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- Two, Cryptic didn't build this game 'from the ground up' to be a free-to-play MMO. It started as a P2P MMO, then went to a CRPG ala Diablo, intended to be sold as a boxed game. Then they didn't know what they wanted. THEN it became an F2P MMO.
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You are right here, but what devs mean from grounds up is - the game has been built for f2p unlike two other games.
The two games existed as p2p already and then they were converted - i.e. its marketing strategy changed.
This game's marketing strategy has been revamped much much before launch hence it can be said to be f2p grounds up.
However I agree - comparison with STO and CO is but obvious how everyone will treat it as those are the only two cryptic games out there.
D&D 4E, Player's Handbook1...
That's not plethora. Or was someone expecting the new Edition of D&D to be released with all the classes and races of previous editions at the same time and book?:p
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This game will be better than.. what was its name? Daggerdale? Which I heard it didn't have plethora of classes. By the way, is Daggerdale D&D?:p
There are 84 builds (Check the sig) of classes. It certainly is plethora. Of these 84, 5 have made it in at launch - 5 builds, 4 classes. 2 more are planned later(as said in NOCS).
However you are right in that one should not expect all at launch. But if it is builds, not classes, one should have expected something like 8-10 at least. Or about 10% of total builds.
The builds in pnp are recommended and in here these builds are basically pre-determined.
yes, Daggerdale was made on PnP rules of 4e unlike this game. The reason it failed was because of bugs and the fact that it was released for niche audience and it could not compete with NWN's UGC content. This game competes with MMOs which is a completely different League.
Regarding classes, Daggerdale had four - but they were completely customisable. i.e. it was like a class as they are in DDO - with high customisation. Hence you could have made infinite builds out of single class. Hence the comparison is flawed.
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Biased answer is biased. D&D 4E didn't launch with all those classes. As I already said in my post. But I know that some people expect new MMORPGs to release with the content equivalent of some years after release.:)
Monk, Barbarian, and Druid are all starting classes.
That's because a lot of those players, like a lot of posters here, are willing to blame ABSOLUTELY ANYONE but Cryptic for the things Cryptic has said and done wrong, ignoring any and all evidence to the contrary. They had done that since the original beta test of Star Trek Online. I corrected them back then, too.
They haven't. The ups and downs that STO still goes through is proof of such. Every single Season is the epitome of "overpromised and underdelivered." Especially for Klingons.
This is purely subjective. Many of my Fleetmates and I vastly preferred the game as it was at launch (minus the bugs) when Zinc was running the game's development. There was a clear and concise plan for the game. There was a focus on improving content for max-level players. There were plans in place to improve the quality of life for Klingons in the short- and long-terms. Now, it's just multi-faction levelling content and C-Store power-buying, and has been since well before the F2P transition.
And a lot of those various websites and streams made the same predictions about CO and STO, for a lot of the same reasons, only to flip the tables when the game launched because it launched in the same condition it was in when the game was first beta-tested. That being said, even though I expect more of the same (because it's all Cryptic has shown they know how to do), there's little to suggest this will or won't happen, at least until Open Beta.
If Open Beta is pretty much exactly like the next Closed Beta Weekend (like CO and STO before this), expect the same exact response by all of the media outlets praising the game now, after launch - "I have no idea why we liked this game anymore."
1. Like I said I had heard that Cryptic was pushed to release the game from ingame players, however that doesn't mean I'm saying they didn't do anything wrong. I have played STO and I do know they've promised a lot and hasn't delivered, but I can also say that after they went F2P it felt like the game was starting to improve however that doesn't excuse that it took them years to get Klingon PvE in the game, and it isn't even half the content Federation players have.
2. From what the devs have said, and from what they are starting to deliver in their games it does look like at least they have learnt some from their mistakes.
3. Yes that is purely subjective, I do agree there. I do however like the game after it went F2P and so do most of my fleetmates and friends.
4. A lot also said the game sucked, I tried the Beta and it was horrible, so I didn't buy it. Streaming wasn't as big back then either and a lot has changed since CO and STO was in development. I do trust sources like TotalBiscuit for example and Gamebreaker.
1. Like I said I had heard that Cryptic was pushed to release the game from ingame players, ...
No. They had to release it quickly due to IP expiring by that time. They did an excellent job actually within the constraints - considering the delay was not their fault.
No they have "based" it on 4E, but "based" does not mean exact. Like "based" on a true story does not mean everything you see is the exact way it happened. "based" has a lot of space for variation from original
Exactly. Its like most comic book movies are only based on the characters and plot-lines. You have to change some things to make it work best in the different format.
No. They had to release it quickly due to IP expiring by that time. They did an excellent job actually within the constraints - considering the delay was not their fault.
Again, that's not true. The time constraint STO was under was ENTIRELY OF CRYPTIC'S MAKING. The only reason they got the license is because Cryptic told CBS (well before Atari bought them, btw) they could make the game in two years.
Yes it would... if it were allowed in 4E rules. It's allowed in NONE at character creation, and not without consequences for existing characters. And even in those that allow it, an evil alignment is a prerequisite on a veteran character, because extending your life by means of anything other than a carefully worded wish or divine intervention is considered to be extremely evil. Upsetting the natural order and all that.
Frankly, I'd prefer it if both builds for each class were available at launch. I'd be willing to wait a little longer for it. Why? Because the way Cryptic has implemented the builds as classes, it will be impossible to say, re-skill a Control Wizard into a War Wizard once that build is implemented. If they had started with the core classes it would have alleviated 80% of the complaints against lack of customization, but they didn't have the foresight for this.
And if your argument is "Oh, but in 4E tabletop you have to pick a build on class creation". Yes, that's true... with the assistance of a DM that will help you weigh the pros and cons of each build. You know how that translates to an MMO? A tutorial for each class that lets you taste each build, with a character starting at level 0, and a build choice at the end of the tutorial that brings you to level one of your build choice.
I have no doubt that the game will do fine. Our opinions may be ignored, but never be worthless, because our pockets tend to follow our opinion's leads. Those that go for simple games will play whatever is put in front of them that isn't too complicated. NWO falls in this category, nothing wrong with that. Makes it more approachable, and that generates money. Those that crave D&D will play here for the FR atmosphere and DDO for the D&D feel. Which will generate less money from the D&D faithful, but that's the price you pay when selling out to the "majority".
well if u read SALVATORES new neverwinter books its all about liche s several characters based on them, so it it very relevant
well if u read SALVATORES new neverwinter books its all about liche s several characters based on them, so it it very relevant
Except that with 3 books of back-story purported to support the launch of this awful game, there's no use of over 1000 pages of Salvatore-provided content to launch you in to the game.
Now that I've dowloaded and tried the game, I'm disgusted that this has been branded "D&D" as it's the single, worst implemention of character generation/creation from any D&D game - computer or PnP - that I've ever experienced.
STO, SW:TOR, LOTR, DDO - played all at launch and as bad as they were, they were nothing compared to this tripe.
Except that with 3 books of back-story purported to support the launch of this awful game, there's no use of over 1000 pages of Salvatore-provided content to launch you in to the game.
Now that I've dowloaded and tried the game, I'm disgusted that this has been branded "D&D" as it's the single, worst implemention of character generation/creation from any D&D game - computer or PnP - that I've ever experienced.
STO, SW:TOR, LOTR, DDO - played all at launch and as bad as they were, they were nothing compared to this tripe.
Hmmm, maybe I haven't. I have every PC & Atari ST game that i've bought in over 25 years still in my bookcase, but I don't remember that one.
Which is odd as I'm sure I've got pretty much everything else! Happy to be educated - how bad was it?
I guess I'm just grumpy at myself for having got caught up in the hype of Salvatore's "The Nerwinter Saga Trilogy" and the supposed tie in to this game and D&D gaming ruleset (whichever ruleset it's been based on). It's many, many years since I've been so disappointed by a game/ franchise launch.
It's not bad, it's in fact a GREAT arcade classic. It's D&D based, but being an arcade game, there's of course minimal character generation/creation. You only had 6 different characters: Cleric, Dwarf, Elf, Fighter, Thief, Magic-User (each had two different spritesets, and the separate cleric/magic-user sprites had slight differences in spells, making a total of 8 different options). Being an arcade game, it's of course heavily geared towards combat, and there's no such thing as tanking.
What I'm implying is that Neverwinter might be better considered as an action game than an RPG, at least at the current point where character customization is as noted limited. But that is no reason for the game to be bad, just because it doesn't follow the usual stratagem of character customization.
You may well be right, perhaps it has been incorrectly marketed all along - MMOARCADE rather than MMORPG.
I hope you continue to enjoy it!
For this D&D old-timer, it's been too much of a disapointment. I'll now quietly go back to Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition and then perhaps re-read on old AD&D module from end to end ... Tomb of Horrors might cheer me up!
Comments
The two games existed as p2p already and then they were converted - i.e. its marketing strategy changed.
This game's marketing strategy has been revamped much much before launch hence it can be said to be f2p grounds up.
However I agree - comparison with STO and CO is but obvious how everyone will treat it as those are the only two cryptic games out there.
There are 84 builds (Check the sig) of classes. It certainly is plethora. Of these 84, 5 have made it in at launch - 5 builds, 4 classes. 2 more are planned later(as said in NOCS).
However you are right in that one should not expect all at launch. But if it is builds, not classes, one should have expected something like 8-10 at least. Or about 10% of total builds.
The builds in pnp are recommended and in here these builds are basically pre-determined.
yes, Daggerdale was made on PnP rules of 4e unlike this game. The reason it failed was because of bugs and the fact that it was released for niche audience and it could not compete with NWN's UGC content. This game competes with MMOs which is a completely different League.
Regarding classes, Daggerdale had four - but they were completely customisable. i.e. it was like a class as they are in DDO - with high customisation. Hence you could have made infinite builds out of single class. Hence the comparison is flawed.
good read even they say we need more classes and character customisation.
Monk, Barbarian, and Druid are all starting classes.
1. Like I said I had heard that Cryptic was pushed to release the game from ingame players, however that doesn't mean I'm saying they didn't do anything wrong. I have played STO and I do know they've promised a lot and hasn't delivered, but I can also say that after they went F2P it felt like the game was starting to improve however that doesn't excuse that it took them years to get Klingon PvE in the game, and it isn't even half the content Federation players have.
2. From what the devs have said, and from what they are starting to deliver in their games it does look like at least they have learnt some from their mistakes.
3. Yes that is purely subjective, I do agree there. I do however like the game after it went F2P and so do most of my fleetmates and friends.
4. A lot also said the game sucked, I tried the Beta and it was horrible, so I didn't buy it. Streaming wasn't as big back then either and a lot has changed since CO and STO was in development. I do trust sources like TotalBiscuit for example and Gamebreaker.
Exactly. Its like most comic book movies are only based on the characters and plot-lines. You have to change some things to make it work best in the different format.
Again, that's not true. The time constraint STO was under was ENTIRELY OF CRYPTIC'S MAKING. The only reason they got the license is because Cryptic told CBS (well before Atari bought them, btw) they could make the game in two years.
The only party at fault is Cryptic.
well if u read SALVATORES new neverwinter books its all about liche s several characters based on them, so it it very relevant
Except that with 3 books of back-story purported to support the launch of this awful game, there's no use of over 1000 pages of Salvatore-provided content to launch you in to the game.
Now that I've dowloaded and tried the game, I'm disgusted that this has been branded "D&D" as it's the single, worst implemention of character generation/creation from any D&D game - computer or PnP - that I've ever experienced.
STO, SW:TOR, LOTR, DDO - played all at launch and as bad as they were, they were nothing compared to this tripe.
Have you ever played "D&D: Shadow over Mystara"?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Hmmm, maybe I haven't. I have every PC & Atari ST game that i've bought in over 25 years still in my bookcase, but I don't remember that one.
Which is odd as I'm sure I've got pretty much everything else! Happy to be educated - how bad was it?
I guess I'm just grumpy at myself for having got caught up in the hype of Salvatore's "The Nerwinter Saga Trilogy" and the supposed tie in to this game and D&D gaming ruleset (whichever ruleset it's been based on). It's many, many years since I've been so disappointed by a game/ franchise launch.
What I'm implying is that Neverwinter might be better considered as an action game than an RPG, at least at the current point where character customization is as noted limited. But that is no reason for the game to be bad, just because it doesn't follow the usual stratagem of character customization.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I hope you continue to enjoy it!
For this D&D old-timer, it's been too much of a disapointment. I'll now quietly go back to Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition and then perhaps re-read on old AD&D module from end to end ... Tomb of Horrors might cheer me up!