I have no problem with cute and snuggly.....just keep it out of my D&D.
If Wizards were (like some) japanese (manga/anime producers)... 4E would have looked like this (probably with less clothing and bigger "HAMSTER")
and we would get stuff like Priestess class (bears are fine compared to that XD )
If Wizards were (like some) japanese (manga/anime producers)... 4E would have looked like this (probably with less clothing and bigger "HAMSTER")
and we would get stuff like Priestess class (bears are fine compared to that XD )
I'm sorry I know this isn't very hipster of me but I hate loathe and detest that HAMSTER, the very first anime inspired thing I see in this game I'm out.
If Wizards were (like some) japanese (manga/anime producers)... 4E would have looked like this (probably with less clothing and bigger "HAMSTER")
and we would get stuff like Priestess class (bears are fine compared to that XD )
If Wizards were (like some) japanese (manga/anime producers)... 4E would have looked like this (probably with less clothing and bigger "HAMSTER")
and we would get stuff like Priestess class (bears are fine compared to that XD )
Haha. Where did you find that? That was quite funny. But that said, I am hopeful that it won't turn into something like this because they said in interview that devs themselves are D&D fans (link)
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gothisphereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2012
It's a website. No big deal and not worth getting excited about.
Read manga - Berserk - then say whether it's HAMSTER.
It honestly depends on what they are inspired by. The art doesn't fit into this kind of game, but some storytellings are nice
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shiaikaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2012
Anime/manga being HAMSTER comment, I take it as the art itself and not the stories. I think its too extreme to categorize all of it as "HAMSTER" but to each his own. About the stories in them, they can be from little children to adults and you won't find them using exactly the same visual styles depending on the audience. Three examples:
"Steins;Gate" (videogame adaptation) is superb in its storyline (not a fan of time travel storylines but this was great, with lots of real science in it) and has a serious anime style.
"Kill Me Baby" (manga/anime) on the other hand, goes for chibi (small, cute) and silly stories.
"Ghost in the Shell" (talking about the manga) has great story (dense in some points) and is quite precise and detailed in its style.
Not reasons enough to change someone's mind and that's not the point. Just saying that not all manga/anime goes for teenagers (harem manga, panty shots...), has huge eyes, includes huge swords or stuff like that. XD
Haha. Where did you find that? That was quite funny. But that said, I am hopeful that it won't turn into something like this because they said in interview that devs themselves are D&D fans (link)
First two pics are Google-Fu result. Third made by me last year.
The post was, obviously, a joke. Manga doesn't fit the general western audience. But you get manga version of Marvel heroes or Star Wars in Japan. Why? Because not all the countries are the same and manga is the way to go there. Cute bear smilies by default for a chinese company? Well, not surprised. XD
To think that some "alien" art may make it into Neverwinter seems unlikely. So far, from what I have seen, it looks safe. But I swear that if it ends like Lineage II and similars where playing a female means to play a HAMSTER with some truly small metal pieces as armour*.... b:angry b:angry b:angry b:angry
* while the males get serious armour. Because if at least everybody looks as a HAMSTER, then... well, it'd be a serious critical hit to credibility but I'd consider it fair.
Owww, can we please get rid of the text box pop up when your cursor hovers over a thread. While I can understand if it was hovering over the words of the thread title but when it's anywhere on the rectangle segment the thread takes then that't too much. Specially a white box pop up with the black back ground....owww
Read manga - Berserk - then say whether it's HAMSTER.
It honestly depends on what they are inspired by. The art doesn't fit into this kind of game, but some storytellings are nice
Ooooo Berserk, wished they continued with a second season T.T
To be honest some of the greatest most in depth character character development comes from Anime and Magma. Robotech, Blue Gene, Full Metal alchemist to name a few.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2012
Took me days before my "name" could be resolved. And by resolved I mean not. Moving on...
I'll keep this on topic which is the website. How the game does or does not do and whether it will look like Anime or not (and if it did I'd go Ghost in the Shell...with real ghosts) can be discussed elsewhere.
It's been said how upsetting it is to lose our forum identities and post links. I'm agreeing not in a sense of e-peen but of feelings of contributions. For instance: I made a newbie post thread I now have to abandon and re-make as a waste of copying because I can never update the first post again let alone delete it. Now imagine a bunch of other threads which are effectively abandoned, not even deletable to start again.
Heck, I would have respected a delete and re-do then having the info mention account-only (not forum) link for clarity then.
The black with no other lines besides a perimeter red makes posts not separate from one another and its Gothic only clashes with the bear iconry. I'm also hoping we can get some more generic (even cartoonish) D&D-related emotes here.
But what's really important is access. We can't easily sort and link the posts like before (and it's harder to track what was updated or new in regards to read,) and cannot report any posts not supposed to be there. Even something as reporting a post to be moved to a new section now becomes a contact us event not a link-click. Why?! As noted, the 7-year DDO forums are much clearer and more customizable; the Champions site didn't get a re-work as well.
So, we're upset on losing our work done here as much as our names, and we need more forum UI control here in my opinion as well as the black being too minimalist and not keeping posts apart well. That's all for here besides saying I dislike it but hope for improvement.
Took me days before my "name" could be resolved. And by resolved I mean not. Moving on...
GREAT to see you back Truth!
I agree with everything you said. You nailed it!
I think much of the old guard here is frustrated, but as Talsic so wisely put it earlier in the thread, we need to find a way to be positive once again.
I think the best way to start cleaning this site up a bit is to announce that they are leaving the old posts up for 60 days. That would give those who took a LOT of their own time posting content for the community plenty of time to recreate their most important threads. Grant it, its not the same, but its something.
Then, purge them all. Having these archived anonymous posts looks ridiculous, and detracts not only from our enjoyment (those that have been around for awhile), but bound to confuse new recruits, who might just leave after not finding what they were looking for.
Have the design team come up with some custom D&D artwork for the site. One background, and full sets of avatars and smilies that cater to 20+ (In many cases 30+) crowd.
I think the best way to start cleaning this site up a bit is to announce that they are leaving the old posts up for 60 days. That would give those who took a LOT of their own time posting content for the community plenty of time to recreate their most important threads. Grant it, its not the same, but its something.
Then, purge them all. Having these archived anonymous posts looks ridiculous, and detracts not only from our enjoyment (those that have been around for awhile), but bound to confuse new recruits, who might just leave after not finding what they were looking for.
Have the design team come up with some custom D&D artwork for the site. One background, and full sets of avatars and smilies that cater to 20+ (In many cases 30+) crowd.
That would be a start, but honestly they need to go a bit further many of us are now quite aware that PWE is running this ship and sorry they are not known for their communities, they are known for giving Zen away in exchange for putting pseudo malware on your computer.
I personally want to feel like Cryptic still has a say and community team that communicates with us regularly (like in STO and CO) and honestly will go a long way in that regard. Can the "we can't talk about that right now" and "soon" BS, because when you hold back from us we know it means that we aren't going to like the answers.
I'm not saying full transparency but you are half a year gone into a schedule that puts your release at the tail end of this year, and unless you are planning to say: "Here it is deal with it", then you are running out of time. I know there are Alpha testers, but unless they are not part of the industry they are going to do you damn little good, the community is going to tear you code apart and tell you what works and what doesn't and most importantly why.
Lastly there are a couple fan sites already popping up and there is no support for them, I already am working on porting my old NWN modules to Neverwinter things like that need to be supported because that is going to be the fan made content that sustains you when players chew through everything you have built in the past three years in two weeks.
You have a community right now, but if you want to keep it things have to change in the next week or two maximum.
Ok guys, please take this site down again - and keep it down, until you folks are prepared to deliver a professional product.
You have lost 99% of the vibrant small community you did have. Furthermore, I think an apology is due to each and every potential Neverwinter gamer who decides to come back.
Unless those bears smilies disappear, I think my days on this site are about numbered.
***
Update: Well, since I originally typed this, some more folks have come back. Still unaccounted for are Truth, Saco, and a score of others. (That 99% figure is probably down to 75ish, maybe?)
As our remaining forumites come back, it will begin to feel a bit more like home again. Once all guildies and forum personalities I'm aware of are accounted for and motivated again, I'll be more settled in.
I do not see anything wrong with the web site. The bear smilies are a bit "childish" but do not bother me, even though I'd expect a bit more maturity from a D&D title. I am sorry, but I simply do not post much in a game that I do not play. I loathe speculation and that is about 95% of any game's topics that are not out of NDA Beta Phases.
I'm sure I'll be more vocal and active once such things change.
have to say the new forums really suck. i cant log in here anymore unless i use frigging IE.
Hell i couldnt even make a new account with pwe untill i tried using IE for some damn reason this sucky site doesn't like FF anymore.
I wonder if any of other like me that have trouble linking there old account has anything to do with what browser we are using.
Btw its Asm0deus here if the new name wasn't enough of a clue, and seriously bears !!!
what do you think we are all 15 year old girls to think that is cute ? If thats what i wanted i would be on hello kitty online or something, just saying
have to say the new forums really suck. i cant log in here anymore unless i use frigging IE.
Hell i couldnt even make a new account with pwe untill i tried using IE for some damn reason this sucky site doesn't like FF anymore.
...
Welcome back. Nice choice of name - very creative
It is opening on opera 11.6 quite nicely. So its strange that FF doesn't work ... are you missing a plugin or an option is disabled?
EDIT: Ah! I see it was about the linking-specific exercise. And regarding bears, almost all (barring a few i don't really care about forums) share that sentiment.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
have to say the new forums really suck. i cant log in here anymore unless i use frigging IE.
Hell i couldnt even make a new account with pwe untill i tried using IE for some damn reason this sucky site doesn't like FF anymore.
I wonder if any of other like me that have trouble linking there old account has anything to do with what browser we are using.
Btw its Asm0deus here if the new name wasn't enough of a clue, and seriously bears !!!
what do you think we are all 15 year old girls to think that is cute ? If thats what i wanted i would be on hello kitty online or something, just saying
Yeah, I was using Chrome when I couldn't log in at ALL and had to finish on IE 9 too. After that linked mess, I could log in w Chrome again, but I still can't get the PWE Submit Ticket button to work on ANY browser, but had to get a new McAfee security program so not sure if that has anything to do w it or not. Everything else on here or PWE's site loads though, including an account link which has another option to submit a ticket.
Oh, and it also locked out my submitted user names and display names when I tried on Chrome so I was stuck w what you see (and a user logon which is dumb but you can't se its name at least.) Getting a "Hmm... When you were using the other browsers, were you going through https://my.perfectworld.com/nw?" did not fill me with confidence. (OF COURSE I DID YOU NINNIES! is what I should have replied to, but I kept it professional.)
I'll skip the bear feedback as that's been done a lot, and if you look carefully on another thread, yu'll find my South Park Easter Egg reaction to the bears thing.
My cryptic account that i used to log in which my forum names was Asm0deus, and a pwe account whcih logged me in as this name pilf3r.
My Asm0deus account is "linked" with an account but i dont know which one.
I do have rusty heart in my pc but havent played thta in ages as it got old kinds fast
I also have a STO account that i can still log into (even with FF).
Anyways this is what is screwy with all this obligatory linking BS they should let us log in with out cryptic account like they do in STO and settle all these shenanigans
Btw i have to log in from here http://www.perfectworld.com/ even with IE or it wont let me log in n says my info is incorrect.
Btw i have to log in from here http://www.perfectworld.com/ even with IE or it wont let me log in n says my info is incorrect.
For normal login? Just downloaded Firefox 12.0 on vista to try it out. (Whats with the new FF? they copied opera's UI?).
Logged in and am posting using ff 12.0
Is this account specific? Shouldn't be a browser issue for normal login if I can post I think.
Anime/manga being HAMSTER comment, I take it as the art itself and not the stories. ...
Not reasons enough to change someone's mind and that's not the point. Just saying that not all manga/anime goes for teenagers (harem manga, panty shots...), has huge eyes, includes huge swords or stuff like that. XD
. ...
...
I like ghost in the shell - one of my favs, especially the old movie.
On topic:- But one has to realize, anime/manga is just an art-form. Anime/manga are basically made for demographics of all age. Many being inappropriate for kids and all. Even anime like - Excel saga - make fun of cute things.
If you think outside the box, it is like saying all movies have sparkly vampires only fit for certain demographics which is unable to make good choices in life.
My point being, stupid things should be universally hated. East, west, south or north.
D&D used to be : -
Characters who were realistic, having an ugly character was alright, good had to work hard to win against evil, and players had to think after making a good choice - was it really good, plus good story telling with thrillers and twists.
What D&D will be when I leave it : -
Only characters with oversized HAMSTER and perfect bodies, sparking streets with sparkly cute drows, when u cut instead of blood rainbow sprouts out, vampires sparkle etc.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2012
One of the first things I do, after a re-installation of Windows, is a total disabling of IE. It literally takes 2-5 seconds, if that, for Chrome to fully load for me. Where as, it can take about 30 seconds for IE to do its initial load. That is with both set to https://encrypted.google.com as the homepage.
I used to use Firefox exclusively, I now use Chrome however for Firefox takes even longer to load than IE. I have been using Chrome for a couple years now. The only issues I have ever had with Chrome have been ones where it was my fault for setting some settings too high or some other user created reason.
I had no problems logging into the forums (Chrome) or the Neverwinter and PWE pages today, for the first time since the new changes here. Of course, I merged my accounts back when they first allowed Cryptic>PWE account mergers, shortly after the acquisition.
Just make sure, chrome users, you have the latest version of Chrome. It's easy to check and update, just click the monkey wrench, then click "About Google Chrome." Aye, it is indeed that easy!
The bears have got to go. They should be replaced by a more D&D themed set of smilies. If no that, then at least something a bit more mature. Indeed.
I like ghost in the shell - one of my favs, especially the old movie.
On topic:- But one has to realize, anime/manga is just an art-form. Anime/manga are basically made for demographics of all age. Many being inappropriate for kids and all. Even anime like - Excel saga - make fun of cute things.
If you think outside the box, it is like saying all movies have sparkly vampires only fit for certain demographics which is unable to make good choices in life.
My point being, stupid things should be universally hated. East, west, south or north.
D&D used to be : -
Characters who were realistic, having an ugly character was alright, good had to work hard to win against evil, and players had to think after making a good choice - was it really good, plus good story telling with thrillers and twists.
What D&D will be when I leave it : -
Only characters with oversized HAMSTER and perfect bodies, sparking streets with sparkly cute drows, when u cut instead of blood rainbow sprouts out, vampires sparkle etc.
When you want to sell something, you want to make it appealing to your target audience. Up to which point depends on many things but in the end, you will try to appeal them somehow (loved bad example by the locals: using Neverwinter as name for the MMORPG ).
I'd suggest you to Google "Queen Blade" in the Images section and, in addition to regretting it for life (so don't Google it!! :S ), you will get a mental picture of the kind of audience targeted by such... art style. If they had used "Kill Me Baby" art style (this is safe to Google, don't worry), it would have not worked for their targeted audience. Much like using cute Bear smilies for some gritty D&D action. XD (if at least we had Bear Cavalry!!)
Should "bad art styles" be hated? Art is quite subjective and that's why we have "HAMSTER" known as modern art that is everything but real art (in a classical definition). I used to collect X-Men comics and that means I saw many different artists illustrating the different characters. Some I loved, others I loathed. But in the end it was a matter of "But it's the story good or not?".
The old D&D I remember had chainmail bikinis even by Larry Elmore (as awesome as his art is) between other stuff that I prefer to ignore art wise.
Ugly characters? You mean low charisma? Because charisma was more than just beauty and no one was prevented from being pretty but shy or ugly but party beast. I remember talking with my friends back in the day about characters appearence and it was quite pointless. Only characters that would care about that stuff would be social characters but the rest would only care about personality. I'm sure that hasn't changed that much in today's D&D.
Work hard against defeating evil? I heard that first D&D was a killer but it had no roleplaying beyond "My character is a Fighter". Beyond that, not sure why it would seem that today's D&D is easy to defeat bad boys. Good encounter building should get rid of that in any edition? (2E+ in my case) Same for campaign design/building.
Storytelling depends on master/players. You can play D&D like if you were playing V:TES (different rulest but I mean in roleplaying style) or just hack&slash mindless fun. Younger players are more likely to play more hack&slash that pure roleplaying? Maybe. But it's also inconsiderate to make such assumption. It's like supposing that young people only plays Call of Duty (like some old idiot in the Grimrock forums... ).
Sparkling stuff, "rare races" not being so rare,... things change. Sometimes the changes are good, others not so much. More races is good. For roleplayers interested in trying something really different (and the proper DM), they can be great. Let's ignore Munchkins, please. Characters portrayed as to be "flesh idols"? Well, image sells. We already had this argument in the SWTOR forums about the Fat body type. You won't see that kind of "heroes" in the usual movies/series. Back in the old days, it was the same with "good looking stuff" (different style but still the same). Except for Raistlin (and Elmore did paint him quite nicely), I don't remember anyone of Dragonlance heroes being actually ugly.
I'll concede that 4E had some "stuff", like that names suggested for the Tieflings. But I didn't see anything big or really serious (it's not like for being a Tiefling you must be emo or for being a drow you must be a good ranger using two scimitars!!!! b:angry ).
What D&D will be when I leave it : -
Only characters with oversized HAMSTER and perfect bodies, sparking streets with sparkly cute drows, when u cut instead of blood rainbow sprouts out, vampires sparkle etc.
Well you have the original D&D authors fueling that engine to it's final destination.
Examples: Lets look at the original Drizzit Do Urden, the Drizzit that was created by a guy who worked in a factory and moonlighted as a bouncer.
Now let's look at the magical unicorn riding twilight character he is today.
Further
Take a look at Elminster, the Elminster that use to show up in the pages of Dragon magazine before the first Realms box set ever appeared.
And take a look at the Mary sue that calls himself Elminster today or how the entire realms basically worships him as a god...The Elminster I knew wasn't all powerful, he was flawed and greedy and was a couple steps from becoming Halister.
So tomorrow if Hasbro called up Salvatore or Greenwood and asked to somehow work a Sailor Moon character into Neverwinter they would be all over it......it isn't so much these Johnny come lately's that are HAMSTER up D&D, it's the very same people who have been there all along and they are doing it out of the desperate need to appear relevant.
And the great Gygax spins in his grave
God help us all.
= Well I do agree money is the driving force, but it is not wise to kill the goose. Sometimes being content with an egg a day from it is better.
= I did google it, my point is, I don't mind those stuff being there - just don't put it where it does not belong.
= Art is subjective to subject at hand.
= Point is D&D was different than other fantasy novels of time. It was quite realistic - unlike say, Sword and Sorcery novels, or connan novels - the origin of bikini chainmail. There are times when D&D may try to cash in with that genre, but it can't let go of what it is. For it is different and there lies its actual value.
= 'it is alright to be ugly' means there is no compulsion for all characters to be stunningly beautiful because no-one wants not to be, and personality matters more. It shows that the players have characters with strong backgrounds and not .... <fill any profanity you like most> . i.e. A rogue can have half-burnt face; a strength based fighter can be buff while a dex based fighter can be thin. Nothing to do with CHA. CHA is personality based, not on looks. Cha simply be reduced to mean natural abilities what you are born with, e.g. DragonBlood.
= work hard... means a history of strong plots in campaign with an integrated background and a realistic victory. Unlike a novel where hero gets a power-up in a fight to defeat villain and is not distracted to talk while fighting.
= Everybody likes a good story, whether young or old. A good story matures your understanding, if your emotional level is below that of storyteller and thats when you enjoy the story the most. Otherwise, you will say, that was a good story and go on.
= Sparkling stuff is completely stupid. Period. Why? Its dungeons and dragons. It means darkness in dungeon. And with dragons you won't like to draw attention to dragon unless you are town sacrifice and have been bluffed.
[again, 'its is alright to be ugly' doesn't means all heroes should have to be ugly. It means realism and strong personality is preferred when making characters. With strong personality, you would be adamant about certain things.]
Novels are different than games. They should not influence the game from novel, imo. They should adapt it, not copy it from the lines.
EDIT: btw,I m not opposing or supporting anyone's arguments but presenting my own opinion. So you would find that a lot of things which you support I may support too, with different viewpoint; or while some things may be completely opposite of how you like them to be.
= Well I do agree money is the driving force, but it is not wise to kill the goose. Sometimes being content with an egg a day from it is better.
Our world is evidence of the contrary.
= Art is subjective to subject at hand.
No. Good art is good. Appropiate art is a different thing. The bear smilies are good (imho, as in there are well done) yet not appropiate for a D&D theme.
= 'it is alright to be ugly' means there is no compulsion for all characters to be stunningly beautiful because no-one wants not to be, and personality matters more. It shows that the players have characters with strong backgrounds and not .... <fill any profanity you like most> . i.e. A rogue can have half-burnt face; a strength based fighter can be buff while a dex based fighter can be thin. Nothing to do with CHA. CHA is personality based, not on looks. Cha simply be reduced to mean natural abilities what you are born with, e.g. DragonBlood.
Manuals clearly state how Charisma also represents "beauty". Yes, obviously stuff like Dex or Str impact the shape of the body but one of those ethereal elements of Charisma if beauty and the urge of some of us of adding a separate Appearence stat in the character sheet.
= work hard... means a history of strong plots in campaign with an integrated background and a realistic victory. Unlike a novel where hero gets a power-up in a fight to defeat villain and is not distracted to talk while fighting.
Still not seeing this point. As much as some claim 4E to be totally dumbed down and as much as future EditionS will claimed to be even more dumbed down, campaigns/encounters depend on the DM. True that I havem't purchased/played any adventure by Wizards, but I doubt very much that they are done like if Salvatore was making a new Drizzt novel.
= Everybody likes a good story, whether young or old. A good story matures your understanding, if your emotional level is below that of storyteller and thats when you enjoy the story the most. Otherwise, you will say, that was a good story and go on.
Which means that you could have a gritty D&D story using cute bears. Visually wouldn't fit even if you could get used to it but the story could be equally good.
= Sparkling stuff is completely stupid. Period. Why? Its dungeons and dragons. It means darkness in dungeon. And with dragons you won't like to draw attention to dragon unless you are town sacrifice and have been bluffed.
Could you point to where do we have "sparkling" drows or vampires in D&D? Beyond some possible fan made content? Dungeons & Dragons can be played totally outside of dungeons and without any dragon. Unless you are happy limiting the interaction possibilities to dungeon dwelers and big bad beasts. I don't see in D&D that equivalent to the vision of certain woman about what a romantic vampire is.
Also, not sure why the worries about stuff like that making it into the game. Maybe if in the future, when all the grognards are dead, everybody likes that kind of stuff, then it would seem natural for the publisher to do that. Meanwhile, I'm not sure that Wizards pretend to target women that wet their panties with some bad romance story/characters. imho
[again, 'its is alright to be ugly' doesn't means all heroes should have to be ugly. It means realism and strong personality is preferred when making characters. With strong personality, you would be adamant about certain things.]
Sorry, I got this ugly stuff like we were talking just "image". I do agree with what you say.
As I haven't kept in touch with latest novels of D&D, I don't know how Barbie they have become... or not. Not everybody can be The Eternal Champion though.
Not always. 1 quick example would be recent history of Atari.
Manuals clearly state how Charisma also represents "beauty".
Physical attractiveness gives you an edge in leadership abilities and magnetism. It is one of the things included in 'inborn talent'. But they are still different. It does not mean that homely character cannot have high charisma, or vice versa.
Which means that you could have a gritty D&D story using cute bears. Visually wouldn't fit even if you could get used to it but the story could be equally good.
Yes, but would it fit the background of Faerun and neverwinter? Unless you explain in the story that fouth wall opened a hole in dimension etc etc which should basically change the whole multiverse ... Eventually, a 'cute' bear in D&D forgotten realms, will be a bad story in itself.
Could you point to where do we have "sparkling" drows or vampires in D&D?
I said, "What D&D will be when I leave it" := I haven't left yet. And, as implied, thankfully drows don't twinkle yet :-)
You know speaking of appropriateness how is drow a playable race for saving Neverwinter appropriate? They are an evil scheming race of tyrannical cults. Drizzit was an exceptional exception. In the NWN2 Dalelands Beyond PW they made a very moot point in how people need to role play the Drow appropriately and that saving villages on the surface does not constitute appropriateness and the surfacers need to be outright hostile to players of the Drow race. It's like saying we should welcome known Al-Quada with open arms and hugs in America. Maybe I'm wrong as I am no loremaster but from games and books that is how the Drow are portrayed. DDO got away with it as the Drow seemed like some tribal community with no hatred for the surfacers but then again I don't know jack squat on Eberron lore besides that I don't really like it.
It would be nice if Cryptic did two separate distinct worlds like the Underdark for those Drow lovers and was the dark evil side while the surface is you typical goody lil two shoe happenings.
Comments
4E would have looked like this (probably with less clothing and bigger "HAMSTER")
and we would get stuff like
Priestess class (bears are fine compared to that XD )
But hey, D&D is what players make of it.
I'm exaggerating a bit here but whatever.
I'm sorry I know this isn't very hipster of me but I hate loathe and detest that HAMSTER, the very first anime inspired thing I see in this game I'm out.
LOLZ :)laugh
Haha. Where did you find that? That was quite funny. But that said, I am hopeful that it won't turn into something like this because they said in interview that devs themselves are D&D fans (link)
It honestly depends on what they are inspired by. The art doesn't fit into this kind of game, but some storytellings are nice
"Steins;Gate" (videogame adaptation) is superb in its storyline (not a fan of time travel storylines but this was great, with lots of real science in it) and has a serious anime style.
"Kill Me Baby" (manga/anime) on the other hand, goes for chibi (small, cute) and silly stories.
"Ghost in the Shell" (talking about the manga) has great story (dense in some points) and is quite precise and detailed in its style.
Not reasons enough to change someone's mind and that's not the point. Just saying that not all manga/anime goes for teenagers (harem manga, panty shots...), has huge eyes, includes huge swords or stuff like that. XD
On topic! First two pics are Google-Fu result. Third made by me last year.
The post was, obviously, a joke. Manga doesn't fit the general western audience. But you get manga version of Marvel heroes or Star Wars in Japan. Why? Because not all the countries are the same and manga is the way to go there. Cute bear smilies by default for a chinese company? Well, not surprised. XD
To think that some "alien" art may make it into Neverwinter seems unlikely. So far, from what I have seen, it looks safe.
* while the males get serious armour. Because if at least everybody looks as a HAMSTER, then... well, it'd be a serious critical hit to credibility but I'd consider it fair.
Ooooo Berserk, wished they continued with a second season T.T
To be honest some of the greatest most in depth character character development comes from Anime and Magma. Robotech, Blue Gene, Full Metal alchemist to name a few.
I'll keep this on topic which is the website. How the game does or does not do and whether it will look like Anime or not (and if it did I'd go Ghost in the Shell...with real ghosts) can be discussed elsewhere.
It's been said how upsetting it is to lose our forum identities and post links. I'm agreeing not in a sense of e-peen but of feelings of contributions. For instance: I made a newbie post thread I now have to abandon and re-make as a waste of copying because I can never update the first post again let alone delete it. Now imagine a bunch of other threads which are effectively abandoned, not even deletable to start again.
Heck, I would have respected a delete and re-do then having the info mention account-only (not forum) link for clarity then.
The black with no other lines besides a perimeter red makes posts not separate from one another and its Gothic only clashes with the bear iconry. I'm also hoping we can get some more generic (even cartoonish) D&D-related emotes here.
But what's really important is access. We can't easily sort and link the posts like before (and it's harder to track what was updated or new in regards to read,) and cannot report any posts not supposed to be there. Even something as reporting a post to be moved to a new section now becomes a contact us event not a link-click. Why?! As noted, the 7-year DDO forums are much clearer and more customizable; the Champions site didn't get a re-work as well.
So, we're upset on losing our work done here as much as our names, and we need more forum UI control here in my opinion as well as the black being too minimalist and not keeping posts apart well. That's all for here besides saying I dislike it but hope for improvement.
GREAT to see you back Truth!
I agree with everything you said. You nailed it!
I think much of the old guard here is frustrated, but as Talsic so wisely put it earlier in the thread, we need to find a way to be positive once again.
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I think the best way to start cleaning this site up a bit is to announce that they are leaving the old posts up for 60 days. That would give those who took a LOT of their own time posting content for the community plenty of time to recreate their most important threads. Grant it, its not the same, but its something.
Then, purge them all. Having these archived anonymous posts looks ridiculous, and detracts not only from our enjoyment (those that have been around for awhile), but bound to confuse new recruits, who might just leave after not finding what they were looking for.
Have the design team come up with some custom D&D artwork for the site. One background, and full sets of avatars and smilies that cater to 20+ (In many cases 30+) crowd.
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That would be a start, but honestly they need to go a bit further many of us are now quite aware that PWE is running this ship and sorry they are not known for their communities, they are known for giving Zen away in exchange for putting pseudo malware on your computer.
I personally want to feel like Cryptic still has a say and community team that communicates with us regularly (like in STO and CO) and honestly will go a long way in that regard. Can the "we can't talk about that right now" and "soon" BS, because when you hold back from us we know it means that we aren't going to like the answers.
I'm not saying full transparency but you are half a year gone into a schedule that puts your release at the tail end of this year, and unless you are planning to say: "Here it is deal with it", then you are running out of time. I know there are Alpha testers, but unless they are not part of the industry they are going to do you damn little good, the community is going to tear you code apart and tell you what works and what doesn't and most importantly why.
Lastly there are a couple fan sites already popping up and there is no support for them, I already am working on porting my old NWN modules to Neverwinter things like that need to be supported because that is going to be the fan made content that sustains you when players chew through everything you have built in the past three years in two weeks.
You have a community right now, but if you want to keep it things have to change in the next week or two maximum.
I do not see anything wrong with the web site. The bear smilies are a bit "childish" but do not bother me, even though I'd expect a bit more maturity from a D&D title. I am sorry, but I simply do not post much in a game that I do not play. I loathe speculation and that is about 95% of any game's topics that are not out of NDA Beta Phases.
I'm sure I'll be more vocal and active once such things change.
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Hell i couldnt even make a new account with pwe untill i tried using IE for some damn reason this sucky site doesn't like FF anymore.
I wonder if any of other like me that have trouble linking there old account has anything to do with what browser we are using.
Btw its Asm0deus here if the new name wasn't enough of a clue, and seriously bears !!!
what do you think we are all 15 year old girls to think that is cute ? If thats what i wanted i would be on hello kitty online or something, just saying
Welcome back. Nice choice of name - very creative
It is opening on opera 11.6 quite nicely. So its strange that FF doesn't work ... are you missing a plugin or an option is disabled?
EDIT: Ah! I see it was about the linking-specific exercise. And regarding bears, almost all (barring a few i don't really care about forums) share that sentiment.
Yeah, I was using Chrome when I couldn't log in at ALL and had to finish on IE 9 too. After that linked mess, I could log in w Chrome again, but I still can't get the PWE Submit Ticket button to work on ANY browser, but had to get a new McAfee security program so not sure if that has anything to do w it or not. Everything else on here or PWE's site loads though, including an account link which has another option to submit a ticket.
Oh, and it also locked out my submitted user names and display names when I tried on Chrome so I was stuck w what you see (and a user logon which is dumb but you can't se its name at least.) Getting a "Hmm... When you were using the other browsers, were you going through https://my.perfectworld.com/nw?" did not fill me with confidence. (OF COURSE I DID YOU NINNIES! is what I should have replied to, but I kept it professional.)
I'll skip the bear feedback as that's been done a lot, and if you look carefully on another thread, yu'll find my South Park Easter Egg reaction to the bears thing.
Before the forums "changes" i had 2 accounts.
My cryptic account that i used to log in which my forum names was Asm0deus, and a pwe account whcih logged me in as this name pilf3r.
My Asm0deus account is "linked" with an account but i dont know which one.
I do have rusty heart in my pc but havent played thta in ages as it got old kinds fast
I also have a STO account that i can still log into (even with FF).
Anyways this is what is screwy with all this obligatory linking BS they should let us log in with out cryptic account like they do in STO and settle all these shenanigans
Btw i have to log in from here http://www.perfectworld.com/ even with IE or it wont let me log in n says my info is incorrect.
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For normal login? Just downloaded Firefox 12.0 on vista to try it out. (Whats with the new FF? they copied opera's UI?).
Logged in and am posting using ff 12.0
Is this account specific? Shouldn't be a browser issue for normal login if I can post I think.
With IE it works but just if log in via the PWE site.
Anyhoot i was just putting this out there in case it helps out other that wish to continue posting here.
Gl n GB guys.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Same...ironically I switched over to Chrome due to previous conflict issues with FF and windows 7 compatibility issues many many months ago.
I like ghost in the shell - one of my favs, especially the old movie.
On topic:- But one has to realize, anime/manga is just an art-form. Anime/manga are basically made for demographics of all age. Many being inappropriate for kids and all. Even anime like - Excel saga - make fun of cute things.
If you think outside the box, it is like saying all movies have sparkly vampires only fit for certain demographics which is unable to make good choices in life.
My point being, stupid things should be universally hated. East, west, south or north.
D&D used to be : -
Characters who were realistic, having an ugly character was alright, good had to work hard to win against evil, and players had to think after making a good choice - was it really good, plus good story telling with thrillers and twists.
What D&D will be when I leave it : -
Only characters with oversized HAMSTER and perfect bodies, sparking streets with sparkly cute drows, when u cut instead of blood rainbow sprouts out, vampires sparkle etc.
I used to use Firefox exclusively, I now use Chrome however for Firefox takes even longer to load than IE. I have been using Chrome for a couple years now. The only issues I have ever had with Chrome have been ones where it was my fault for setting some settings too high or some other user created reason.
I had no problems logging into the forums (Chrome) or the Neverwinter and PWE pages today, for the first time since the new changes here. Of course, I merged my accounts back when they first allowed Cryptic>PWE account mergers, shortly after the acquisition.
Just make sure, chrome users, you have the latest version of Chrome. It's easy to check and update, just click the monkey wrench, then click "About Google Chrome." Aye, it is indeed that easy!
The bears have got to go. They should be replaced by a more D&D themed set of smilies. If no that, then at least something a bit more mature. Indeed.
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I'd suggest you to Google "Queen Blade" in the Images section and, in addition to regretting it for life (so don't Google it!! :S ), you will get a mental picture of the kind of audience targeted by such... art style. If they had used "Kill Me Baby" art style (this is safe to Google, don't worry), it would have not worked for their targeted audience. Much like using cute Bear smilies for some gritty D&D action. XD (if at least we had Bear Cavalry!!)
Should "bad art styles" be hated? Art is quite subjective and that's why we have "HAMSTER" known as modern art that is everything but real art (in a classical definition). I used to collect X-Men comics and that means I saw many different artists illustrating the different characters. Some I loved, others I loathed. But in the end it was a matter of "But it's the story good or not?".
The old D&D I remember had chainmail bikinis even by Larry Elmore (as awesome as his art is) between other stuff that I prefer to ignore art wise.
Ugly characters? You mean low charisma? Because charisma was more than just beauty and no one was prevented from being pretty but shy or ugly but party beast. I remember talking with my friends back in the day about characters appearence and it was quite pointless. Only characters that would care about that stuff would be social characters but the rest would only care about personality. I'm sure that hasn't changed that much in today's D&D.
Work hard against defeating evil? I heard that first D&D was a killer but it had no roleplaying beyond "My character is a Fighter". Beyond that, not sure why it would seem that today's D&D is easy to defeat bad boys. Good encounter building should get rid of that in any edition? (2E+ in my case) Same for campaign design/building.
Storytelling depends on master/players. You can play D&D like if you were playing V:TES (different rulest but I mean in roleplaying style) or just hack&slash mindless fun. Younger players are more likely to play more hack&slash that pure roleplaying? Maybe. But it's also inconsiderate to make such assumption. It's like supposing that young people only plays Call of Duty (like some old idiot in the Grimrock forums... ).
Sparkling stuff, "rare races" not being so rare,... things change. Sometimes the changes are good, others not so much. More races is good. For roleplayers interested in trying something really different (and the proper DM), they can be great. Let's ignore Munchkins, please. Characters portrayed as to be "flesh idols"? Well, image sells. We already had this argument in the SWTOR forums about the Fat body type. You won't see that kind of "heroes" in the usual movies/series. Back in the old days, it was the same with "good looking stuff" (different style but still the same). Except for Raistlin (and Elmore did paint him quite nicely), I don't remember anyone of Dragonlance heroes being actually ugly.
I'll concede that 4E had some "stuff", like that names suggested for the Tieflings. But I didn't see anything big or really serious (it's not like for being a Tiefling you must be emo or for being a drow you must be a good ranger using two scimitars!!!! b:angry ).
Well you have the original D&D authors fueling that engine to it's final destination.
Examples: Lets look at the original Drizzit Do Urden, the Drizzit that was created by a guy who worked in a factory and moonlighted as a bouncer.
Now let's look at the magical unicorn riding twilight character he is today.
Further
Take a look at Elminster, the Elminster that use to show up in the pages of Dragon magazine before the first Realms box set ever appeared.
And take a look at the Mary sue that calls himself Elminster today or how the entire realms basically worships him as a god...The Elminster I knew wasn't all powerful, he was flawed and greedy and was a couple steps from becoming Halister.
So tomorrow if Hasbro called up Salvatore or Greenwood and asked to somehow work a Sailor Moon character into Neverwinter they would be all over it......it isn't so much these Johnny come lately's that are HAMSTER up D&D, it's the very same people who have been there all along and they are doing it out of the desperate need to appear relevant.
And the great Gygax spins in his grave
God help us all.
= Well I do agree money is the driving force, but it is not wise to kill the goose. Sometimes being content with an egg a day from it is better.
= I did google it, my point is, I don't mind those stuff being there - just don't put it where it does not belong.
= Art is subjective to subject at hand.
= Point is D&D was different than other fantasy novels of time. It was quite realistic - unlike say, Sword and Sorcery novels, or connan novels - the origin of bikini chainmail. There are times when D&D may try to cash in with that genre, but it can't let go of what it is. For it is different and there lies its actual value.
= 'it is alright to be ugly' means there is no compulsion for all characters to be stunningly beautiful because no-one wants not to be, and personality matters more. It shows that the players have characters with strong backgrounds and not .... <fill any profanity you like most> . i.e. A rogue can have half-burnt face; a strength based fighter can be buff while a dex based fighter can be thin. Nothing to do with CHA. CHA is personality based, not on looks. Cha simply be reduced to mean natural abilities what you are born with, e.g. DragonBlood.
= work hard... means a history of strong plots in campaign with an integrated background and a realistic victory. Unlike a novel where hero gets a power-up in a fight to defeat villain and is not distracted to talk while fighting.
= Everybody likes a good story, whether young or old. A good story matures your understanding, if your emotional level is below that of storyteller and thats when you enjoy the story the most. Otherwise, you will say, that was a good story and go on.
= Sparkling stuff is completely stupid. Period. Why? Its dungeons and dragons. It means darkness in dungeon. And with dragons you won't like to draw attention to dragon unless you are town sacrifice and have been bluffed.
[again, 'its is alright to be ugly' doesn't means all heroes should have to be ugly. It means realism and strong personality is preferred when making characters. With strong personality, you would be adamant about certain things.]
Novels are different than games. They should not influence the game from novel, imo. They should adapt it, not copy it from the lines.
EDIT: btw,I m not opposing or supporting anyone's arguments but presenting my own opinion. So you would find that a lot of things which you support I may support too, with different viewpoint; or while some things may be completely opposite of how you like them to be.
I would agree if not for the novels working their way into so much of the source material of late.
It would be nice if Cryptic did two separate distinct worlds like the Underdark for those Drow lovers and was the dark evil side while the surface is you typical goody lil two shoe happenings.