forget about the 4e & remember its NeverWinter there should be other races & the like because its comeing from the greatest ever mmorpg NeverWinter Nights...just my 2 cents worth & the thing about buying stats with Zen...if i have to pay for anything after i buy the game it will be a waste & a epic fail ... again just my opinion
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well Trogs are actually lizardmen. But if you wanted to play a lizardman you're a lot better off hoping for Dragonborn than Trog, even tho it's not the same thing... it's scaly skin, right?
Heh, comparing them is probably pretty insulting to Dragonborn everywhere.
Dragonborn in 4e may be mammals. That, or either a disturbing combination of reptilia and mammals - that is what art would have us believe. So perhas lizardmen are insulted that you compared dragonborn to them. They are perhaps hissing behind my ear right now, saying "wesss aresss puresss bloodssss"
Dragonborn are still hatched:
Young dragonborn grow faster than human children do. They walk hours after hatching, reach the size and development of a ten-year-old human child by the age of three, and reach adulthood by fifteen. They live about as long as humans do.
Even if it's revealed they are warn-blooded. They are not mammals unless you rule them a "platypus" species.
forget about the 4e & remember its NeverWinter there should be other races & the like because its comeing from the greatest ever mmorpg NeverWinter Nights...just my 2 cents worth & the thing about buying stats with Zen...if i have to pay for anything after i buy the game it will be a waste & a epic fail ... again just my opinion
Ok, lets get this straight, this game is as related to NWN series as it is to BG, or Daggerdale, or IWD.
It just happens to be in the city called Neverwinter which was also the setting of one of the other series.
Second, you cannot buy the game - it is free.
Thirdly, it is based on 4e rules. Infact, it was supposed to be based on NW Campign guide of 4e PnP and to be released as a twin product. Unlike NWN which is only "based" on D&D - this game is canon. That means WotC is shaping this game alongside cryptic to keep lore story in check.
Seriously dude, you should read FAQs or something.
@truth - thats why I said "That, or either a disturbing combination of reptilia and mammals"
But frankly, I don't really want to think what they are. For I feel that if I were to know this ghastly truth, something innocent inside my soul will die... just a dreadful feeling though.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
forget about the 4e & remember its NeverWinter there should be other races & the like because its comeing from the greatest ever mmorpg NeverWinter Nights...just my 2 cents worth & the thing about buying stats with Zen...if i have to pay for anything after i buy the game it will be a waste & a epic fail ... again just my opinion
1.) I doubt they will forget 4e as in many of their promotional videos they clearly state it is "based on the 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting"
2.) Neverwinter Nights was not an MMO. Either of them.
3.) The game is Free to Play, you will not be required to purchase it to play it
4.) I hope they do not sell stat increases of any kind in the store
5.) At the very least you should browse the forums or watch a few related youtube videos to alleviate your concerns before erroneously addressing non-concerns here.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Out of curiosity, is this also how you feel about the platypus?
We...don't talk much about that. Please know...it's very painful
Originally Posted by xzavior01 forget about the 4e & remember its NeverWinter there should be other races & the like because its comeing from the greatest ever mmorpg NeverWinter Nights...just my 2 cents worth & the thing about buying stats with Zen...if i have to pay for anything after i buy the game it will be a waste & a epic fail ... again just my opinion
Respectfully, your information you are using is wrong.
First off this is Free to Play, not Buy to Play (as in Guild Wars 2) or Pay to Play (as in a subscription model.) You're not buying anything, you're downloading a free digital client copy. This was already addressed so I'll leave that be.
But more importantly, this MMO game is based off of signed Cryptic/WotC 4E legal agreements.
It was clear this game was 4E themed since November of 2011 and is not using some earlier edition or custom house-rules, and WotC is EXTREMELY strict with approving cannon products with their label on it. Since this game literally rewrote the PnP Neverwinter campaign Sourcebook based on their adherence (the lich villain for example,) it's not going to deviate from some core concepts, like the basic races and classes, their powers and their names.
The original NWN game was based off of AOL's online connection and used strict D&D only races and classes based on second edition rules cleared by TSR.
What you may also be referring to as a "NWN MMO" is the later Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 video games. Those are a single player game with multi-player co-op options (including IP server connect to other author portals) based off of D&D 3rd edition rules, 3.0 and 3.5 respectively.
Even then, core races and classes had to be approved by WotC in the main game for Bioware to include them in that game. Do you really want to guess which "boring races and classes" those were (which also allowed player mods for races/classes ONLY when authors made their own persistent world modules for players to connect to and is still NOT an MMO? If you connected to any Persistent Worlds, those were house-ruled custom scripted changes, NOT cannon.)
Gong back to our MMO, while Foundry Authors can create the appearance of custom races in their adventures, they still are based on core creatures to prevent cheating, and users (while they still may be able to to a lot of physical appearance customization to look like something else) will still pick a D&D only race which their abilities are featured from, not "custom pick" like CO or STO.
The decision has not changed since 2010, but you are free to contact WotC and see if you can change their mind.
forget about the 4e & remember its NeverWinter there should be other races & the like because its comeing from the greatest ever mmorpg NeverWinter Nights...just my 2 cents worth & the thing about buying stats with Zen...if i have to pay for anything after i buy the game it will be a waste & a epic fail ... again just my opinion
Please see the links in my signature with regards to various video interviews, gameplay videos etc before commenting about "forgetting" 4 edition, as well Neverwinter is loosely a spiritual successor to the NWN 1 and 2 and I do stress loosely...
Ok, lets get this straight, this game is as related to NWN series as it is to BG, or Daggerdale, or IWD.
It just happens to be in the city called Neverwinter which was also the setting of one of the other series.
Second, you cannot buy the game - it is free.
Thirdly, it is based on 4e rules. Infact, it was supposed to be based on NW Campign guide of 4e PnP and to be released as a twin product. Unlike NWN which is only "based" on D&D - this game is canon. That means WotC is shaping this game alongside cryptic to keep lore story in check.
Seriously dude, you should read FAQs or something.
I hate to drop this on you, but this game is going to be an RPG, more or less. Y'know, the ones with reading dialog and stories and stuff.
um... i think he(or she?) was being sarcastic to other user, and didn't actually mean that.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
So much hostility. :eek:
I guess it's clear, if there's one thing D&D Players won't fail to defend it's D&D and the lore...even if it's only speculative.
*sits back and laughs*
To think I'd see the day where confrontation arises at classifying a fictional creature as a lizard, mammal or platypus.
Just to throw some facts to stir the pot a bit...
A shark is a fish...some sharks like Great Whites are warm blooded (in a sense)
Experts now believe dinosaurs such as T-Rex and Velociraptors were warm blooded
Birds hatch from eggs, have scales and take care of their young...ooooh maybe they're Birdmen!
Now excuse me while I run from angry developers and D&D Enthusiasts alike! *runs into the distance screaming like a girl*
...
A shark is a fish...some sharks like Great Whites are warm blooded (in a sense)
...
EDIT: And what do you mean fictional? Next you will say planar travel isn't possible, or maybe Santa isn't real ....
Well, I am not aware of any non-mammals who suckle their young ones (except for platypus who is a mammal but lays eggs grr... why am I even going there?)
Look at PHB:Dragonborns, Page 5 - picture of that female cleric in blue robes. She has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as do any female 4e dragonborn. Plus they are warm blooded. Also they have a concept of teaching their kids their family skills.
Considering all that, I would say they are more close to mammals. But I don't really want to go in that grey area.
I guess I have already trespassed into the grey area.
*oopsiedaiseies ... runs into the distance screaming like a girl like the one before*
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Dragonborn women have boobies?
Uhh...Is there room for three?
*Does his best little girl shriek and runs after the two.*
This thread started here
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This thread is here now.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
It's fantasy. Modern biological concepts are non-applicable. Taxonomy is based on evolution by natural selection, and there isn't any reason to believe that the world of D&D operates in that manner.
Dragonborn are human-shaped draconic creatures. That's their concept. Human females are shaped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>; ergo Dragonborn females do too.
Lizardmen are big bipedal lizards with human-like mental faculties. That's their concept. It's a different one. One where <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> would not fit with the concept.
Will we be arguing about where Beholders fit into the tree of life next?
... Dragonborn are human-shaped draconic creatures. That's their concept. ...
Although dragonborn do have draconic heritage(of slavery to dragons), whether they are draconic or not is severely contested.
Also I see nothing wrong with using scientific principles in determining species of Dragonborn. You Sir, are not very well-versed with scientific methods of investigation used in realms. I have asked Sir Bedivere to send you some scrolls to make you wise in the ways of science.
I hate to drop this on you, but this game is going to be an RPG, more or less. Y'know, the ones with reading dialog and stories and stuff.
pffft, speak for yourself. I have played my fair share of rpg's/mmo's, and I tend to do very little reading in them, especially mmo's. My philosophy is "look for floating punctuation mark, click on NPC, ignore all text he has to say, and click 'accept.'"
I put over 2000 hrs into WoW (I haven't played in years) and I still couldn't tell you what the hell the story is, now or then. BG, IWD, PS:T, FO 1 and 2....most of the text was skipped.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
pffft, speak for yourself. I have played my fair share of rpg's/mmo's, and I tend to do very little reading in them, especially mmo's. My philosophy is "look for floating punctuation mark, click on NPC, ignore all text he has to say, and click 'accept.'"
I put over 2000 hrs into WoW (I haven't played in years) and I still couldn't tell you what the hell the story is, now or then. BG, IWD, PS:T, FO 1 and 2....most of the text was skipped.
Yep, same. One of the annoying things about TERA was there didn't seem to be any way to jump through text and accept quests with the keyboard. Scrolling and clicking with the mouse was just too slow.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
I'm hoping that because this game was originally being developed as a co-op RPG and that it has some pretty awesome lore to draw on from WotC that they have dialogue intriguing enough for me to not want to buzz right past it at least the first time thru. Multiple dialogue branches with real consequences in terms of quest progression would be even cooler, but I won't be very disappointed if I don't see that.
I'm hoping that because this game was originally being developed as a co-op RPG and that it has some pretty awesome lore to draw on from WotC that they have dialogue intriguing enough for me to not want to buzz right past it at least the first time thru. Multiple dialogue branches with real consequences in terms of quest progression would be even cooler, but I won't be very disappointed if I don't see that.
Regardless, my foundry missions will be very story heavy. If you skim them without reading, you might never be able to reach the end - making right choice at right moment will mean that you will save time - and also know what to choose from million of choices - something like RPG games which we used to play long ago (retro games). So you can always look forward to...
(Though I also tend to put tougher encounters and elaborate traps so you should be prepared to fail the combat too...)
EDIT: You won't fail wrong choices, but the dialog tree would be like 50 or more boxes. So you might not want to skip reading text otherwise you will never find those 5 boxes which lead to to next part from those 50 boxes...
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Regardless, my foundry missions will be very story heavy. If you skim them without reading, you might never be able to reach the end - making right choice at right moment will mean that you will save time - and also know what to choose from million of choices - something like RPG games which we used to play long ago (retro games). So you can always look forward to...
(Though I also tend to put tougher encounters and elaborate traps so you should be prepared to fail the combat too...)
EDIT: You won't fail wrong choices, but the dialog tree would be like 50 or more boxes. So you might not want to skip reading text otherwise you will never find those 5 boxes which lead to to next part from those 50 boxes...
Yeah, this has just about zero appeal to me. This just sounds like "guess which option the author thinks is the right choice". No thanks.
That's not to say you shouldn't do what you like, but I hope for clear descriptions for these sorts of quests so I know to avoid them.
Yeah, this has just about zero appeal to me. This just sounds like "guess which option the author thinks is the right choice". No thanks.
That's not to say you shouldn't do what you like, but I hope for clear descriptions for these sorts of quests so I know to avoid them.
You will be surprised how [post=275351]little it helps[/post] those who have decided not to read at all. Unfortunately you cannot communicate with those who don't read as previous experiences have taught...
EDIT: And right choice is the basis of games which make you think before blindly clicking all buttons. You may not like them, but many enjoy it.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You will be surprised how [post=275351]little it helps[/post] those who have decided not to read at all. Unfortunately you cannot communicate with those who don't read as previous experiences have taught...
EDIT: And right choice is the basis of games which make you think before blindly clicking all buttons. You may not like them, but many enjoy it.
I am not in any way opposed to games requiring thought. Just not particularly interested in playing an electronic version of a "choose your own adventure" book. I've generally found them to be less about "thought" and more about guessing what the author chose on a whim to be the right choice.
There is a big difference between an author pre-selecting the "right" option to choose, and setting up a situation and allowing a player to puzzle through how to solve it best using the tools available to them. The latter is the gameplay I'm looking for in a game.
Reading is a tool that enables you solve the puzzle the best way. Especially in a lore heavy game such as this.
So then it's the game of testing reading skills. Again, not what I'm here for.
Give me whatever relevant setup I need for approaching the upcoming adventure, as concisely as possible, and I'd be happy. I'm here to use cool powers in a fast-paced action game to the best of my ability to kill monsters, creatively if possible, and advance my characters power. That's the sort of thing computer games are good at doing. I play tabletop RPGs for story and roleplaying; I don't personally see much point playing a pale imitation here.
Comments
The troglodyte is not a lizardman but shares traits. Not only is it still this way (and in the MM for fourth edition,) we've seen one interviewed before.
Dragonborn are still hatched:
Even if it's revealed they are warn-blooded. They are not mammals unless you rule them a "platypus" species.
Huh?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Ok, lets get this straight, this game is as related to NWN series as it is to BG, or Daggerdale, or IWD.
It just happens to be in the city called Neverwinter which was also the setting of one of the other series.
Second, you cannot buy the game - it is free.
Thirdly, it is based on 4e rules. Infact, it was supposed to be based on NW Campign guide of 4e PnP and to be released as a twin product. Unlike NWN which is only "based" on D&D - this game is canon. That means WotC is shaping this game alongside cryptic to keep lore story in check.
Seriously dude, you should read FAQs or something.
But frankly, I don't really want to think what they are. For I feel that if I were to know this ghastly truth, something innocent inside my soul will die... just a dreadful feeling though.
1.) I doubt they will forget 4e as in many of their promotional videos they clearly state it is "based on the 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting"
2.) Neverwinter Nights was not an MMO. Either of them.
3.) The game is Free to Play, you will not be required to purchase it to play it
4.) I hope they do not sell stat increases of any kind in the store
5.) At the very least you should browse the forums or watch a few related youtube videos to alleviate your concerns before erroneously addressing non-concerns here.
Out of curiosity, is this also how you feel about the platypus?
We...don't talk much about that. Please know...it's very painful
Respectfully, your information you are using is wrong.
First off this is Free to Play, not Buy to Play (as in Guild Wars 2) or Pay to Play (as in a subscription model.) You're not buying anything, you're downloading a free digital client copy. This was already addressed so I'll leave that be.
But more importantly, this MMO game is based off of signed Cryptic/WotC 4E legal agreements.
It was clear this game was 4E themed since November of 2011 and is not using some earlier edition or custom house-rules, and WotC is EXTREMELY strict with approving cannon products with their label on it. Since this game literally rewrote the PnP Neverwinter campaign Sourcebook based on their adherence (the lich villain for example,) it's not going to deviate from some core concepts, like the basic races and classes, their powers and their names.
The original NWN game was based off of AOL's online connection and used strict D&D only races and classes based on second edition rules cleared by TSR.
What you may also be referring to as a "NWN MMO" is the later Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 video games. Those are a single player game with multi-player co-op options (including IP server connect to other author portals) based off of D&D 3rd edition rules, 3.0 and 3.5 respectively.
Even then, core races and classes had to be approved by WotC in the main game for Bioware to include them in that game. Do you really want to guess which "boring races and classes" those were (which also allowed player mods for races/classes ONLY when authors made their own persistent world modules for players to connect to and is still NOT an MMO? If you connected to any Persistent Worlds, those were house-ruled custom scripted changes, NOT cannon.)
Gong back to our MMO, while Foundry Authors can create the appearance of custom races in their adventures, they still are based on core creatures to prevent cheating, and users (while they still may be able to to a lot of physical appearance customization to look like something else) will still pick a D&D only race which their abilities are featured from, not "custom pick" like CO or STO.
The decision has not changed since 2010, but you are free to contact WotC and see if you can change their mind.
Please see the links in my signature with regards to various video interviews, gameplay videos etc before commenting about "forgetting" 4 edition, as well Neverwinter is loosely a spiritual successor to the NWN 1 and 2 and I do stress loosely...
Meh i dont like FAQ's they make me read
I hate to drop this on you, but this game is going to be an RPG, more or less. Y'know, the ones with reading dialog and stories and stuff.
um... i think he(or she?) was being sarcastic to other user, and didn't actually mean that.
I guess it's clear, if there's one thing D&D Players won't fail to defend it's D&D and the lore...even if it's only speculative.
*sits back and laughs*
To think I'd see the day where confrontation arises at classifying a fictional creature as a lizard, mammal or platypus.
Just to throw some facts to stir the pot a bit...
A shark is a fish...some sharks like Great Whites are warm blooded (in a sense)
Experts now believe dinosaurs such as T-Rex and Velociraptors were warm blooded
Birds hatch from eggs, have scales and take care of their young...ooooh maybe they're Birdmen!
Now excuse me while I run from angry developers and D&D Enthusiasts alike!
*runs into the distance screaming like a girl*
EDIT: And what do you mean fictional? Next you will say planar travel isn't possible, or maybe Santa isn't real ....
Well, I am not aware of any non-mammals who suckle their young ones (except for platypus who is a mammal but lays eggs grr... why am I even going there?)
Look at PHB:Dragonborns, Page 5 - picture of that female cleric in blue robes. She has <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as do any female 4e dragonborn. Plus they are warm blooded. Also they have a concept of teaching their kids their family skills.
Considering all that, I would say they are more close to mammals. But I don't really want to go in that grey area.
I guess I have already trespassed into the grey area.
*oopsiedaiseies ... runs into the distance screaming like a girl like the one before*
Uhh...Is there room for three?
*Does his best little girl shriek and runs after the two.*
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(gutter)
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.
.
.
.
.
This thread is here now.
Dragonborn are human-shaped draconic creatures. That's their concept. Human females are shaped with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>; ergo Dragonborn females do too.
Lizardmen are big bipedal lizards with human-like mental faculties. That's their concept. It's a different one. One where <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> would not fit with the concept.
Will we be arguing about where Beholders fit into the tree of life next?
Although dragonborn do have draconic heritage(of slavery to dragons), whether they are draconic or not is severely contested.
Also I see nothing wrong with using scientific principles in determining species of Dragonborn. You Sir, are not very well-versed with scientific methods of investigation used in realms. I have asked Sir Bedivere to send you some scrolls to make you wise in the ways of science.
*woops filter alert vibrating... runs into the distance "Hey waaait for me folks!!!*
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The fur makes me wonder if it a a dress for winters or summers. But I am not complaining... just wondering.
I put over 2000 hrs into WoW (I haven't played in years) and I still couldn't tell you what the hell the story is, now or then. BG, IWD, PS:T, FO 1 and 2....most of the text was skipped.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
Yep, same. One of the annoying things about TERA was there didn't seem to be any way to jump through text and accept quests with the keyboard. Scrolling and clicking with the mouse was just too slow.
(Though I also tend to put tougher encounters and elaborate traps so you should be prepared to fail the combat too...)
EDIT: You won't fail wrong choices, but the dialog tree would be like 50 or more boxes. So you might not want to skip reading text otherwise you will never find those 5 boxes which lead to to next part from those 50 boxes...
Yeah, this has just about zero appeal to me. This just sounds like "guess which option the author thinks is the right choice". No thanks.
That's not to say you shouldn't do what you like, but I hope for clear descriptions for these sorts of quests so I know to avoid them.
You will be surprised how [post=275351]little it helps[/post] those who have decided not to read at all. Unfortunately you cannot communicate with those who don't read as previous experiences have taught...
EDIT: And right choice is the basis of games which make you think before blindly clicking all buttons. You may not like them, but many enjoy it.
I am not in any way opposed to games requiring thought. Just not particularly interested in playing an electronic version of a "choose your own adventure" book. I've generally found them to be less about "thought" and more about guessing what the author chose on a whim to be the right choice.
There is a big difference between an author pre-selecting the "right" option to choose, and setting up a situation and allowing a player to puzzle through how to solve it best using the tools available to them. The latter is the gameplay I'm looking for in a game.
So then it's the game of testing reading skills. Again, not what I'm here for.
Give me whatever relevant setup I need for approaching the upcoming adventure, as concisely as possible, and I'd be happy. I'm here to use cool powers in a fast-paced action game to the best of my ability to kill monsters, creatively if possible, and advance my characters power. That's the sort of thing computer games are good at doing. I play tabletop RPGs for story and roleplaying; I don't personally see much point playing a pale imitation here.