oops! pressed post before explaining. In 4e, Asmodeus shares his power as a god. So a warlock of Asmodeus is an invoker and a divine - evil one though.
All warlocks(infernal) are thus contractee of lower class devils.
So where to begin...
"Take a beak, I can explain this."
*the truthseeker character himself just took over the words! I'm in...shock.*
"You think Greenwood and Elminster are the only pair who do this? Trust me, I feel..like it's important I explain this one."
*It's yours...I'm...out of words...."
"I heard the words like a voice here. If what I can comprehend, you see them as magic text on a glass parchment or scrying screen. I will now continue this expert discussion."
*Ahem*
"A warlock makes binding pacts with whatever source they know and choose. Besides the infernal pact, they can do so with the Fey, the Far Realm Stars, the Dark (which may or may not be connected to the Spider Queen,) the sorcerer-king (on some world I know only as Athas,) the Vestiges of long dead beings like spirits or former primordial powers, or even be a special summoning type of warlock that calls forth creatures or magically bonded weapons (also known as Binders or Hexblades respectively.) Since those who choose the infernal pact actually make their deal with Devils or other sources of that plane, rather than getting a deal with Azmodeous directly, their power source is arcane, not divine.
*His look is troubled as if saying that name...disturbed something*
"I'm getting a whispered message that some deity is not pleased with the original commentor's answer of "Gimped" and *points to a follower of Selune* that one has been "selected" as an example to show the different power...examples?! *quickly whispers out a protection ward* I'm....I'm not comfortable with this discussion any more and stopping right here!
*Is about to warn the poor soul when...A whispered chuckling is heard slowly increasing until it clearly is a booming [and very evil] laughter.
No being is seen, but words are said aloud as if "somebody" is there. There is no question as to the Devilish taint in the air.*
"Foolish mortal, do you think I need your consent to continue?! I have enough time for a few 'demonstrations' before some...lapdog of the holy stops this in my Master's name! Observe...stick around...I insist!"
*The Sage is suddenly found himself held, rooted to his location...a feeling of terror begins to build.*
"Now..."
*A Teifling Warlock just appears, clearly a infernal pact boon, and the triangular symbols on his exterior robes, shows no question who his ultimate master is. *
"This is the Infernal Moon Curse Warlock Power...we found the irony...delicious"
*The Warlock aims his ruby-red rod at the unsuspecting target. The shimmer of pale, ghostly silver envelops the Selunite and lifts him up into the air. Its sinister radiance seeps into his body, a strange and deadly poison as he is held immobile.*
"See, not even fire....to continue..."
*The Warlock vanishes and is instantly replaced with a human cleric garbed with the same symbol on her scale armor, holding up her holy symbol as a cylinder of fire engulfs the poor other immobile Selunite*
"That is a cleric and that is Flame Strike. While she is ...permitted to gain power directly from my master, most people of other so-called gods get their powers granted by lowly divine servants and never directly get the glory of the true divine, let alone the magnificence of the Lord of Nexxus! But...we should continue...not much time left before I must kill your arriving high priests and our examples will be done, as will your life and the Moonie by then of course."
*The citizens of Neverwinter are running off in a panic, some obviously running to the watch and a couple of others rushing up to the top of the Halls of Justice for the priests known to be nearby.*
"Finally, the invoker"
*The cleric vanishes to be instantly replaced with a Eladrin male wearing red and black colored chainmail with that symbol on it.
"This one is our Master Asmodeous's Favored Souls. These and only these blessed few are chosen to channel a divine part of his granted power, but not his direct divinity itself. To show what happens to those who think they know of our ways and how to stop us like you did once with the Ashmadai here, allow us to end our demonstration with Seal of the Heretic!"
*He marks his Selunite foe with a divine brand, bringing the wrathful eyes of the gods upon him. Somehow the person has fallen yet is still alive, but if he was not vulnerable before, he is especially now. The invoker frowns as he notices the truthseeker somehow resisted and was not also marked or even hit at all. Before he can react, a spatial lock goes off, severing his connection with his proxy and an impossibly placed yet only affecting him ice storm goes off and leaving him prone and dying. A horrible-sounding Celestial word is heard spoken and a previously invisible archfiend is suddenly revealed screaming in anguish or frustration as it looks like it is ripped back to the hellworld it came from. Only then is a wizard in simple red clothing (and matching red pointy hat), a long white beard and staff seen walking up to the nearly downed Selunite. A blue-silver energy is seen shooting from his hands yet it does no damage, but heals him, as he revives and simply runs off in abject terror.
The old man waves his hand, and the trruthseeker is no longer held. He makes a face and the old wizard snaps his fingers, for which truth is uncertain what he just did to him. It is now he whose mouth is open in shock as he is stunned beyond words whom he sees before him. Saying only what the dumbfounded mind could respond to when meeting somebody as epic as this man (or is it exarch of the fallen goddess now, who can say,) he foolishly mutters,*
"I...thought you were an ash wraith or mind-hopping or something?"
The elder wizard slightly smiles and says in his famous baritone voice
"Not anymore. It is wise not to invoke the gods names, even if they rarely respond. Fortunately, I have learned about some arch-fiends before on their own Hell-realm. But the word of his True Name has changed yet again, so be warned if used to invoke his banishment again. More will be revealed to you at the Sundering when she is ready to fully return....in whatever form you are in-remembering or not-seeker of truth."
*And with that...Elminster vanishes.. The truthseeker finds his clothing and items cleaned (including his undergarmnts) by he now understands what was the prestidigitation cantrip power.
Of course, the militia and high Clergy arrive minutes too late and truthseeker explains (leaving out the part about talking interdimensionaly) of an arch-devil decided to make an example out of some clergy one of whose member insulted his god's power, and please don't say that devil deity's name.....*
And my keyboard again works! I don't know how Ed does it, that was terrifying! And he claims his wizard actually shows up next to him!
After all the ruckus, the Selunite priest takes out his mobile and calls Selune to beam him up. But then Asmodeus tries to stop him. He hands him the mobile phone.
Selune: "You know, I know the true name - of your previous master He Who Was. I am oldest entity in the planes, so obviously you know I am not bluffing."
Asmodeus: "Eh??? Wait! That is other Asmodeus. I am the Asmodeus of Forgotten Realms..."
Selune: "You think it matters? You have been naughty!"
Asmodeus: "Ah! Sorry I apologise..."
Selune: "Now put my cleric on the phone..."
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Reading a few more posts, I wonder if crypticmapolis was misunderstood by many. He didn't actually gave a lot of information - nor some groundbreaking feature, just a confirmation of a few things.
For example I read somewhere someone talking about mounted combat(?) which would certainly not be there actually. Attacking from mount is considered in a few more game and is mostly a cosmetic factor - first strike(not very effective) and then mount disappears.
The only main thing he said was PvP foundry maps, PvP being group Vs group and confirmation of skills which would be used as gathering things.
I wonder if many people might have misread or misunderstood his words and then later may feel disappointed and betrayed.
Nah it was me that mentioned mounted combat and I just said it in passing, mapolis was talking about being auto-dismounted when you take a certain amount of dmg.
Have you ever played Mount and Blade?
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
More will be revealed to you at the Sundering when she is ready to fully return....in whatever form you are in-remembering or not-seeker of truth.
*the truthseeker*
"I don't understand....my form...she is ready...but...nothing makes sense what was said...and how was I so easily found out from a communication ritual? *scrying*
Oh no! The far-place ritual communication, it...weakens the fabric of realities, allowing others to listen and travel more easily between dimensions....what did I do?! I could have caused....I'm sorry narrator, we cannot communicate here again like this until I learn how to ward against it, maybe I never can!" *A loud click is heard then silence*
And I have my "fourth wall" returned to me. That's good. I have no idea how to explain off-topic posting to him. But even after that, I still look forward to whatever the warlock class is, provided they stay on their side of reality of course!
... I still look forward to whatever the warlock class is, provided they stay on their side of reality course!
Yeah, Fey and the new one (was it star?) pact would be interesting too. Invoker is also basically a warlock, kinda unfair because they don't need to damn the soul. The words of power invoker says are not meant to be said by mortals so he/she gets damaged everytime they say those words (so being M (from s&m) may be a requirement for invoker)
However, another question arises - how many of the new classes will we see. Would devs prefer to add old classes or new classes?
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denkasaebaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Warlock is a gimp class in 4e? Probably i've played another game...
Oh, gimp in a "fluffy" way Ok.
Dilige, et quod vis fac (Love, and do what you will)
St. Augustinus
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leandra26Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited December 2012
I'm not concerned at all. I've never felt like I was punished in STO for not shelling out money. So there are lock boxes -- it's a complete non-issue because there's nothing inside them that you "need", and if people feel compelled to spend money on keys, well, that's their own decision. I've bought a couple things from STO since they went FTP, namely more bag space and some extra duty officers, but I would've been fine without those things as well. Overall I think the system they have in place is pretty fair, and would be happy if the one in Neverwinter is along the same lines.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I'm not concerned at all. I've never felt like I was punished in STO for not shelling out money. So there are lock boxes -- it's a complete non-issue because there's nothing inside them that you "need", and if people feel compelled to spend money on keys, well, that's their own decision. I've bought a couple things from STO since they went FTP, namely more bag space and some extra duty officers, but I would've been fine without those things as well. Overall I think the system they have in place is pretty fair, and would be happy if the one in Neverwinter is along the same lines.
What concerns me about STO is the ships in the store.
I don't play PvP in a game to get into a money-spending contest with other players. I've only been playing STO about a week so far, so I'm not sure this is actually the case. But just glancing at it, it sure looks a lot like buying power from the store... which Cryptic says they aren't going to do in Neverwinter.
It was also really disappointing to see such a high cost on the Foundry. That was basically my main draw to the game, but it seems like a big investment in it just to try it out. I'm not even sure I like the REST of the game to spend money on it. I sure don't want to start buying keys for the gamble boxes...
I would rather the Neverwinter team came up with better ways to draw me into the store.
When they do introduce new classes, I just hope they wont be overpowered. I have seen new classes come into games and make the original classes obsolete. For example, in DDO, the new druid class has great dps, can cast divine spells and arcane, and has a pet that levels as well. You can run any quest in that game at the highest level with only a few druids. One acts as a cleric, one a caster, and one a tank. It really is silly to have a class that is that powerful. And yes, for those that read my posts I am fed up with the new, improved bugged version of DDO. Bosses getting stuck in walls and nothing being done to fix the issue has cost them a 4 year vet of that game........... yeah Neverwinter!!!!!!!
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited January 2013
Overall I'm not "worried"* at all, because it's a F2P game, so the worst that could happen is that I don't enjoy the game and drop it right away without spending a dime.
However, there may be things that "annoy" me while playing (and might cause me to quit) and if the developers decide to take this direction, well it's their choice, can't do much about it.
If I could make a list of "possible nuiseances", it would be:
1 - Hack and slash play style where you end up spending 90% of the time destroying barrels, kegs and fighting hordes of stupid games a la Diablo/Torchlight/ecc... (Seeing the videos so far this appears to be very unlikely at the beginning, but I'm not illuding myself, those games I meantioned earlier were/are very popular and it could be possible that this game may degenerate in that direction with time)
2 - Lack of character customization from a gameplay point of view. This is a serious concern for the little to no info we have got. So far we have been only shown "pre-set" builds with little to no alternative and this has nothing in common with the vast customization of feats and powers that PnP 4th edition of Dungeons and Dragons offers.
3 - Stupid animations. Oh well, this is trivial, but playing a dwarf I'm somehow worried* we'll end up getting the most idiotic animations. Happened in WoW, Happened in Rift. In Warhammer we were cool tho, too bad the game didn't fare that well. =D
* Dang, I just contradicted myself. =O
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bitterwinterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Just re-read the original post...has anyone heard from Stormshade lately? The last post I was able to find from them was back at the beginning of September...
I'm actually not too worried at the moment as long as the game is engaging I don't really care what they sell in the store.
Stromshade's true name is King Killer Comet. It first appeared in -24000 DR. After that its known appearances have been in -3500DR, 1018 DR and lastly in 1373 DR.
A better bet will be crypticmapolis who is a planetary body revolving closer(and thus appearing more periodically, though a bit chaotic in its appearance too) to this realms known as forgotten forums.
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bitterwinterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Yes sometimes I feel we are the forgotten forums ....thankfully mapolis able to visit when his schedule allows:)
The thing is I could spend hours/days/heck even years just using the Foundry they have developed for this game and get all the satisfaction from NW that I desire, and then uploading my results from that process to see if anyone else wants to play my adventures, and never really play the game except to test my mods and I could get enough out of NW to call it a complete success just from that.
The thing is I could spend hours/days/heck even years just using the Foundry they have developed for this game and get all the satisfaction from NW that I desire, and then uploading my results from that process to see if anyone else wants to play my adventures, and never really play the game except to test my mods and I could get enough out of NW to call it a complete success just from that.
I plan mostly the same thing, with limited forays to game to say hi to friends. However, cryptic has data showing that people like us are rare and the total people who make content are less than 1% with 0.5% producing "good content" (read that as maps which are not just for exploits or quick completion).
Hence they are willing put out a red carpet so creators can produce maps and that percentage increases to something around 5%(they hope) instead of such a low number.
p.s. you guessed it. Numbers are for realms of imagination. However, I believe they are quite close to real numbers.
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alsarothMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I just hope it doesn't release at the same time as Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), since I'm planning on playing both of them.
"A rare display of intelligence, undoubtedly fleeting." - Edwin Odesseiron
I just hope it doesn't release at the same time as Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), since I'm planning on playing both of them.
Seeing that ESO hasn't even bothered with a beta sign up, i really don't see that happening and am pretty sure that game wont even see the day of light until 2014 IMO
syfylisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I only hope that devs will give all forum users access to beta. People do write a lot of usefull stuf here and if some people miss beta it will be really bad manner.
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited January 2013
Meh, quite frankly I never understood the concept of "closed beta with NDA" for customers. This is 2013 and beta testing should just be open for promotional/stress server purposes, all the serious testing should be done internally in the alpha builds.
And anyway the NDA is never respected, someone ends up leaking on a third party site sooner or later.
Meh, quite frankly I never understood the concept of "closed beta with NDA" for customers. This is 2013 and beta testing should just be open for promotional/stress server purposes, all the serious testing should be done internally in the alpha builds.
I agree that an MMO does need a lot of stress tests. Many has been the MMO to launch without enough of one that the developer proves to not have a clue as to what to expect on opening day. How many MMOs have suffered major stress crashes? However, not all stages of beta testing are for stress, but to make sure that systems work as intended. Some think they can have an actual influence over development by being in Beta. But experience has taught me that all the devs generally are interested in is knowing whether the systems they design actually work, not whether or not they need to take the mechanic back to the concept stage.
This is why I tend to refuse to shut up when people say "Wait for beta before whining." At beta, it is too late. Heck, these days, once an MMO is announced, it is typically too late.
And anyway the NDA is never respected, someone ends up leaking on a third party site sooner or later.
If someone wants to risk that the warnings about legal action being taken are true, they can feel free to do so. Granted, it's would be pretty stupid for a MMO developer to file such a lawsuit. Especially TODAY's MMO developers. They would have to work really hard to prove to a judge that the alleged leaker revealed some sort of trade secret, considering that every new MMO to come out is really a rehashing of whatever MMO is the current industry favorite. It's not like the industry actuall has a set of balls and is willing to actually be innovative. The most Cryptic has bragging rights on is the Foundry, and they've pretty much gone public with it already. Everything else looks to be typical MMO mechanics with a Forgotten Realms skin stretched over it.
But for a Free to Play game, where frankly their money will come from not what the game launches with, but rather, what they deliver after launch, there's really no need to have an open beta. They can just launch whenever they are ready for large numbers to start playing. Even if there are bugs (as if there won't be), it's not like anyone can say they are paying for buggy software. The download will be free, the gameplay will be free, even the content will be free. So I really see no point in dragging development out. As soon as the systems are ready to be exposed to external individuals, I say let the game begin.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
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k44mosMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
If that happens, you will lose a lot of customers and potential customers due to extremely bad reviews.
Nobody wants to play a buggy game. That's why they are taking their time.
The game will be buggy no matter what... I'm just saying, that when they get the systems to the point where they are ready for what normally would be an OPEN Beta, they might as well just call it launch. Because the idea of an open beta is to let as many people in for final testing as they can. The game itself will not see many changes at open beta. It's primarily tweaking everything so that the server stats stable. Oh there's bug fixing. But that goes on after launch. And I have yet to play an MMO that didn't launch with a commercial box sale, and a subscription fee to boot, that wasn't riddled with bugs.
So at the point where they are ready to open the server to a wide population of players, this MMO which will have absolutely no preliminary monetary requirements, it might as well be launched.
There should be closed beta for actual testing. But face it. How many people join an open beta just to test stuff. No. They join it because they are tired of waiting to play the game.
As far as I am concerned, if Cryptic actually addresses the bugs people report instead of leaving them ever on the back burner (there are still issues in STO that have been on file as bugs since launch nearly three YEARS ago. Same can be said for most MMOs, though. Even the ones that have a subscription.
So really, I am not so concerned about quality assurance. Because there really is no such thing if a developer cannot be bothered to fix the bugs that get reported. So like I said, as far as I am concerned, once internal testing and a limited closed beta are concluded to make sure everything works as much as intended as any other MMO that has ever launched, then there is no need to hold it back anymore... Just call it launch.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Haha, if you want to see "the forgotten forums" go check out the Champions Online forums. You guys have it good here.
You guys at least have a game, we have none
Although recently we have been invaded by devs who shower on this planet like meteors - we now have two active devs introduction here and three devs who introduced themselves and then went AWOL. So we don't need to ponder over how many devs does NW have as there are definitely 7+ we can count by name {and probably much more}
Meh, quite frankly I never understood the concept of "closed beta with NDA" for customers. This is 2013 and beta testing should just be open for promotional/stress server purposes, all the serious testing should be done internally in the alpha builds.
And anyway the NDA is never respected, someone ends up leaking on a third party site sooner or later.
If they want to, they can always find out who leaked what video without anyone knowing - but probably devs want to concentrate more budget on game. I guess if they do decide to do it, it will be very easy to find out whose screen is doing rounds of internet(you see, information can be encoded visually in ever so slightest that only one with key can find it out).
I don't know legalities (though it should wholly lie with the person who signed with) but they can always take internal actions.
If they want to, they can always find out who leaked what video without anyone knowing - but probably devs want to concentrate more budget on game. I guess if they do decide to do it, it will be very easy to find out whose screen is doing rounds of internet(you see, information can be encoded visually in ever so slightest that only one with key can find it out).
I don't know legalities (though it should wholly lie with the person who signed with) but they can always take internal actions.
Well in this case they would have to look at their own people, all the major video leaks ( five or six to date) has been done by current or former PWE employees.
If they want to, they can always find out who leaked what video without anyone knowing - but probably devs want to concentrate more budget on game. I guess if they do decide to do it, it will be very easy to find out whose screen is doing rounds of internet(you see, information can be encoded visually in ever so slightest that only one with key can find it out).
I don't know legalities (though it should wholly lie with the person who signed with) but they can always take internal actions.
I'm not talking about video leaks by internal testers.
I'm talking about info/writeup leaks with screenshots by closed beta testers who are potential customers that get in via a promotion/event partecipation/whatever and that are still under a NDA and can't discuss about anything on the official forum. I don't know if this game will do anything like that, but for example, Mythic did it a lot with Warhammer Online, they had closed beta testing for several months where many beta testers were "event partecipants"/former DAoC players/ecc...
Needless to say, in the final months the internet was full of leaked info of Warhammer Online class abilities, skills, gear, screenshots, videos, ecc... even when the NDA was still on.
And the same happened with Rift as well.
People who don't work for the company and maybe don't even live in the same country of the company.
Good luck trying to take any action against those that has any positive effect for you as a company. You can ban the account(S) if you track down the leaker(S), but what do you gain, really? A loss of potential customers and?
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Meh, quite frankly I never understood the concept of "closed beta with NDA" for customers. This is 2013 and beta testing should just be open for promotional/stress server purposes, all the serious testing should be done internally in the alpha builds.
And anyway the NDA is never respected, someone ends up leaking on a third party site sooner or later.
Respectfully (not at you, but in general,) it's posts like this that make companies so secretive since people think beta means play preview/system loads and not game testing.
Beta has multiple purposes and it is not simply a marketing ploy when they are done to play the game. The only way to do this is to have testers sample things get their feedback and redevelop it. Now we're so interconnected, people can literally ruin a game's rep before it started, thus the legal disclosure rules we have.
I agree that an MMO does need a lot of stress tests. Many has been the MMO to launch without enough of one that the developer proves to not have a clue as to what to expect on opening day. How many MMOs have suffered major stress crashes? However, not all stages of beta testing are for stress, but to make sure that systems work as intended. Some think they can have an actual influence over development by being in Beta. But experience has taught me that all the devs generally are interested in is knowing whether the systems they design actually work, not whether or not they need to take the mechanic back to the concept stage.
This is why I tend to refuse to shut up when people say "Wait for beta before whining." At beta, it is too late. Heck, these days, once an MMO is announced, it is typically too late.
If someone wants to risk that the warnings about legal action being taken are true, they can feel free to do so. Granted, it's would be pretty stupid for a MMO developer to file such a lawsuit. Especially TODAY's MMO developers. They would have to work really hard to prove to a judge that the alleged leaker revealed some sort of trade secret, considering that every new MMO to come out is really a rehashing of whatever MMO is the current industry favorite. It's not like the industry actuall has a set of balls and is willing to actually be innovative. The most Cryptic has bragging rights on is the Foundry, and they've pretty much gone public with it already. Everything else looks to be typical MMO mechanics with a Forgotten Realms skin stretched over it.
But for a Free to Play game, where frankly their money will come from not what the game launches with, but rather, what they deliver after launch, there's really no need to have an open beta. They can just launch whenever they are ready for large numbers to start playing. Even if there are bugs (as if there won't be), it's not like anyone can say they are paying for buggy software. The download will be free, the gameplay will be free, even the content will be free. So I really see no point in dragging development out. As soon as the systems are ready to be exposed to external individuals, I say let the game begin.
Both Cryptic and PWE have made games that have separate stress or load tests than their open beta.
On the promotional side this is when they promote the game and advertise "stress test weekends." This does not always bode so well if other issues are not properly addressed, trust me (anybody remember RaiderZ and the spammers for example?)
But yes, a lot of testing does need to be done internally (for the sake of this posting, I am including closed beta testing if done under an NDA as internal,) before the general public is shown the game as (again in general not pointing fingers here) many people are clueless as to not understanding the game is not ready for launch when in a beta and will simply post/tweet/unlike a game thinking it's launched and this is some massive preview party.
Before the advent of social media connectivity it was more... manageable. Now, it's not. I've all but given up trying to educate the beta differences, but if I stop, the ignorance wins.
Regarding leaks/legal action, advising the publisher is liable if they keep it deters many places from testing this and if a game company asks a location to remove confidential company information, I have yet to see a serious refusal for the big players to do so, nor has anybody litigated this to the best of my knowledge. Trust me when I say, if Cryptic/PWE noticed any private leaked info from players under NDA, they have already contacted the locations and they have removed it. (If anybody wants to make specific examples for this otherwise, please do and make sure you give locations and URLs if online )
The game will be buggy no matter what... I'm just saying, that when they get the systems to the point where they are ready for what normally would be an OPEN Beta, they might as well just call it launch. Because the idea of an open beta is to let as many people in for final testing as they can. The game itself will not see many changes at open beta. It's primarily tweaking everything so that the server stats stable. Oh there's bug fixing. But that goes on after launch. And I have yet to play an MMO that didn't launch with a commercial box sale, and a subscription fee to boot, that wasn't riddled with bugs.
So at the point where they are ready to open the server to a wide population of players, this MMO which will have absolutely no preliminary monetary requirements, it might as well be launched.
There should be closed beta for actual testing. But face it. How many people join an open beta just to test stuff. No. They join it because they are tired of waiting to play the game.
As far as I am concerned, if Cryptic actually addresses the bugs people report instead of leaving them ever on the back burner (there are still issues in STO that have been on file as bugs since launch nearly three YEARS ago. Same can be said for most MMOs, though. Even the ones that have a subscription.
[snip due to 10 k limit]
You might want and finish that sentence after "back burner" and parenthesis there. You mention a STO issue which was manhandled by a certain distributor with the letter A then and taken over by PWE which I bet is likely they have had the Cryptic company focus on Neverwinter primarily (whether the STO issues if publicly addressed as bugs will be addressed after this NWO release will be handled or left for another year we will see.)
In regards to Open Beta and stress testing, it will be handled very most likely as a separate stage and not in the Open beta, but Stress Testing will be also likely to some degree in the end of Open beta also. I can't say if you are saying Cryptic or all companies now should call it launch when they get to the point of Open beta, so I'll just list this:
Originally Posted by crypticmapolisWe intend to have a long, multi-stage beta process that will test many aspects of the game. Cryptic has always valued player input, and PWE has given us the time and resources to execute the beta cycle we've always wanted to do. I should also note that the Foundry will have a similar, but somewhat separate beta cycle.
It's certainly not going to be a last-minute marketing-only beta.
Bold text by me not Mapolis.
And trust me, internal testing when done by a company of this resolve would be thorough and make sure those lucky enough to have been selected will test those concepts and take their feedback very seriously (even "back to the drawing board" if needed I bet.) As for redoing entire concepts, that likely is Alpha's development stage (I really can only enter 10K characters so I will skip here what development stages are primarily for and how they likely relate to an MMO.) But if a feature developed and small scale tested ended up tanking in regular scale, they would alter it even in Beta.
I'm not talking about video leaks by internal testers.
I'm talking about info/writeup leaks with screenshots by closed beta testers who are potential customers that get in via a promotion/event partecipation/whatever and that are still under a NDA and can't discuss about anything on the official forum. I don't know if this game will do anything like that, but for example, Mythic did it a lot with Warhammer Online, they had closed beta testing for several months where many beta testers were "event partecipants"/former DAoC players/ecc...
Needless to say, in the final months the internet was full of leaked info of Warhammer Online class abilities, skills, gear, screenshots, videos, ecc... even when the NDA was still on.
And the same happened with Rift as well.
People who don't work for the company and maybe don't even live in the same country of the company.
Good luck trying to take any action against those that has any positive effect for you as a company. You can ban the account(S) if you track down the leaker(S), but what do you gain, really? A loss of potential customers and?
See my reply earlier. The threat of legal action to the HOSTS of NDA makes most serious publishers obey any requests to pull content let alone legal cease and desist warnings. Players foolish enough to think they are not going to be traced back often are.
So know this game like all games will have problems and bugs we will find, but Cryptic under PWE does care enough to try and be thorough if they can.
I hope this can alleviate some worries, but understand from past histories they have to overcome under...A...if it does not.
Despite any leaks that can and do happen it's imperative that leaks are stopped. Leakers are either lost customers to begin with (for not understanding what the stages are normally) or the importance of the NDA can be reinforced to any person who is leaking information with joy.
The bottom line is throughout the Alpha and Closed Beta stages many functions are and will continue to be subject to change for balancing purposes. Things people complain about will be changed and adjusted. Many features are there as bare bones and are simply there as placeholders until Devs set aside time to polish each feature.
The NDA exists for two huge reasons...
1. If players are in Closed Beta expecting a finished product they are dead wrong. If you think the game is a pile of garbage because it's not finished so be it, then you're already a lost customer. However it isn't by any means good for you to be bashing the game because of this that or the other thing which simply isn't added yet driving away customers before they even try the game because of information some hot-head ranted about during Closed Beta.
2. Even if a person under an NDA is raving about all the features, as I said before, every feature is subject to change until Open Beta. Even though I may love something others might not (or it might be overpowered and need tweeking) and therefore give players false expectations when the game either enters Open Beta or Launches. The NDA protects information which isn't finalized from being 'promised' or expected by the general public.
If you violate the NDA expect to be tossed out the door or have, at the very least, a very serious warning. It's there for good reasons and shouldn't be taken lightly.
Comments
So where to begin...
"Take a beak, I can explain this."
*the truthseeker character himself just took over the words! I'm in...shock.*
"You think Greenwood and Elminster are the only pair who do this? Trust me, I feel..like it's important I explain this one."
*It's yours...I'm...out of words...."
"I heard the words like a voice here. If what I can comprehend, you see them as magic text on a glass parchment or scrying screen. I will now continue this expert discussion."
*Ahem*
"A warlock makes binding pacts with whatever source they know and choose. Besides the infernal pact, they can do so with the Fey, the Far Realm Stars, the Dark (which may or may not be connected to the Spider Queen,) the sorcerer-king (on some world I know only as Athas,) the Vestiges of long dead beings like spirits or former primordial powers, or even be a special summoning type of warlock that calls forth creatures or magically bonded weapons (also known as Binders or Hexblades respectively.) Since those who choose the infernal pact actually make their deal with Devils or other sources of that plane, rather than getting a deal with Azmodeous directly, their power source is arcane, not divine.
*His look is troubled as if saying that name...disturbed something*
"I'm getting a whispered message that some deity is not pleased with the original commentor's answer of "Gimped" and *points to a follower of Selune* that one has been "selected" as an example to show the different power...examples?! *quickly whispers out a protection ward* I'm....I'm not comfortable with this discussion any more and stopping right here!
*Is about to warn the poor soul when...A whispered chuckling is heard slowly increasing until it clearly is a booming [and very evil] laughter.
No being is seen, but words are said aloud as if "somebody" is there. There is no question as to the Devilish taint in the air.*
"Foolish mortal, do you think I need your consent to continue?! I have enough time for a few 'demonstrations' before some...lapdog of the holy stops this in my Master's name! Observe...stick around...I insist!"
*The Sage is suddenly found himself held, rooted to his location...a feeling of terror begins to build.*
"Now..."
*A Teifling Warlock just appears, clearly a infernal pact boon, and the triangular symbols on his exterior robes, shows no question who his ultimate master is. *
"This is the Infernal Moon Curse Warlock Power...we found the irony...delicious"
*The Warlock aims his ruby-red rod at the unsuspecting target. The shimmer of pale, ghostly silver envelops the Selunite and lifts him up into the air. Its sinister radiance seeps into his body, a strange and deadly poison as he is held immobile.*
"See, not even fire....to continue..."
*The Warlock vanishes and is instantly replaced with a human cleric garbed with the same symbol on her scale armor, holding up her holy symbol as a cylinder of fire engulfs the poor other immobile Selunite*
"That is a cleric and that is Flame Strike. While she is ...permitted to gain power directly from my master, most people of other so-called gods get their powers granted by lowly divine servants and never directly get the glory of the true divine, let alone the magnificence of the Lord of Nexxus! But...we should continue...not much time left before I must kill your arriving high priests and our examples will be done, as will your life and the Moonie by then of course."
*The citizens of Neverwinter are running off in a panic, some obviously running to the watch and a couple of others rushing up to the top of the Halls of Justice for the priests known to be nearby.*
"Finally, the invoker"
*The cleric vanishes to be instantly replaced with a Eladrin male wearing red and black colored chainmail with that symbol on it.
"This one is our Master Asmodeous's Favored Souls. These and only these blessed few are chosen to channel a divine part of his granted power, but not his direct divinity itself. To show what happens to those who think they know of our ways and how to stop us like you did once with the Ashmadai here, allow us to end our demonstration with Seal of the Heretic!"
*He marks his Selunite foe with a divine brand, bringing the wrathful eyes of the gods upon him. Somehow the person has fallen yet is still alive, but if he was not vulnerable before, he is especially now. The invoker frowns as he notices the truthseeker somehow resisted and was not also marked or even hit at all. Before he can react, a spatial lock goes off, severing his connection with his proxy and an impossibly placed yet only affecting him ice storm goes off and leaving him prone and dying. A horrible-sounding Celestial word is heard spoken and a previously invisible archfiend is suddenly revealed screaming in anguish or frustration as it looks like it is ripped back to the hellworld it came from. Only then is a wizard in simple red clothing (and matching red pointy hat), a long white beard and staff seen walking up to the nearly downed Selunite. A blue-silver energy is seen shooting from his hands yet it does no damage, but heals him, as he revives and simply runs off in abject terror.
The old man waves his hand, and the trruthseeker is no longer held. He makes a face and the old wizard snaps his fingers, for which truth is uncertain what he just did to him. It is now he whose mouth is open in shock as he is stunned beyond words whom he sees before him. Saying only what the dumbfounded mind could respond to when meeting somebody as epic as this man (or is it exarch of the fallen goddess now, who can say,) he foolishly mutters,*
"I...thought you were an ash wraith or mind-hopping or something?"
The elder wizard slightly smiles and says in his famous baritone voice
"Not anymore. It is wise not to invoke the gods names, even if they rarely respond. Fortunately, I have learned about some arch-fiends before on their own Hell-realm. But the word of his True Name has changed yet again, so be warned if used to invoke his banishment again. More will be revealed to you at the Sundering when she is ready to fully return....in whatever form you are in-remembering or not-seeker of truth."
*And with that...Elminster vanishes.. The truthseeker finds his clothing and items cleaned (including his undergarmnts) by he now understands what was the prestidigitation cantrip power.
Of course, the militia and high Clergy arrive minutes too late and truthseeker explains (leaving out the part about talking interdimensionaly) of an arch-devil decided to make an example out of some clergy one of whose member insulted his god's power, and please don't say that devil deity's name.....*
And my keyboard again works! I don't know how Ed does it, that was terrifying! And he claims his wizard actually shows up next to him!
Selune: "You know, I know the true name - of your previous master He Who Was. I am oldest entity in the planes, so obviously you know I am not bluffing."
Asmodeus: "Eh??? Wait! That is other Asmodeus. I am the Asmodeus of Forgotten Realms..."
Selune: "You think it matters? You have been naughty!"
Asmodeus: "Ah! Sorry I apologise..."
Selune: "Now put my cleric on the phone..."
Nah it was me that mentioned mounted combat and I just said it in passing, mapolis was talking about being auto-dismounted when you take a certain amount of dmg.
Have you ever played Mount and Blade?
*the truthseeker*
"I don't understand....my form...she is ready...but...nothing makes sense what was said...and how was I so easily found out from a communication ritual? *scrying*
Oh no! The far-place ritual communication, it...weakens the fabric of realities, allowing others to listen and travel more easily between dimensions....what did I do?! I could have caused....I'm sorry narrator, we cannot communicate here again like this until I learn how to ward against it, maybe I never can!" *A loud click is heard then silence*
And I have my "fourth wall" returned to me. That's good. I have no idea how to explain off-topic posting to him. But even after that, I still look forward to whatever the warlock class is, provided they stay on their side of reality of course!
Yeah, Fey and the new one (was it star?) pact would be interesting too. Invoker is also basically a warlock, kinda unfair because they don't need to damn the soul. The words of power invoker says are not meant to be said by mortals so he/she gets damaged everytime they say those words (so being M (from s&m) may be a requirement for invoker)
However, another question arises - how many of the new classes will we see. Would devs prefer to add old classes or new classes?
Oh, gimp in a "fluffy" way
St. Augustinus
What concerns me about STO is the ships in the store.
I don't play PvP in a game to get into a money-spending contest with other players. I've only been playing STO about a week so far, so I'm not sure this is actually the case. But just glancing at it, it sure looks a lot like buying power from the store... which Cryptic says they aren't going to do in Neverwinter.
It was also really disappointing to see such a high cost on the Foundry. That was basically my main draw to the game, but it seems like a big investment in it just to try it out. I'm not even sure I like the REST of the game to spend money on it. I sure don't want to start buying keys for the gamble boxes...
I would rather the Neverwinter team came up with better ways to draw me into the store.
However, there may be things that "annoy" me while playing (and might cause me to quit) and if the developers decide to take this direction, well it's their choice, can't do much about it.
If I could make a list of "possible nuiseances", it would be:
1 - Hack and slash play style where you end up spending 90% of the time destroying barrels, kegs and fighting hordes of stupid games a la Diablo/Torchlight/ecc... (Seeing the videos so far this appears to be very unlikely at the beginning, but I'm not illuding myself, those games I meantioned earlier were/are very popular and it could be possible that this game may degenerate in that direction with time)
2 - Lack of character customization from a gameplay point of view. This is a serious concern for the little to no info we have got. So far we have been only shown "pre-set" builds with little to no alternative and this has nothing in common with the vast customization of feats and powers that PnP 4th edition of Dungeons and Dragons offers.
3 - Stupid animations. Oh well, this is trivial, but playing a dwarf I'm somehow worried* we'll end up getting the most idiotic animations. Happened in WoW, Happened in Rift. In Warhammer we were cool tho, too bad the game didn't fare that well. =D
* Dang, I just contradicted myself. =O
I'm actually not too worried at the moment as long as the game is engaging I don't really care what they sell in the store.
Stromshade's true name is King Killer Comet. It first appeared in -24000 DR. After that its known appearances have been in -3500DR, 1018 DR and lastly in 1373 DR.
A better bet will be crypticmapolis who is a planetary body revolving closer(and thus appearing more periodically, though a bit chaotic in its appearance too) to this realms known as forgotten forums.
Hence they are willing put out a red carpet so creators can produce maps and that percentage increases to something around 5%(they hope) instead of such a low number.
p.s. you guessed it. Numbers are for realms of imagination. However, I believe they are quite close to real numbers.
Seeing that ESO hasn't even bothered with a beta sign up, i really don't see that happening and am pretty sure that game wont even see the day of light until 2014 IMO
Oh...sorta answered that point right there, didn't I?
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library
And anyway the NDA is never respected, someone ends up leaking on a third party site sooner or later.
I agree that an MMO does need a lot of stress tests. Many has been the MMO to launch without enough of one that the developer proves to not have a clue as to what to expect on opening day. How many MMOs have suffered major stress crashes? However, not all stages of beta testing are for stress, but to make sure that systems work as intended. Some think they can have an actual influence over development by being in Beta. But experience has taught me that all the devs generally are interested in is knowing whether the systems they design actually work, not whether or not they need to take the mechanic back to the concept stage.
This is why I tend to refuse to shut up when people say "Wait for beta before whining." At beta, it is too late. Heck, these days, once an MMO is announced, it is typically too late.
If someone wants to risk that the warnings about legal action being taken are true, they can feel free to do so. Granted, it's would be pretty stupid for a MMO developer to file such a lawsuit. Especially TODAY's MMO developers. They would have to work really hard to prove to a judge that the alleged leaker revealed some sort of trade secret, considering that every new MMO to come out is really a rehashing of whatever MMO is the current industry favorite. It's not like the industry actuall has a set of balls and is willing to actually be innovative. The most Cryptic has bragging rights on is the Foundry, and they've pretty much gone public with it already. Everything else looks to be typical MMO mechanics with a Forgotten Realms skin stretched over it.
But for a Free to Play game, where frankly their money will come from not what the game launches with, but rather, what they deliver after launch, there's really no need to have an open beta. They can just launch whenever they are ready for large numbers to start playing. Even if there are bugs (as if there won't be), it's not like anyone can say they are paying for buggy software. The download will be free, the gameplay will be free, even the content will be free. So I really see no point in dragging development out. As soon as the systems are ready to be exposed to external individuals, I say let the game begin.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Nobody wants to play a buggy game. That's why they are taking their time.
So at the point where they are ready to open the server to a wide population of players, this MMO which will have absolutely no preliminary monetary requirements, it might as well be launched.
There should be closed beta for actual testing. But face it. How many people join an open beta just to test stuff. No. They join it because they are tired of waiting to play the game.
As far as I am concerned, if Cryptic actually addresses the bugs people report instead of leaving them ever on the back burner (there are still issues in STO that have been on file as bugs since launch nearly three YEARS ago. Same can be said for most MMOs, though. Even the ones that have a subscription.
So really, I am not so concerned about quality assurance. Because there really is no such thing if a developer cannot be bothered to fix the bugs that get reported. So like I said, as far as I am concerned, once internal testing and a limited closed beta are concluded to make sure everything works as much as intended as any other MMO that has ever launched, then there is no need to hold it back anymore... Just call it launch.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
You guys at least have a game, we have none
Although recently we have been invaded by devs who shower on this planet like meteors - we now have two active devs introduction here and three devs who introduced themselves and then went AWOL. So we don't need to ponder over how many devs does NW have as there are definitely 7+ we can count by name
If they want to, they can always find out who leaked what video without anyone knowing - but probably devs want to concentrate more budget on game. I guess if they do decide to do it, it will be very easy to find out whose screen is doing rounds of internet(you see, information can be encoded visually in ever so slightest that only one with key can find it out).
I don't know legalities (though it should wholly lie with the person who signed with) but they can always take internal actions.
Well in this case they would have to look at their own people, all the major video leaks ( five or six to date) has been done by current or former PWE employees.
I'm not talking about video leaks by internal testers.
I'm talking about info/writeup leaks with screenshots by closed beta testers who are potential customers that get in via a promotion/event partecipation/whatever and that are still under a NDA and can't discuss about anything on the official forum. I don't know if this game will do anything like that, but for example, Mythic did it a lot with Warhammer Online, they had closed beta testing for several months where many beta testers were "event partecipants"/former DAoC players/ecc...
Needless to say, in the final months the internet was full of leaked info of Warhammer Online class abilities, skills, gear, screenshots, videos, ecc... even when the NDA was still on.
And the same happened with Rift as well.
People who don't work for the company and maybe don't even live in the same country of the company.
Good luck trying to take any action against those that has any positive effect for you as a company. You can ban the account(S) if you track down the leaker(S), but what do you gain, really? A loss of potential customers and?
Respectfully (not at you, but in general,) it's posts like this that make companies so secretive since people think beta means play preview/system loads and not game testing.
Beta has multiple purposes and it is not simply a marketing ploy when they are done to play the game. The only way to do this is to have testers sample things get their feedback and redevelop it. Now we're so interconnected, people can literally ruin a game's rep before it started, thus the legal disclosure rules we have.
Both Cryptic and PWE have made games that have separate stress or load tests than their open beta.
On the promotional side this is when they promote the game and advertise "stress test weekends." This does not always bode so well if other issues are not properly addressed, trust me (anybody remember RaiderZ and the spammers for example?)
But yes, a lot of testing does need to be done internally (for the sake of this posting, I am including closed beta testing if done under an NDA as internal,) before the general public is shown the game as (again in general not pointing fingers here) many people are clueless as to not understanding the game is not ready for launch when in a beta and will simply post/tweet/unlike a game thinking it's launched and this is some massive preview party.
Before the advent of social media connectivity it was more... manageable. Now, it's not. I've all but given up trying to educate the beta differences, but if I stop, the ignorance wins.
Regarding leaks/legal action, advising the publisher is liable if they keep it deters many places from testing this and if a game company asks a location to remove confidential company information, I have yet to see a serious refusal for the big players to do so, nor has anybody litigated this to the best of my knowledge. Trust me when I say, if Cryptic/PWE noticed any private leaked info from players under NDA, they have already contacted the locations and they have removed it. (If anybody wants to make specific examples for this otherwise, please do and make sure you give locations and URLs if online
You might want and finish that sentence after "back burner" and parenthesis there. You mention a STO issue which was manhandled by a certain distributor with the letter A then and taken over by PWE which I bet is likely they have had the Cryptic company focus on Neverwinter primarily (whether the STO issues if publicly addressed as bugs will be addressed after this NWO release will be handled or left for another year we will see.)
In regards to Open Beta and stress testing, it will be handled very most likely as a separate stage and not in the Open beta, but Stress Testing will be also likely to some degree in the end of Open beta also. I can't say if you are saying Cryptic or all companies now should call it launch when they get to the point of Open beta, so I'll just list this:
Bold text by me not Mapolis.
And trust me, internal testing when done by a company of this resolve would be thorough and make sure those lucky enough to have been selected will test those concepts and take their feedback very seriously (even "back to the drawing board" if needed I bet.) As for redoing entire concepts, that likely is Alpha's development stage (I really can only enter 10K characters so I will skip here what development stages are primarily for and how they likely relate to an MMO.) But if a feature developed and small scale tested ended up tanking in regular scale, they would alter it even in Beta.
See my reply earlier. The threat of legal action to the HOSTS of NDA makes most serious publishers obey any requests to pull content let alone legal cease and desist warnings. Players foolish enough to think they are not going to be traced back often are.
So know this game like all games will have problems and bugs we will find, but Cryptic under PWE does care enough to try and be thorough if they can.
I hope this can alleviate some worries, but understand from past histories they have to overcome under...A...if it does not.
Extra Credits, also gives a great Developer Point of View on playtesting.
Despite any leaks that can and do happen it's imperative that leaks are stopped. Leakers are either lost customers to begin with (for not understanding what the stages are normally) or the importance of the NDA can be reinforced to any person who is leaking information with joy.
The bottom line is throughout the Alpha and Closed Beta stages many functions are and will continue to be subject to change for balancing purposes. Things people complain about will be changed and adjusted. Many features are there as bare bones and are simply there as placeholders until Devs set aside time to polish each feature.
The NDA exists for two huge reasons...
1. If players are in Closed Beta expecting a finished product they are dead wrong. If you think the game is a pile of garbage because it's not finished so be it, then you're already a lost customer. However it isn't by any means good for you to be bashing the game because of this that or the other thing which simply isn't added yet driving away customers before they even try the game because of information some hot-head ranted about during Closed Beta.
2. Even if a person under an NDA is raving about all the features, as I said before, every feature is subject to change until Open Beta. Even though I may love something others might not (or it might be overpowered and need tweeking) and therefore give players false expectations when the game either enters Open Beta or Launches. The NDA protects information which isn't finalized from being 'promised' or expected by the general public.
If you violate the NDA expect to be tossed out the door or have, at the very least, a very serious warning. It's there for good reasons and shouldn't be taken lightly.