I absolutely disagree. DDO has SO LITTLE xp, you need to run every quest over and over, especially on a third lifer. .
Well here is my thought on exp curve of DDO. If you tried to play it totally free(without paying)many years ago when it became first time "free" to play the exp curve could compete with Everquest for slowest level up speed. I tried it for one week and I was still level 1.
However of what I have heard DDO was not extremely low exp/loot IF you used real money slightly then you got automatically both more exp and loot. There existed even exp. consumables. Anyway GW2 system maximizing character in less then 2 weeks easily is ridiculous.
WOW was everlasting(never max) character and I am not saying that system is paradise either even thought I played WOW for 3.5 years and I have played GW2 less then 3 months and we have decided with my brother that we will never buy any GW2 expansions.
If you play 40 hours/week then it should take months to maximize character and not less then 2 weeks! FFS I have a full time job and I like sports. On summer holidays I often go abroad and while there I do not play any computer games! Therefore being hardcore does not mean no social life thank you even though your girlfriend/wife might not be so happy always. If you are good in bed and stay loyal then that is usually more important for your female companion even if they might complain that you play much.
Death penalty into game please. I agree that 10 % exp penalty sounds to harsh death penalty, but maybe running as ghost like in WOW or something else.
Running like a ghost is a joke .. and annoying. DDO death of broken gear, 10% XP hit and 1 minute penalty to level is decent, but most people dont even think twice about it still unless they powerleveling. Its tough to implement a death strategy in an mmo and make everyone happy, but I would like to see something like a throw back to 2nd Edition where death cost you a CON point until you did something special to get it back. Death should not be meaningless.
I see that you want extreme hard death penalty... there existed some NeverwinterNights 1 player servers that had even permanent death rule. I played on a NeverwinterNights 1 player driven persistent server with 10 % exp penalty and it hurt like hell because it was not a fast level up server.
I am however a powergamer. If my character would permanently CON reduced with 1 then I would DELETE that character it is ruined like in permanent death.
However I am not worried. The big majority of the community would never accept permanent stat decrease. Cryptic would never implement such penalty. 10 % exp penalty is very hardcore harsh penalty remains to be seen if even so hardcore as 10 % exp penalty will be used.
This game is not like Guild wars 2 where you maximize fast your character. If this game would have exp penalty then 1-3% would be more likely penalties.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
As much as it has left modern games due to the fact psychologists realized positive reinforcment makes games more appealing to people I always loved the ability to lose levels.
I hate the whole concept we don't give death penalties, that's so 20th century. We give life bonuses, see smile you live you got a bonus!
Thankfully I got raised correctly and when I did something wrong I was punished. I lost something I had and wanted to continue having or aquired something I didn't want. I look at the, erm, lack of maturity of those who aren't punished and cringe.
As I keep saying logically speaking 6-2 (death penalty) and 4+2 (life bonus) give the same results but are simply used to trick the weak minded just as easily as an Old Jedi Mind Trick.
The only difference is it hurts more to lose something you already have. I loved losing levels in NWN1 not because I was happy about losing them but because it gave me an incentive to not die, especially at maxed level. I don't see a system which rewards not dieing being a proper punishment for a game based off a tabletop game with such strict rules on death.
I want a reason to not die...and losing stuff I never gained makes me angry but more in the line of a kamikaze. I died therefore now I don't care.
When I die and I lose something you can be damn sure I'm quivering in my boots asking "how can I not have that happen again?"
As much as it has left modern games due to the fact psychologists realized positive reinforcment makes games more appealing to people I always loved the ability to lose levels.
I hate the whole concept we don't give death penalties, that's so 20th century. We give life bonuses, see smile you live you got a bonus!
Thankfully I got raised correctly and when I did something wrong I was punished. I lost something I had and wanted to continue having or aquired something I didn't want. I look at the, erm, lack of maturity of those who aren't punished and cringe.
As I keep saying logically speaking 6-2 (death penalty) and 4+2 (life bonus) give the same results but are simply used to trick the weak minded just as easily as an Old Jedi Mind Trick.
The only difference is it hurts more to lose something you already have. I loved losing levels in NWN1 not because I was happy about losing them but because it gave me an incentive to not die, especially at maxed level. I don't see a system which rewards not dieing being a proper punishment for a game based off a tabletop game with such strict rules on death.
I want a reason to not die...and losing stuff I never gained makes me angry but more in the line of a kamikaze. I died therefore now I don't care.
When I die and I lose something you can be damn sure I'm quivering in my boots asking "how can I not have that happen again?"
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2012
Confused you, eh?
To put simply the rate of leveling should be the same regardless of which system the developers choose to promote. So let's assume they want you to level up at a rate of 6. Don't ask me what it means because this is just to give a numerical value to it.
Now in Death Penalty situation where you don't die you level up at a rate of 6. Now if the penalty for one death is 2 then then you would actually be rewarded with 4.
6-0=6 (no death)
6-2=4 (one death)
In a life bonus situation this concept works backwards. They give you the base experience for one death and then give you a "bonus" of 2.
4+2=6 (no death)
4-0=4 (one death)
Games aren't designed around people dieing all the time though. The expected rate is 6 in either case. They don't make NPC's harder in a game with a life bonus to make sure the expected result is 1 death for the rate. It's nothing more than a penalty to make players feel less frustrated when they die because they didn't lose anything, they simply lost the bonus.
However as much as this works to keep people playing it doesn't promote good playstyles. I want to kick myself in my rear end every time I die. I don't want the effect DDO gives me which is 'well I died one let's go kamikaze' or goblin grenade!
I find far more meaning in any game which it hurts to die...and this is what D&D is about. In PnP many DM's don't allow ressurections. I don't want perm punishments for dieing in any MMO but certainly life bonus has no place in a D&D game.
1. If you die and are ressurected by any means constitution loss if you fail your fortitude save.
2. If your whole party died within a dungeon delve as above and party locked out of dungeon for a period of time.
1. If you die and are ressurected by any means constitution loss if you fail your fortitude save.
2. If your whole party died within a dungeon delve as above and party locked out of dungeon for a period of time.
I am however a powergamer. If my character would permanently CON reduced with 1 then I would DELETE that character it is ruined like in permanent death.
However I am not worried. The big majority of the community would never accept permanent stat decrease. Cryptic would never implement such penalty. 10 % exp penalty is very hardcore harsh penalty remains to be seen if even so hardcore as 10 % exp penalty will be used.
This game is not like Guild wars 2 where you maximize fast your character. If this game would have exp penalty then 1-3% would be more likely penalties.
2. Ok maybe.... party locked out of dungeon for a period of time.
Sorry, no. If I've purchased items and such through the store with my money....having them degrade on my death would likely be a very bad idea. I doubt the game would have much of a player base or retention of new players if such a penalty were imposed.
The death penalty is kind of a hindrance. I agree that there should be one, but it should not last very long. Usually when you die you have to restart at a specific location, and then fight mobs of monsters again, unless you are revived. I think traveling to the spot you died takes long enough and is a decent punishment. If you are raised by another player you should have a stat deduction so punish you for making the mistake of dying. I don't think i've died in the alpha yet, so I wouldn't know what happens when you die.
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aesclealMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Agreed. I think as in WoW, where you are transported to a bind spot and have to make your way back, that's punishment enough for most. And as you said, if you accept a rez from a team player at the point of death, there should be at least a temporary stat deduction (nothing permanent though). Perhaps a reduction that is either timed, or that requires a visit to a nearby temple for a blessing. And perhaps if your team mate (cleric?) can rez you, perhaps he also can cast a blessing on you to remove that restriction? But I would think that cleric would only cast that if very necessary, as it should be taxing on him/her as well.
The death penalty is kind of a hindrance. I agree that there should be one, but it should not last very long. Usually when you die you have to restart at a specific location, and then fight mobs of monsters again, unless you are revived. I think traveling to the spot you died takes long enough and is a decent punishment. If you are raised by another player you should have a stat deduction so punish you for making the mistake of dying. I don't think i've died in the alpha yet, so I wouldn't know what happens when you die.
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Agreed. I think as in WoW, where you are transported to a bind spot and have to make your way back, that's punishment enough for most. And as you said, if you accept a rez from a team player at the point of death, there should be at least a temporary stat deduction (nothing permanent though). Perhaps a reduction that is either timed, or that requires a visit to a nearby temple for a blessing. And perhaps if your team mate (cleric?) can rez you, perhaps he also can cast a blessing on you to remove that restriction? But I would think that cleric would only cast that if very necessary, as it should be taxing on him/her as well.
Yeah you speak truth. I played WOW for 3.5 years and yes death feels enough punishment in WOW. Ok so a hardcore death penalty wisher thinks running as ghost for 3-8 minutes is NOTHING? Maybe if you die rarely, but if that death penalty is used in hard PvE Raid like ICC(Icecrown Citadel) http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel_%28instance%29 ICC Raid was HUGE! 12 Epic bosses and when you 10th time run as ghost after being slaughtered by the same Epic boss the death penalty felt enough hardcore indeed! In addition your gear took damage though not permanent you could repair gear for low cost of ingame money.
ICC was released at end of 2009 and during 2010 WOW reached its top glory of 12 million active players which is still World record!
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odinsfist1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Could always have your character in a cupid outfit unable to fight for 5 minutes LOL.
If brute force didn't work, you didn't use enough brute force!
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Stupid question, but would all surviving members of the creatures you're fighting in be fully restored and you can come back at that campfire or respawn zone be acceptable enough?
I think that would be good enough, when you die you either get owned and don't want to continue what you were doing... or you want to get back to what you were doing as quick as possible. The negative stats will just halt you in your tracks and prevent you from taking action besides walking around. Restoring the camps will make it so you have to use time going back to the area you died, but it won't just waste your time by making you sit around until the negatives are off. I don't understand why people want you to be punished for dying so much. You could lag out, or have to do something, and then you may come back dead. You may push yourself to your limits fighting a monster that you were barely unable to defeat, obviously you deserve a few minutes of bad stats just to waste your time. I can understand your armor taking damage though, that could be another thing.
Comments
Okay, yes, everybody appears to carry their own raise scrolls like you do for healing potions and stuff.
However of what I have heard DDO was not extremely low exp/loot IF you used real money slightly then you got automatically both more exp and loot. There existed even exp. consumables. Anyway GW2 system maximizing character in less then 2 weeks easily is ridiculous.
WOW was everlasting(never max) character and I am not saying that system is paradise either even thought I played WOW for 3.5 years and I have played GW2 less then 3 months and we have decided with my brother that we will never buy any GW2 expansions.
If you play 40 hours/week then it should take months to maximize character and not less then 2 weeks! FFS I have a full time job and I like sports. On summer holidays I often go abroad and while there I do not play any computer games! Therefore being hardcore does not mean no social life thank you even though your girlfriend/wife might not be so happy always. If you are good in bed and stay loyal then that is usually more important for your female companion even if they might complain that you play much.
Death penalty into game please. I agree that 10 % exp penalty sounds to harsh death penalty, but maybe running as ghost like in WOW or something else.
I am however a powergamer. If my character would permanently CON reduced with 1 then I would DELETE that character it is ruined like in permanent death.
However I am not worried. The big majority of the community would never accept permanent stat decrease. Cryptic would never implement such penalty. 10 % exp penalty is very hardcore harsh penalty remains to be seen if even so hardcore as 10 % exp penalty will be used.
This game is not like Guild wars 2 where you maximize fast your character. If this game would have exp penalty then 1-3% would be more likely penalties.
I hate the whole concept we don't give death penalties, that's so 20th century. We give life bonuses, see smile you live you got a bonus!
Thankfully I got raised correctly and when I did something wrong I was punished. I lost something I had and wanted to continue having or aquired something I didn't want. I look at the, erm, lack of maturity of those who aren't punished and cringe.
As I keep saying logically speaking 6-2 (death penalty) and 4+2 (life bonus) give the same results but are simply used to trick the weak minded just as easily as an Old Jedi Mind Trick.
The only difference is it hurts more to lose something you already have. I loved losing levels in NWN1 not because I was happy about losing them but because it gave me an incentive to not die, especially at maxed level. I don't see a system which rewards not dieing being a proper punishment for a game based off a tabletop game with such strict rules on death.
I want a reason to not die...and losing stuff I never gained makes me angry but more in the line of a kamikaze. I died therefore now I don't care.
When I die and I lose something you can be damn sure I'm quivering in my boots asking "how can I not have that happen again?"
4=6? /10char
To put simply the rate of leveling should be the same regardless of which system the developers choose to promote. So let's assume they want you to level up at a rate of 6. Don't ask me what it means because this is just to give a numerical value to it.
Now in Death Penalty situation where you don't die you level up at a rate of 6. Now if the penalty for one death is 2 then then you would actually be rewarded with 4.
6-0=6 (no death)
6-2=4 (one death)
In a life bonus situation this concept works backwards. They give you the base experience for one death and then give you a "bonus" of 2.
4+2=6 (no death)
4-0=4 (one death)
Games aren't designed around people dieing all the time though. The expected rate is 6 in either case. They don't make NPC's harder in a game with a life bonus to make sure the expected result is 1 death for the rate. It's nothing more than a penalty to make players feel less frustrated when they die because they didn't lose anything, they simply lost the bonus.
However as much as this works to keep people playing it doesn't promote good playstyles. I want to kick myself in my rear end every time I die. I don't want the effect DDO gives me which is 'well I died one let's go kamikaze' or goblin grenade!
I find far more meaning in any game which it hurts to die...and this is what D&D is about. In PnP many DM's don't allow ressurections. I don't want perm punishments for dieing in any MMO but certainly life bonus has no place in a D&D game.
2. If your whole party died within a dungeon delve as above and party locked out of dungeon for a period of time.
1. No lol. 2. Ok maybe.... party locked out of dungeon for a period of time.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Icecrown_Citadel_%28instance%29
ICC Raid was HUGE! 12 Epic bosses and when you 10th time run as ghost after being slaughtered by the same Epic boss the death penalty felt enough hardcore indeed! In addition your gear took damage though not permanent you could repair gear for low cost of ingame money.
ICC was released at end of 2009 and during 2010 WOW reached its top glory of 12 million active players which is still World record!