1. Customer Service != Devs
Devs != Customer Service
Forum Design really doesn't have a whole lot to do with either the Devs OR Customer Service. That's a whole separate group entirely.
There are many types of developers. I'm a website designer, yet I develop websites, so I'm a developer. I use "dev" interchangeably quite often. I say tomaaato, you say tamoooto. Customer Service is more then just dealing with account issues... it deals with communication throughout the entire company, and with each department's commitment to the end customer.
2. It sounds like you're expecting "compensation" for the forums being changed. That's cute. Like Stormshade said the change had to happen. I know it's weird and different, but given time we'll all get used to the new forums. Customer Service deals with account issues- they're not going to give you a cookie because you're annoyed about some bears.
Compensation? I feel Stormshade has already done that, by offering an apology of sorts. I personally feel the site sucks. Just my opinion. I believe just a few changes however can make it much more bearable (pun unintended, I swear....) I will agree I'll have to get used to it. But, I also believe I can affect change, as can you, or anyone else who offers their opinion. If you are satisfied, thats not a bad thing.
3. Didn't you say you were leaving? Huh. So that was just a ploy to draw attention to the fact that you're not pleased about something.
Fascinating.
Actually I didn't. You need too brush up on that reading comprehension level lil dude - perhaps a book with lots of b:laughb:chuckleb:pleased in them ....
I'm not going anywhere. The community here is great. I happen to be a big fan of Stormshade, and thinks he looks out for us and does his job quite well. Just the mere fact that he said he'd try to address the smilies, when he's got plenty of other stuff to worry about speaks volumes.
I hope we keep that right and can also get the custom avatars too. If we cannot, I hope that at least, once the game launches we get to use our characters as avatars or something like that.
In other PWE games you can use your character as your avatar. So I would assume that the blue dragon is just the default avatar for this game, and we'll be able to select characters once the game launches.
Honestly, I don't really mind the design. It does look like the forums for the other PWE games, which is to be excepted since they run like 13 games and if we got a different forum design all the other games would want them, and I'd rather have the devs working on the games than satisfying picky people on forums. Honestly, I was hoping these forums would have less whiners than the Forsaken World one since the player base is generally older, but oh well.
My primary concern is the game at this point. If the smilies bother you (this is aimed at anyone, not necessarily OP) then don't use them.
This site matches other Perfect World sites. I don't care about the site, I care about the game. And I'm 37. b:chuckle
Exactly!
And by the way, what was that other people were saying about having to re-register or something? Is that just if you registered before to receive updates via email, or is that re-registering for the forums? It sounded like the latter, but that didn't happen to me so I was thinking it might be the former.
In other PWE games you can use your character as your avatar. So I would assume that the blue dragon is just the default avatar for this game, and we'll be able to select characters once the game launches.
Honestly, I don't really mind the design. It does look like the forums for the other PWE games, which is to be excepted since they run like 13 games and if we got a different forum design all the other games would want them, and I'd rather have the devs working on the games than satisfying picky people on forums. Honestly, I was hoping these forums would have less whiners than the Forsaken World one since the player base is generally older, but oh well.
My primary concern is the game at this point. If the smilies bother you (this is aimed at anyone, not necessarily OP) then don't use them.
I think you have not be following discussions before the website update, so you fail to understand underlying concern. I will try to summarize the 'stuff' in brief.
This game is quite important to D&D fans. However, many games which tried to copy pnp style faced a lot of problems. Usually they went or were about to go bust. DDO, for eg, barely survived.
Apart from this, model of this new game is f2p (and cryptic was previously owned by Atari). There is a thread saying that this game should be p2p - in that the community agreed that there is a need for proactive positive publicity. This is because f2p model is based on how many people you can pull, and for how long.
Though PAX feedback was good, still there are many negatives attached unfairly - Atari, delaying the game for an year etc. So many people who are D&D fans and can contribute by putting their time to design quality campaigns based on fluff (lore).
Now I think you are getting where I am going after rising these concerns. Though new players are important, you need D&D fans to get to this game too. For that, you don't need anything to put them off. For e.g. if you are a guild-leader of D&D based guild, it would be hard to make them take this game very seriously if the forums are full of burning bears. Of-course, it is just an example, its just not bears - its just that bears are most visible. Slowly it will become - forums are not user-friendly. This will add to negatives.
Negatives for a f2p game delayed an year (or more) before even it comes out is not something desirable.
EDIT: And ofc, the forums as of now are lacking polish. There are a lot of small things here and there which are not good. But I believe that slowly it will work out.
And by the way, what was that other people were saying about having to re-register or something? Is that just if you registered before to receive updates via email, or is that re-registering for the forums? It sounded like the latter, but that didn't happen to me so I was thinking it might be the former.
You don't need to be concerned about it if you don't know what it is. Cryptic was different from PWE (owned by atari) when forums started and those old accounts need to be made into PWE.
EDIT: And ofc, the forums as of now are lacking polish. There are a lot of small things here and there which are not good. But I believe that slowly it will work out.
Very well put. And I agree, in time I believe it will work out fine. As long as each of us speaks out and contributes somehow, I think we can all share in the satisfaction that we made a small difference in what's soon to be a great game and great website.
Ok guys, please take this site down again - and keep it down, until you folks are prepared to deliver a professional product.
You have lost 99% of the vibrant small community you did have. Furthermore, I think an apology is due to each and every potential Neverwinter gamer who decides to come back.
Unless those bears smilies disappear, I think my days on this site are about numbered.
I think the new site looks good. The DDO forums don't really look much different - red on black/gray. I certainly wouldn't use them as the hallmark of a well designed website. I feel like the OP is over-reacting a bit with that. b:chuckle
I've lurked for a while now but haven't posted on the forums and I can understand what a bummer it is if you've lost some forum posts and identities and everything feels strange. However, I've also done a lot of data migrations between different backends and know how very hard it can be to move stuff between two system. b:shocked At least the old info is still here.
As for the bear smilies... b:dirty b:bye hahahaha... just roll and have fun with what you've got.
I think the new site looks good. The DDO forums don't really look much different - red on black/gray. I certainly wouldn't use them as the hallmark of a well designed website. ...
I was going to agree with you as DDO is antique kind of game but decided to go back and check DDO site for once. And now I disagree
- A single color is not dominating. Shades of grey blend well to the site design.
- The row heights are excellent
- If you scroll up and bottom of this forums website - there is a lot of empty space. All elements aligned left or right or not there at all (empty rows). You won't find it in that website's forums.
- There is a general feeling of compactness and polish
- No comment on color or themes as these depend on game theme. DDO it seems has dark red, while NWO has brown or yellowish orange sort of theme.
- Content is well organised, though NWO doesn't have content, but I hope they start making compact folders. So instead of folders on ftr/clr/rog/wiz they should have folders named - classes, races, foundry - with consequent sub-folders.
Good thing is that these things aren't backend related and should be do-able with good design of website. So as I said before, with time ...
MY concern is if they are this far outta touch with the core player base, what other snafu's can we expect.
Bahamut ruling the second plane of Hell anyone ???????
Does anyone working on this Actually have any D&D experience ??????
Would love to see some Homage to Gary Gygax as well. Gygax the elder say, to provide new comers with helpful tips. Things that would tie and draw in those of us that can remember campaigns such as "Keep on the Boarderlands"
@GM's, Mod's and Dev's, You do relize you are facing a community that is well versed on existing lore and you can't just make stuff up. Unless you love grief and looking foolish alot.
MY concern is if they are this far outta touch with the core player base, what other snafu's can we expect.
Bahamut ruling the second plane of Hell anyone ???????
Does anyone working on this Actually have any D&D experience ??????
Would love to see some Homage to Gary Gygax as well. Gygax the elder say, to provide new comers with helpful tips. Things that would tie and draw in those of us that can remember campaigns such as "Keep on the Boarderlands"
@GM's, Mod's and Dev's, You do relize you are facing a community that is well versed on existing lore and you can't just make stuff up. Unless you love grief and looking foolish alot.
Actually if you bother to read articles you would know that the people at Cryptic have extensive PnP experience. And really how is a web design reflect the game? Especially since whoever did the webdesign doesn't touch any game developments.
As for making one look foolish you did that on your own just now. Cryptic can't **** and wipe their own HAMSTER when it comes to the FR as everything has to be O.K.ed by em.
Actually if you bother to read articles you would know that the people at Cryptic have extensive PnP experience. And really how is a web design reflect the game? Especially since whoever did the webdesign doesn't touch any game developments.
As for making one look foolish you did that on your own just now. Cryptic can't **** and wipe their own HAMSTER when it comes to the FR as everything has to be O.K.ed by em.
Not only did you take my statement out of context, you made several assumptions that you can not prove. Anyone can claim to have extensive Knowledge of a subject, But only time and future actions can prove this to be true. Of Course they are gonna claim to be experts in all aspects of the game and it's history. Simple human Pride forces this from them.
If you had read the entire thread you would have seen that the tenor and concerns of many was not the silly web page , but how well the people in charge understand the player base they are now faced with. Also I Asked questions and did not phrase them into declarative demeaning statements as you did in your assault of my post. Nor did I have to sink to vulgarity to get my point across.
"I believe nothing i read, and only half of what i see"
Walt Whitman
If you have to advertise, Your not Famous !!!!!!!
0
r555555555555555Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2012
I think it looks like s*** on a shingle imo but, the forum design is the least thing I'm concerned about. This whole ltpw assemilation has me bent. I know they own it but, did they really have to s*** all over it? Everything was fine until yesterday. They own Champions. They didn't change that forum. At least not yet.
Not only did you take my statement out of context, you made several assumptions that you can not prove. Anyone can claim to have extensive Knowledge of a subject, But only time and future actions can prove this to be true. Of Course they are gonna claim to be experts in all aspects of the game and it's history. Simple human Pride forces this from them.
If you had read the entire thread you would have seen that the tenor and concerns of many was not the silly web page , but how well the people in charge understand the player base they are now faced with. Also I Asked questions and did not phrase them into declarative demeaning statements as you did in your assault of my post. Nor did I have to sink to vulgarity to get my point across.
Well If you really believed that "only time and future actions can prove" Cryptic's knowledge of D&D, then your questions were disingenuous.
Furthermore, while it is true that some concerns were about Cryptic/PWE's understanding of the player base, those concerns came about via the new website design. All that follows from that was a failure to understand how much the player base cared about the forum design. It doesn't follow that the devs lack understanding of D&D. Nothing we've seen from their interviews or convention demos points to a "smiley bear" moment.
I not trying to be heavy handed or single anyone out, but some of the comments in this thread are hyperbolic in the bad sense and would have been better left unsaid. They don't serve our community.
Other concerns are perfectly reasonable of course. We should be sober enough to post what really matters.
I am not that thrilled with the new site, but I can live with it. I could do without the bears, personally.
The biggest issue for me is that I lost my login. I tried to merge, etc. and was told that my cryptic login was already tied to a pwe acct, yet no email that I have works to get the details of that acct.
I submitted a ticket, will have to wait 3-4 days for first response, then I guess it will be a 3-4 day cycle back and forth before being told to suck it or something. :0(
I hope we start seeing more information soon, some good news would be nice.
While the game is called Neverwinter, and it takes place in the same setting and locale as the older NWN games, we are not making a Neverwinter Nights game. We've done our best to make this clear, and we'll continue to work on that.
Here's a thought to ponder Stormshade, and I say this with a great deal of respect for you, and the best wishes for this game.
This will be the remaining question, long after the graphic design team is done working on making this site ready for prime time. I feel it has a chance to haunt you guys for as long as the game is in existence, if not long after that. Why ?
Naturally you arent making Neverwinter Nights III. But I suggest a team meeting here to discuss the PR of how this question is handled in the future.
For example, I look at Neverwinter as a D&D computer game first. Then as an online game, Then as an MMO. I played both Neverwinter Nights games, but Im actually looking for a more team or party oriented game with real life people to share adventures with. For me its as close to tabletop as it gets without calling up my buddies in the old neighborhood and ordering pizza and Mountain Dew.
There are some who solely want a Neverwinter Nights game, and are willing to deal with moving into the MMO genre, crossing their fingers it will feel close enough to D&D to wet their appetite.
You have your table toppers, who have been playing on and off for 10, 20, 30 years. I've been playing since 1977 for example. This group will want you to stick as close to D&D as possible. Many will probably be ok with D&D inspired. But inspired means inspired. Its still has to FEEL like you are playing D&D.
Some are just from other PW or Cryptic games and just want a fun game. Many of these folks wont really care how close it sticks with D&D lore.
Add dozens of similar profiles with various likes and experiences of varying degrees to the examples I gave, and its clear you have a metric forkton of reasons people are here.
However, they can all read the title. NEVERWINTER. Few people here (that Ive read) are under the belief that you are making a Neverwinter Nights III RPG.
I feel you are running the risk of turning people off before the game even hits the ground running.
I know what I'm looking for. I want the D&D experience. I want the Neverwinter Nights feel, in a modern day MMO. I'm very flexible, and dont wish to just see a DDO port. But I am looking for a game BETTER then DDO. More open than Neverwinter Nights was (even if I'll lose much of the homey feel and features of an RPG.
I would personally use terms like "This is not an RPG, its an MMO." Telling a NWN player of many years that this isnt Neverinter Nights, when the game is CALLED Neverwinter is just not the right way to sell this game imho.
To the fancy suits: If you dont wish to be compared to Neverwinter Nights, then CHANGE THE NAME OF THE GAME. People will think D&D and they will think Neverwinter Nights until the day they quit playing the game.
I agreed with Poon for the most part, but the Cryptic teams knowledge and appreciation of D&D is strong. There's no question about that.
Cryptic I believe are the good guys and will be considered the good guys for the long haul, long after the game begins.
PW however is the company that will have to prove their weight with me. If PW ties Cryptics hands or decides to turn this into p2w like many of their games, it could be a nightmare for players. I saw what Atari did to DDO and Neverwinter. Now its PW's chance in the spotlight.
My hope is that PW + CRYPTIC + THE PLAYERS = Success. It will take all three entities to arrive at the end chest.
It is too late for a name change Andre. I mentioned way back at the start that they should have called Forgotten Realms Online or something like that in order to prevent the very thing they are facing now (comparisons with NWN).
We all know why they took the Neverwinter name: to cash in on the NeverWinter label recognition.
But with the Pax reveal, etc. I would say it is a bit late to change names.
Personally, i am really really really hoping for a great game, but I am somewhat apprehensive at the same time. Call it very guarded optimism. )
It is too late for a name change Andre. I mentioned way back at the start that they should have called Forgotten Realms Online or something like that in order to prevent the very thing they are facing now (comparisons with NWN).
We all know why they took the Neverwinter name: to cash in on the NeverWinter label recognition.
But with the Pax reveal, etc. I would say it is a bit late to change names.
Personally, i am really really really hoping for a great game, but I am somewhat apprehensive at the same time. Call it very guarded optimism. )
Yeah, I am STILL cautiously optimistic that this will be a great game. I am still pumped up, still positive.
As for a name change, I think it would be a PR snafu as much as a legal snafu at this point, so naturally the name wont change. However, I think with good communication all around, Cryptic can make the greatest majority of gamers happy. Just like you Razor, I know I'm more then ready to start having some fun in Neverwinter!
I agreed with Poon for the most part, but the Cryptic teams knowledge and appreciation of D&D is strong. There's no question about that.
Cryptic I believe are the good guys and will be considered the good guys for the long haul, long after the game begins.
PW however is the company that will have to prove their weight with me. If PW ties Cryptics hands or decides to turn this into p2w like many of their games, it could be a nightmare for players. I saw what Atari did to DDO and Neverwinter. Now its PW's chance in the spotlight.
My hope is that PW + CRYPTIC + THE PLAYERS = Success. It will take all three entities to arrive at the end chest.
Yeah, I agree totally. I really hope this game is great. I just do not like ltpw assemilation of the original forums. They could have just kept it the way it was as they did w/Champions.
- If you scroll up and bottom of this forums website - there is a lot of empty space.
Ah -- scrolling. THAT is my issue. I don't have a 30" screen, but I shouldn't have to to avoid the problem I'm having.
Every page I go to, the very first thing I have to do is scroll down. Even to post this reply, I had to scroll down to get to the text field. There's far too much static space at the top of the page. I should be able to read at least one post, and maybe two or three, without clicking a button or scrolling. As it is, I can see a line or two and that's all.
And yes, add me to the list of people who despise the cutesy bears. D&D to me isn't cutesy. If I want cutesy I'll play Care Bears Online. As someone said, the site has sadly missed it's target demographic with these smileys.
I can live with the no custom avatar if usability is fixed. Having worked in UI design some, usability is one of my hot buttons.
Can't say I like the emotes but that is honestly minor IMO, I'm more bummed that we lost our old forum handles and that just getting a PWE account is like pulling teeth and god help you if you ever have to change your password.
I also notic there is no way to ignore or report other posts which will mean we will have 4chan here as soon as the Trolls find it. One thing Cryptic has to learn you can't roll out something that isn't fully functional and ready to go it can't be half HAMSTER, that goes for the game as well as the community tools.
and god help you if you ever have to change your password.
?
I had no trouble changing the password of the PWE account. It felt quite standard procedure. I had lots more of trouble deciding about new user/forum names. b:angry b:angry b:angry
?
I had no trouble changing the password of the PWE account. It felt quite standard procedure. I had lots more of trouble deciding about new user/forum names. b:angry b:angry b:angry
I had a devil of a time and so has a lot of folks I have talked to...but yeah forum names were big let down and now my forum name makes me look like a d00d. b:angry
I'm a 35 year old man. Using these smilies feels stupid. Regular ones would have been fine. But it's not just the smilies that are the problem. It's everything else:
-lost cryptic user name
-lost post count
-lost original join date
-lost ability to choose ANY avatar
-the forum colors/layout is just kinda meh
-and of course cute smilies to match my hello kitty pajamas
^^^This^^^
cept I'm 42.... just a touch further away from connecting w/the cutesie imagery.
I don't do cute & snuggly
I have walked through the Valley of Death and emerged the Shadow of Evil
The Gene Pool needs chlorine
I would personally use terms like "This is not an RPG, its an MMO." Telling a NWN player of many years that this isnt Neverinter Nights, when the game is CALLED Neverwinter is just not the right way to sell this game imho.
To the fancy suits: If you dont wish to be compared to Neverwinter Nights, then CHANGE THE NAME OF THE GAME. People will think D&D and they will think Neverwinter Nights until the day they quit playing the game.
Just food for thought.
I was with you right up till here Andre, saying this isn't X has issues of it's own; I remember when Raph Koster told fans on the SWG beta forum that "they weren't building a game for Star Wars fans, that they were building a game for MMO fans", that statement Haunted SOE until the day they shut down the last SWG server, a few years later Koster said it was one of the stupidest things he ever said.
MMO's have to attract a diverse audience to survive these days and Neverwinter (from what folks who played at PAX EAST have told me) has RPG elements.....so telling people this isn't a RPG basically gives the finger to an entire demographic.
Telling people what a game is or isn't is not the best way to go IMO, list the features build the best game you can and let the fans decide what the game is about, because a lot of hardcore D&D fans are going to hate it regardless because it isn't a D&D simulator.
Comments
Glad ya like it. Your opinion is just as important as mines.
There are many types of developers. I'm a website designer, yet I develop websites, so I'm a developer. I use "dev" interchangeably quite often. I say tomaaato, you say tamoooto. Customer Service is more then just dealing with account issues... it deals with communication throughout the entire company, and with each department's commitment to the end customer.
Compensation? I feel Stormshade has already done that, by offering an apology of sorts. I personally feel the site sucks. Just my opinion. I believe just a few changes however can make it much more bearable (pun unintended, I swear....) I will agree I'll have to get used to it. But, I also believe I can affect change, as can you, or anyone else who offers their opinion. If you are satisfied, thats not a bad thing.
Actually I didn't. You need too brush up on that reading comprehension level lil dude - perhaps a book with lots of b:laughb:chuckleb:pleased in them ....
I'm not going anywhere. The community here is great. I happen to be a big fan of Stormshade, and thinks he looks out for us and does his job quite well. Just the mere fact that he said he'd try to address the smilies, when he's got plenty of other stuff to worry about speaks volumes.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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In other PWE games you can use your character as your avatar. So I would assume that the blue dragon is just the default avatar for this game, and we'll be able to select characters once the game launches.
Honestly, I don't really mind the design. It does look like the forums for the other PWE games, which is to be excepted since they run like 13 games and if we got a different forum design all the other games would want them, and I'd rather have the devs working on the games than satisfying picky people on forums. Honestly, I was hoping these forums would have less whiners than the Forsaken World one since the player base is generally older, but oh well.
My primary concern is the game at this point. If the smilies bother you (this is aimed at anyone, not necessarily OP) then don't use them.
That's the important thing. b:victory b:pleased
Exactly!
And by the way, what was that other people were saying about having to re-register or something? Is that just if you registered before to receive updates via email, or is that re-registering for the forums? It sounded like the latter, but that didn't happen to me so I was thinking it might be the former.
I think you have not be following discussions before the website update, so you fail to understand underlying concern. I will try to summarize the 'stuff' in brief.
This game is quite important to D&D fans. However, many games which tried to copy pnp style faced a lot of problems. Usually they went or were about to go bust. DDO, for eg, barely survived.
Apart from this, model of this new game is f2p (and cryptic was previously owned by Atari). There is a thread saying that this game should be p2p - in that the community agreed that there is a need for proactive positive publicity. This is because f2p model is based on how many people you can pull, and for how long.
Though PAX feedback was good, still there are many negatives attached unfairly - Atari, delaying the game for an year etc. So many people who are D&D fans and can contribute by putting their time to design quality campaigns based on fluff (lore).
Now I think you are getting where I am going after rising these concerns. Though new players are important, you need D&D fans to get to this game too. For that, you don't need anything to put them off. For e.g. if you are a guild-leader of D&D based guild, it would be hard to make them take this game very seriously if the forums are full of burning bears. Of-course, it is just an example, its just not bears - its just that bears are most visible. Slowly it will become - forums are not user-friendly. This will add to negatives.
Negatives for a f2p game delayed an year (or more) before even it comes out is not something desirable.
EDIT: And ofc, the forums as of now are lacking polish. There are a lot of small things here and there which are not good. But I believe that slowly it will work out.
You don't need to be concerned about it if you don't know what it is. Cryptic was different from PWE (owned by atari) when forums started and those old accounts need to be made into PWE.
Very well put. And I agree, in time I believe it will work out fine. As long as each of us speaks out and contributes somehow, I think we can all share in the satisfaction that we made a small difference in what's soon to be a great game and great website.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Is OP drunk?
I've lurked for a while now but haven't posted on the forums and I can understand what a bummer it is if you've lost some forum posts and identities and everything feels strange. However, I've also done a lot of data migrations between different backends and know how very hard it can be to move stuff between two system. b:shocked At least the old info is still here.
As for the bear smilies... b:dirty b:bye hahahaha... just roll and have fun with what you've got.
I was going to agree with you as DDO is antique kind of game but decided to go back and check DDO site for once. And now I disagree
- A single color is not dominating. Shades of grey blend well to the site design.
- The row heights are excellent
- If you scroll up and bottom of this forums website - there is a lot of empty space. All elements aligned left or right or not there at all (empty rows). You won't find it in that website's forums.
- There is a general feeling of compactness and polish
- No comment on color or themes as these depend on game theme. DDO it seems has dark red, while NWO has brown or yellowish orange sort of theme.
- Content is well organised, though NWO doesn't have content, but I hope they start making compact folders. So instead of folders on ftr/clr/rog/wiz they should have folders named - classes, races, foundry - with consequent sub-folders.
Good thing is that these things aren't backend related and should be do-able with good design of website. So as I said before, with time ...
Bahamut ruling the second plane of Hell anyone ???????
Does anyone working on this Actually have any D&D experience ??????
Would love to see some Homage to Gary Gygax as well. Gygax the elder say, to provide new comers with helpful tips. Things that would tie and draw in those of us that can remember campaigns such as "Keep on the Boarderlands"
@GM's, Mod's and Dev's, You do relize you are facing a community that is well versed on existing lore and you can't just make stuff up. Unless you love grief and looking foolish alot.
Actually if you bother to read articles you would know that the people at Cryptic have extensive PnP experience. And really how is a web design reflect the game? Especially since whoever did the webdesign doesn't touch any game developments.
As for making one look foolish you did that on your own just now. Cryptic can't **** and wipe their own HAMSTER when it comes to the FR as everything has to be O.K.ed by em.
Not only did you take my statement out of context, you made several assumptions that you can not prove. Anyone can claim to have extensive Knowledge of a subject, But only time and future actions can prove this to be true. Of Course they are gonna claim to be experts in all aspects of the game and it's history. Simple human Pride forces this from them.
If you had read the entire thread you would have seen that the tenor and concerns of many was not the silly web page , but how well the people in charge understand the player base they are now faced with. Also I Asked questions and did not phrase them into declarative demeaning statements as you did in your assault of my post. Nor did I have to sink to vulgarity to get my point across.
"I believe nothing i read, and only half of what i see"
Walt Whitman
Yeah, charge my zen.
BlueEyedDevil
Well If you really believed that "only time and future actions can prove" Cryptic's knowledge of D&D, then your questions were disingenuous.
Furthermore, while it is true that some concerns were about Cryptic/PWE's understanding of the player base, those concerns came about via the new website design. All that follows from that was a failure to understand how much the player base cared about the forum design. It doesn't follow that the devs lack understanding of D&D. Nothing we've seen from their interviews or convention demos points to a "smiley bear" moment.
I not trying to be heavy handed or single anyone out, but some of the comments in this thread are hyperbolic in the bad sense and would have been better left unsaid. They don't serve our community.
Other concerns are perfectly reasonable of course. We should be sober enough to post what really matters.
The biggest issue for me is that I lost my login. I tried to merge, etc. and was told that my cryptic login was already tied to a pwe acct, yet no email that I have works to get the details of that acct.
I submitted a ticket, will have to wait 3-4 days for first response, then I guess it will be a 3-4 day cycle back and forth before being told to suck it or something. :0(
I hope we start seeing more information soon, some good news would be nice.
Here's a thought to ponder Stormshade, and I say this with a great deal of respect for you, and the best wishes for this game.
This will be the remaining question, long after the graphic design team is done working on making this site ready for prime time. I feel it has a chance to haunt you guys for as long as the game is in existence, if not long after that. Why ?
Naturally you arent making Neverwinter Nights III. But I suggest a team meeting here to discuss the PR of how this question is handled in the future.
For example, I look at Neverwinter as a D&D computer game first. Then as an online game, Then as an MMO. I played both Neverwinter Nights games, but Im actually looking for a more team or party oriented game with real life people to share adventures with. For me its as close to tabletop as it gets without calling up my buddies in the old neighborhood and ordering pizza and Mountain Dew.
There are some who solely want a Neverwinter Nights game, and are willing to deal with moving into the MMO genre, crossing their fingers it will feel close enough to D&D to wet their appetite.
You have your table toppers, who have been playing on and off for 10, 20, 30 years. I've been playing since 1977 for example. This group will want you to stick as close to D&D as possible. Many will probably be ok with D&D inspired. But inspired means inspired. Its still has to FEEL like you are playing D&D.
Some are just from other PW or Cryptic games and just want a fun game. Many of these folks wont really care how close it sticks with D&D lore.
Add dozens of similar profiles with various likes and experiences of varying degrees to the examples I gave, and its clear you have a metric forkton of reasons people are here.
However, they can all read the title. NEVERWINTER. Few people here (that Ive read) are under the belief that you are making a Neverwinter Nights III RPG.
I feel you are running the risk of turning people off before the game even hits the ground running.
I know what I'm looking for. I want the D&D experience. I want the Neverwinter Nights feel, in a modern day MMO. I'm very flexible, and dont wish to just see a DDO port. But I am looking for a game BETTER then DDO. More open than Neverwinter Nights was (even if I'll lose much of the homey feel and features of an RPG.
I would personally use terms like "This is not an RPG, its an MMO." Telling a NWN player of many years that this isnt Neverinter Nights, when the game is CALLED Neverwinter is just not the right way to sell this game imho.
To the fancy suits: If you dont wish to be compared to Neverwinter Nights, then CHANGE THE NAME OF THE GAME. People will think D&D and they will think Neverwinter Nights until the day they quit playing the game.
Just food for thought.
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I agreed with Poon for the most part, but the Cryptic teams knowledge and appreciation of D&D is strong. There's no question about that.
Cryptic I believe are the good guys and will be considered the good guys for the long haul, long after the game begins.
PW however is the company that will have to prove their weight with me. If PW ties Cryptics hands or decides to turn this into p2w like many of their games, it could be a nightmare for players. I saw what Atari did to DDO and Neverwinter. Now its PW's chance in the spotlight.
My hope is that PW + CRYPTIC + THE PLAYERS = Success. It will take all three entities to arrive at the end chest.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
We all know why they took the Neverwinter name: to cash in on the NeverWinter label recognition.
But with the Pax reveal, etc. I would say it is a bit late to change names.
Personally, i am really really really hoping for a great game, but I am somewhat apprehensive at the same time. Call it very guarded optimism.
Yeah, I am STILL cautiously optimistic that this will be a great game. I am still pumped up, still positive.
As for a name change, I think it would be a PR snafu as much as a legal snafu at this point, so naturally the name wont change. However, I think with good communication all around, Cryptic can make the greatest majority of gamers happy. Just like you Razor, I know I'm more then ready to start having some fun in Neverwinter!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Yeah, I agree totally. I really hope this game is great. I just do not like ltpw assemilation of the original forums. They could have just kept it the way it was as they did w/Champions.
Every page I go to, the very first thing I have to do is scroll down. Even to post this reply, I had to scroll down to get to the text field. There's far too much static space at the top of the page. I should be able to read at least one post, and maybe two or three, without clicking a button or scrolling. As it is, I can see a line or two and that's all.
And yes, add me to the list of people who despise the cutesy bears. D&D to me isn't cutesy. If I want cutesy I'll play Care Bears Online. As someone said, the site has sadly missed it's target demographic with these smileys.
I can live with the no custom avatar if usability is fixed. Having worked in UI design some, usability is one of my hot buttons.
I also notic there is no way to ignore or report other posts which will mean we will have 4chan here as soon as the Trolls find it. One thing Cryptic has to learn you can't roll out something that isn't fully functional and ready to go it can't be half HAMSTER, that goes for the game as well as the community tools.
I had no trouble changing the password of the PWE account. It felt quite standard procedure. I had lots more of trouble deciding about new user/forum names. b:angry b:angry b:angry
I had a devil of a time and so has a lot of folks I have talked to...but yeah forum names were big let down and now my forum name makes me look like a d00d. b:angry
^^^This^^^
cept I'm 42.... just a touch further away from connecting w/the cutesie imagery.
I don't do cute & snuggly
The Gene Pool needs chlorine
I have no problem with cute and snuggly.....just keep it out of my D&D.
I was with you right up till here Andre, saying this isn't X has issues of it's own; I remember when Raph Koster told fans on the SWG beta forum that "they weren't building a game for Star Wars fans, that they were building a game for MMO fans", that statement Haunted SOE until the day they shut down the last SWG server, a few years later Koster said it was one of the stupidest things he ever said.
MMO's have to attract a diverse audience to survive these days and Neverwinter (from what folks who played at PAX EAST have told me) has RPG elements.....so telling people this isn't a RPG basically gives the finger to an entire demographic.
Telling people what a game is or isn't is not the best way to go IMO, list the features build the best game you can and let the fans decide what the game is about, because a lot of hardcore D&D fans are going to hate it regardless because it isn't a D&D simulator.