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Death Penalty
zellex
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I saw a post on this from last year and saw no answer. Will there be a death penalty of any type? I liked the one in DDO for example where if you were in a dungeon and died your "crystal" would have to be carried to a rest shrine...I thought it was a pretty good system actually. Limited shrines made people be a bit more cautious.
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no, just kidding. but it would be awesome.
No, it wouldn't. It's just a reason to smash a monitor.
St. Augustinus
oooo you must be playing a barbarian
Yeah, in d2. I didn't repeat my errors in d3
St. Augustinus
Well some kind of death penalty for certain must exist. You get weaker stats if resurected or ghost running like in WOW etc. We will not have extreme death penalty like permanent death, but having no penalty is also ridiculous.
However this is one of those questions that we do not know the answer and developers might still change their mind.
Agreed. There is definitely a balance that needs be achieved with the penalty because although you don't want to make it "un-fun", you definitely need to make it so people aren't reckless in combat and/or exploration. Some incentive to remain cautious is always needed. I'll be interested to see what they come up with.
The placement of spawn points is also paramount. If you can just respawn 10 meters away from the boss you were fighting then no big deal. If that's not the case... then dying becomes a problem. For example, in RaiderZ there is a certain boss in the northeast end of the bottom floor of a certain cave. If you die while fighting it, you have a 1-minute death penalty where all your stats are halved and which you have to wait out if you want to survive going back to the boss. And going back to the boss is a major pain, because you spawn in the floor above the boss, which leaves you with 2 options: a) fall through a hole in the cave ceiling, land to the bottom floor (losing 3/4 of your health in the process) then immediately be assulted by giant spiders that can web you and kill you in seconds, or b) take the long way around, walk through an entire floor filled with cobolds armed with guns, pass through a friendly camp in the bottom floor, pass through the spiders and then go to the boss.
Now that is a death penalty I like. 0 progression lost, but still a major pain.
Anyways.
Death penalty is a tricky thing. I don't like the RaiderZ penalty system and I don't think we'll be seeing anything like it here. You can't cast Resurrect in RaiderZ til level 30, and the level cap there is 35. So it wouldn't make sense here... assuming you can cast Resurrect a little earlier in character development.
Stat damage is... an okay way to handle death penalty. But it makes your character likely to die right away again if rezzed in combat, which means if you're a melee, it's a lot heavier penalty for you than anyone else.
I don't know about you guys, but I HATE having to run too far back to get my corpse... if it's too far, I'm likely to just be frustrated and switch to something else. In that way, I kinda liked WoW's death penalty. I could choose to bring my corpse to me, or I could run there in spirit mode. Which was faster than walking regularly, and at least it looked different... gave me a break of scenery. Made running back to my corpse not so bad.
It should be noted that in GW2 you get XP for resurrecting other players... which I think was a fabulous idea. In some games, characters who die are booted right from parties for losing XP. ANYTHING that discriminates against forming parties (like a group-wide XP penalty for death) should NEVER be in an MMO.
Of course there should be something for death to keep things in check, and due to what I have been reading and NWO being somewhat based on 4th Edtion then I'm all for needing to actually find someone and having to pay to get someone brought back to life, if no other means are available.
What's the point in having different classes that have other abilities........
Here is a Para-Phase from WOTC,
Death and Dying in D&D
Legends and Lore
Mike Mearls
" In 4th Edition, raise dead became a ritual that required 500 gp to cast. In addition, the target suffered a a –1 penalty to most d20 rolls for six encounters of adventuring. It’s interesting to see how death became less of an obstacle in 4th Edition,
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
DEADER
STONECOLD
DEADASADOORNAIL
hear are some more threads on the DP from past.
There is a better chance of me winning the lottery than Neverwinter having a death penalty mechanic where someone has to pay to revive you LOL. Actually if I recall in one of the demo videos I believe they died with a tickster rogue and respawned somewhere, my memory is a little vague on that one though.
I agree, there must be some kind of penalty. Personally i like Guild Wars 2 one, much more than WoW one, but this is a personal choice
St. Augustinus
As for penalties for resurrection spells, I feel that there shouldn't generally be any. Having a penalty to either person for helping another is a generally bad idea.
The system you described only existed in the Original Campaigns for the most part...and it was the first thing Player Developers scrapped. It was a horrible death system.
Some servers went to the extreme of Perm Death (Rough rules, great communities) while others simply removed death penalties completely (bad servers for the most part...)
However what I found was most common was the raising penalty. First few deaths were free but the more you died the more you were penalized (in XP and GP) either to a cap or with forgiveness for time since last death. I didn't see a lot of servers with drop items on death but I can't even remember a server I played on which implemented a feature which would actually permit you to teleport back to where you were unless. Maybe you could get close but not exactly to where you died.
NWN OC Death Penalties...*shivers*...one of the worst ones I've ever seen. Good for players first getting into the game but a bad system all in all.
This no good in other peoples opinions? I also hate exp penalties unless they are very minimal and if they would be minimal ..why even bother. Also I hate having to repair gear in any game.... degrading gear is the dumbest concept ever introduced into any game imo....just a way to take money out of the game and weapons out of the game.... just make gear, that isn't common, bind on equip.... or even great gear bop so you don't get farmers...I mean I like to farm a bit but just for my own gear...also maybe a system that allows you to pass gear to group members for 5 minutes before it becomes bop....I know that last bit was off my own topic... but meh... still good stuff imo to consider
OH, Perma-Death? If that were implemented I honestly wouldn't play the game....I don't have a problem with games going that way some people enjoy it....I have no interest in spending 100+++ hours in a game and poof... my guys gone, looted, the end...just sucks imo. I looked at some of the previous posts someone linked and really if there is a demand for this I think it would be small and my suggestion would be start a small server with just one shard to start with and watch the popularity of it.... I have a feeling it would be dead within a month... perma death just blows.... same with being the whole idea of pvp and loot able gear from players would probably make me avoid the game entirely because I just don't want to deal with the frustration of it tbh... even though I'm a HUGE fan of D&D video games that would be a game killer for me.... played a few like that and my entire guild hated it and we quickly left angry with the game, angry with each-other, blaming each-other for not "doing our part etc etc etc... actually broke our guild up for a few months from silly frustrations that really had nothing to do with our skill. What game was that? Darkfall Online when it first opened up... full of hacking cheaters, full loot (no perma death though), was absolutely the WORST gaming experience I ever had. Might be better now but man for a small guild even after only 2 weeks of release made us want to rip our hair out...I think if people want this sortta stuff they should go play that game... would HATE to see this game go the same way. (Yeah sorry off my own topic again)
DDO's shrine system won't work in NW due to there is no blue bar or X number of clickies due to everything being on cooldown mechanic, you have rez scrolls you can use to revive yourself. And personally didn't like DDOs shrine system at all, soul stones is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> concept and never came across where shrining was an issue.
I'm a very big fan of XP penalty. The PWs (Persistent World) in NWN2 I thought have a great concept. You can either A. port to the dead realm and reenter the world of the living for a penalty to XP (typically 10%), B. someone in the group to cast raise dead spell or scroll (major fan of this and really keeps to the atmosphere of D&D as only the divine can accomplish this) or C someone can haul your body to a temple and the priests resurrect for a fee. But sadly this would never happen as developers tend to make games casual friendly.
Repair bills serves a purpose, it punishes people who are ill prepared for a fight and just blundering along. It also serves as a from of money sink to help out against inflation of the market. GW2 was too extreme with the price it takes to repair (people in exotics going in some rough exploration dungeons get punished way to severely to the point that people swap out their highest gear for some lower quality ones). I'd like to see repair being expanded upon and maybe making it part of the crafting mechanics I think would be great but for the most part it's a pointless mechanic as the cost is usually trivial. Or they simply incorporate some real good armor dmg mechanics like oozes that dissolve metal armor or the rust monster.
Permadeath has already been hotly discussed. No dev would implement a forced permadeath mechanic, this is something that players can do on their own via a permadeath guild or the permadeath groups which is seen in DDO.
I would love to see some real death penalties but I find that doubtful due to devs will make this game appealing to casuals and not punitive and with the fact that one can use a "resurrection scroll" when dead, KOed, down, or whatever I find it doubtful and wishful thinking that any sort of death penalty to happen in game besides maybe a temp defuff.
1. exp loss
2. gold loss
3. leave your inventory and armor weapons and gold in the dungeon and find your way back to them.
I like choices
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I could dig that. As long as cleric's get Rez and (at least some) others can scroll it.
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't mind tiered rez spells (the highest level rez spell is the only one that works with zero penalties and maybe has buffs).
I would have to agree, this is one of the features I really enjoyed in Torchlight. And that's good when you can say you enjoyed dieing.
Wouldn't it be more interesting if your death penalty was randomized? Like, sometimes, you had a movement penalty, other times, lowered HP, or longer cooldowns on abilities?
Yeah actually I don't mind the idea of this... also to make it a bit more of a penalty how about as someone else was saying maybe increase the penalty for each subsequent death on a timer... so say you die again in the next 5 - 10 minutes exp or gold loss is increased and if you chose say #3 the second time around you would also get hit with a exp % penalty? Even to really make it hurt could make it not on a timer and make it say per instance? So essentially 4 or 5 deaths in an instance and it REALLY hurts?
I guess my thing is I'm not so into the idea of being "punished" as some people put it...hate the idea of being punished... I really like the idea of forcing people to use caution and having a plan while completing a task though.... maybe the same thing I suppose just different wording...I have definitely played games where I felt punished though vs. forced to play attentively.
Finally in response to someone stating that DDO res shrines and soul shards were "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" I liked them I will also say in most places there were far too many of them. Now on the other hand I did like the ability to NOT have to take a dedicated healer or someone that could use res scrolls etc.. it was a real challenge and THAT is what I liked about shrines and soul stones....but then again I understand that if you had a full healer in your group it was probably easy mode and all that stuff was worthless...I have to admit our group had a bit of contempt for pure healers hehe...so yeah I can see why my original thoughts are based on a style of playing most people don't use...we liked to make it hard on ourselves...was the most fun way to play really..... pally heals were it lol.
Deathssickle has hit on probably the best idea I've seen yet....I could even see after a death or two mandatory stat hits for a minute or two and at some point maybe a cap or a massive time penalty to stats say after 5 - 6 deaths such <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> str you can hardly move etc...I mean at some point I do think people need to say, "Ok I just don't have the gear, the level, or proper group to cut it here....time to leave." I just don't want to see a thing where people end up broke, or having to work off exp debt for 5 hours, or getting screwed by people who don't want to help you get your gear back because they have to go watch the Notebook with their wives or whatever....just shouldn't be so much of a pain that it makes you want to rip your hair out. Yeah I know some people like that...
Yeah that could be interesting too...would have to be done VERY carefully I think though... in a way it's almost a novelty...how much of that would be canceled out with buffs though in reality? Would it really even be worth implementing? Really the only things that probably couldn't be fixed that are reasonable would be xp hits, loss of gold, equipment drops & equipment dmg...man I hate equipment degradation so badly though....it's just not an incentive it's an annoyance.... imo anyway
- you die
- option to resurrect on spot with XP debt (not loss, debt, which reduces incoming XP by some % until a % of your total XP has been re-achieved, City of Heroes style) AND one random penalty (-50% movement speed, -50% physical or magical defense, -50% HP, 50% magic attack or -50% physical attack) at 25% health
- resurrect on spot with gold loss, equipment degradation and one random penalty at 25% health
- leave inventory on the ground and find your way back to retrieve it
- be resurrected by a cleric or someone with a raise dead scroll
the first tier of res only partially eliminates xp debt/item degradation/gold loss and the person being rezzed chooses which option, still takes random penalty
second tier eliminates all xp debt/item degradation/gold loss but you still get one random penalty
third tier is "true res" with no penalty, but raises at only 25% health
fourth tier is holy-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> res that raises at 100% health?
but we'll see
i really think that randomized penalties would bring an interesting role-playing element to the game that's missing from a lot of MMORPGs and that a Dungeons and Dragons MMO surely needs.
Exp loss, for those who played Diablo 2, was really really really a bad idea. I think it's the only thing that shouldn't be touched (in fact it was deleted also from d&d since 3rd edition).
I'd say Equipment degradation with speed and stat penalty. Maybe -4 to your main stat and -2 to all others for up to 5 minutes.
St. Augustinus