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impossible demogorgon

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  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,935 Arc User
    Look, this game has always been aimed at:

    'time rich but cash poor' or 'cash rich but time poor'. Or 'the grinders & the spenders'. That has covered a number of demographics and has worked well enough for Cryptic to sustain itself thus far.

    Of course there are others that don't fit into these categories, the worst being 'time poor & cash poor' and if you can't grind OR spend then it's very hard to get anywhere as by the time you get the thing you're aiming at, it's already yesterday's news.

    But of course, this is an mmo and mmo's aren't built like fps, racing or sports games where people can pick them up for a short while then go do something else. They are designed around being an immersive, community oriented time-sink that sucks you in and holds you there.

    The zen market is the way around the grind for those that can afford it and I'm cool with that as they are paying the devs wages and enable ME to play for free!

    Is the system perfect? Far from it. They need to add more things (e.g. housing) for those with the cash to buy - you know, the things they've been asking for... and the grinding route could also do with better tuning to make it more enjoyable and easier to pug.

    I applaud them bringing in the reaper's challenge for the end-gamers, but all random queues need to be oriented toward pug teams and even the advanced level RQs need to be aimed at mid-geared players, with the reaper aimed at the high-geared.

    * last point. Most people are skipping the basic RQ dungeons since scaling was brought in. Increase the AD rewards already! Put them at 20k AD and more people will queue up, making life easier for a lot of those that now feel excluded.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • porporina#3453 porporina Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    In my opinion they want to be too smart, if I were them I would take an example from those who really know how to do work.
    Create a system that allows me to choose the difficulty, play solo, adjust the prizes according to the chosen level, exclusively for the first round give 100k diamonds, then who can repeat as much as he wants to the difficulty he wants, I'm tired of hearing all these complaints.
    Add the ability to do whatever I want, you already have my money, if you keep squeezing me I think I won't be the only one slamming the door in your face.
  • johnnystranger#5900 johnnystranger Member Posts: 365 Arc User
    > @callumf#9018 said:
    > Shame would have been interesting to see.
    >
    > I think a group with Voice Chat and good players could probably finish Demo with an average item level of 40k maybe.

    Maybe in 2 hours . Even most mid 40 to 50k dps can’t kill portal solo . All it takes is one hit from anything and you need to retreat to health up . In that time another enemy has spawned and shortly after a second portal . You need two dps most times on portal , after a few attacks , one dps can go throw all encounters, daily and mount, artifact powers at demo than get back to help portal , rinse repeat
    I pity anyone in there with more than 1 sub 45 k dps .
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,536 Arc User

    > @callumf#9018 said:
    > Shame would have been interesting to see.
    >
    > I think a group with Voice Chat and good players could probably finish Demo with an average item level of 40k maybe.

    Maybe in 2 hours . Even most mid 40 to 50k dps can’t kill portal solo . All it takes is one hit from anything and you need to retreat to health up . In that time another enemy has spawned and shortly after a second portal . You need two dps most times on portal , after a few attacks , one dps can go throw all encounters, daily and mount, artifact powers at demo than get back to help portal , rinse repeat
    I pity anyone in there with more than 1 sub 45 k dps .

    To be fair we failed in an Alliance run last night, we just didnt have the DPS for the portal phase [3] so we ended up with 4 dps on the portals + healer. Which meant that DEMO only had 2 dps and 2 tanks on it. Literally like trying to kill a dragon with a spoon, it was painful to say the least. The run leader then asked for two healers on the solo tank in phase 3 as one tank had gone down. We lost a DPS as well, and after 25 minutes or so we decided to wipe.

    So my original statement needs a disclaimer - you need at least 4 very good dps players with good equipment 2 on portals and 2 on Demo for phase 3 :)
  • aslan3775aslan3775 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 242 Arc User


    I tip my pointy hat to you. :trollface:

    English is my first language, but every time I try to use it, I seem to find that I can't communicate effectively.

    In my post, I was hoping to keep the topic more positive, rather than allowing a good thread to denigrate into negative bashing. I didn't mean to comment on your post at all. I tend to find your posts rather humorous and fun to read, unless of course, that's not how you meant them. Then, I must have misinterpreted them.

    English, after all, is my first language, and I'm still working on it. ;)


  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    Can you make Demogorgon- do not one-shotting 60k IL tank with his tentacle smack please? This is just ridiculous.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,301 Arc User
    modlesie said:

    Can you make Demogorgon- do not one-shotting 60k IL tank with his tentacle smack please? This is just ridiculous.

    This is a part of the encounter mechanics and you are supposed to do tank swapping to avoid it.

    If anything is to be changed about the encounter it should be reducing mob hp all over to make the encounter available for less geared teams, or at least reduce the hp of the adds from the shards.
  • urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    it ir so hard folks drop at once... so there is no chance of getting better... something should be done
  • agodbeaagodbea Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    two general things with Trials.
    Make so when you join as reinforcement to a running trial you actually is able to join the action, currently its only at tiamat that works
    Change the ui so you can see all 10 people in the trial currently its not uncommon I as a healer find myself in a group with 4 dps or 3 dps and a healer and having no idea who the tanks in the trial is.

    For Demogorgon.
    make phase 3 shorter and phase 2 longer (and making so hitting the yellow portals is something people will need to learn)
    Beside that i think the % of the room that gets red should be less seen runs where 90% of room is red occasionally.
  • melotai#0794 melotai Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    I have done a few randoms where demo was actually successful. Unfortunately the ones where it was a success it was the same way every single time as described in someones previous post with one DPS doing around 128 million (minimum) and the rest at around 30 to 40 million. (Started checking after that post and they appear to be correct)

    In general, getting past the first two phases is easy from my own experience but apparently you do not get past the third without at least one or more DPS being in the 55K+ IL range.

    Currently, I have a tendency to just quit a queue for RTQ simply because I decide it is demo and presume it is better to just quit without even trying at all. Usually only happens when I am doing a BHE, soloing a lesser HE or doing some quest that puts me in a dungeon where I do not want to start over to complete it.

    But then again, before the demo change I used to just do the RTQ reqardless of whatever else I happened to be doing at the time.

    My belief at this time is that demo should either be removed or changes should be made so that a group of random 40K players can actually complete it.
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I will add that it's also a problem with being a healer, you can't see the health status of half the raid party and it's just a guessing-game as to who needs you the most at any given moment.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,536 Arc User

    Its far from impossible, it’s just not random queue material.

    With a coordinated group of friends it’s a 7-8 minute trial.

    Please remove it from random queues. 40k players with no coordination and gear from the seal store can’t complete this

    Wow 7 to 8 minutes?

    Im impressed.

    The best run I have done was with a party of very high dps and it still took at least 15 minutes, the average item level of the raid was about 56k. It was a pug though.
  • mrimsogoodmrimsogood Member Posts: 129 Arc User

    Its far from impossible, it’s just not random queue material.

    With a coordinated group of friends it’s a 7-8 minute trial.

    Please remove it from random queues. 40k players with no coordination and gear from the seal store can’t complete this

    Wow 7 to 8 minutes?

    Im impressed.

    The best run I have done was with a party of very high dps and it still took at least 15 minutes, the average item level of the raid was about 56k. It was a pug though.
    Sadly IL still don't mean jack squat in this game. It's too easy to spend a lil money and get a IL of 50k+ and still have bad stats
  • irene#2829 irene Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited November 2021

    a problem with being a healer, you can't see the health status of half the raid party

    Currently I turn on all health bars in options so they were shown on every player's head. Have suggested having an interface to show second team name and health bar on screen too. = ) Need to know where is the second healer so that I can move to the opposite side.

    Actually I think demo is a DPS check. I can solo heal demo. It is not, 'wow you're so pro you can solo heal'. When there are more dps, add spawns die really fast and the players take little to no damage. On the contrary a lot easier than having 2 heals. :p Tank plays a critical role too. They either die 1 hit or take no damage by kiting the boss around. Many can solo tank.

    Currently I think the community had half high dps and half normal dps. The high dps usually join custom groups in town. If the random queue system can reward top 1 dps with a little something more, perhaps it can encourage stronger dps to join and eventually solve the issue of random queue stuck. Many players joined random queue while they are still levelling their character. As such they currently do not have the best equipment.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,536 Arc User

    Its far from impossible, it’s just not random queue material.

    With a coordinated group of friends it’s a 7-8 minute trial.

    Please remove it from random queues. 40k players with no coordination and gear from the seal store can’t complete this

    Wow 7 to 8 minutes?

    Im impressed.

    The best run I have done was with a party of very high dps and it still took at least 15 minutes, the average item level of the raid was about 56k. It was a pug though.
    Sadly IL still don't mean jack squat in this game. It's too easy to spend a lil money and get a IL of 50k+ and still have bad stats
    Yes I am well aware of that fact :)

    But having run many DEMO so far its a fact that the higher the overall item level of the entire raid the greater the success chance is. Especially the DPS which @irene#2829 mentions in the post above. You have to balance DPS on the Boss vs DPS on the portals in phase 3 and that takes experienced players OR high DPS output.

    Ofc a group of better balanced toons can do it, as can a group of lower item level toons with good players do it, with timing skill and common sense and not panicking.

  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    I would make demogorgon even harder and remove anything else in rtq so people could leave this game faster. Waiting as a dps for 20 minutes to get demogorgon with 40 +/- ilvl random people...
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I used to love Demo. So did others. Now it's just a pain in the @rse and I dread it turning-up in the random queue. Same with others. There's nothing wrong with it as it is now, some people really enjoy running it, but it does not belong in this particular queue as it's not doable for those who do the random queue. Leaving it there is just going to continue upsetting players and ultimately hurting the game. Take it out and put it somewhere else and put the old one back in, or just take it out and put it somewhere else without replacing it, as long as it's gone.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,301 Arc User
    edited November 2021

    I used to love Demo. So did others. Now it's just a pain in the @rse and I dread it turning-up in the random queue. Same with others. There's nothing wrong with it as it is now, some people really enjoy running it, but it does not belong in this particular queue as it's not doable for those who do the random queue. Leaving it there is just going to continue upsetting players and ultimately hurting the game. Take it out and put it somewhere else and put the old one back in, or just take it out and put it somewhere else without replacing it, as long as it's gone.

    Or adjust the difficulty so random PUGs got a chance.

    Only need to adjust the hitpoints of the shards and adds in phase 3 down a little.
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    I used to love Demo. So did others. Now it's just a pain in the @rse and I dread it turning-up in the random queue. Same with others. There's nothing wrong with it as it is now, some people really enjoy running it, but it does not belong in this particular queue as it's not doable for those who do the random queue. Leaving it there is just going to continue upsetting players and ultimately hurting the game. Take it out and put it somewhere else and put the old one back in, or just take it out and put it somewhere else without replacing it, as long as it's gone.

    Or adjust the difficulty so random PUGs got a chance.

    Only need to adjust the hitpoints of the shards and adds in phase 3 down a little.
    The Dev who created this new version did so because he thought the old one was too easy. It's the way it is now on purpose.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,935 Arc User

    I used to love Demo. So did others. Now it's just a pain in the @rse and I dread it turning-up in the random queue. Same with others. There's nothing wrong with it as it is now, some people really enjoy running it, but it does not belong in this particular queue as it's not doable for those who do the random queue. Leaving it there is just going to continue upsetting players and ultimately hurting the game. Take it out and put it somewhere else and put the old one back in, or just take it out and put it somewhere else without replacing it, as long as it's gone.

    Or adjust the difficulty so random PUGs got a chance.

    Only need to adjust the hitpoints of the shards and adds in phase 3 down a little.
    The Dev who created this new version did so because he thought the old one was too easy. It's the way it is now on purpose.
    He might have overshot the target somewhat :)
    I agree - the first two phases are definitely puggable but that 3rd phase is just ridiculous due to the difficulty in closing the portals. A reduction in their HP could maintain the mechanics whilst making it doable.

    They should certainly have enough data by now to show the need for it.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    I used to love Demo. So did others. Now it's just a pain in the @rse and I dread it turning-up in the random queue. Same with others. There's nothing wrong with it as it is now, some people really enjoy running it, but it does not belong in this particular queue as it's not doable for those who do the random queue. Leaving it there is just going to continue upsetting players and ultimately hurting the game. Take it out and put it somewhere else and put the old one back in, or just take it out and put it somewhere else without replacing it, as long as it's gone.

    Or adjust the difficulty so random PUGs got a chance.

    Only need to adjust the hitpoints of the shards and adds in phase 3 down a little.
    The Dev who created this new version did so because he thought the old one was too easy. It's the way it is now on purpose.
    He might have overshot the target somewhat :)
    I agree - the first two phases are definitely puggable but that 3rd phase is just ridiculous due to the difficulty in closing the portals. A reduction in their HP could maintain the mechanics whilst making it doable.

    They should certainly have enough data by now to show the need for it.
    Over on the Playstation forum, I've been tracking the amount of insta-quit and failures. They might not be upset with a success rate of 20%, given how often they make things 1/200 available. On the other hand, an abandon rate (without even attempting the trial) of 75% - 80% is pretty abysmal, and can only lead to players giving up entirely.

    Personally, I'm not as concerned about the animosity on these forums today as I am the emerging apathy. Too many conversations start with, "I don't do random queues anymore," or "I don't really play NeverWinter anymore, but..."

    People who say that are begging the developers for an excuse to play again. After this much time, they are justified in feeling ignored.
  • khruk#1878 khruk Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    > @mentinmindmaker said:
    > Currently Demo is very hard because the community does not know the tactics.
    >
    > Give it a few months until most people figure out what they must do.
    >
    > Reports from preformed (guild) runs that have strong internal communication and coordination is that it is not too bad.

    December now. Joined multiple PE runs and they have all failed. People are too busy chasing around the boss to stop and dps the portals. All groups have been overrun by mobs. And the healers.. what healers? If you are dpsing the portals, there is no one there to heal you so you better potion spam. And click on the glowing green people to revive them. I swear some people die on purpose to instantly release and watch the fight from across the barrier.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,536 Arc User

    > @mentinmindmaker said:
    > Currently Demo is very hard because the community does not know the tactics.
    >
    > Give it a few months until most people figure out what they must do.
    >
    > Reports from preformed (guild) runs that have strong internal communication and coordination is that it is not too bad.

    December now. Joined multiple PE runs and they have all failed. People are too busy chasing around the boss to stop and dps the portals. All groups have been overrun by mobs. And the healers.. what healers? If you are dpsing the portals, there is no one there to heal you so you better potion spam. And click on the glowing green people to revive them. I swear some people die on purpose to instantly release and watch the fight from across the barrier.

    As a healer often I am healing those on the portals and get told to "go heal the tank[s] on DEMO"... dutifully I trot off to heal the tanks with another healer, toons on portals die, wipe.
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