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Idea to get players to group up more.
beaunan
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
How about some type of class move combo system. So a Fighter could activate a blocking stance making them immobile but then if a magic user cast ray of frost on the fighter it would refocus it into a more powerful beam. Or two magic users could cast two spells together, say fire and lightning and cause some new spell.
Just an idea that would get players to group up more and have to organize their attacks better.
Just an idea that would get players to group up more and have to organize their attacks better.
Post edited by beaunan on
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I'm hoping to see a lot of this with the way Clerics heal other players. Like if a player is being healed by a cleric, if he uses his healing surge at the right time, the cleric's spell has additional effects.
Also another idea for combo was from vangard i believe - about push pull mechanics. Also there was some speculation if "Coup de grace" would be included.
However, I don't think any of those would make it in during launch. That system is good on PnP or in games with only limited classes. With too many classes in this game with so many paragons which will be released slowly - this may make it too complex and may cause lag.
Without actually having gotten my hands on the game there is no way of knowing if this would work with the way combat functions in game, but if so it is certainly something to consider.
Nice, but hold monster takes care of 1/2 of your idea just fine!
I am all for ensuring Crowd Control spells get their day in the sun in Neverwinmter. This alone would draw many from DDO who loved playing their CC toons (Turbine has turned their back on them for years).
I'd love to see some grappling techniques that require or at least benefit from multiple party members. All around fantastic idea Beaunan !
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This would need to worked so that all people in the party would need to be in the same dungeon/instance as the rest for their XP bonus to take effect. For instance, say 3 party members are in an instance together yet the other two are off in town. Those 3 in the dungeon would benefit from 3-6% XP boost, while the other two would only benefit each other with a 2-4% XP boost for them only.
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This in addition to better rewards for hard content are generally my choices for rewarding people for grouping.
I like the idea of providing XP incentives to group up with others. In fact, I like providing ANY and ALL incentive to group up with others. It's an MMO, and it's DnD, after all! It's a group oriented game!
Also, I think part of the reason Cleric has come so late in development, and the reason we haven't seen any of them in their demo videos, is because they wanted to make a game that wasn't dependent on having a cleric in the party, but that benefited from it.
I am all for and highly recommend grouping incentives. On the same hand however, I strongly recommend against forcing grouping upon players to experience Lore and Content. Grouping should always be a choice with benefits, it should never be a requirement.
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Couldn't have said it better. I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm not sure something like this would fit the D&D experience however. Coordination in D&D is more about applying conditions and then making good use of strong abilities while a monster is debuffed. I'm also not sure how that best translates to an action-based game.
EDIT: I forgot to add that you really can't convince people to group if they don't want to. Incentives don't matter. Group rewards and incentives are only meaningful to those whose already like to be in groups.
I'd be rather disappointed if I could solo EVERYTHING in the game. I want challenging content across the entire level spectrum that is more rewarding to play with a full group than solo. Want to solo? Head out to the wilderness and take down some bandits. When I enter a Dungeon, I expect to require a full party. Or two full parties
Not sure how this new combat system would do it but would love to see it wish-listed!
Also, this game is based in 4e rules. I am not very familiar with 4e but I don't remember seeing anything like that. If they did a change like the one you propose it would shift the rules a lot from 4e. I am not sure this is what Cryptic would want, or even the playerbase.
I understand the opinion about soloing in a DnD game, it's not very DnD-like style of playing and I agree. However, we have to remember that this is an MMO and people should be given this option, not everyone has played DnD in the past and maybe people would like to experience this game in their own way.
But the best argument I can give you why people will group instead of soloing is the Foundry. If every time I log into the game I see a new dungeon I will probably want to explore it with a party!
:-)
Party? Did someone say party? Who doesn't like a good party?
jS
This city promises death for the meek, glory for the bold, danger for all, and riches for Jade!
Elven Trickster Rogue: Two-bladed elf, tons of stabby stabby and that sort of thing...
| R. A. Salvatore | My Minions | Forgotten Realms Wiki | Elven Translator |
Party is needed. Even this vetern became so happy that he almost destroyed the world with his laughter just because he got a newb in his party. The elitist snubs who hated the newbs in party were pawned.
We can all learn from him not to be elitist snubs but to be happy everytime a newb joins us.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
p.s. newb is not n00b.
It will also present an opportunity to abuse the system. It is quite easy, especially if multi-classing is allowed, to make a single character who abuses this mechanic solo. This would, obviously eliminate the wanted goal of achieving the social team aspect of the idea.
I'm sure we will see something similar that will spontaneously evolve from the implementation of DnD rules and game play mechanics.
From the demonstration videos I've seen (which, admittedly, isn't much..) the team dynamic between a wizard, rogue and guardian worked perfectly and each of them complemented each other nicely. Of course this could have been a result of actual players skills, but it definitely looked more engaging and rewarding then playing solo.
Combo, feats, etc... LOTRO uses something like this. I can't recall the exact mechanics of it but when in a group, you periodically in a fight get to initiate a "fellowship maneuver". This can either apply a group heal, a bleed, a slow, or a whole host of other things. Normally when grouping, you set up a pattern you will use...everyone go red, everyone go blue, etc. When the fellowship maneuver kicks in, everyone knows what icon to press to get the best advantage. This was a really nice feature, and one that could often turn the tide in some of the more challenging battles.
Do I think grouping should be mandated? Not in the least. Do I think it should be encouraged? Absolutely.
I maxed out two characters on SWTOR and never once was I in a group. If you accept the premise that MMO's are social, then this is one area in which that particular game failed. Getting into a group should be something easy. You should do it when you need to tackle content that is too difficult for you to do alone. And I think there should be quite a bit of that sort of content, but an equal amount that a player can solo (or at least have a chance of completing solo).
Do I want to run around in a group experiencing this game? Yup! But I suspect that I won't be joining many pugs, I will most likely join a guild and run with those folks, I find that a much better alternative.
I'm rambling...later.
Ezra Steel
Hehe this is just a speculation thread. Real discussion would starts when we have our hands on the game.
This is pretty much my thoughts on most threads on this forum, especially those which have rather heated arguments/debates....
Let's see the game first... b:victory
This city promises death for the meek, glory for the bold, danger for all, and riches for Jade!
Elven Trickster Rogue: Two-bladed elf, tons of stabby stabby and that sort of thing...
| R. A. Salvatore | My Minions | Forgotten Realms Wiki | Elven Translator |
*throws things*
but any bonus put into any game is a penalty for those who do not conform to such actions.
In this case, any person who chooses to play by themselves (or smaller groups depending on the incentives) would in essence be punished. Let's say they give you 3% XP bonus per person in the party, this means a 5 man group would receive 12% bonus experience compared to a solo player and 9% compared to a duo group.
As a whole this isn't too bad but one of the incentives of playing as a group is that it's typically easier and at least faster to clear dungeons and complete quests as a team. So the real punishment for choosing to solo/duo will likely be even higher.
Honestly group incentives are built into the mechanic of working with a group. Any additional bonus has to be thought about carefully because it can quickly tip the scale from being an incentive to party up to a punishment for not playing with other players.
Rune scape's Dungeoneering skill fell into this category and the developers (and some of the bull headed jerks in the player base) defended the literal term "group bonuses" through heaven and hell but there was truly no justification for giving 500K-1M more XP/Hour to a group of 5 compared to a group of 2.
So while it's a great idea on paper there are risks to implementing such a feature. The scales could easily tip and reduce the option to solo/duo into nothing more than a literal option.
Ex. I have the literal option to jump off a bridge IRL but it doesn't mean it's a good option.
So the side effect of small group punishments must always be considered before implementing any grouping incentives.
Like the rest of you folks, I want nothing more than to get started playing this game and enjoying myself.
My Best,
Ezra Steel
None taken at all, but you just seemed very tense and serious
So I thought that might help you smile and lighten up
EDIT: sorry if it had the opposite effect.
No worries, I suspect that I should use more smiley bears b:laugh to indicate my mood!
My Best,
Ezra Steel
btw, don't use too many bears. A certain mod likes to slaughter them and wear their intestines *looks at truthseeker*
This is a very good idea actually. I will add it to my idea thread. But let me explain you the idea(because I stole and changed it a bit YARR YARR!!!)
In NW we have roles. Problem with maneuveur (hope I spelled right) is that too many maneauvuers can cause lag. This was explained long ago by a technophilic fan but during combat we need to send as less data as possible as all info has to flow back and forth about coordinates and all. Adding combo would increase the size of package in power ratio(raise to power) to the number of classes and number of possibilities.
Now if like in LOTRO, we limit our combos based on roles (only 4 roles but many classes) then this can bring limited combos without introducing lag.
Lag as you understand is much more important in an active combat based game than features. If my guardian is slow in lowering the shield, my mouse is gonna crash on my monitor in frustration (not really though
By limiting combos among only four roles, it will encourage people to have all four roles in game - a good thing i think.
I'm a long time EVE player and let me tell you about lag! I've been in fleet battles with well over two thousand players in combat at the same time...lag was always an issue and one that took a rather ingenious solution (time dilitation) to fix and it still has issues.
Imagine if you will, a group that size, firing missiles, lasers, railguns and drones, activating hardeners, warp scramblers, webs, shields, repair modules, scanners while flying and warping to all points within the system and a whole host of other things at the disposal of the individual players and you can see what the developers at CCP had to address.
I think your approach has merit and should be something that could be looked into for development.
My Best,
Ezra Steel
*the mage looks up from his ritual and quickly covers the bear heart, liver, eyes and teeth laying within his circle*
Huh? Oh, yeah.. that dang Truth...
*the mage walks away slowly, whistling innocently*
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I must admit that it is not my idea but a merger of your post with one I read last year on this forums. A second of unwanted lag at wrong moment can destroy all of the fun in game.
@zeb I see, was just wondering where the bodies went after truth deinterstined them ... carry on with the research, doctor!
Essentially, the use of certain powers on enemies would not only do their damage and other effects, it would also place a "state" on the enemy that could then be "exploited" for a big damage bonus from the use of specific other powers that could do so.
It was dropped from Champions I believe due to the open power system there, so that in practice players just made their own builds that both primed and then exploited foes all by themselves, so instead of promoting teaming it was promoting soloing.
I think here is a more class based structure, it could probably be designed to work a lot better!
Take for example; Control Wizards can not only do constant low damage and slowing effects to enemies with Ray of Frost, but perhaps also place a chilled or frosted state on enemies that are currently slowed, and some other class, perhaps Rogues could take advantage of chilled/frosted foes that can't react with normal reflexes to do a large bonus to damage when using a specific surprise attack, which is normally a good power, but when used on Frosted foes, even better. Once so exploited, the Frosted State ends.
In a similar vain, perhaps various states and exploits could be designed into some use with all classes in the game, from one to another, with DPS and Leader classes getting most of the Exploits, and Controlling and Tank classes getting most of the State appliers.
In any event, every class should get access to at least one state applier and one exploit power somewhere.
This would not only promote teaming, but also promote synergy in teams builds, sort of like "Discussing strategy" at the Campfire when everyone is resting. Since this is where players can swap out powers on their builds, teams can plan to slot in synergy using state-appliers and exploits to more quickly and effectively fight together.
Also, some Exploits should be deigned to work with class concepts, For example, a Fighter Tank type could use a power that draws agro on not only his primary target, but also all other foes near him and his target to a certain range. this could place a State of Agitated on those foes for as long as the Fighter hass their agro, and a COntrol Wizard might have a specific Area Effect control power that deal low damage in an area, but when used on agitated foes, deals bonus damage and draws no threat, and increases the area to hit all other agitated foes in the area. When the spell is done, Agitation ends.
Obviously there would have to be a cooldown on each State so a foe couldn't be chain stated and exploited.
Anyhow, this would promote teaming if designed well since players would be able to defeat groups of monsters and tought bosses faster, thus safer and with increased XP to time factor.