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Death Penalty?
thetruthurts
Member Posts: 22 Arc User
Should NW have a death penalty? Why or why not? If so, what kind?
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"Class: Game Mechanics"
In there, at point 1 is link to old death penelty thread with ideas on various death penelties and even an underworld game.
But no official word on it yet.
I jest...could you image how many people with a 3 constitution there would be?
Corpse run always worked fine for me.
Agreed.
And because of this I don't feel like this system can truly be talked about until the game is at the very least in Beta.
Death penalties have to be designed for each game individually. It should be the last thing worked on and catered to the actual difficulty of the game itself rather than worked on while the game is in development. It is not really feasible for any of us to say what is and is not too much of a penalty at this point other than neither extreme should be considered.
We need to have death penalties...and I do believe death penalties should probably be avoided/reduced by having a cleric with raise dead/resurrection in the party.
The only thing I can absolutely say for sure is we BETTER not get something like DDO which is just god awful. This goes for ALL games when I state any death penalty should be a loss of things already acquired. Not a loss of things yet to be earned.
I've seen a few games cater to this "you don't lose anything for dieing, you just get more for not dieing" and the only thing it does is demotivate me if I die.
That's kind of how it works in Champions Online. You can earn up to 5 or 6 (can't remember how many) hero points for each completed mission/quest and you lose one each time you respawn. Each hero point is worth something like a cumulative 5% increase in damage and healing. Anybody out there that knows the specific numbers better than I do can correct me on any of that, but you get the idea anyway.
With the way the power curve runs on that game, however, I feel like I don't ever notice the bonus. It would be neat if the "life bonus" was a really, really desirable benefit. However, I'm not personally opposed to death penalties as a principle. I feel like death penalties are kind of a downer in a superhero game, but in my high fantasy? Yeah, I could maybe get behind them.
In GW, your DP starts at 0, and each time you die, it goes -15%, to a max of -60%. That percentage takes away from your health and mana pool. It goes away by killing mobs or mapping to a town or outpost. If you kill bosses, it removes 2% of your DP.
However, when you're at 0 DP, you can actually get a buff up to +10% by killing bosses (doing so gives you +2% each up to the 10%) or doing other objectives that give a morale boost. I suggested such a DP mechanic for STO, but was ignored for something that is nothing more than an annoying gold sink.
The most important question, in my mind, is how difficult does the game make getting rid of that penalty?
Yep what he said
this has been bought up a few times different posts, (use search) is actually interesting peeps want a some sort of death penalty.
I just feel like the challenge is more satisfying if there's actually a consequence to losing. I don't think anybody likes to lose, but also think people lose interest quickly if they don't have any sense of challenge to overcome or progress to earn.
That sounds like something I'd like in a game.
As for this: Again, no no no! That's not a bonus...it's a demotivate. Ew I died now I don't feel like continuing because I am not going to get as much experience.
The difference between life bonuses and the GW mechanic is that you *earn* your way out of the *penalty.* There's really, really nothing worse to me than to tell me I lost % XP from a long term quest because I died once.
Deaths in video games are unavoidable otherwise we'd be playing with PnP rules with permanent deaths and destroyed corpses.
Basically the "20th century" concept of punish over reward is just the way life works.
"Everybody wins, some people just win more" is just...ugh. It's a plague to our modern society.
What would be the point in living if you didn't fear death? Would make life pretty boring ;-)
Oh for sure im all for it, some want to slam/zerg right through everything (the game looks fast as it is), and be given everything without having to earn it, ect ect. the Gw penalty sounds like a promising one, but they would obviously need to come up with there own take on it rather than carbon copy it, however old school D&d, permanant con loss for a death and rezz, example:- could be adjusted, not at a permanant loss, but as similiar10- 60% to a max of 1 to 6 con points to adjust the lvl of HP to go back into a quest ect? then slowly returned as time/monster kill/daily wore on without another death.
How it plays in that game or ported to this type of game may vary from player to player and more feedback is needed to see if this is viable for here.
As for me i wouldnt mind if cryptic implemented it, it would probably get people more focus on game, with such an action oriented gameplay penalties could also been a pain in the HAMSTER for some people lol
I didnt read the entire conversation, just giving my opinion according to the topic title.
The wording could imply no xp loss death penalty but like I said that should be the last feature considered when developing. That's subject to change.
As for it being a pain to some people there's very few games where there is no death penalty so it's nothing anybody should be unfamiliar with.
If anybody is finding it hard to stay alive death penalties are the only true way to encourage players to deal with situations and enemies better.
The reason why I am so adamant on not doing XP penalties for future XP is because it encourages players to stop caring. I can't tell you how many times I did a DDO dungeon carefully to die just before the boss fight. That's all the reason I needed to suicide the boss to kill them faster.
Death penalties should not only discourage death, but encourage players to do better in the future.
To the Below - A buff or debuff; fine. XP Penalty; fine. Level Penalty; fine. Permanent XP Loss on in-progress content; not fine.
Honestly I could easily argue that 4e just followed suit with the world and the game industry in choosing to state 'everybody has to be a winner.'
Reversing the order does not make them benefits. It just angers me more to be told I lost something I never gained. It's like being told I have to work for free and that won't motivate anybody to do anything better.
Death penalties? I'd say definitely. But not XP or levels. I like a buff/debuff system as others have already outlined.
Totally agree
If the game is designed to kill you, and kill you often then death penalties are a double whammy. Ie look we designed this to kill you and we gonna punish you for dying.. we will punish you! muhahahahahaha (cough splutter!)
Maybe fail the dungeon if everyone doing it dies? but anything more, not sure.
A. Lose durability on items
B.Lose gold or whatever name it is
C. Copy Torchlight's death penalty by paying more gold to be ressurected on spot or be ressurected on the starting point of the dungeon.
And, the death penalty SHOULD NOT BE "LOSE XP WHEN DYING" God, I hate that death penalty on other mmo's.
I want to HAMSTER in Neverwinter, whenever I want, for as long as I want.
Hear, hear! Just frustrating and will make players to carefull, maybe.
Careful you say? It made me ragequit in another game since there's this ultra impossible diffculty on that certain enemy and my xp bar is almost full.
I want to HAMSTER in Neverwinter, whenever I want, for as long as I want.
Did you see cat pass again? It can be anamoly, matrix might be changing (puts sunglasses on and wait for "lots of guns" program to load)
The other choice was to map out - which meant all your progress through that map was lost. That meant fighting nearly every trash mob all over again through a huge twisted maze of a map, then facing that same boss again - probably none the wiser for not having fought it for 45 minutes or so.
Granted, it didn't happen to me often, but when it did I'd pretty much call it done for the night. The in-game prospects were sub-optimal with regards to the generation of "fun."
Life, sure. But this is a video game, where "punishment" is virtual and therefore ultimately immaterial. IMO, anything between zero penalty and permadeath is just a pointless hack.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
When you die you have to get back where you were, and sometimes, depending on the quest you're doing, you also lose progress and have to start all over again. If you happen to die inside a dungeon, in a bossfight, the team loses a member and often that results in a wipe, and you all have to go back and start the boss all over again.
That's a penalty in itself - why on earth would you put another penalty on top of it? At worst, a 30 second debuff that discurages any potential abuse is all that's needed. This is not Dark Souls, and even Dark Souls is relatively tame when it comes to death penalties compaired to it's predecessor...