I hope race plays into more than just stats. Things like how people interact with you and say as well as additional objectives or quests. I'm about to start a PnP 3e game where my Tiefling warlock/blackguard is trying to resurrect Bael Turath through any means necessary. Its starting at lvl 15 and grew up a slave in a quarry until he had a dream where Asmodeus came to him and insisted he would take back his people if he would lead them to glory. He wears his broken shackles on his waist both to compel others to his cause and to challenge those against him. Playing as him I'll be taking quests from my advisers to keep the DM sane. I'd love to work the whole thing into some foundry work.
Wrong. Drow is a race for desperate guys trying to seduce the girls who are into the bad-boy-romantic-vampire/demon fad (which is .... all the girls).
I laughed very hard at this.
My take is that drizzt and basically all good drows are confused teen emo-people who want to cry every time they cut others.
Drizzt, "I was cutting the chicken in the kitchen the other day. I blah blah blah... and my mascara was destroyed..."
Evil drows are the ones who are "sane" At least they are doing what they are supposed to do.
What am I to do if a troll comes to my home tomorrow and announce he won't troll anymore? I will still burn it anyways.
p.s. Regarding tieflings(the name of ritual was bloodmoon and many innocent were killed), you have to remember that they belong to nobility. So even if they are very poor, they will b self-reliant and proud. Also, they are the only race whose ancestors fought on footing against the great draon (was it gold?) who commanded willing dragonborn soldiers(not slaves). Thus their achievements are nothing to scoff off.
Even dragonborn respect Tieflings.
It kind of sets Bahamut's power level at equal with Asmodeus.
I was reading the d&d 4e for dummies book and it looks like they removed Stat penalties from the four basic races, and I didn't see any race with int. Bonuses so I guess that means wizards are a go for any race.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I was reading the d&d 4e for dummies book and it looks like they removed Stat penalties from the four basic races, and I didn't see any race with int. Bonuses so I guess that means wizards are a go for any race.
Yes there is no problem with any race with any class, like they did with 3e, and the penalties are removed. Also, the Tiefling has an Int bonus. So do Eladrin but I don't know if that will be a race in this MMO (and likely not at release if so.)
ayezredMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited December 2012
No Gnome? How the hell am I supposed to make a trickster without a Gnome? Also another reason to have Gnomes is general mischief and the love of all things shiny....
Do drow have a dual wielding bonus in 4e? And I also noticed that surface elves are closer to human size now, does this also apply to male drow who were generally smaller than drow female in previous editions.
If this ends up being a flopper like age of conan I think adding classes will be the least of their conserns, but I personally high hopes for this game and barbs and rangers will likely be the first on the list.
in height, elf<human, however they are very close. So one elf may(abnormally longest elf) be longer than some other human; but on average they are a smaller race. drow are comparable to elf, but they are still on average shorter than drow women.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
No races have a dual wield bonus as there are no abilities that work with it without specific powers that allow dual wielding These are often found in fighter, ranger or rogue, options, but there are a few feats that may grant powers that allow an extra attack with said off hand weapon.
No Gnome? How the hell am I supposed to make a trickster without a Gnome? Also another reason to have Gnomes is general mischief and the love of all things shiny....
If this ends up being a flopper like age of conan I think adding classes will be the least of their conserns, but I personally high hopes for this game and barbs and rangers will likely be the first on the list.
Human +2 constitution
Elf +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Half Elf +2 Con, +2 Cha
The half elf seems a disconnect it gets the human con bonus and out of the blue gets a cha bonus gains little from the elf parent imo it should be +1 Con, +1 Dex, +1 wis. Gains a bit from each race but does not overshadow either parent species.
Dwarf typically is the species that gets the constitution bonus so not sure what will happen with them.
Humans are very versitile and can be quite different they should have a +2 bonus on any one stat.
Human +2 constitution
Elf +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Half Elf +2 Con, +2 Cha
The half elf seems a disconnect it gets the human con bonus and out of the blue gets a cha bonus gains little from the elf parent imo it should be +1 Con, +1 Dex, +1 wis. Gains a bit from each race but does not overshadow either parent species.
Dwarf typically is the species that gets the constitution bonus so not sure what will happen with them.
Humans are very versitile and can be quite different they should have a +2 bonus on any one stat.
Stat-wise, so far they are perfectly in line with the first iterations of the 4th edition rules. (Some races got an option later on to chose one of the stat bonus between two alternative, for example dwarves can decide to get +2 str instead of +2 wis).
As for humans, they decided to go with Constitution because it's the stat that it's useful with every class, they have just removed the choice component. (Humans can get +2 in one stat of their choice in the PnP)
If they stick to this, Dwarves will get +2 con and +2 wis, Tiefling +2dex and +2int, ecc...
But I wouldn't read too much into this, it's possible that this could be changed in later development stages to reflect better the latest PnP 4th edition rules.
Stat-wise, so far they are perfectly in line with the first iterations of the 4th edition rules. (Some races got an option later on to chose one of the stat bonus between two alternative, for example dwarves can decide to get +2 str instead of +2 wis).
As for humans, they decided to go with Constitution because it's the stat that it's useful with every class, they have just removed the choice component. (Humans can get +2 in one stat of their choice in the PnP)
If they stick to this, Dwarves will get +2 con and +2 wis, Tiefling +2dex and +2int, ecc...
But I wouldn't read too much into this, it's possible that this could be changed in later development stages to reflect better the latest PnP 4th edition rules.
Really do hope they change back to giving us the choice of +2 to any for humans. Making it +2 to con seems very out of line with the human description and the whole species adaptability focus.
I really don't see any reason for them to arbitrarily choose one stats like this, there's nothing OP about it.
As someone already suggested I think +2 Con for Human is just pointless. Humans as we know from DnD are versatile, quick to be good at almost anything, but never be the best at it. For that I would see like +1 to a few stats more in place or let player choose +2 bonus...
I'll actually chime in, in PWE's defense here to an extent.
Stat selection has generally been a problem in the character generation in other games, with people getting all POed if they feel like they chose the wrong stat and need to re-roll over it, due to later development in the game changing the value of one stat or another, desicians about diminishing returns, etc.... I've noticed that most games won't let you choose any kind of attribues during character creation anymore, so by going in this direction Neverwinter is kind of just being par for the course nowadays.
It WOULD be nice if you could choose some of these stats, but at the same time if someone finds themself putting +2 int into their human wizard, only to find they modify the game later to reduce the impact of intelligence at high levels compared to other attributes, due to game balance fixes, all of a sudden having that +2 stat in something else where it's give a better return could become a big issue, putting a long-term character at a disadvantage compared to one that rolled under the "new" system and also was maxed out.
I'll also say that the last thing we need is another racial domination. Back with 2E everyone played an elf or an elven subrace in most cases because of "The Complete Book Of Elves" (jokingly referred to as "Mein Alf" by some in a hitleresque parody, THE manual of obvious racial superiority >:) ) gave them so much HAMSTER ranging from their manifestation bonuses to charisma, to bonus "cultural" NWPs, to some of the most awesome kits (like Bladesinger, and a personal favorite... Spell Filcher which let you disarm MAGICAL traps), to a whole section on elven archery and tricks elves (and only elves) could learn to do with bows if I remember. Why be anything else? With 3E they got rid of level limits (which people ignored anyway, making those special abillities an issue... not to mention that few people played to the level where level limits became an issue given how easy it was to get canon raises up to the epic levels if the GM wanted you to keep using the same character), and decided to give humans a skill point bonus and a single feat of choice, given that not all feats are created equal (lol) it rapidly became a case where seemingly 99% of all 3E characters were humans, which I suppose makes a degree of sense in human dominated fantasy worlds, but after the novelty of not having every party be made up of elven subraces wore off, I got a little tired of it. It just got bland. I kind of thought the solution back with 2E was to pad up some of the other races a bit more for cultural reasons, and also give humans similar kinds of bonuses from region and land of origin as a canon thing as opposed to optional fodder... but instead they dumbed it down, and turned it into "Humans and Hillocks" as opposed to "Elves and Elms", I can't remember the last time I ever saw a "traditional" adventuring party of great racial diversity.
At any rate the point is that leaving the races with "default" attributes as opposed to allowing changes is probably a good idea as it will spark more diversity. This might bug some people who want to know for sure there is a "best" race, but to me that defeats the purpose. It would be nice if Neverwinter didn't turn into a cookiecutter race/class thing quite to the same extent as WoW (when you mostly see people moving away from ideal combos just to be differant or goof off).
I'd like to think Cryptic/PWE learned their lesson from STO here. Fly through the galaxy some time and take a look at what races you see. Notice the distinct lack of say... Tellarites... in the hands of players. Sometimes you see a generally neglected alien species someone made to be differant, but that's few and far between. I've never seen an actual population breakdown, but I'd actually guess the most popular species is the generic "build your own alien" because they are the easiest to min-max due to the versatility inherant in being able to pick pretty much anything from the racial abillities/bonuses list.... which seems to be pretty similar to what people want humans to be (again).
where have they hidden the info on what versatile and the other revealed racial effects actually do?
They have it inside a trapped chest with many mimics and a gelatanous cube as a trap somewhere in cryptic. I am gathering adventurers and a good rogue to break into their cryptic crypt(read office) and steal the information from there.
I was there yesterday attempting it and I will be there tomorrow, where will you be?
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zarkaz123Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Yeah, all the + stats on races and the racials seem to make class choices limited. The human looks to have the best racial for a Guardian Fighter and the bloodhunt from a Tiefling seems useless for a Guardian Fighter, that saddens me because I really want to be a Tiefling Guardian Fighter but I am worried people would put shame on me for not being a human because of the racial .
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited January 2013
Do not forget that Wisdom is also an important stat for certain (guardian) fighter builds in the PnP of 4th edition.
Certain class/race combination for example, get a damage bonus based on wisdom modifier on certain abilities. (shield Bash for dwarves for example)
We don't know yet how the game mechanics will be translated from PnP to Videogame. At least not in such a detail to allow us to draw any conclusion on "which race is more suited for".
Besides, Dwarves are getting +2CON as well for sure, then we have to see if they get +2 WIS or choice between +2STR and +2WIS, and we have to see what their racial ability will be. It could be something as good, if not better, than versatile defense (what does it do by the way? xD) for a guardian fighter build.
Comments
I laughed very hard at this.
My take is that drizzt and basically all good drows are confused teen emo-people who want to cry every time they cut others.
Drizzt, "I was cutting the chicken in the kitchen the other day. I blah blah blah... and my mascara was destroyed..."
Evil drows are the ones who are "sane" At least they are doing what they are supposed to do.
What am I to do if a troll comes to my home tomorrow and announce he won't troll anymore? I will still burn it anyways.
p.s. Regarding tieflings(the name of ritual was bloodmoon and many innocent were killed), you have to remember that they belong to nobility. So even if they are very poor, they will b self-reliant and proud. Also, they are the only race whose ancestors fought on footing against the great draon (was it gold?) who commanded willing dragonborn soldiers(not slaves). Thus their achievements are nothing to scoff off.
Even dragonborn respect Tieflings.
It kind of sets Bahamut's power level at equal with Asmodeus.
Yes there is no problem with any race with any class, like they did with 3e, and the penalties are removed. Also, the Tiefling has an Int bonus. So do Eladrin but I don't know if that will be a race in this MMO (and likely not at release if so.)
If this ends up being a flopper like age of conan I think adding classes will be the least of their conserns, but I personally high hopes for this game and barbs and rangers will likely be the first on the list.
And you missed the reference. Did you know Adventurers had parties? I...love...parties!
He has got Francis on the keyboard typing for him while truth dictates. Ofcourse he beat you to it, DDO or not.
EDIT: lol found a crazy thing while typing - ....while truth dictates truth.
(lol I feel kinda like a bard who just failed his performance check...)
It's Mr Dodohead silly!
Elf +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Half Elf +2 Con, +2 Cha
The half elf seems a disconnect it gets the human con bonus and out of the blue gets a cha bonus gains little from the elf parent imo it should be +1 Con, +1 Dex, +1 wis. Gains a bit from each race but does not overshadow either parent species.
Dwarf typically is the species that gets the constitution bonus so not sure what will happen with them.
Humans are very versitile and can be quite different they should have a +2 bonus on any one stat.
Oh! I never thought anything could ever compete with Francis in hu... um... pushing a button repeatedly (while hugging the keyboard)
Stat-wise, so far they are perfectly in line with the first iterations of the 4th edition rules. (Some races got an option later on to chose one of the stat bonus between two alternative, for example dwarves can decide to get +2 str instead of +2 wis).
As for humans, they decided to go with Constitution because it's the stat that it's useful with every class, they have just removed the choice component. (Humans can get +2 in one stat of their choice in the PnP)
If they stick to this, Dwarves will get +2 con and +2 wis, Tiefling +2dex and +2int, ecc...
But I wouldn't read too much into this, it's possible that this could be changed in later development stages to reflect better the latest PnP 4th edition rules.
Really do hope they change back to giving us the choice of +2 to any for humans. Making it +2 to con seems very out of line with the human description and the whole species adaptability focus.
I really don't see any reason for them to arbitrarily choose one stats like this, there's nothing OP about it.
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Stat selection has generally been a problem in the character generation in other games, with people getting all POed if they feel like they chose the wrong stat and need to re-roll over it, due to later development in the game changing the value of one stat or another, desicians about diminishing returns, etc.... I've noticed that most games won't let you choose any kind of attribues during character creation anymore, so by going in this direction Neverwinter is kind of just being par for the course nowadays.
It WOULD be nice if you could choose some of these stats, but at the same time if someone finds themself putting +2 int into their human wizard, only to find they modify the game later to reduce the impact of intelligence at high levels compared to other attributes, due to game balance fixes, all of a sudden having that +2 stat in something else where it's give a better return could become a big issue, putting a long-term character at a disadvantage compared to one that rolled under the "new" system and also was maxed out.
I'll also say that the last thing we need is another racial domination. Back with 2E everyone played an elf or an elven subrace in most cases because of "The Complete Book Of Elves" (jokingly referred to as "Mein Alf" by some in a hitleresque parody, THE manual of obvious racial superiority >:) ) gave them so much HAMSTER ranging from their manifestation bonuses to charisma, to bonus "cultural" NWPs, to some of the most awesome kits (like Bladesinger, and a personal favorite... Spell Filcher which let you disarm MAGICAL traps), to a whole section on elven archery and tricks elves (and only elves) could learn to do with bows if I remember. Why be anything else? With 3E they got rid of level limits (which people ignored anyway, making those special abillities an issue... not to mention that few people played to the level where level limits became an issue given how easy it was to get canon raises up to the epic levels if the GM wanted you to keep using the same character), and decided to give humans a skill point bonus and a single feat of choice, given that not all feats are created equal (lol) it rapidly became a case where seemingly 99% of all 3E characters were humans, which I suppose makes a degree of sense in human dominated fantasy worlds, but after the novelty of not having every party be made up of elven subraces wore off, I got a little tired of it. It just got bland. I kind of thought the solution back with 2E was to pad up some of the other races a bit more for cultural reasons, and also give humans similar kinds of bonuses from region and land of origin as a canon thing as opposed to optional fodder... but instead they dumbed it down, and turned it into "Humans and Hillocks" as opposed to "Elves and Elms", I can't remember the last time I ever saw a "traditional" adventuring party of great racial diversity.
At any rate the point is that leaving the races with "default" attributes as opposed to allowing changes is probably a good idea as it will spark more diversity. This might bug some people who want to know for sure there is a "best" race, but to me that defeats the purpose. It would be nice if Neverwinter didn't turn into a cookiecutter race/class thing quite to the same extent as WoW (when you mostly see people moving away from ideal combos just to be differant or goof off).
I'd like to think Cryptic/PWE learned their lesson from STO here. Fly through the galaxy some time and take a look at what races you see. Notice the distinct lack of say... Tellarites... in the hands of players. Sometimes you see a generally neglected alien species someone made to be differant, but that's few and far between. I've never seen an actual population breakdown, but I'd actually guess the most popular species is the generic "build your own alien" because they are the easiest to min-max due to the versatility inherant in being able to pick pretty much anything from the racial abillities/bonuses list.... which seems to be pretty similar to what people want humans to be (again).
+2 for human for any bonus stat!
"This is spart..."
*nobody to kick. Goes outside looking for a person and a well*
They have it inside a trapped chest with many mimics and a gelatanous cube as a trap somewhere in cryptic. I am gathering adventurers and a good rogue to break into their cryptic crypt(read office) and steal the information from there.
I was there yesterday attempting it and I will be there tomorrow, where will you be?
Certain class/race combination for example, get a damage bonus based on wisdom modifier on certain abilities. (shield Bash for dwarves for example)
We don't know yet how the game mechanics will be translated from PnP to Videogame. At least not in such a detail to allow us to draw any conclusion on "which race is more suited for".
Besides, Dwarves are getting +2CON as well for sure, then we have to see if they get +2 WIS or choice between +2STR and +2WIS, and we have to see what their racial ability will be. It could be something as good, if not better, than versatile defense (what does it do by the way? xD) for a guardian fighter build.