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Does no hotbars = no gear swapping?
aescleal
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Just for discusion:
Title says it all. NWO looks and sounds as though we won't have a bunch of hotbars to splatter about the screen, cluttering up our view. If that is the case, I can only presume that gear swapping will not be a quick clicky button thing to do. In another D&D game I play, it's pretty much expected that I will carry between 3-5 weapons to swap, at least one other set of armor to swap, different boots, gloves, cloak, rings, etc., to use at any time when my needs change.
I mean, you just never know when you will have to swap out your armor of frost protection for your armor of fire protection. Or a mace of shock for a mace of poison. you get the drift. Some dungeons you seem to have to swap out items constantly.
Should we gather from the UI vids/shots/discussions that in NWO there will be less of this?
I loved playing PnP, when all you needed was that prized +1 sword, and you were good to go, against most anything, except for a few of the more high level rare mosters (oh, and rust monsters). Nowadays it seems you have to have a different weapon for almost every monster type if you want to do the most damage and keep up!
Peace
Title says it all. NWO looks and sounds as though we won't have a bunch of hotbars to splatter about the screen, cluttering up our view. If that is the case, I can only presume that gear swapping will not be a quick clicky button thing to do. In another D&D game I play, it's pretty much expected that I will carry between 3-5 weapons to swap, at least one other set of armor to swap, different boots, gloves, cloak, rings, etc., to use at any time when my needs change.
I mean, you just never know when you will have to swap out your armor of frost protection for your armor of fire protection. Or a mace of shock for a mace of poison. you get the drift. Some dungeons you seem to have to swap out items constantly.
Should we gather from the UI vids/shots/discussions that in NWO there will be less of this?
I loved playing PnP, when all you needed was that prized +1 sword, and you were good to go, against most anything, except for a few of the more high level rare mosters (oh, and rust monsters). Nowadays it seems you have to have a different weapon for almost every monster type if you want to do the most damage and keep up!
Peace
Post edited by aescleal on
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Perhaps it will be either an optional toggle or scroll bar triggered but always running in the background.
Honestly it might have been toggled off because in the demos it could easily distract players from the demo at hand and dwell too much on the future of items and such.
Whether switching swords to bows or to an alternate weapon/shield better fit for specific instances I would think that's too key to simply leave out. But you bring up a very valid concern. Hopefully we'll get an official response to this.
Not to mention, it feels more realistic to have to dig in the pack for the items you need, rather than instantly reach for the specific item you need in the inter-dimensional storage space b:laugh Remember 3.5e PnP where inventory swap is a move action? :P
That said, there will likely be some mechanic for that, though I very much hope that they keep it very basic, I'll be happy if they do away with having to carry several bags of equipment just to run a quest.
yeah this is a nice touch. Swapping powers/gear out at campfires, as well adds the element of getting ready for the next stage of quest ect, and a change of party tactics, for the next stage if needed made by a clever UGCDM that thinks ouside the box (dungeon).
they also talked about in one of the threads i posted that gear will come up yellow highlighted, to show it's better than what you have, to incorperate i guess a change on the fly system, so that the players dont have to feel like he is taking minutes, to check stats of it against what he already has ect.
Whether or not we'll have functions to allow quick equipment swapping, who knows. Forsaken World did recently add Cosmetic Gear presets to their game, which make use of Hot-keys instead of hotbar slots, unlike what we do in DDO, where we slot all our swapping gear onto hotbars.
I do hope to see some sort of system that allows easy swapping between preset gear-sets and individual pieces, as well as quick ways to change your appearance to presets as well, whether through cosmetic items or whatever system we will have for cosmetics. In this though, I do also hope that there is not an emphasis on needing a ton of different weapons and things, as that detracts from the D&D feel quite majorly. I could only imagine if I allowed my players to carry as much gear as is needed to be effective in DDO...
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Let's not forget there are some very important practical applications for hotbars beyond the nightmare DDO created.
I will always have both a ranged and melee weapon on all characters. We shouldn't be switching helmets, gloves and boots all the time like we find in DDO by any means but the simple matter is there should be at least 2-3 weapons for each character (not counting dual-wileding)
Furthermore wizards and rogues are very much masters of trinkets. They should be walking arsenals with items to help in every situation. That's not something DDO perverted. See characters like Pharaun, Valas Hune, or Jarlaxle. Reach into their batman utility belts and save the day.
Hotbars exist for purposes beyond switcvhing armors to be effective. That is one of the flaws in DDO which keeps me from overly enjoying that game...
But these features are found in every D&D game right back to Baldur's Gate because they are so key to the game itself.
You should always be allowed one ranged and one melee weapon at all times as ranged weapon is usually flung behind shoulders while using melee. Armor etc. is in the bag so it should be changeable only after encounters.
Changing armor in combat is a never and should always remain that way.
But it's not uncommon to have several weapons to alternate to.
I wouldn't mind limitations to only being able to have two melee quick slots and two ranged slots but to limit it to one each doesn't make sense to me. Even if it's only a dagger characters always have two forms of melee weapons on them.
Gandalf uses a staff and Glamdring. Ryld uses Splitter (2h), a shortsword and has daggers.
While I can see limitations on having only one two handed weapon for melee and ranged combat I think a player should be allowed to select from 2 medium sized (combinations) and several small sized (trinkets should be considered small weapons)
To say players shouldn't be swapping weapons would be an injustice to D&D. Not all should be in hands reach but certainly more than one for each melee and ranged.
Personally I'd be the guy with a bow strapped over the shoulders, one medium sized weapon on each hip, an additional short sword on one side and a selection of throwing daggers in easy reach. I would never assume I wouldn't be disarmed in a fight...and while a bow works great at range a nice dagger in the face can set up for a good sword thrust.
Weapons quick swapable slots on the char sheet, maybe even graphic on char like sword in belt, bow over back sort of thing?
Armor swapping "during" a fight isn't prohibited in DDO, but it is a time consuming thing and if you get smacked, you have to start over. But weapons, rings, really any other item, is an instant switch (or so fast as I don't notice a timer at all).
I just hope that in NWO, Cryptic can find a great way to manage something like this. Really, it should be very fast to change one sword from another because it's on your belt/back and positioned specifically for quick access in a fight. All other things would be in bags or pouches on your belt. So to swap a magic ring during a fight, conceivably you would have to put down your weapons, remove your glove, dig into either a bag or a belt pouch, put the ring on, put your glove back on, then ready your weapon again. Instant? Hardly. Try it yourself... then imagine you are being chased by something that wants to eat you. I'd say at the very least there should be a fumble check in there eh?
b:surrender
I'm glad this got people thinking about it. It's a game convenience that disrupts believability (for me).
Mind a "utilility belt" does spring to mind for putting items like potions, dust, trinket and such like in and attach too (weapons) and or pouch in bags for quick access. But yes I would not want that many, perhaps adds to the thinking about what you are going to do abit.
Yeah I have to agree with gilrmn on this one I just never liked seeing these rapid switch outfits and gear choices it's not like everyone has a bag of holding and even if they did it should take time to rummage around to find what you want which would be impractical.
Either way, it was a really great feature that I recall fondly. Money wasn't included if memory serves, but there was no way to carry around 30 suites of full plate armor. You couldn't walk.
Yes, I think maybe that was added in the HCR mod in NWN.
I liked that.
Also, didn't Baldur's Gate have weight restriction?
They were still not smart enough. Think like this. Everytime I hit the mage, he has a red colored cloth armor, but everytime the mage hits me he had red colored robes.
But maybe I am wrong.
The interface we saw in the videos did include that, just to the right of the main skill bar. 4-5 slots, IIRC.
@aescleal: Just about every D&D CRPG I've played had that restriction. Depending on how it's handled, it can be a boon or a curse.
I want my wizard wearing a suit of Jim Lee/Rob Liefeld style pouches. I want so many pouches I need a pouch to contain them.
Now if we will need 47 rings, boots, etc. like in DDO for the clickies, I have no idea, but at least we will not need an entire bag full of swords just so that we can cross the street.
Very true and it looks like D&D next isn't bringing that mechanic backs any time soon.
I definitely support this. It encourages a be-ready-for-anything mindset for people new to certain delves, while allowing people who repeat a delve to make more efficient encounters by specializing for specific sections of a dungeon or perhaps even a boss. It's an idea that seems appealing to me, as I won't feel pressured to carry around equipment "just in case".
Yes, preparing at campfire while swapping armor as well as at-wills, utilities etc. is a good idea.
Also, damn you all for making me say this, but Daggerdale was good regarding this. All the PC had one melee and one ranged shot available apart from ranged and melee powers.
But I am still all in for picking up any weapon from the ground during combat, even enviornmental weapons like barrels etc. but not from bag. Bag is kept down when you start to fight. Utility belt is already full of consumables like potions, arrows etc. Anything else to utility belt should reduce mobility by a lot (as long as your mount is not batmobile).
LMAO, what about Whilce Portacio?
Which is why I say it should be limited to two ranged and two melee setups.
I agree it makes no sense to allow a person to strap on ten different weapons across their body. Just having two on each hip running around the Ren Fair is hassle enough for me in real life to know that the most I could practically fit is one more sword, a bow across my back and if I wanted to go all out a throwing dagger bandoleer. Anything more would just be outright impractical and would be better put into a pack.
I just thought of something else as well...being that the mouse aims the player and nothing can be automated...
There's very little chance a pack could even be opened during combat at all.
That in itself, to me, dictates that some hotbars must already exist for potions, wands and magical devices/triggers if for no other purpose.
Yeah most of the gear swapping in ddo is just weapons for dr bypassing etc, as to the rest the "armor" itself can't really be swapped during combat unless your using pajamas, and type of real armor has timer on it as it swaps in.
Can't say i know many peeps that walk around with different armors but i do know some that walk around with a buttload of weapon sets and various other items for the clickies.
On the whole i wouldn't mind some limited swapping but lets keep it limited!
It gets tiring walking around with greater X bane weapons of blah blah for every single monster or boss you can encounter.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
I don't include him cause often times he was working on stuff that Jim or Rob designed. That and I think for whatever reason Jim and Rob get more credit for things so they should also get credit for the bad stuff too.
I am not a fan of hot swapping gear myself, and actually feel games need to bring back encumbrance. No way I am going to carry around as much as I do in most games. Who is my character supposed to be, Mariusz Pudzianowski? I loved how my old Troll in EQ could barely move when he got his Bronze Armor...stuff was heavy.
Hopefully the game will be a move away from the silly gear treadmills out there, and get back to the older games where you might have the same items for months, and you actually grew fond of them.