"run by and tap a button and pick up immediately" if we're going to have collectibles nodes at all.
Ugh, there's nothing I detest more than this. If I'm going to be bothered to click on something, I want it to be an activity, not a distraction. I'd much rather see something more like STO's ingredient collection system.
run by and tap a button and pick up immediately" if we're going to have collectibles nodes at all.
Talk about boring, no fun, rote, repeatathon, grindfest. Sounds like the ingredients for a sleep potion. Action based? yes that's obvious, but without available options for customization for the foundry is asking for a 4 year project to fizzle instead of explode in the gaming world. Tons of ADD minions might object of course, but this is D&D based. I'm hoping for both and good implementation.
There are other options than the mini game. There is a short gauntlet, sub quest, hidden glade, undiscovered cavern, mist covered tower, enchanted isle and Rapunzel waiting, silently texting her plight...;)
In a typical D&D game, isn't your character's skills dependent on the numbers rather than a mini-game? I think it would be a blast to have even just a quick time event for disarming or something, but it goes against basic D&D mechanics. Purely hypothetically, let's say you make a rogue. You've played one before and know how to play all the mini-games associated with the rogue's class, so you can opt to max out your character, putting all points into everything EXCEPT disarming/unlocking/mini-game-based skills. You might have a 2 in those skills, but you can pull it off without fail because it would be completely player skill dependent.
Hypothetically again, say a person new to rogue wants to "roleplay" that he is great at disarming/unlocking. He would have to sacrifice all those points to the relevant skills, lowering his non-mini-game abilities.
I don't claim to know how the points system will work, but this is just a guess based on my pnp experiences. If you convert some character skills over to player twitch skills, the need to specialize in those areas becomes irrelevant (with enough practice from the player). You might even have a wizard able to do a better job than your rogue at his own game.
If they find a solution to this, though, I'd still love to be able to interact more with my skills in real time while playing.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
The solution in the Elder Scrolls games was pretty simplistic - not that this is the best example of a lock-picking minigame, I personally liked Thief 3 better than a thief in any ES game. But in ES, the higher your lockpick skill, the more punishment your lockpicks could take before breaking. Player skill with the minigame could go a long ways, but not all the way - trying to pick the heaviest locks without any skills in lockpicking would just result in instantly breaking your picks.
That's true, I had forgotten about that. I guess quicktime events could get more screentime with higher scores, allowing more time to complete something or input more complex button combinations (like the bards song thing they were talking about).
Still, things like stealth and battle strategy is based on player skill rather than your character's INT (unless you're truly roleplaying your character's INT).
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ugh, there's nothing I detest more than this. If I'm going to be bothered to click on something, I want it to be an activity, not a distraction. I'd much rather see something more like STO's ingredient collection system.
I'm not familiar with STO's system. Can you describe it?
run by and tap a button and pick up immediately" if we're going to have collectibles nodes at all.
Talk about boring, no fun, rote, repeatathon, grindfest. Sounds like the ingredients for a sleep potion.
So what alternative is more fun, not rote, not "repeatathon" and not a grindfest? Because the only other sort of collectibles nodes I've seen involve sitting there while your character does an animation for 5 seconds. How would that be better in any way?
My preference would be to not have tons of little collectibles from nodes to gather, but if we're going to have them, at least make picking them up as painless as possible.
Tons of ADD minions might object of course, but this is D&D based. I'm hoping for both and good implementation.
Seriously, what form D&D have you guys been playing? Whenever I've played D&D, if I want to pick something up it happens immediately. Even if my character has to take time to do it (like if it was buried or something), we don't sit there with a stopwatch waiting, in real-time, for the time it takes in-game. We say it happened, and unless some sort of interesting complication occurs, we move on.
If I want to pick a lock, I roll a die, and then it does or does not happen. My DM doesn't hand me a puzzle sheet for me to fill out for it to happen.
There are other options than the mini game. There is a short gauntlet, sub quest, hidden glade, undiscovered cavern, mist covered tower, enchanted isle and Rapunzel waiting, silently texting her plight...;)
If the collectible is the object of a real quest, then that's great. There's nothing wrong with a quest whose objective is recovering an item of some sort. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about pointlessly long animations to pick up things, and lame repetitive mini-games for routine tasks.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I'm not familiar with STO's system. Can you describe it?
In STO you collect ingredients by finding anomalies of different sorts and scanning them. Then enter a 2-3 second mini-game of sorts. You can either a.) cancel out of the minigame immediately and collect a set amount of rewards or b.) try to match the wavelengths with your tricorder (in about 2-3 seconds) to collect additional materials.
It's a pretty fun little game that fits the STO universe quite nicely. When I'm pressed for time, I just get my ingredients and go. When I have time to enjoy it - which is most the time, because I do enjoy it - I spend the 3 seconds feeling like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> scientist and get my extra loot.
I hope Cryptic finds something similarly engaging for this game.
I'm sure there's a video of it somewhere on youtube. It's so quick, it's not painful at all to match wavelengths in the middle of battle. Anyways, I like multitasking.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
This video is a minute and a half but it shows the part relevant to this discussion in the first 30 seconds.
If the collectible is the object of a real quest, then that's great. There's nothing wrong with a quest whose objective is recovering an item of some sort. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about pointlessly long animations to pick up things, and lame repetitive mini-games for routine tasks.
That much is fine with me. Pointless animations are useless to me, especially like the Final Fantasy style. What I would not like is to make the rogue class one bit less than it could be by watering down the necessary skills that the other classes need in a group. Leaving a rogue behind and forging ahead with all fighter/mage character should be handicapped in some ways IMO.
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
I think the STO ingredients collection minigame is a really good place to start from, even when talking about disarming traps or picking locks. It's very short, it's engaging, and it's optional. And if you opt not to do it, you still get a reward.
Perhaps if the lockpicking minigame was only 2-4 seconds long, and you could opt out of it for a passive skill check, but by actively engaging in the activity have the possibility of picking something faster or higher level?
Because honestly - if my draw to the rogue class is disarming traps, and I'm not the one who disarms traps - if it's a totally passive ability that doesn't include me as a player at all - that's just not appealing to me. Because I love playing stealthy, lockpicking, disarming types. But it was dreadfully boring for me in DDO because of those reasons. It's painfully obvious that DDO isn't a game made for those types of characters. For better inspiration - look at the Thief series.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
Really tho a discussion about Lockpicking probably deserves it's own thread.
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draelin1978Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think the STO ingredients collection minigame is a really good place to start from, even when talking about disarming traps or picking locks. It's very short, it's engaging, and it's optional. And if you opt not to do it, you still get a reward.
Perhaps if the lockpicking minigame was only 2-4 seconds long, and you could opt out of it for a passive skill check, but by actively engaging in the activity have the possibility of picking something faster or higher level?
Because honestly - if my draw to the rogue class is disarming traps, and I'm not the one who disarms traps - if it's a totally passive ability that doesn't include me as a player at all - that's just not appealing to me. Because I love playing stealthy, lockpicking, disarming types. But it was dreadfully boring for me in DDO because of those reasons. It's painfully obvious that DDO isn't a game made for those types of characters. For better inspiration - look at the Thief series.
That sounds like you would either take a "10" or actually "roll your die" by attempting to pick it, and say if you fail from actual attempting and botch it it makes the lock unpickable.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Well, all of this is kinda moot with collecting ingredients if we don't know how the crafting system is and how it will relate to customizing our character
Well, all of this is kinda moot with collecting ingredients if we don't know how the crafting system is and how it will relate to customizing our character
Do you guys think a dwarf should have a bigger variety of beards to choose from, or a bigger variety of emo metro "lets go loiter in a coffee shop in our skinny jeans and listen college band music" hair styles?
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do you guys think a dwarf should have a bigger variety of beards to choose from, or a bigger variety of emo metro "lets go loiter in a coffee shop in our skinny jeans and listen college band music" hair styles?
I'm...going to go with beards. Is having a braided one OK or is it too em...
I'm so disappointed by the character customization in Neverwinter... wish there would be much more cosmetical options... PW still has the better character creation... think I still have to wait for games with better customization, don't want to play with ugly character, even if im a big fan of the Drizzt books.
Comments
Ugh, there's nothing I detest more than this. If I'm going to be bothered to click on something, I want it to be an activity, not a distraction. I'd much rather see something more like STO's ingredient collection system.
Talk about boring, no fun, rote, repeatathon, grindfest. Sounds like the ingredients for a sleep potion. Action based? yes that's obvious, but without available options for customization for the foundry is asking for a 4 year project to fizzle instead of explode in the gaming world. Tons of ADD minions might object of course, but this is D&D based. I'm hoping for both and good implementation.
There are other options than the mini game. There is a short gauntlet, sub quest, hidden glade, undiscovered cavern, mist covered tower, enchanted isle and Rapunzel waiting, silently texting her plight...;)
https://soundcloud.com/nathankilgore/i-wanna-see-you2
Otter ~~~~ on Beholder
Hypothetically again, say a person new to rogue wants to "roleplay" that he is great at disarming/unlocking. He would have to sacrifice all those points to the relevant skills, lowering his non-mini-game abilities.
I don't claim to know how the points system will work, but this is just a guess based on my pnp experiences. If you convert some character skills over to player twitch skills, the need to specialize in those areas becomes irrelevant (with enough practice from the player). You might even have a wizard able to do a better job than your rogue at his own game.
If they find a solution to this, though, I'd still love to be able to interact more with my skills in real time while playing.
Still, things like stealth and battle strategy is based on player skill rather than your character's INT (unless you're truly roleplaying your character's INT).
I'm not familiar with STO's system. Can you describe it?
So what alternative is more fun, not rote, not "repeatathon" and not a grindfest? Because the only other sort of collectibles nodes I've seen involve sitting there while your character does an animation for 5 seconds. How would that be better in any way?
My preference would be to not have tons of little collectibles from nodes to gather, but if we're going to have them, at least make picking them up as painless as possible.
Seriously, what form D&D have you guys been playing? Whenever I've played D&D, if I want to pick something up it happens immediately. Even if my character has to take time to do it (like if it was buried or something), we don't sit there with a stopwatch waiting, in real-time, for the time it takes in-game. We say it happened, and unless some sort of interesting complication occurs, we move on.
If I want to pick a lock, I roll a die, and then it does or does not happen. My DM doesn't hand me a puzzle sheet for me to fill out for it to happen.
If the collectible is the object of a real quest, then that's great. There's nothing wrong with a quest whose objective is recovering an item of some sort. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about pointlessly long animations to pick up things, and lame repetitive mini-games for routine tasks.
In STO you collect ingredients by finding anomalies of different sorts and scanning them. Then enter a 2-3 second mini-game of sorts. You can either a.) cancel out of the minigame immediately and collect a set amount of rewards or b.) try to match the wavelengths with your tricorder (in about 2-3 seconds) to collect additional materials.
It's a pretty fun little game that fits the STO universe quite nicely. When I'm pressed for time, I just get my ingredients and go. When I have time to enjoy it - which is most the time, because I do enjoy it - I spend the 3 seconds feeling like a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> scientist and get my extra loot.
I hope Cryptic finds something similarly engaging for this game.
I'm sure there's a video of it somewhere on youtube. It's so quick, it's not painful at all to match wavelengths in the middle of battle. Anyways, I like multitasking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLGehGNo5i0
That much is fine with me. Pointless animations are useless to me, especially like the Final Fantasy style. What I would not like is to make the rogue class one bit less than it could be by watering down the necessary skills that the other classes need in a group. Leaving a rogue behind and forging ahead with all fighter/mage character should be handicapped in some ways IMO.
https://soundcloud.com/nathankilgore/i-wanna-see-you2
Otter ~~~~ on Beholder
Perhaps if the lockpicking minigame was only 2-4 seconds long, and you could opt out of it for a passive skill check, but by actively engaging in the activity have the possibility of picking something faster or higher level?
Because honestly - if my draw to the rogue class is disarming traps, and I'm not the one who disarms traps - if it's a totally passive ability that doesn't include me as a player at all - that's just not appealing to me. Because I love playing stealthy, lockpicking, disarming types. But it was dreadfully boring for me in DDO because of those reasons. It's painfully obvious that DDO isn't a game made for those types of characters. For better inspiration - look at the Thief series.
That sounds like you would either take a "10" or actually "roll your die" by attempting to pick it, and say if you fail from actual attempting and botch it it makes the lock unpickable.
(HINT HINT Cryptic.)
Oh! I almost missed the subtle hint!
You mean cosmetics?
I'm...going to go with beards. Is having a braided one OK or is it too em...
*axe swishes a millimeter before him*
It's rugged sir!
WTB hot elf men ; ;