2) No gear grinds. Sick to death of gear grinds. I swear, when will a game developing company realize it isn't the weapon that's so great, but the person WIELDING the weapon. PLAYER SKILL matters.
It seems that I have to quote myself to respond to this wish.
Yeah right go back to Guild Wars 2 if you don't want any loot/grind fest. This game will not have the ridiculous loot system of Guild Wars where you max your character in less then 2 weeks. Ok maybe not everlasting lootmill like WOW but if you play 40 hours/week it should take many months to max a character.
I also don't want to see ridiculous death system of Guild Wars 2 which is a silly respawn festival where everybody can resurrect anyone. This game will have tanks and healers as should be.
Adventure yes but with power rewards. Cool fights also please and cool Evil monsters. In the Hobbit(2012) movie one of the most cool encounters is not the 3 trolls but instead the Evil in the ruins of...
I rate Hobbit(2012) as 8.5/10 very good,,, an odd movie with both cute things and cool things. Yes a MMO can have some fun cute things, but it should also have cool and scary monsters.
That said of course player skill matters. Even in WOW some players use more smart tactics in PvP Battlegrounds. This is also Action MMO so yes there is skill needed. That a game has wonderful power increase that lasts a looooooong time does not mean it would not require skill.
It seems that I have to quote myself to respond to this wish.
You actually didn't have to respond to the wish.
But, since you did, I'll open the debate with, I was not clear enough in my example, that you still misunderstood what point I was trying to make?
If so, I shall reiterate. I'd not want a gear grind in this game at all. I'd rather see some kind of system where a player increases skill with an attack/spell/weapon, etc. This way, that +1 sword you found at level one and treasure greatly stays with you the whole game, while your SKILL wielding it makes attacks more deadly and damaging.
Making gear the reward simply encourages elitism and divides a player base insofar as the grinders excel quickly then gripe when there's nothing else to grab for, while the casuals simply plod along at their own pace picking up things. Not to mention the crowd that doesn't like going out and endlessly whopping the big bad in that dungeon for the slim chance of a rare loot drop. Are they to be excluded simply because their definition of "play" differs from someone else's? I should hope not.
PvP would suffer as well, as those that grind out the content will dominate in the playfield, thus making any PvP area sparse and barren save for the gankers.
Granted, in all my examples -eventually- there will be balance....(one would hope so, at any rate) but in the beginning? I predict great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Also, for the record...I never played Guild Wars 2. It's an NCSoft product, and therefore I shall spend no money on it at all.
Addressing the statement you made about playing 40 hours a week taking many months to max out a character...I have to say this...what about the people that have perhaps four hours a week to play? You want them to spend YEARS getting to the max levels? Rather selfish and inconsiderate, that viewpoint is young padwan.
Any MMO out there, in order to be successful, MUST appeal to the broadest customer base possible. Simple business logic. Your methods are exclusionary and too restrictive to be good business policy. But then...they might not BE your methods. You may be stating facts from developer posts/interviews/whatnot. I don't know. All I'm doing is wishing and hoping.
But, since you did, I'll open the debate with, I was not clear enough in my example, that you still misunderstood what point I was trying to make?
If so, I shall reiterate. I'd not want a gear grind in this game at all. I'd rather see some kind of system where a player increases skill with an attack/spell/weapon, etc. This way, that +1 sword you found at level one and treasure greatly stays with you the whole game, while your SKILL wielding it makes attacks more deadly and damaging.
Making gear the reward simply encourages elitism and divides a player base insofar as the grinders excel quickly then gripe when there's nothing else to grab for, while the casuals simply plod along at their own pace picking up things. Not to mention the crowd that doesn't like going out and endlessly whopping the big bad in that dungeon for the slim chance of a rare loot drop. Are they to be excluded simply because their definition of "play" differs from someone else's? I should hope not.
PvP would suffer as well, as those that grind out the content will dominate in the playfield, thus making any PvP area sparse and barren save for the gankers.
Granted, in all my examples -eventually- there will be balance....(one would hope so, at any rate) but in the beginning? I predict great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Also, for the record...I never played Guild Wars 2. It's an NCSoft product, and therefore I shall spend no money on it at all.
Addressing the statement you made about playing 40 hours a week taking many months to max out a character...I have to say this...what about the people that have perhaps four hours a week to play? You want them to spend YEARS getting to the max levels? Rather selfish and inconsiderate, that viewpoint is young padwan.
Any MMO out there, in order to be successful, MUST appeal to the broadest customer base possible. Simple business logic. Your methods are exclusionary and too restrictive to be good business policy. But then...they might not BE your methods. You may be stating facts from developer posts/interviews/whatnot. I don't know. All I'm doing is wishing and hoping.
Please don't talk like you speak for mass taste.
You seem to not understand. In December 2009 WOW released ICC(Ice Crown Citadel) Raid! http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel which was extreme powerprogression. In year 2010 WOW reached top glory of over 12 million players which is World Record!
About Elitism? Yes it can be bad if you do mock people. However lust for power is not bad it is only natural. From another game forum and my response to SuLor post:
You've often flamed the "casual loot system" and I'm curious what exactly you have a problem with and why it bugs you.
What is so wrong with everyone getting a reward for completing a dungeon? Why shouldn't everyone who has progressed and improved and accomplished something get a reward? Is it really the fact that everyone gets rewarded who makes significant contributions that bothers you, or just the plateau?
"What is so wrong with everyone getting a reward for completing a dungeon?" Absolutely nothing wrong with that and same goes for Events and the partial reward system in Events is good.
"
Is it really the fact that everyone gets rewarded who makes significant contributions that bothers you, or just the plateau
" That everybody who makes a significant contribution gets rewarded is absolutely ok with me.
I dislike only the Power Plateau. I LOVE when I grow more powerful I mean more then simple stats ... more skills of I a spellcaster new spells or if a fighter new weapon combos. I do like also the stat increase.
Look I don't know if you play Pen an Paper rpg games? I am what people call a powergamer though roleplaying can be fun sometimes. About Elitism. Yes I am partly Elitist. Saying partly because I do not laugh at players with bad gear in WOW. It is sad some Elitists are sadists who like to hurt the feelings of other people, but thats not me. No when I say I am partly Elitist I mean I like to compete for "perfection".Maybe thats why I like sports in real life and like to watch sports from TV.
You said I should I think about casual players? My brother has a family and is very casual player. He only can play a few hours/week. In Dungeons Dragons many low-mid level adventures are excellent. I can have many characters and play with a low level character together with my brother when he logs in. Point is this game can be fun even before you max your character.
Game does not need to be everlasting lootmill like WOW. That said if you play 40 hours/month it should take many months to max a character. I will play with many characters.
Well, nothing wrong with those who want to play as they want. There is no real way to play any game - play as you like.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Read it read it! Its interesting.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Read this! You gotta comment on this!
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Press reply! You gonna ignore it?
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Make it a bit sarcastic!
Angel on my right:-
Takes out a gun and shoots the devil.
Now it points its gun at me. I am writing my last will will my mouse on quick reply and anytime *Bang!*
Some were mentioned before:
1. a tavern
2. a dragon
3. cool stories!
4. nice people and no stress, I usually play to relax and not to accomplish something. Everything should also be soloable, even if I need 5 levels more than others.
5. some different level-system, like points for questing, talking, trading, crafting, killing stuff. Maybe talking earned points can only be spend on social attributes like charisma?
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well, nothing wrong with those who want to play as they want. There is no real way to play any game - play as you like.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Read it read it! Its interesting.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Read this! You gotta comment on this!
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Press reply! You gonna ignore it?
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Make it a bit sarcastic!
Angel on my right:-
Takes out a gun and shoots the devil.
Now it points its gun at me. I am writing my last will will my mouse on quick reply and anytime *Bang!*
Hey ok maybe I got a bit carried away "slightly" in my previous post ahem:rolleyes:
To change subject what I want in this game. I want Succubus monster please see Lost Girl TV series for example. I want Vampires and Werewolves and please see True Blood TV series as example. I want Angels and Demons and Ghosts please see later seasons of Supernatural as example.
Hey ok maybe I got a bit carried away "slightly" in my previous post ahem:rolleyes:
To change subject what I want in this game. I want Succubus monster please see Lost Girl TV series for example. I want Vampires and Werewolves and please see True Blood TV series as example. I want Angels and Demons and Ghosts please see later seasons of Supernatural as example.
So basically, Twilight in a medieval setting? No thanks.
You seem to not understand. In December2009 WOW released ICC(Ice Crown Citadel) Raid! http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel which was extreme powerprogression. In year 2010 WOW reached top glory of over 12 million players which is World Record!
About Elitism? Yes it can be bad if you do mock people. However lust for power is not bad it is only natural.
Hrm. Hitler lusted for power. Ceasar lusted for power. Napoleon. Ghengis Khan. History is full of people that lusted after power. While it may be natural, it is far from "not bad". It seems to define the people we consider as evil. Matter of fact, it's the mainstay of the chaotic evil alignment.
"What is so wrong with everyone getting a reward for completing a dungeon?" Absolutely nothing wrong with that and same goes for Events and the partial reward system in Events is good.
"
Is it really the fact that everyone gets rewarded who makes significant contributions that bothers you, or just the plateau
" That everybody who makes a significant contribution gets rewarded is absolutely ok with me.
See...gold is a reward. Silver, too. Gems. It doesn't have to be about gear. Really, it doesn't.
About Elitism. Yes I am partly Elitist. Saying partly because I do not laugh at players with bad gear in WOW. It is sad some Elitists are sadists who like to hurt the feelings of other people, but thats not me. No when I say I am partly Elitist I mean I like to compete for "perfection". Maybe thats why I like sports in real life and like to watch sports from TV.
So it's not a word that deals with how you treat others, but how you are viewed by others and yourself.
In my experience, it's also not a good thing. Just saying.
I only comment on this not to defend elewyndyl but because I think you're missing his point.
Firstly, using a dictionary source when referencing something that has been popularised through the gaming culture seems a little self serving. Secondly, if we take a reasonable interpretation
Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, higher intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.
I think what elewyndyl was referring to (and is fair to take into consideration too I believe) he's "partly elitist" because he doesn't consider himself to have the negative connotations you're attaching with elitism.
I would consider myself elitist because, through my gaming (multiple multiplayer games over the years, including World of Warcraft) and skill level, my word does carry more weight than others. When other guilds wanted advice, they would ask our guild or our players (this is similar for a lot of games, over many servers/players for as long as games have existed - e.g. that guy who was the best CS player at your local LAN).
My rambling point:
I think not only is elitism inevitable, it can be either a good or a bad thing. Sort of that, 'power comes responsibility' etc etc talk. And because someone acknowledges they are better than the average player, I don't think that's a bad thing per se.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Nobody speaks for anybody. We speak our personal opinions and those who agree with that, support, and those who disagree with it, contrast. If all our voices aren't judged, we all lose in the making of games like this. Saying something is this way because it's popular here or (more likely) popular before in [insert D&D or MMO reference] misses what we can do here, not there.
Elitism as an accomplishment is acceptable It's when they e-peen or (more importantly) mock those who haven't gotten there where we get our vitriol from.
If those who accomplish share that's good. If they say "I got this and you are not this HAHA," then we got a problem. It's when we have the permissive state of the latter when the gaming community for that area has a problem.
One more thing:
An armor with +5 should be already special, no need to have a reactive armor which spells finger of death on anyone touching it while healing it's wearer for +5 every round and provide +10 on all attributes and and and
1. The ability to visit the "Spirit Soaring" library and meet Cadderly and Danica.
2. To go toe to toe with one of Lloth's Clerics.
3. To see Menzoberranzan
4. To meet and quest for/with Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun
5. To see Elminster
6. To see Waterdeep
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Elitism as an accomplishment is acceptable It's when they e-peen or (more importantly) mock those who haven't gotten there where we get our vitriol from.
Correct.
Finally when I said lust for power is natural I meant it. This is a game. If I kill people in PvP it does not make me mass murderer in real world. Like wise if I like powergrowth in games that absolutely does not make me Hitler in the real world.
So basically, Twilight in a medieval setting? No thanks.
I am not a fan of Twilight movies. Twilight does not come even near decent scary scale. Even those TV series I mentioned are more scary then Twilight.
Werewolves are confirmed to be in Neverwinter and even the early E3 2012 trailers showed Werewolves. You seem to not agree on anything with me even when I try to change subject. Wishing for Angels, Succubus Demon in particular, Demons in general, Ghosts and Vampires is very natural since they are all Dungeon Dragons Monsters.
I honestly don't have a clue if any Angels are in Cryptic created adventures. That said the important thing would be that they are least available in the FOUNDRY for creators so they can be used in community created content. The rest of those monsters are standard DD stuff and there are lots of undeads in this game for sure that I do know.
Of course I like other monsters.... like Smaug the Dragon from Tolkien books. I am pretty sure this game has cool Dragons.
Nobody speaks for anybody. We speak our personal opinions and those who agree with that, support, and those who disagree with it, contrast. If all our voices aren't judged, we all lose in the making of games like this. Saying something is this way because it's popular here or (more likely) popular before in [insert D&D or MMO reference] misses what we can do here, not there.
Elitism as an accomplishment is acceptable It's when they e-peen or (more importantly) mock those who haven't gotten there where we get our vitriol from.
If those who accomplish share that's good. If they say "I got this and you are not this HAHA," then we got a problem. It's when we have the permissive state of the latter when the gaming community for that area has a problem.
I'm wanting to add to this part I highlighted. It's also bad when it is used to exclude players from your group or clique.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
Right now I'm mostly hoping for player controlled territory. Either in the form of PvP battlegrounds like holding castles or real estate like player and guild housing. Preferably both.
I've always thought it would be neat to have a side job owning a small shop in an MMO. Apparently Black Desert will allow players to do this.
Werewolves are confirmed to be in Neverwinter and even the early E3 2012 trailers showed Werewolves. You seem to not agree on anything with me even when I try to change subject. Wishing for Angels, Succubus Demon in particular, Demons in general, Ghosts and Vampires is very natural since they are all Dungeon Dragons Monsters.
Actually, it's not so much the inclusion of the monsters themselves...but the shows you quoted as wanting to draw them from?
Yeah. Twilight knockoffs. Seriously. A succubus from a popular TV show? No. A thousand times no.
The image you project when referring to shows like that are not the true images of the monsters you wish to see. They are NOT romanticized versions and dumbed down to make them more appealing.
I can agree with the inclusion of the actual monsters you mentioned and even angels ( as I recall, in D&D they were called planars or some such)....but I can't agree with the emo versions presented in the shows you mentioned. I'd rather not see them if that is the case, and that's the only point I was trying to make.
Actually, it's not so much the inclusion of the monsters themselves...but the shows you quoted as wanting to draw them from?
Yeah. Twilight knockoffs. Seriously. A succubus from a popular TV show? No. A thousand times no.
The image you project when referring to shows like that are not the true images of the monsters you wish to see. They are NOT romanticized versions and dumbed down to make them more appealing.
I can agree with the inclusion of the actual monsters you mentioned and even angels ( as I recall, in D&D they were called planars or some such)....but I can't agree with the emo versions presented in the shows you mentioned. I'd rather not see them if that is the case, and that's the only point I was trying to make.
The show "Lost Girl" is dark and sexy and anything BUT Emo Twilight. Dang it now I want my third season already!
These succubi would fit just fine in the Neverwinter game being developed. I'd explain why on Helm's Hold, but...Spoilers (thank you River)
The show "Lost Girl" is dark and sexy and anything BUT Emo Twilight.
......."Lost Girl is a Canadian supernatural crime drama television series that premiered on Showcase on September 12, 2010. The series was created by Michelle Lovretta, and is produced by Prodigy Pictures, in association with Shaw Media. It follows the life of a succubus named Bo, played by Anna Silk, as she learns to control her abilities, helps those in need, and discovers the truth about her origins."
Quoted directly from the wiki on it.
"In folklore traced back to medieval legend, a succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon or supernatural entity that appears in dreams, who takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual intercourse. The male counterpart is the incubus. Religious traditions hold that repeated intercourse with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or even death."
That doesn't sound very.....good and helpful to me. Demons are supposed to be these nasty, evil things hell bent(yaypun!)on destroying mankind after a good long session of torture.
That show you named, Lost Girl? Yah. Hate to break it to you, but it's a Twilight representation of the myth. I could even call it an "Anne Rice-ing" of the myth. A romanticizing of the horrible thing it "really" is supposed to be.
While there are a few( and that would be VERY few) religions that do not attach a "good" or "evil" label to demons....virtually every other mythos out there does attach an evil connotation to them. By sheer weight of mass opinion and information, the logical conclusion is...if it is a demon, it is evil. ESPECIALLY in the D&D lore. There are no "good" demons. Certainly there is no succubus "helping those in need".
While anyone is perfectly free to play whatever character they want, be it a catgirl, demon, succubus, elf(dark or otherwise), futa godling....and often a combination of all of the above(in halves, no less.)I'm also free to point and laugh loudly.
I'll just agree to disagree on the subject of television shows accurately portraying anything at all. Might as well put Honey Boo Boo in the game if that would be the case.
But game lore specifically portrays demons, devils, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, and well...generally all undead or infernal creatures as evil. Often mercilessly so.
And Drizzt? He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. MY Drow will be evil to the core, thank you. Probably won't be followers of that tired Spider Demon, Lolth, but hey. , that's a topic for another thread.
As always, these are just my (firm) opinions to which you may lend all or none of the credence you wish.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
......."Lost Girl is a Canadian supernatural crime drama television series that premiered on Showcase on September 12, 2010. The series was created by Michelle Lovretta, and is produced by Prodigy Pictures, in association with Shaw Media. It follows the life of a succubus named Bo, played by Anna Silk, as she learns to control her abilities, helps those in need, and discovers the truth about her origins."
Quoted directly from the wiki on it.
"In folklore traced back to medieval legend, a succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon or supernatural entity that appears in dreams, who takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual intercourse. The male counterpart is the incubus. Religious traditions hold that repeated intercourse with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or even death."
That doesn't sound very.....good and helpful to me. Demons are supposed to be these nasty, evil things hell bent(yaypun!)on destroying mankind after a good long session of torture.
That show you named, Lost Girl? Yah. Hate to break it to you, but it's a Twilight representation of the myth. I could even call it an "Anne Rice-ing" of the myth. A romanticizing of the horrible thing it "really" is supposed to be.
While there are a few( and that would be VERY few) religions that do not attach a "good" or "evil" label to demons....virtually every other mythos out there does attach an evil connotation to them. By sheer weight of mass opinion and information, the logical conclusion is...if it is a demon, it is evil. ESPECIALLY in the D&D lore. There are no "good" demons. Certainly there is no succubus "helping those in need".
While anyone is perfectly free to play whatever character they want, be it a catgirl, demon, succubus, elf(dark or otherwise), futa godling....and often a combination of all of the above(in halves, no less.)I'm also free to point and laugh loudly.
I'll just agree to disagree on the subject of television shows accurately portraying anything at all. Might as well put Honey Boo Boo in the game if that would be the case.
But game lore specifically portrays demons, devils, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, and well...generally all undead or infernal creatures as evil. Often mercilessly so.
And Drizzt? He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. MY Drow will be evil to the core, thank you. Probably won't be followers of that tired Spider Demon, Lolth, but hey. , that's a topic for another thread.
As always, these are just my (firm) opinions to which you may lend all or none of the credence you wish.
Respectfully, the sexuality of all kinds, death, warring and torturous acts in "Lost Girl" mean you don't know what you're saying unless you've seen it. Yeah, it's not NC-17 for basic cable, or even D&D themed pure evil. Still it's dark and tortured, about a fey that refuses to choose sides between light and dark fey (and that was historically accurate as seelie and unseelie long before D&D) and the problems and opportunity the "unaligned" one gets. Ridiculous at times? Of course. But also a Damn good dark story. And I don't mean that Robert Patterson BS HAMSTER I DID see to get perspective. Just don't ask me to see it again. "Oh I'm a sparkling vegetarian vampire so I don't go all evil." If only I was exaggerating....
I want to see sexy armors for males, no more of that full body stuff!!! I want my abs and nips!
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited January 2013
Defined class skills.
Character presence.
Mobile and visual combat.
Effective ambient sound.
Skill checks.
Defined class skills:-
With a limited number of skills being usable at any one time, the need to have strong and defined skills is even greater now. While having a skill that are based around at wills can be relatively simple, encounter skills should serve as an attractive choice in a great many situations.
Lance of faith is a great example from 4ed D&D, while causing damage as a ranged attack, it also has the extra effect of allowing one ally you can see to gain +2 power bonus on their next attack roll. Ice prison is another fantastic at will skill, dealing its damage while also slowing targets until the end of your next turn.
While these extra effects may be a small addition to skills, they add flavor to a class and make the over all experience that much more enjoyable to the player.
Character presence:-
Most people want to feel that they have had an impact upon the fight or encounter they have just been in. You may be a defender, a leader a strike or a controller, but at the end of an encounter you want to be able to say to your self, I had a presence!
It could be as simple as a striker or defender pulling a goblin off from the leader who was struggling from the pressure, to allowing some one to use a key skill saving their lives, blocking a powerful blow that would have other wised toppled lesser people, every one should feel apart of the chain that holds the party together.
This does not just apply to party's however, while questing in the open world, you should feel that you have an impact on the world around you in a very real sense. having saved the little girls teddy bear from a raiding war band of kobolds hooked on stuff toys, the little girl is no longer crying as she was when you first swore and oath to save her fluffy little friend, she is now running around happily with her toy. While this is a small example, it does have an impact as a player on how you see the world.
Mobile and visual combat:-
Combat in many games is very important, if it is done wrong it can turn off a massive majority of the play base, Engaging and entertaining combat is important. From the videos we have seen the combat is both visual and immerse. I believe it is important that they continue down this path, keeping enemy npcs using visual attacks showing when they are about to strike allowing players to move out of the way or raise a shield in defiance. It is important however not to cause things to become to static, while having a great and meaningful visual display on enemy's it may lead to fights becoming stagnant, if the visuals are too slow the mobs will be standing still while doing them for a long period over a fight, allowing visuals to be displayed while moving will remove this issue, it also has the side effect of making it harder to move away from a great many skills, but this can also be resolved by slowing the enemy npc down while it is showing its visual queues a 30% movement speed reduction would solve that, this is not to say that all skills have to be this way, but just enough to keep things fluid and not to static.
Effective ambient sound:-
Sound is so important, especially in a D&D game. While you are in the dark caves by the rivers edge you want to be able to hear the dripping of the collected water that has been building up on the cave ceiling. The clicking sounds of insects that reside in the shadows and corners. Or even the sound of chatting in the local tavern, while mugs of ale clash together as some overly excited dwarf begin cheering.
Sound, especially the ambient sounds really immerse the player into the world, music will bring fond or chilling memory's to the fore front of the mind.
Skill checks:-
This is something I would love to see in neverwinter. Do you have a brute of a dwarf in your party, well there is a big rock blocking your path, and it needs someone very strong to push it out of the way to get past. Your mighty dwarf companion sets up to the rock and begins to push with all his strength, only to remember... he is a mage with only 10 strength! you exchange a glare with each other, and start walking around the long way.
Skill checks can really add an extra layer of game play to the mix, allowing hidden passages to be spotted by a keen eyed ranger, or magical weapons to be used temporarily during an encounter by a wise wizard.
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Nice summary. I caught myself nodding to your points! Excellent points of Powers (the D&D Term for MMO skills, since skills means something else in D&D.) All I can say is skills are used in game (as in D&D, not MMO when using this term) but might not be as you initially expected them. Think 4E and not D&D NEXT skill checks.
Well you two should really start seeing the Succubus TV series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZFwZGyLwpk
That is one of my favorite episodes(I even like the music). The succubus is the dark haired woman that enters the stripclub. No wings they would be very difficult to hide in a modern World. She is bisexual and has supernatural powers.
That said Succubus TV series I would rate it for Teens while True blood(a Vampire series) has full nudity and is for Adults.
I rate Succubus series as roughly 8/10. True Blood the vampire series with full nudity season 1,2 I rate 7/10. Season 3,4,5 are 9/10 entertainment for me. As a little teaser the last episode of Season 5 I rate as 10/10 entertainment and yeah it has absolutely my kind of ending. Both series will get more seasons.
I want it all of mature content:full Nudity, Action and Horror.
However Lost Girl have near nudity and want that this game can at least have near nudity.
Finally for people that have not seen these series. Both series have more lust and sexy scenes then love.... Passion and sex... of course True Blood has a little bit romance, but it is more about lust and sex. Both series while not really scary do have more or less dark and horror theme... all episodes are not great but it is very interesting.
The very end of True Blood season 5 and Lost Girl season 2 are very cool endings and very interesting!
Lets see, features from other MMO's I'd like to see in this MMO.
A monk class, naturally. I love hand to hand combat.
Alignment, being chaotic evil should have different dialogue and quests than someone lawful good.
Dynamic quests like in Guild Wars 2 that change the environment
Grinding like in FFXI.
Bosses that require strategy and skill to take down rather than button mashing.
Puzzles and Riddles.
Dungeons like the Crucible in DDO.
Elemental themed dungeons. Like water dungeon, fire dungeon, earth dungeon.
Traps and locked doors that require a rogue or a agile person to disarm.
A respectful community.
I would like to see a lot of the same type of things, but most of all I am just hoping for an immersive experience. I have been extremely disappointed with GW2 so far because they offer so few dungeons, no actual "questing" other than your personal story line. The open world part of the game is ridiculously boring to me...a dynamic event takes about five minutes to complete and the rest of the open world is running around doing trivial tasks.
With Neverwinter I am hoping to see something that stays true to D&D, real adventuring, unique character development, and a solid story line. I want something that I can sink my teeth into... I want to enter a dungeon or quest and feel that sense of excitement/anticipation/dread that is desperately missing from GW2. I really like the fact that as of now it is planned to be 50% instance based and 50% open world... I think that the balance of the two is important. Another thing I would like to see is steady additions to the class and or race list. Forgotten Realms has so many different classes, races, and monsters and I would like to see as much variety as possible.
However Lost Girl have near nudity and want that this game can at least have near nudity.
Finally for people that have not seen these series. Both series have more lust and sexy scenes then love.... Passion and sex... of course True Blood has a little bit romance, but it is more about lust and sex. Both series while not really scary do have more or less dark and horror theme... all episodes are not great but it is very interesting.
The very end of True Blood season 5 and Lost Girl season 2 are very cool endings and very interesting!
Actually, I have checked out all those shows. Yup. Twilight for TV. Both of them. Supernatural is borderline Twilight for TV, too.
But hey, you're free to dig them as much as you like! I personally find them to be tripe, however. I am so glad that there are very likely not going to be NPC's like that in the game.
Comments
2. More races Starting with dragonborn, warforged, gnome or halflings
3. open world dungeons where you could meet new friends/guilds while exploring.
4. Alignment system that could tie in with new classes, quests, and control of said open world dungeon.
That said of course player skill matters. Even in WOW some players use more smart tactics in PvP Battlegrounds. This is also Action MMO so yes there is skill needed. That a game has wonderful power increase that lasts a looooooong time does not mean it would not require skill.
You actually didn't have to respond to the wish.
But, since you did, I'll open the debate with, I was not clear enough in my example, that you still misunderstood what point I was trying to make?
If so, I shall reiterate. I'd not want a gear grind in this game at all. I'd rather see some kind of system where a player increases skill with an attack/spell/weapon, etc. This way, that +1 sword you found at level one and treasure greatly stays with you the whole game, while your SKILL wielding it makes attacks more deadly and damaging.
Making gear the reward simply encourages elitism and divides a player base insofar as the grinders excel quickly then gripe when there's nothing else to grab for, while the casuals simply plod along at their own pace picking up things. Not to mention the crowd that doesn't like going out and endlessly whopping the big bad in that dungeon for the slim chance of a rare loot drop. Are they to be excluded simply because their definition of "play" differs from someone else's? I should hope not.
PvP would suffer as well, as those that grind out the content will dominate in the playfield, thus making any PvP area sparse and barren save for the gankers.
Granted, in all my examples -eventually- there will be balance....(one would hope so, at any rate) but in the beginning? I predict great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Also, for the record...I never played Guild Wars 2. It's an NCSoft product, and therefore I shall spend no money on it at all.
Addressing the statement you made about playing 40 hours a week taking many months to max out a character...I have to say this...what about the people that have perhaps four hours a week to play? You want them to spend YEARS getting to the max levels? Rather selfish and inconsiderate, that viewpoint is young padwan.
Any MMO out there, in order to be successful, MUST appeal to the broadest customer base possible. Simple business logic. Your methods are exclusionary and too restrictive to be good business policy. But then...they might not BE your methods. You may be stating facts from developer posts/interviews/whatnot. I don't know. All I'm doing is wishing and hoping.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
yeah i agree i dont like thet to ,i wish if some mmo would put some system against thet ppl they ruin games
You seem to not understand. In December 2009 WOW released ICC(Ice Crown Citadel) Raid!
http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel which was extreme powerprogression. In year 2010 WOW reached top glory of over 12 million players which is World Record!
About Elitism? Yes it can be bad if you do mock people. However lust for power is not bad it is only natural. From another game forum and my response to SuLor post:
"What is so wrong with everyone getting a reward for completing a dungeon?"
Absolutely nothing wrong with that and same goes for Events and the partial reward system in Events is good.
"
Is it really the fact that everyone gets rewarded who makes significant contributions that bothers you, or just the plateau
"
That everybody who makes a significant contribution gets rewarded is absolutely ok with me.
I dislike only the Power Plateau. I LOVE when I grow more powerful I mean more then simple stats ... more skills of I a spellcaster new spells or if a fighter new weapon combos. I do like also the stat increase.
Look I don't know if you play Pen an Paper rpg games? I am what people call a powergamer though roleplaying can be fun sometimes. About Elitism. Yes I am partly Elitist. Saying partly because I do not laugh at players with bad gear in WOW. It is sad some Elitists are sadists who like to hurt the feelings of other people, but thats not me. No when I say I am partly Elitist I mean I like to compete for "perfection". Maybe thats why I like sports in real life and like to watch sports from TV.
You said I should I think about casual players? My brother has a family and is very casual player. He only can play a few hours/week. In Dungeons Dragons many low-mid level adventures are excellent. I can have many characters and play with a low level character together with my brother when he logs in. Point is this game can be fun even before you max your character.
Game does not need to be everlasting lootmill like WOW. That said if you play 40 hours/month it should take many months to max a character. I will play with many characters.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Read it read it! Its interesting.
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Read this! You gotta comment on this!
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Press reply! You gonna ignore it?
Angel on my right:-
You should not enter controversial topics
Devil on my left:-
Hey! Make it a bit sarcastic!
Angel on my right:-
Takes out a gun and shoots the devil.
Now it points its gun at me. I am writing my last will will my mouse on quick reply and anytime *Bang!*
1. a tavern
2. a dragon
3. cool stories!
4. nice people and no stress, I usually play to relax and not to accomplish something. Everything should also be soloable, even if I need 5 levels more than others.
5. some different level-system, like points for questing, talking, trading, crafting, killing stuff. Maybe talking earned points can only be spend on social attributes like charisma?
To change subject what I want in this game. I want Succubus monster please see Lost Girl TV series for example. I want Vampires and Werewolves and please see True Blood TV series as example. I want Angels and Demons and Ghosts please see later seasons of Supernatural as example.
So basically, Twilight in a medieval setting? No thanks.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You first.
This isn't WoW. Never will be, thank the gods.
Hrm. Hitler lusted for power. Ceasar lusted for power. Napoleon. Ghengis Khan. History is full of people that lusted after power. While it may be natural, it is far from "not bad". It seems to define the people we consider as evil. Matter of fact, it's the mainstay of the chaotic evil alignment.
See...gold is a reward. Silver, too. Gems. It doesn't have to be about gear. Really, it doesn't.
Oh, I've played PnP games. Cut my teeth on them. Y'know what I do to powergamers? Rocks fall, kill everyone. Reroll. This time more balance, please.
Actually...there is no "partly elitist". I do not think that word means what you think it means. Here.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elitist?s=t
So it's not a word that deals with how you treat others, but how you are viewed by others and yourself.
In my experience, it's also not a good thing. Just saying.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
How many of you guys have actually used a Tool-set before and created your own Dungeon and Monsters?
I only comment on this not to defend elewyndyl but because I think you're missing his point.
Firstly, using a dictionary source when referencing something that has been popularised through the gaming culture seems a little self serving. Secondly, if we take a reasonable interpretation
I think what elewyndyl was referring to (and is fair to take into consideration too I believe) he's "partly elitist" because he doesn't consider himself to have the negative connotations you're attaching with elitism.
I would consider myself elitist because, through my gaming (multiple multiplayer games over the years, including World of Warcraft) and skill level, my word does carry more weight than others. When other guilds wanted advice, they would ask our guild or our players (this is similar for a lot of games, over many servers/players for as long as games have existed - e.g. that guy who was the best CS player at your local LAN).
My rambling point:
I think not only is elitism inevitable, it can be either a good or a bad thing. Sort of that, 'power comes responsibility' etc etc talk. And because someone acknowledges they are better than the average player, I don't think that's a bad thing per se.
Elitism as an accomplishment is acceptable It's when they e-peen or (more importantly) mock those who haven't gotten there where we get our vitriol from.
If those who accomplish share that's good. If they say "I got this and you are not this HAHA," then we got a problem. It's when we have the permissive state of the latter when the gaming community for that area has a problem.
An armor with +5 should be already special, no need to have a reactive armor which spells finger of death on anyone touching it while healing it's wearer for +5 every round and provide +10 on all attributes and and and
2. To go toe to toe with one of Lloth's Clerics.
3. To see Menzoberranzan
4. To meet and quest for/with Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun
5. To see Elminster
6. To see Waterdeep
Finally when I said lust for power is natural I meant it. This is a game. If I kill people in PvP it does not make me mass murderer in real world. Like wise if I like powergrowth in games that absolutely does not make me Hitler in the real world.
I am not a fan of Twilight movies. Twilight does not come even near decent scary scale. Even those TV series I mentioned are more scary then Twilight.
Werewolves are confirmed to be in Neverwinter and even the early E3 2012 trailers showed Werewolves. You seem to not agree on anything with me even when I try to change subject. Wishing for Angels, Succubus Demon in particular, Demons in general, Ghosts and Vampires is very natural since they are all Dungeon Dragons Monsters.
I honestly don't have a clue if any Angels are in Cryptic created adventures. That said the important thing would be that they are least available in the FOUNDRY for creators so they can be used in community created content. The rest of those monsters are standard DD stuff and there are lots of undeads in this game for sure that I do know.
Of course I like other monsters.... like Smaug the Dragon from Tolkien books. I am pretty sure this game has cool Dragons.
I'm wanting to add to this part I highlighted. It's also bad when it is used to exclude players from your group or clique.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
I've always thought it would be neat to have a side job owning a small shop in an MMO. Apparently Black Desert will allow players to do this.
Actually, it's not so much the inclusion of the monsters themselves...but the shows you quoted as wanting to draw them from?
Yeah. Twilight knockoffs. Seriously. A succubus from a popular TV show? No. A thousand times no.
The image you project when referring to shows like that are not the true images of the monsters you wish to see. They are NOT romanticized versions and dumbed down to make them more appealing.
I can agree with the inclusion of the actual monsters you mentioned and even angels ( as I recall, in D&D they were called planars or some such)....but I can't agree with the emo versions presented in the shows you mentioned. I'd rather not see them if that is the case, and that's the only point I was trying to make.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Angels are called angels. Planar is sometimes used to refer to monsters from other planes, but does not refer to one particular kind.
No comments on rest.
The show "Lost Girl" is dark and sexy and anything BUT Emo Twilight. Dang it now I want my third season already!
These succubi would fit just fine in the Neverwinter game being developed. I'd explain why on Helm's Hold, but...Spoilers (thank you River)
......."Lost Girl is a Canadian supernatural crime drama television series that premiered on Showcase on September 12, 2010. The series was created by Michelle Lovretta, and is produced by Prodigy Pictures, in association with Shaw Media. It follows the life of a succubus named Bo, played by Anna Silk, as she learns to control her abilities, helps those in need, and discovers the truth about her origins."
Quoted directly from the wiki on it.
"In folklore traced back to medieval legend, a succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon or supernatural entity that appears in dreams, who takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual intercourse. The male counterpart is the incubus. Religious traditions hold that repeated intercourse with a succubus may result in the deterioration of health or even death."
That doesn't sound very.....good and helpful to me. Demons are supposed to be these nasty, evil things hell bent(yaypun!)on destroying mankind after a good long session of torture.
That show you named, Lost Girl? Yah. Hate to break it to you, but it's a Twilight representation of the myth. I could even call it an "Anne Rice-ing" of the myth. A romanticizing of the horrible thing it "really" is supposed to be.
While there are a few( and that would be VERY few) religions that do not attach a "good" or "evil" label to demons....virtually every other mythos out there does attach an evil connotation to them. By sheer weight of mass opinion and information, the logical conclusion is...if it is a demon, it is evil. ESPECIALLY in the D&D lore. There are no "good" demons. Certainly there is no succubus "helping those in need".
While anyone is perfectly free to play whatever character they want, be it a catgirl, demon, succubus, elf(dark or otherwise), futa godling....and often a combination of all of the above(in halves, no less.)I'm also free to point and laugh loudly.
I'll just agree to disagree on the subject of television shows accurately portraying anything at all. Might as well put Honey Boo Boo in the game if that would be the case.
But game lore specifically portrays demons, devils, ghosts, werewolves, vampires, and well...generally all undead or infernal creatures as evil. Often mercilessly so.
And Drizzt? He's the EXCEPTION, not the rule. MY Drow will be evil to the core, thank you. Probably won't be followers of that tired Spider Demon, Lolth, but hey.
As always, these are just my (firm) opinions to which you may lend all or none of the credence you wish.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Respectfully, the sexuality of all kinds, death, warring and torturous acts in "Lost Girl" mean you don't know what you're saying unless you've seen it. Yeah, it's not NC-17 for basic cable, or even D&D themed pure evil. Still it's dark and tortured, about a fey that refuses to choose sides between light and dark fey (and that was historically accurate as seelie and unseelie long before D&D) and the problems and opportunity the "unaligned" one gets. Ridiculous at times? Of course. But also a Damn good dark story. And I don't mean that Robert Patterson BS HAMSTER I DID see to get perspective. Just don't ask me to see it again. "Oh I'm a sparkling vegetarian vampire so I don't go all evil." If only I was exaggerating....
Defined class skills:-
With a limited number of skills being usable at any one time, the need to have strong and defined skills is even greater now. While having a skill that are based around at wills can be relatively simple, encounter skills should serve as an attractive choice in a great many situations.
Lance of faith is a great example from 4ed D&D, while causing damage as a ranged attack, it also has the extra effect of allowing one ally you can see to gain +2 power bonus on their next attack roll. Ice prison is another fantastic at will skill, dealing its damage while also slowing targets until the end of your next turn.
While these extra effects may be a small addition to skills, they add flavor to a class and make the over all experience that much more enjoyable to the player.
Character presence:-
Most people want to feel that they have had an impact upon the fight or encounter they have just been in. You may be a defender, a leader a strike or a controller, but at the end of an encounter you want to be able to say to your self, I had a presence!
It could be as simple as a striker or defender pulling a goblin off from the leader who was struggling from the pressure, to allowing some one to use a key skill saving their lives, blocking a powerful blow that would have other wised toppled lesser people, every one should feel apart of the chain that holds the party together.
This does not just apply to party's however, while questing in the open world, you should feel that you have an impact on the world around you in a very real sense. having saved the little girls teddy bear from a raiding war band of kobolds hooked on stuff toys, the little girl is no longer crying as she was when you first swore and oath to save her fluffy little friend, she is now running around happily with her toy. While this is a small example, it does have an impact as a player on how you see the world.
Mobile and visual combat:-
Combat in many games is very important, if it is done wrong it can turn off a massive majority of the play base, Engaging and entertaining combat is important. From the videos we have seen the combat is both visual and immerse. I believe it is important that they continue down this path, keeping enemy npcs using visual attacks showing when they are about to strike allowing players to move out of the way or raise a shield in defiance. It is important however not to cause things to become to static, while having a great and meaningful visual display on enemy's it may lead to fights becoming stagnant, if the visuals are too slow the mobs will be standing still while doing them for a long period over a fight, allowing visuals to be displayed while moving will remove this issue, it also has the side effect of making it harder to move away from a great many skills, but this can also be resolved by slowing the enemy npc down while it is showing its visual queues a 30% movement speed reduction would solve that, this is not to say that all skills have to be this way, but just enough to keep things fluid and not to static.
Effective ambient sound:-
Sound is so important, especially in a D&D game. While you are in the dark caves by the rivers edge you want to be able to hear the dripping of the collected water that has been building up on the cave ceiling. The clicking sounds of insects that reside in the shadows and corners. Or even the sound of chatting in the local tavern, while mugs of ale clash together as some overly excited dwarf begin cheering.
Sound, especially the ambient sounds really immerse the player into the world, music will bring fond or chilling memory's to the fore front of the mind.
Skill checks:-
This is something I would love to see in neverwinter. Do you have a brute of a dwarf in your party, well there is a big rock blocking your path, and it needs someone very strong to push it out of the way to get past. Your mighty dwarf companion sets up to the rock and begins to push with all his strength, only to remember... he is a mage with only 10 strength! you exchange a glare with each other, and start walking around the long way.
Skill checks can really add an extra layer of game play to the mix, allowing hidden passages to be spotted by a keen eyed ranger, or magical weapons to be used temporarily during an encounter by a wise wizard.
However Lost Girl have near nudity and want that this game can at least have near nudity.
Finally for people that have not seen these series. Both series have more lust and sexy scenes then love.... Passion and sex... of course True Blood has a little bit romance, but it is more about lust and sex. Both series while not really scary do have more or less dark and horror theme... all episodes are not great but it is very interesting.
The very end of True Blood season 5 and Lost Girl season 2 are very cool endings and very interesting!
A monk class, naturally. I love hand to hand combat.
Alignment, being chaotic evil should have different dialogue and quests than someone lawful good.
Dynamic quests like in Guild Wars 2 that change the environment
Grinding like in FFXI.
Bosses that require strategy and skill to take down rather than button mashing.
Puzzles and Riddles.
Dungeons like the Crucible in DDO.
Elemental themed dungeons. Like water dungeon, fire dungeon, earth dungeon.
Traps and locked doors that require a rogue or a agile person to disarm.
A respectful community.
With Neverwinter I am hoping to see something that stays true to D&D, real adventuring, unique character development, and a solid story line. I want something that I can sink my teeth into... I want to enter a dungeon or quest and feel that sense of excitement/anticipation/dread that is desperately missing from GW2. I really like the fact that as of now it is planned to be 50% instance based and 50% open world... I think that the balance of the two is important. Another thing I would like to see is steady additions to the class and or race list. Forgotten Realms has so many different classes, races, and monsters and I would like to see as much variety as possible.
Actually, I have checked out all those shows. Yup. Twilight for TV. Both of them. Supernatural is borderline Twilight for TV, too.
But hey, you're free to dig them as much as you like!
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.