetic options.
The morale of the story is if you want to add value to something you are selling, actually add value to it rather than giving everyone who didn't buy it the feeling that they are being ever so slightly screwed.
MMO games live and DIE on the quality of the game launch, the quality and frequency of updates but most of all on the good will of its playerbase, annoying them is never a good idea. While this will not be a deal breaker from most players it will annoy a large portion of them and i can tell you from experience that telling an avid drow player that they cant play a drow can lead to all sorts of badness (try it next time you DM i dare you).
Of course the cynical view of this would be that cryptic is deliberately churning the community into a frothing mass of internet rage so that when they change it they can say "we are listening to are players". But of course that is the cynical view of all this and would mean that cryptic's marketing department is run by a bond villain in a volcano base.
as stated in the FAQ the drow will only be available to the "founders pack" purchasers for at least 60 days.
as to weather this is just the Renegade sub race or the main drow race as well is unknown.
as for your question, it is little vague as all the packs (hero, guardian, starter) are headed under the section "founders pack" but only the hero pack has "founders pack" in the title. so if i had to take a guess i would say no, you would probably need to have the heroes pack to play a drow at launch.
Thats a deal breaker for me. Sorry guys but that is really horrendous customer service to pull a double take like that. The front page says Drow are a player race, therefore they shoudl remain a player race at launch for EVERYONE. The renegade should be for the Hero pack and that is what the wording leads you to believe.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
Ah yes, the "I love D&D, but if I can't play one race right away, I'm never playing this game" crowd. Welcome!
Usually cross-sections well with the "this isn't D&D, not even close and I know because I played Caves of Chaos once in 1981", crowd. AKA as the "D&D isn't about action or combat, it's a thinking man's game" crowd.
It's sixty days. You'll survive.
Or not, you can flip tables I guess and pretend this is the worst transgression since Pearl Harbor. Because you know, First World problems are so hard.
I have no sympathy for this. Sorry. None.
I'll be even more cynical, I wager many of the haters we'll see pile on, never had any intention of ever really financially supporting the game, or will actually come back and play when the game launches.
Look, don't play the game if you don't want to. I understand, I really do. But please, let's all stop pretending this is some massive violation worthy of tyrannical rage and fuming.
Or you know, crank up the nerd rage, and holler at everyone here how this is worse than Mussolini and kicking a puppy, because, 60 days is utterly outrageous and nobody should expect to have to wait 60 days for anything, especially if its free.
What you fail to understand is Drow was always one of the races for as long as Ive been following the game. I have no intentions of waiting 60 days to play the race I was expected to have at launch. My main was going to be a Drow based on information previously put out and to hold it back is wrong wrong wrong.
You know why this is wrong, I either fiddle around for 60 days playing the game and all of a sudden they release the race I wanted now I am forced to change mains, it is this important to me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
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mintyfizMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Come on people, some of you really need to get off of the entitled list. I could go off on a long speel about many things but that won't change peoples thoughts that they have been somehow misled and deceived about a free to play game.
Listen, this game is going to be alot of fun. Whether you play a halfling or half orc it will be fun. Why is everybody in such a hurry to be a Drow? You already know that it will be the most popular race especially if Guardians get it as well. (Which seems VERY fair to me)
If your favorite race (the race you wanted to roll as your MAIN) was denied to you for 2 months I would think you'd be pretty **** irritated. It's a legit complaint. The only way to get a drow at launch that we know of is getting the insanely expensive Hero pack and MAYBE the guardian pack. That's pretty messed up imho.
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tronc8463Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
i dont want to upset you but you may want to look at the extra items in the hero pack...
"dungeon master unlock
Start creating your own quests in The Foundry immediately."
no idea what that means for the rest of us, but well.../sigh
Foundry requires level 15 to unlock it unless you're a Hero of the North.
So 2-4hours game play at current rate of exp gain.
I feel your pain Zylaxx. I wanted to play a Paladin but unfortunately they haven't even been eluded too. Luckily the Guardian Fighter is similar to the way I wanted to play my Paladin.
Comments
Hence the reason for the politician language recently. Was it stupid that Cryptic phrased the wording on the packs wrong, oh hell ya they were GIANT DUMBASSES. But there is not much they can do about it now. Now they can either let everyone play Drow at the start and open themselves up to a potential class action lawsuit, or do what they are doing and avoid it. The sad thing is they will potentially lose A LOT less money doing it this way. It is very sad, but it is the truth of the frivolous lawsuit culture we live in today in the US.
Now if that is not the reason they changed it, they are giant dumbasses anyway.
Well, this IS Perfect World we're talking about. They're usually pay to win... and instead they're trying to gate one of the most popular races behind a frelling $200 pay wall. This is the same company that thought $20 genderswapped character skins for Rusty Hearts would actually sell well. The sad fact is, I was very anxious to start into the game with some unique combos, like a Tiefling Priest, a Drow Great Weapon Fighter, maybe even a Dwarven Controlling Wizard. Sadly, this kind of nixes my two hand fantasies.
Edit: Also, this really hurts my trust in the company. They're not even out yet, and they kicked us in the rods like that? I guess I could say same ol' Cryptic HAMSTER...
I don't disagree that this is a possibility, but it is hardly a certainty either.
Read the FAQ more closely. Drow (the free race) is being withheld for 60 days for the Founder packages exclusivity.
RE: Classes
And many devs has mentioned in interview the goal of having *five* classes at launch. They have announced 4 classes so far. There are LOTS of clues from the last beta session as to what the next unannounced Class (Wizard) will be. Granted the unannounced class (Wizard) may not be what everyone supposed. And I'm sure there is lots of speculation as to what the last unannounced class (Wizard) will be. I'm sure that Cryptic will be announcing what the last unannounced Class (Wizard) will be. I honestly have no idea (yeah right) what the last unannounced class (Wizard) will be.
You don't NEED to pay, that's just if you want to have it earlier.
You do realize this is a FREE game right? What you call a "money grabbing tactic" is what allows them to create this FREE game for people who won't spend a dime on it.
Don't want to pay for early access to a race? Fine, wait 60 days and play something else. Welcome to the world of F2P.
Yeah this is not good for me or my guild.
Seven Against Thay: An RP-Focused Guild for all Races and Classes
I'm not expecting good decisions from a company that made you pay $10 for nerfed power sets in Champions, asking, only much later, $50 for an actual character build (note: I never bought either, and in fact quit Champions).
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?62081-Clarification-about-Drow-in-Hero-of-the-North-Founder-s-Packs
Most people I know who want to be drow won't be waiting. They're just not going to be playing at all. None of them want to play anything but a drow, and none of them want to start a game 2 months after launch.
You can say what you want about people so set on race that they'll not play a game ... but the real problem is the sudden change. It was stated before that the drow will be available at launch. A change like this means faith has been destroyed. And that lack of faith will prevent people from joining in later.
Read my post more closely. At the time of my post I was already aware of that (plus my main is drow and I have no intention of spending $200 on a some tatts and a racial background). Hence, the table flipping and the reason I won't be playing till 60 days after launch.
EDIT:
Precisely. Call them (us) stupid all you want. Fact still remains that a lot of people that would have been here at launch won't be. And that won't be good for the game, or at the very least nowhere near as good as it could have been. The perception that these people are stupid won't change the fact that this will hurt how successful this game could have been at launch. And there's no guarantee that they'll come back after 60 days (you gotta strike while the iron is still hot and all).
Do you have a link or source for an official statement of drow being available to everyone at launch?
It was officially stated when the founder's packs first went on sale, and everyone freaked about drows only being available to people who paid $200. I'll look and see if I can find it.
Just looked, all those topics have vanished.
Hah, that would be why I am not finding them. The forums have changed since then, so I wasn't sure where to be looking. I'd been assuming I was just looking in the wrong places. lol
As per the original new users FAQ
"What Races and Classes are listed as released for Neverwinter Online?
As per the Neverwinter FAQ when possible, the listed races and classes for the initial release will be:
Races-- Human Half-Elf, Elf, Drow, Dwarf, Tiefling and Halfling is in the Official FAQ Races Tab and mentioned in this Raging Nerds E3 interview, around the 3:00 mark. ""
The only reason i can think of as to why they would do this is to add arbitrary value to the hero of the north pack. But i don't relay see it doing that to any great degree, in some ways it might actual damage the launch of the game.
The drow are a very popular race in DnD and i am sure lots of players like playing them. But i highly doubt that the lure of the drow will convince many more players than have already purchased or will purchase the hero pack to shell over $200 so they can have one at launch. This will most likely annoy many more players than it convinces to buy the hero pack. simple solution would be to have the drow as a day one race for everyone but give the renegade sub race more cosmetic options.
The morale of the story is if you want to add value to something you are selling, actually add value to it rather than giving everyone who didn't buy it the feeling that they are being ever so slightly screwed.
MMO games live and DIE on the quality of the game launch, the quality and frequency of updates but most of all on the good will of its playerbase, annoying them is never a good idea. While this will not be a deal breaker from most players it will annoy a large portion of them and i can tell you from experience that telling an avid drow player that they cant play a drow can lead to all sorts of badness (try it next time you DM i dare you).
Of course the cynical view of this would be that cryptic is deliberately churning the community into a frothing mass of internet rage so that when they change it they can say "we are listening to are players". But of course that is the cynical view of all this and would mean that cryptic's marketing department is run by a bond villain in a volcano base.
Thats a deal breaker for me. Sorry guys but that is really horrendous customer service to pull a double take like that. The front page says Drow are a player race, therefore they shoudl remain a player race at launch for EVERYONE. The renegade should be for the Hero pack and that is what the wording leads you to believe.
Character is what a man is in the dark
Character is what a man is in the dark
What you fail to understand is Drow was always one of the races for as long as Ive been following the game. I have no intentions of waiting 60 days to play the race I was expected to have at launch. My main was going to be a Drow based on information previously put out and to hold it back is wrong wrong wrong.
You know why this is wrong, I either fiddle around for 60 days playing the game and all of a sudden they release the race I wanted now I am forced to change mains, it is this important to me.
Character is what a man is in the dark
i dont want to upset you but you may want to look at the extra items in the hero pack...
"dungeon master unlock
Start creating your own quests in The Foundry immediately."
no idea what that means for the rest of us, but well.../sigh
If your favorite race (the race you wanted to roll as your MAIN) was denied to you for 2 months I would think you'd be pretty **** irritated. It's a legit complaint. The only way to get a drow at launch that we know of is getting the insanely expensive Hero pack and MAYBE the guardian pack. That's pretty messed up imho.
Foundry requires level 15 to unlock it unless you're a Hero of the North.
So 2-4hours game play at current rate of exp gain.
I feel your pain Zylaxx. I wanted to play a Paladin but unfortunately they haven't even been eluded too. Luckily the Guardian Fighter is similar to the way I wanted to play my Paladin.