Most of the things you lined are ok to be set into a shop.
If it does not at all influence the power scale/balance between the players as in more survivability/damage output, I think it's fine.
As you have stated, cosmetics and others like that would be more than fine.
For the content part, give me the option of unlocking all the game through hard work and dedication if you ever plan of placing any important content in the shop.
Cash:
- cosmetics - suits, dyes, pets? (would be fun to have a Boo) etc.
- boosters (XP?! - that boosts "non-intrusive" stats (does not frack up the balance)
- regions/instances
- classes
- races
Special currency you earn ing whilst actually playing the game:
- regions/instances
- classes
- races
Give the opportunity to players to unlock important content through playing whilst also giving the option of a quick-buy and everybody will be happy with that.
You should only be able to buy only with cash those things that have absolutely no impact on the game at all or limit it or its fun.
Some other handy but not required items I could see being offered for either or both... skeleton keys perhaps? YOu know, so people other then rogues (if in the game) can open locked chests/doors. The bells of opening in DDO are one of the few consumables I actually buy from it's cash shop. Not all the time, but I get them when I have some extra points. Repair kits to fix your gear in the field (assuming gear takes damage) would also be nice. Neither are really unbalancing. One just reduces down time (or makes up for if you forget to repair stuff when you can). The other is more an optional quality of life thing for soloists.
Then again, if they don't put thieves/rogues in the game it's probable they wont have many traps or locked chests/doors either. Can't imagine D&D without rogues/thieves though. Or without traps.
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Your idea of "pay to win" with such a system then becomes "Pay OR Play to win". Course that also assumes that items from the cash shop will ensure your victory.
That's not what "pay to win" means, but it's a common misconception. Really, it's short hand for "pay to (increase expectation of a) win". It's paying real money to gain an advantage in-game. Whether the advantage is overwhelming enough to guarantee victory or small is a matter of degrees. It's "pay to win" either way. Perhaps "pay for power" is a better term.
And driving a distinction between "pay to win" and "pay or play to win" is meaningless. All games are inherently "play to win" to at least some degree, or else it isn't a game.
The question then becomes "What is more valuable to you, time spent playing or money spent" In CO it seems the current exchange is about 200 questtite (or whatever) for one zen. So then, how fast can you earn the resource? And are you willing to grind it out to get enough zen for what you want?
I do not want to answer this question when I'm playing a game. I enjoy optimizing game mechanics. It is the core of why I play games. But "pay to win" makes optimizing the game trivial. Throw as much cash at it as possible. It's now just a question of whether I'm willing to pursue that optimal solution or not (and I'm not).
is there a trading post / auction house in the game ?
anyway; all in all, the only things the game needs for me is: kick-azz gameplay, complex and varied character building, lfg tool, a lot of teamplay, social recognition/statistic after completing instances. i feel that in game like GW2 you never know whos hot and whos not in a dungeon, and i like that if well implemented.
good graphics/environement, jumping, flying. are a major plus.
That's not what "pay to win" means, but it's a common misconception. Really, it's short hand for "pay to (increase expectation of a) win". It's paying real money to gain an advantage in-game. Whether the advantage is overwhelming enough to guarantee victory or small is a matter of degrees. It's "pay to win" either way. Perhaps "pay for power" is a better term.
And driving a distinction between "pay to win" and "pay or play to win" is meaningless. All games are inherently "play to win" to at least some degree, or else it isn't a game.
It still then assumes you can't get said advantage any way other then paying money. Now, a item with THE best stats possible which is only available from a cash shop with no method of gaining currency for said cash shop other then real world money? That's pay to win. Or if you had to pay real world money to do anything of any real significance.
If there is an option to get the same benefits without paying money though, it's not 'pay to win'. In this case you're paying for the convenience of faster acquisition. Sure that might get an initial advantage, but others will eventually catch up to you.
I do not want to answer this question when I'm playing a game. I enjoy optimizing game mechanics. It is the core of why I play games. But "pay to win" makes optimizing the game trivial. Throw as much cash at it as possible. It's now just a question of whether I'm willing to pursue that optimal solution or not (and I'm not).
Fortunately from the sound of things you wont have to visit the cash shop for any content, and thus any gear. Thus the question becomes less important. You'd be debating if you want to spend money or time on the optional stuff instead. With DDO you do kind of have to make that decision since free content mostly runs out around level 10, when the level cap is currently 25 I think. CO and STO on the other hand give you all the 'main' game, and the nifty bells and whistles are paid for. Granted I personally consider freeform builds one of Champion's biggest selling points. But even before Cryptic sold out to Perfect World, even before it went free to play... I was still buying cash shop currency on occasion for the cosmetic stuff and non-combat pets.
Your mind may vary. And it's your right to disagree.
i am slightly worried in this game... especially since it looks so much clunkier/simpler than GW2. the mage looks a bit like a stuck up imo.
but then again, everything feels more slow and with only a few buttons.
maybe i'm wrong and i hope !
gameplay is where it's at. don't give us console type mash em up gameplay a la diablo 3...
also, how does this mmo company deals with bots and economy ? (i havent played their other games)
but if they manage to give me an amazing dungeon crawler coop game, with a good gameplay, and with great grouping mechanics and an easy "jump in and play right away" type game; they will win some points.
i am slightly worried in this game... especially since it looks so much clunkier/simpler than GW2. the mage looks a bit like a stuck up imo.
but then again, everything feels more slow and with only a few buttons.
maybe i'm wrong and i hope !
gameplay is where it's at. don't give us console type mash em up gameplay a la diablo 3...
also, how does this mmo company deals with bots and economy ? (i havent played their other games)
but if they manage to give me an amazing dungeon crawler coop game, with a good gameplay, and with great grouping mechanics and an easy "jump in and play right away" type game; they will win some points.
GW2 isn't a deep experience by any stretch of the imagination...I currently play GW2 (when I can force myself to log on) and have had hands on time with Neverwinter at Gencon 2012, Neverwinter isn't clunky in my opinion, no you don't have over the top rapid fire attacks but combat is more dynamic and strategic. I have no defense for the mage that resting animation has to go, but I had a blast with Neverwinter and am really looking forward to launch.
GW2 isn't a deep experience by any stretch of the imagination...I currently play GW2 (when I can force myself to log on) and have had hands on time with Neverwinter at Gencon 2012, Neverwinter isn't clunky in my opinion, no you don't have over the top rapid fire attacks but combat is more dynamic and strategic. I have no defense for the mage that resting animation has to go, but I had a blast with Neverwinter and am really looking forward to launch.
nice! happy to hear it, and also very happy to understand that the combats are more "tactic", this could be very good for the coop aspect of the game (where so many aarpg fail imo).
gameplay and character types/classes/options/races etc could mean that i would jump into this boat instead of gw2.
(and really gw2 is probably the best game i've played in years)
My only worry at this point is how long till Neverwinter succumbs to "The CO Effect". Cryptic/PWE isn't exactly putting their best foot forward in CO. Heck, the PTS for CO was updated a week ago with the upcoming winter event (which is more or less the same for 3 years running) with a couple fixes and forgot to turn the event on. Over seven days later the event still isn't on despite multiple posts stating/asking what's going on. The last major content update (like actual an zone) was Vibora Bay back in March 2010. All this is to say nothing of gross imbalances in combat, bugs, and a nearly complete lack of GM/developer presence in game or on the forums.
It's hard to be excited about NWO when it appears to only be a matter of time (as short as 2-3 years) before it's shoved in the corner to make room for the next big thing.
Oh and our Community Manager listed is Stormshade.
Those of us whom are longtime STO transplants are very familiar with Stormy. I very vividly remember Stormy say that "gaming the Exchange," and thereby directly assisting the destruction of any form of viable in-game economy in STO, was viable endgame content.
To the TC, as an STO lifer, I share your concern for how this game will be financed, since everything stated about the cash shop in this game was stated at some point about the cash shop in STO, and STO's cash shop is a far cry from "as advertised."
It's true though Blood and HAMSTER area good thing... hehe
To a certain degree. Part of what made me not buy TERA after playing the free version was the skeevy art design. Seriously, a race entirely made up of female children in short skirts (with nearly constant pedo jokes about them in the chat), and universally ludicrously revealing outfits for the adult female characters.
To a certain degree. Part of what made me not buy TERA after playing the free version was the skeevy art design. Seriously, a race entirely made up of female children in short skirts (with nearly constant pedo jokes about them in the chat), and universally ludicrously revealing outfits for the adult female characters.
Ah yea I can see where that can be a problem, like you I don't think pedophiles are something to joke about. I haven't tried Tera so don't have that experience.
We had a similar conversation in the DDO forums, I feel we should have the options for several types, armor that is skimpy but we should also have the option for more joan of arc type armor as well.
As much as I hate to admit it, from my perspective, this is an accurate statement. But i don't think they have as much of a choice anymore. PWE OWNS them. And while they had issues before the buyout, Cryptic never even looked like they were going to go down the direction they have taken on many elements. Those design directions only surfaced AFTER PWE spent $50,000,000.00 to buy Cryptic.
The thing is, it's all about business. And until PWE recovers their investment, and gains whatever profit they expect, I doubt we will see it be about anything else.
I am not slamming Cryptic here. But I can say that because they have only monetized things I have absolutely no need or overwhelming desire to spend money on, I have not spent a dime with them since before STO went F2P. Now if they released a major content pack and charged Zen for it, I'd buy that in a heartbeat. But I don't need fluff items.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
The only thing I'll say to that is the Lock-boxes are very much a Eastern Marketing Strategy. It's been said previously that it can be found throughout Asia's MMO's and is a standard part of their society.
However as accepted as it is in the east the western country's are a completely different demographic and I don't expect lock-boxes will ever be accepted as anything better than vile. It's a matter of if, not when, governments put restrictions on their sales.
However the bad tends to outshine the good, as always. Although the appearance of lockboxes seems to be the most memorable part of the PWE Purchase, the Eastern Marketing Strategy does bring a lot of great aspects with it too...such as a very strict standard of being able to beat the game for free. Although some convenience items can be argued as pay to win based on my own opinion they do not sell anything that players can't get by some other means within a some-what reasonable time.
Also there's really very, very little that Eastern Marketing does which effects the balance of the game. If you look at western marketing they're all about selling the bigger stronger swords and this just isn't even heard of in Eastern MMO's. Honestly as much as I hate some convenience sales Eastern MMO's do, nothing and I do mean nothing is as bad as selling power in a game to me.
So Neverwinter will be the first game Cryptic releases with a heavily Eastern MMO Marketing plan put into it. Lockboxes are god awful (write to your government reps if you agree) but Eastern MMO Marketing other than lockboxes are much better in my own opinion. I hope they'll show that in a true Free to Play Neverwinter.
nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
lockboxes are crapp because they are basically gambling...even potentially bordering to a scam...people will have no problem with paying for cosmecits (if you get a reasonable variety for free), xp potions and other convenience things (if you are not dependent on them) and things like character classes or races (if again you have a reasonable selection for free)...i hope they get it right...a lot of freebie devs these days are trying to **** with their customers and it almost always backfires - the gaming community has no longer any tolerance for this kind of behavior nor will they forget or forgive - alot of companies had to learn this the hard way and others will....
Although some convenience items can be argued as pay to win based on my own opinion they do not sell anything that players can't get by some other means within a some-what reasonable time.
While this is somewhat technically true, it does neglect to mention the fact that a lot of that is also based on the buying of in-game currency with real money by other players. As such, there's still a pay-to-win aspect to the whole thing.
If you look at western marketing they're all about selling the bigger stronger swords and this just isn't even heard of in Eastern MMO's.
And this is where Cryptic has screwed up with it's cash shop. In STO, half the cash shop is ships and gear that is de-facto more powerful than what is available for free in the game for the part of the game it's meant to be used for. That's "bigger, stronger swords" in a nutshell. Yeah, this was going on before PWE bought them, but PWE didn't slow it down OR stop it - if anything, it only got bigger, badder, faster and more obvious after PWE bought them. As such, I can only assume PWE clearly approves of what you call a "Western" cash shop environment wholeheartedly.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
I hate convenience items. I would prefer if there was none...but that's Eastern MMO Marketing.
As I said, paying to get faster travel or such isn't as bad to me as bigger better swords. In fact I tend to be very stringent with any consumable resources so I often end up not using any anyway. But that's me.
I do not play STO, in fact I have so little interest in Star Trek it baffles me. I have nothing against the game personally, just doesn't interest me so my knowledge of what PWE has or hasn't done for STO is beyond my knowledge...
But I do know many people consider 'different' better, and to me that's not necessarily the case. From what I have heard from STO Players is that half of them feel they became Pay to Win and Half said they held up their promise. Those which claim Pay to Win say that the items in the shop are far superior while those which defend Cryptic say they're different but not in any way better. Without playing the game I can't say how I feel about their cash shop there.
But I assure you there are two very conflicting sides to the STO argument.
However what is for sure is that they have made it all too frustrating of a grind to not pay for items...
And this is where Cryptic has screwed up with it's cash shop. In STO, half the cash shop is ships and gear that is de-facto more powerful than what is available for free in the game for the part of the game it's meant to be used for. That's "bigger, stronger swords" in a nutshell. Yeah, this was going on before PWE bought them, but PWE didn't slow it down OR stop it - if anything, it only got bigger, badder, faster and more obvious after PWE bought them. As such, I can only assume PWE clearly approves of what you call a "Western" cash shop environment wholeheartedly.
I "hope" they so want NWO to be a smash hit, that they will do what they have said numerous times recently, that Neverwinter will not be "pay to win".
I think they know how much damage would result in them going back on their word at this point. So I don't think we need concern ourselves that they might. At least not until it happens :P
Players is that half of them feel they became Pay to Win and Half said they held up their promise. Those which claim Pay to Win say that the items in the shop are far superior while those which defend Cryptic say they're different but not in any way better. Without playing the game I can't say how I feel about their cash shop there.
But I assure you there are two very conflicting sides to the STO argument.
However what is for sure is that they have made it all too frustrating of a grind to not pay for items...
The ships in the STO cash shop are de-facto better. They have superior stats than the ships available for free for the period of the game they're designed for AND they come with a bonus item to equip to that ship that not only can't be gotten in-game, but also grants that ship a unique power in most cases, making the ship quantifiably, objectively better than what's available for free. It isn't a debate. The only debate came in when dstahl claimed that, because it's technically possible to beat such a ship in one-vs.-one PvP (regardless of difficulty) that it was debatable. The only player debate comes from this; "the EP says it's debatable, so it can't be OP."
Well, it is, and we were outright promised before the game launched that Cryptic wasn't going to sell power in the cash shop.
personally I'll wait until the game actually launches before I start complaining about buying power in the cash shop. I have been lifetime STO subscriber since launch and I never once purchased one of those pricey C store ships....I also never had one of them defeat me in PvP unless they ganged up on me..guess they got ripped off if they thought they were buying power.
I "hope" they so want NWO to be a smash hit, that they will do what they have said numerous times recently, that Neverwinter will not be "pay to win".
I think they know how much damage would result in them going back on their word at this point. So I don't think we need concern ourselves that they might. At least not until it happens :P
Well, time is perfect, MMO market is kind of calmed down after the hype & release of GW2, WoW and Rift's expansion, SWTOR, Elder Scroll Online is late 2013, but I expect this to be released way before that.
personally I'll wait until the game actually launches before I start complaining about buying power in the cash shop. I have been lifetime STO subscriber since launch and I never once purchased one of those pricey C store ships....I also never had one of them defeat me in PvP unless they ganged up on me..guess they got ripped off if they thought they were buying power.
Whether or not they beat you in PvP, a T5 C-Store ship is statistically better than any T5 ship for free in-game. There is no arguing that point. As such, it is buying power, since that's what buying power is - paying for something that is statistically better than what's available for free.
Now, you can feel free to wait until the game launches before calling them on what they've said. Just remember that when they start selling power on the C-Store, I told you that they would, because they've done so in CO and STO, having promised both gaming communities they wouldn't.
Whether or not they beat you in PvP, a T5 C-Store ship is statistically better than any T5 ship for free in-game. There is no arguing that point. As such, it is buying power, since that's what buying power is - paying for something that is statistically better than what's available for free.
Now, you can feel free to wait until the game launches before calling them on what they've said. Just remember that when they start selling power on the C-Store, I told you that they would, because they've done so in CO and STO, having promised both gaming communities they wouldn't.
But unlike you even if they do I won't be pulling my hair out over it..I will just continue to play my game and not worry about what others are doing, that has worked very well for me in the past.
But unlike you even if they do I won't be pulling my hair out over it..I will just continue to play my game and not worry about what others are doing, that has worked very well for me in the past.
DING DING DING DING DING
We have a winner here folks!
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Not exactly. I'm reminded of the old saying about a certain dictatorship in the WW2 era, "I didn't mind them at first, because they weren't after me, they were after another group of people..." It's called a slippery slope. You might not mind the changes at first, but every step they take is a step towards making an adjustment in the game that eventually you DON'T like.
It's in your best interest to understand why someone is upset and screaming "pay to win" even if it doesn't seem to affect you at first.
But unlike you even if they do I won't be pulling my hair out over it..I will just continue to play my game and not worry about what others are doing, that has worked very well for me in the past.
So, you're just fine with Cryptic quite literally doing the opposite of what they say they'd do? You don't mind being lied to by people who are attempting to make money off you?
So, you're just fine with Cryptic quite literally doing the opposite of what they say they'd do? You don't mind being lied to by people who are attempting to make money off you?
Let me give you a clue about Cryptic.
Cryptic will tell us what we want to hear to get us playing so we may give them money.
Cryptic will DO whatever will make them the most money.
This does not mean they are the devil. It just means that they are like any other business whose goal is to make a profit. When you accept that, then you can adapt to whatever they do in their games. And you must also accept that it is THEIR game, not your game. What you expect it to be or hope it will be is irrelevant. It will be what it will be. We have two choices at that point. Accept it for what it is and play it, or reject it and move on. Whining about it will not change it. For three years the Klingon faction players have been begging Cryptic to bring the Klingon side on par with the Federation side. And for three years Cryptic has REFUSED. Yet the KDF players still whine. Heck I've been whining on their behalf as well and I am a UFP player. It does no good.
I am done raging against the machine over there. Cryptic will do what they will do. I can either find what enjoyment I can, or poke my bottom lip out, cross my arms and sulk in some corner. I could say I Quit, but there is no power in that. I haven't spent any money on STO since it went F2P. So if I did quit, they won't feel any loss. There is fun to be had in STO, but I only started truly realizing it when I finally just accepted it as it is. It will never be the game I want it to be. It will be what it will be in spite of me.
I'm not really a John Galt,
but I play one on the forums...
:P
The point of discussing anything at all on this forum is that crypticpwe have kept on professing that they want to hear about it. Most of us still believe that. Its the point because there is a way to discuss important matters that is superior to any one company deciding on its own: public discussions. We can further the opinion on such matters in a way that established truths that never before were even considered by the so-called experts.
Humans are superior to Klingons because the lore has it that way. Can't expect the FR lore to be changed just because a game asks for more balance .
Comments
Some other handy but not required items I could see being offered for either or both... skeleton keys perhaps? YOu know, so people other then rogues (if in the game) can open locked chests/doors. The bells of opening in DDO are one of the few consumables I actually buy from it's cash shop. Not all the time, but I get them when I have some extra points. Repair kits to fix your gear in the field (assuming gear takes damage) would also be nice. Neither are really unbalancing. One just reduces down time (or makes up for if you forget to repair stuff when you can). The other is more an optional quality of life thing for soloists.
Then again, if they don't put thieves/rogues in the game it's probable they wont have many traps or locked chests/doors either. Can't imagine D&D without rogues/thieves though. Or without traps.
That's not what "pay to win" means, but it's a common misconception. Really, it's short hand for "pay to (increase expectation of a) win". It's paying real money to gain an advantage in-game. Whether the advantage is overwhelming enough to guarantee victory or small is a matter of degrees. It's "pay to win" either way. Perhaps "pay for power" is a better term.
And driving a distinction between "pay to win" and "pay or play to win" is meaningless. All games are inherently "play to win" to at least some degree, or else it isn't a game.
I do not want to answer this question when I'm playing a game. I enjoy optimizing game mechanics. It is the core of why I play games. But "pay to win" makes optimizing the game trivial. Throw as much cash at it as possible. It's now just a question of whether I'm willing to pursue that optimal solution or not (and I'm not).
anyway; all in all, the only things the game needs for me is: kick-azz gameplay, complex and varied character building, lfg tool, a lot of teamplay, social recognition/statistic after completing instances. i feel that in game like GW2 you never know whos hot and whos not in a dungeon, and i like that if well implemented.
good graphics/environement, jumping, flying. are a major plus.
It still then assumes you can't get said advantage any way other then paying money. Now, a item with THE best stats possible which is only available from a cash shop with no method of gaining currency for said cash shop other then real world money? That's pay to win. Or if you had to pay real world money to do anything of any real significance.
If there is an option to get the same benefits without paying money though, it's not 'pay to win'. In this case you're paying for the convenience of faster acquisition. Sure that might get an initial advantage, but others will eventually catch up to you.
Fortunately from the sound of things you wont have to visit the cash shop for any content, and thus any gear. Thus the question becomes less important. You'd be debating if you want to spend money or time on the optional stuff instead. With DDO you do kind of have to make that decision since free content mostly runs out around level 10, when the level cap is currently 25 I think. CO and STO on the other hand give you all the 'main' game, and the nifty bells and whistles are paid for. Granted I personally consider freeform builds one of Champion's biggest selling points. But even before Cryptic sold out to Perfect World, even before it went free to play... I was still buying cash shop currency on occasion for the cosmetic stuff and non-combat pets.
Your mind may vary. And it's your right to disagree.
but then again, everything feels more slow and with only a few buttons.
maybe i'm wrong
gameplay is where it's at. don't give us console type mash em up gameplay a la diablo 3...
also, how does this mmo company deals with bots and economy ? (i havent played their other games)
but if they manage to give me an amazing dungeon crawler coop game, with a good gameplay, and with great grouping mechanics and an easy "jump in and play right away" type game; they will win some points.
GW2 isn't a deep experience by any stretch of the imagination...I currently play GW2 (when I can force myself to log on) and have had hands on time with Neverwinter at Gencon 2012, Neverwinter isn't clunky in my opinion, no you don't have over the top rapid fire attacks but combat is more dynamic and strategic. I have no defense for the mage that resting animation has to go, but I had a blast with Neverwinter and am really looking forward to launch.
nice! happy to hear it, and also very happy to understand that the combats are more "tactic", this could be very good for the coop aspect of the game (where so many aarpg fail imo).
gameplay and character types/classes/options/races etc could mean that i would jump into this boat instead of gw2.
(and really gw2 is probably the best game i've played in years)
It's hard to be excited about NWO when it appears to only be a matter of time (as short as 2-3 years) before it's shoved in the corner to make room for the next big thing.
Those of us whom are longtime STO transplants are very familiar with Stormy. I very vividly remember Stormy say that "gaming the Exchange," and thereby directly assisting the destruction of any form of viable in-game economy in STO, was viable endgame content.
To the TC, as an STO lifer, I share your concern for how this game will be financed, since everything stated about the cash shop in this game was stated at some point about the cash shop in STO, and STO's cash shop is a far cry from "as advertised."
And don't let elewyndel hear that! I can already hear another rant about how GW2 is a family-hated game and we need blood and HAMSTER in NWO.
It's true though Blood and HAMSTER area good thing... hehe
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
To a certain degree. Part of what made me not buy TERA after playing the free version was the skeevy art design. Seriously, a race entirely made up of female children in short skirts (with nearly constant pedo jokes about them in the chat), and universally ludicrously revealing outfits for the adult female characters.
Ah yea I can see where that can be a problem, like you I don't think pedophiles are something to joke about. I haven't tried Tera so don't have that experience.
We had a similar conversation in the DDO forums, I feel we should have the options for several types, armor that is skimpy but we should also have the option for more joan of arc type armor as well.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Cryptic has shown no evidence of doing such.
As much as I hate to admit it, from my perspective, this is an accurate statement. But i don't think they have as much of a choice anymore. PWE OWNS them. And while they had issues before the buyout, Cryptic never even looked like they were going to go down the direction they have taken on many elements. Those design directions only surfaced AFTER PWE spent $50,000,000.00 to buy Cryptic.
The thing is, it's all about business. And until PWE recovers their investment, and gains whatever profit they expect, I doubt we will see it be about anything else.
I am not slamming Cryptic here. But I can say that because they have only monetized things I have absolutely no need or overwhelming desire to spend money on, I have not spent a dime with them since before STO went F2P. Now if they released a major content pack and charged Zen for it, I'd buy that in a heartbeat. But I don't need fluff items.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
However as accepted as it is in the east the western country's are a completely different demographic and I don't expect lock-boxes will ever be accepted as anything better than vile. It's a matter of if, not when, governments put restrictions on their sales.
However the bad tends to outshine the good, as always. Although the appearance of lockboxes seems to be the most memorable part of the PWE Purchase, the Eastern Marketing Strategy does bring a lot of great aspects with it too...such as a very strict standard of being able to beat the game for free. Although some convenience items can be argued as pay to win based on my own opinion they do not sell anything that players can't get by some other means within a some-what reasonable time.
Also there's really very, very little that Eastern Marketing does which effects the balance of the game. If you look at western marketing they're all about selling the bigger stronger swords and this just isn't even heard of in Eastern MMO's. Honestly as much as I hate some convenience sales Eastern MMO's do, nothing and I do mean nothing is as bad as selling power in a game to me.
So Neverwinter will be the first game Cryptic releases with a heavily Eastern MMO Marketing plan put into it. Lockboxes are god awful (write to your government reps if you agree) but Eastern MMO Marketing other than lockboxes are much better in my own opinion. I hope they'll show that in a true Free to Play Neverwinter.
While this is somewhat technically true, it does neglect to mention the fact that a lot of that is also based on the buying of in-game currency with real money by other players. As such, there's still a pay-to-win aspect to the whole thing.
And this is where Cryptic has screwed up with it's cash shop. In STO, half the cash shop is ships and gear that is de-facto more powerful than what is available for free in the game for the part of the game it's meant to be used for. That's "bigger, stronger swords" in a nutshell. Yeah, this was going on before PWE bought them, but PWE didn't slow it down OR stop it - if anything, it only got bigger, badder, faster and more obvious after PWE bought them. As such, I can only assume PWE clearly approves of what you call a "Western" cash shop environment wholeheartedly.
As I said, paying to get faster travel or such isn't as bad to me as bigger better swords. In fact I tend to be very stringent with any consumable resources so I often end up not using any anyway. But that's me.
I do not play STO, in fact I have so little interest in Star Trek it baffles me. I have nothing against the game personally, just doesn't interest me so my knowledge of what PWE has or hasn't done for STO is beyond my knowledge...
But I do know many people consider 'different' better, and to me that's not necessarily the case. From what I have heard from STO Players is that half of them feel they became Pay to Win and Half said they held up their promise. Those which claim Pay to Win say that the items in the shop are far superior while those which defend Cryptic say they're different but not in any way better. Without playing the game I can't say how I feel about their cash shop there.
But I assure you there are two very conflicting sides to the STO argument.
However what is for sure is that they have made it all too frustrating of a grind to not pay for items...
I "hope" they so want NWO to be a smash hit, that they will do what they have said numerous times recently, that Neverwinter will not be "pay to win".
I think they know how much damage would result in them going back on their word at this point. So I don't think we need concern ourselves that they might. At least not until it happens :P
The ships in the STO cash shop are de-facto better. They have superior stats than the ships available for free for the period of the game they're designed for AND they come with a bonus item to equip to that ship that not only can't be gotten in-game, but also grants that ship a unique power in most cases, making the ship quantifiably, objectively better than what's available for free. It isn't a debate. The only debate came in when dstahl claimed that, because it's technically possible to beat such a ship in one-vs.-one PvP (regardless of difficulty) that it was debatable. The only player debate comes from this; "the EP says it's debatable, so it can't be OP."
Well, it is, and we were outright promised before the game launched that Cryptic wasn't going to sell power in the cash shop.
Just like here.
Well, time is perfect, MMO market is kind of calmed down after the hype & release of GW2, WoW and Rift's expansion, SWTOR, Elder Scroll Online is late 2013, but I expect this to be released way before that.
Whether or not they beat you in PvP, a T5 C-Store ship is statistically better than any T5 ship for free in-game. There is no arguing that point. As such, it is buying power, since that's what buying power is - paying for something that is statistically better than what's available for free.
Now, you can feel free to wait until the game launches before calling them on what they've said. Just remember that when they start selling power on the C-Store, I told you that they would, because they've done so in CO and STO, having promised both gaming communities they wouldn't.
But unlike you even if they do I won't be pulling my hair out over it..I will just continue to play my game and not worry about what others are doing, that has worked very well for me in the past.
DING DING DING DING DING
We have a winner here folks!
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Not exactly. I'm reminded of the old saying about a certain dictatorship in the WW2 era, "I didn't mind them at first, because they weren't after me, they were after another group of people..." It's called a slippery slope. You might not mind the changes at first, but every step they take is a step towards making an adjustment in the game that eventually you DON'T like.
It's in your best interest to understand why someone is upset and screaming "pay to win" even if it doesn't seem to affect you at first.
So, you're just fine with Cryptic quite literally doing the opposite of what they say they'd do? You don't mind being lied to by people who are attempting to make money off you?
Let me give you a clue about Cryptic.
Cryptic will tell us what we want to hear to get us playing so we may give them money.
Cryptic will DO whatever will make them the most money.
This does not mean they are the devil. It just means that they are like any other business whose goal is to make a profit. When you accept that, then you can adapt to whatever they do in their games. And you must also accept that it is THEIR game, not your game. What you expect it to be or hope it will be is irrelevant. It will be what it will be. We have two choices at that point. Accept it for what it is and play it, or reject it and move on. Whining about it will not change it. For three years the Klingon faction players have been begging Cryptic to bring the Klingon side on par with the Federation side. And for three years Cryptic has REFUSED. Yet the KDF players still whine. Heck I've been whining on their behalf as well and I am a UFP player. It does no good.
I am done raging against the machine over there. Cryptic will do what they will do. I can either find what enjoyment I can, or poke my bottom lip out, cross my arms and sulk in some corner. I could say I Quit, but there is no power in that. I haven't spent any money on STO since it went F2P. So if I did quit, they won't feel any loss. There is fun to be had in STO, but I only started truly realizing it when I finally just accepted it as it is. It will never be the game I want it to be. It will be what it will be in spite of me.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Humans are superior to Klingons because the lore has it that way. Can't expect the FR lore to be changed just because a game asks for more balance .