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Paladin needs a buff

darkerickxdarkerickx Member Posts: 19 Arc User
Justice: remove TAB cooldown, change the 20% HP bonus to 40% HP, add more magnitude for the all powers. This class have no DPS paragon. This makes it difficult to have autonomy to do solo quests.

Oathkeeper: Increase the magnitude of all healing skills, especially area healing skills. Decrease the loading time of the TAB so that it loads completely faster. Decrease the cast time of at-will divine fulmination, make that power be released more quickly.

You did a good job nerfing the Paladins. Now there is almost no more Paladin in the game. DPSs are desperately looking for tanks and healers to have fun in Dungeons and Trials, but they can't find it anymore. Are you satisfied?
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Comments

  • bumhug#4005 bumhug Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited April 27
    Yes, and annihilation from Halaster. Next to 1mil HP, 90% defence, next to 70% awareness, 60% Crit avoidance, about 50% on the deflection stats. Astral shield from a cleric and the encounter power that reduces the damage (don´t know the english name) leads to one hit dead. Not very tanky. Not Always, it seems to be gambling...

    Edit: I forgot to mention, that it makes no difference if you are blocking or not, if you use your devinity for an extra damage reduction or not. Sometimes you will be one hitted, sometimes you survive without even losing some HP. It´s RNG. As the whole Game has become RNG. There is nothing about skill and not much about leveling up, either you are lucky or you aren´t.
    Post edited by bumhug#4005 on
  • darkerickxdarkerickx Member Posts: 19 Arc User

    Yes, and annihilation from Halaster. Next to 1mil HP, 90% defence, next to 70% awareness, 60% Crit avoidance, about 50% on the deflection stats. Astral shield from a cleric and the encounter power that reduces the damage (don´t know the english name) leads to one hit dead. Not very tanky. Not Always, it seems to be gambling...

    Edit: I forgot to mention, that it makes no difference if you are blocking or not, if you use your devinity for an extra damage reduction or not. Sometimes you will be one hitted, sometimes you survive without even losing some HP. It´s RNG. As the whole Game has become RNG. There is nothing about skill and not much about leveling up, either you are lucky or you aren´t.

    Exactly. I agree with all that you said. I have 2 chars. The paladin with 52k IL and a Hunter Ranger 49K IL. It is not fair that I am not able to play in peace with my paladin, being very resistant and without dying, while in DPS I am able to play well without abnormal complications. The fact is that the Paladin was destroyed in both paragons and is not resistant, it is dying a lot, it has no damage, it has no healing in the area .... what will be of the class? If it's to destroy, why not take it out of the game right away?
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,799 Arc User
    There's a post on the PC section where a Fighter tank is also complaining about shield stamina being blown away almost instantly. I am definitely of the opinion that in their effort to find that elusive 'balance' they have gone too far with tanks.

    Stamina should only be linked to how LONG you have your shield up, not how much damage you can take & it should be a flat, first layer 80% base damage reduction of all damage types - including CA.

    I believe that this alone would fix the vast majority of tanking issues.

    As for the healing paragon, I don't really play that as I've tried it a couple of times and sucked - I use my DC for running heals as it does a far better job.

    I don't think I'm imagining the feeling that Random Queue wait timers have gotten longer since the change - and I'm pretty sure it's down to Paladins of both paragons dropping the class (or game).
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  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    @armadeonx I believe your suggestion for how stamina for tanks should work is how it worked pre-mod 16. I only had been playing a short while at that point so not sure if there were other factors to stamina, but I remember wanting stamina to work as it currently does (as back then, I didn't know any timings, so often wasted stamina). Not sure how it'd work now, but if there's a huge damage reduction it'd lean towards high stamina regen builds again, possibly making tanks immortal.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,799 Arc User
    edited April 30

    @armadeonx I believe your suggestion for how stamina for tanks should work is how it worked pre-mod 16. I only had been playing a short while at that point so not sure if there were other factors to stamina, but I remember wanting stamina to work as it currently does (as back then, I didn't know any timings, so often wasted stamina). Not sure how it'd work now, but if there's a huge damage reduction it'd lean towards high stamina regen builds again, possibly making tanks immortal.

    But did you want it at the same time as halving the effectiveness of Defence, giving bosses permanent CA damage and reducing HP...?
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    As mentioned, back then I wanted it*, was new to the game and felt punished for holding up my shield since I didn't know bosses well. Now that I know what boss will do and how to perfectly time blocks, it'd be more beneficially to me for it to return the way it was, just mentioning that 80% damage reduction would make it so that tanks become immortal, specially for those who already can time well (most vets). They would just need to be careful with balancing is all.

    Some other things that could be done to balance classes, would be increase stamina usage for dodges, so it can't be spammed. Lower IFs for dps classes, remove sources other than IL/CON for hp, radiants can be used to increase max stamina (would help devs with balancing enemy damage, since they'd know exactly the hp classes should have) and so on. Doubt they'd change much of anything significant though, as we just had a full rework.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,799 Arc User
    As someone who plays all 8 classes and mains 4 of them, I don't really have an issue with the stamina gain on non-tanks, I think it's about right - especially as they generally ignore stamina/increased dodging as a defence source. In solo play they generally build for higher dps in order to kill enemies before they strike too much and in dungeons the experienced ones know to stand opposite the tank, not next to it, negating the need to dodge everything except AoE attacks. I'm also now seeing some top guilds ditching the HP boon (Wizard's Workshop) in favour of the Mercenary or Temple structures for increased Awareness, Crit Severity, Crit Avoidance & Revive Sickness.

    I appreciate that the stamina change was reasonable before the combat rework as tanks had a plethora of effective defensive resources and that the change to the defence formula made defence more effective at lower levels - especially with the removal of armour pen. Previously it had no effect at lower levels and now it has some.

    But surely with the current situation, do you not find that in endgame dungeons you can lose all of your stamina within seconds (or instantly!) if hit with the right combo or get mobbed before the DPS can clear a group? This is new and imo it is detrimental to the tanking role. I understand you are cautious about making tanks 'unkillable' but at the moment the opposite is true and I'm of the opinion that something needs to be changed in favour of tanks.
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  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited April 30
    armadeonx said:



    As for the healing paragon, I don't really play that as I've tried it a couple of times and sucked - I use my DC for running heals as it does a far better job.

    I don't think I'm imagining the feeling that Random Queue wait timers have gotten longer since the change - and I'm pretty sure it's down to Paladins of both paragons dropping the class (or game).

    Queues are taking longer because people are not playing tanks in general, and the ones that do, either are new players or vets who play with only a pre made group.

    And the healing path, it wasn't really about healing, but about dmg mitigation...

    Now the problem is that they nerfed shields into oblivion and forgot to change the healing side of it. They didn't even bother to make cleansing touch aoe, so paladin can't even mass cleanse

    And before the trolls come out and say "i have no problem healing on my paladin", my response is "have you tried to heal on a cleric?" because once you do, you will never look at the paladin again, because it's easier and less punishing, HAMSTER you don't even need outgoing healing companions or set in order to outheal the other 2 classes

  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    100% agree. My guild leader is a hr now, and im on a breake. Guild leader was healer i was tank in tomm/zariel. Sad times
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Op have the worst forte, we are losing critical avoidance when we use divinity. We need to use a daily to get to 90% awareness for a few seconds. And we have no dps path. I do not understand how anyone can argue about the paladin not being in a bad spot either you like the class or not.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > Op have the worst forte, we are losing critical avoidance when we use divinity. We need to use a daily to get to 90% awareness for a few seconds. And we have no dps path. I do not understand how anyone can argue about the paladin not being in a bad spot either you like the class or not.

    Paladin is the only tank that has deflect severity forte, making paladins the only tanks able to reach the breakpoint where deflect/deflect severity beats critical avoidance when calculating effective hitpoints.

    There are several ways to work around the lack of a DPS path. One way is to use a buffer up summoned companion, another way is to deal damage based on hitpoints (chitters, manticores mane, greater everfrost set).
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > There are several ways to work around the lack of a DPS path. One way is to use a buffer up summoned companion, another way is to deal damage based on hitpoints (chitters, manticores mane, greater everfrost set).

    Never thought about using a fighter companion thank you so much for the help! seriously you are one of the trolls they are talking about, because new players will not even hit lvl 80 with a paladin before they create a new stronger charecter/class.

    We are talking about the class, not ways to work around it..
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User

    > @wilbur626 said:
    > There are several ways to work around the lack of a DPS path. One way is to use a buffer up summoned companion, another way is to deal damage based on hitpoints (chitters, manticores mane, greater everfrost set).

    Never thought about using a fighter companion thank you so much for the help! seriously you are one of the trolls they are talking about, because new players will not even hit lvl 80 with a paladin before they create a new stronger charecter/class.

    We are talking about the class, not ways to work around it..

    You can get all the items I mentioned at level 70.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Blessed wanderer to 20% when playing solo and 20% awareness when blocking that is what we need, Then we can ad some more hp again and still have some stats
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,346 Arc User

    I believe your suggestion for how stamina for tanks should work is how it worked pre-mod 16. I only had been playing a short while at that point so not sure if there were other factors to stamina, but I remember wanting stamina to work as it currently does (as back then, I didn't know any timings, so often wasted stamina).

    Guard being a time limited 80% layer of mitigation was only for Guardian Fighter from Mod 6 through 16.
    From classic through Mod 5, Guardian Fighter Guard actually functioned more like it does now, where you had unlimited time to hold up your shield, but attacks would deduct a portion of your stamina.

    Oathbound Paladin had something different in the form of Sanctuary, which just gave 80% Defense (which was functionally useless due to Templar's Wrath) and had the "benefit" of healing people within a small radius.

    Some other things that could be done to balance classes, would be increase stamina usage for dodges, so it can't be spammed. Lower IFs for dps classes, remove sources other than IL/CON for hp, radiants can be used to increase max stamina (would help devs with balancing enemy damage, since they'd know exactly the hp classes should have) and so on. Doubt they'd change much of anything significant though, as we just had a full rework.

    What's funny is that this is how HP/armors used to work from classic through Mod 5, where your HP was primarily determined through the class base, CON, and a few set bonuses/items that gave HP.
    armadeonx said:

    But surely with the current situation, do you not find that in endgame dungeons you can lose all of your stamina within seconds (or instantly!) if hit with the right combo or get mobbed before the DPS can clear a group? This is new and imo it is detrimental to the tanking role. I understand you are cautious about making tanks 'unkillable' but at the moment the opposite is true and I'm of the opinion that something needs to be changed in favour of tanks.

    Whether you agree or disagree, the changes made in to Guard during Mod 16 implicitly imply that was the point of the changes to Guard.

    Guard was redesigned as a button to use for tank checks/the occasional breathing room and all other attacks are supposed to be taken to the face to justify the healer role.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,799 Arc User
    edited May 2
    rjc9000 said:



    Whether you agree or disagree, the changes made in to Guard during Mod 16 implicitly imply that was the point of the changes to Guard.

    Guard was redesigned as a button to use for tank checks/the occasional breathing room and all other attacks are supposed to be taken to the face to justify the healer role.

    Oh I completely understood the Mod 16 change and was cool with it in Mod 19. It became a problem with Mod 20 when they halved the effectiveness of Defence, threw CA around like confetti, reduced base HP & external sources of extra HP and nerfed healing on insignias.

    So yes, now it's a problem.

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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    edited May 2
    > @armadeonx said:
    > Oh I completely understood the Mod 16 change and was cool with it in Mod 19. It became a problem with Mod 20 when they halved the effectiveness of Defence, threw CA around like confetti, reduced base HP & external sources of extra HP and nerfed healing on insignias.
    >
    > So yes, now it's a problem.

    Defense is just one layer of damage reduction.
    You seem to (once again) forget how awareness, critical avoidance and deflect/deflect severity adds to the Paladins total damage resistance. In addition to this, the Paladin is able to get about +70% damage resistance from powers/feats/items.
    Adding all these resistances gives Paladin the highest EhP of all tanks.

    HP is an issue for lower/medium geared players indeed, as they need the same defensive stats as the higher itemlevel players without the HP gained from itemlevel itaelf.

    Nerfing insignias to enforce the need for a healer in queues is fine imho.
    Post edited by wilbur626 on
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.

    Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,487 Community Moderator
    Thread has been cleansed of a lot of bickering and name calling. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but please do so in a manner that is respectful.
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  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    > @sagakaiyume#0847 said:
    > @cwhitesidedev#9752 @noworries#8859 please come in and say something about where the future of tanking/paladins are going. Chris you main a pally and have some say with what happens, so it'd be useful having you comment. This thread keeps coming up and it needs proper handling. @kreatyve (sorry only community manager I can remember) if you can guide this conversation a bit as an unbiased overseer would also be helpful but can understand you not wanting to get caught up in this.

    He doesn’t work here anymore. but yes, we need someone to tell us they will fix the paladin or give us a race reroll. stats and hp we can acquire is nothing to be proud of and the fun playing it is 0/10. :’(

    stats with daily doesn’t count because it’s to slow ap gain. And damage reduction encounters should not be used on trash mobs because 3 aggro encounters is more effective and in most cases needed. In boss fights only 1 damage reduction encounter is used. So stats with daily and all the defensive encounters should not be used to determine the survivability of paladin..
    Post edited by thordet91#6067 on
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    Dailies and encounters should not be used to determine the survivability of the paladin.

    Trash 3 aggro encounters are used to be most effective

    Boss 2 aggro encounters and 1 defensive encounter.

    The daily can only be used on tank busters.

    The damage reduction we have in fight is our stats, players that play other classes are using our defensive encounters and daily to determine our survivability do not understand how paladins work at all
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    >
    > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.

    Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > >
    > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    >
    > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?

    Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?.. I can’t get more then that, everything is mythic and rank 15 defensive stats...
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > > >
    > > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    > >
    > > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    >
    > Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?..

    At 49k itemlevel my paladin has 88% defense, 66,8% awareness, 75% critical avoidance, 90% deflect and 67,9% deflect severity. 870k HP.

    It can almost look like you are doing something wrong when balancing your stats.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > > > >
    > > > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    > > >
    > > > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    > >
    > > Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?..
    >
    > At 49k itemlevel my paladin has 88% defense, 66,8% awareness, 75% critical avoidance, 90% deflect and 67,9% deflect severity. 870k HP.
    >
    > It can almost look like you are doing something wrong when balancing your stats.
    >
    >

    Not without a group and buffs you are... you can’t equip assassins in defense, companions with defense% defensive insignias and gear wrong... good for you tho, you broke the game, you have 70%? more defense then me.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    edited May 3
    > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    > > > >
    > > > > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    > > >
    > > > Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?..
    > >
    > > At 49k itemlevel my paladin has 88% defense, 66,8% awareness, 75% critical avoidance, 90% deflect and 67,9% deflect severity. 870k HP.
    > >
    > > It can almost look like you are doing something wrong when balancing your stats.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Not without a group and buffs you are... you can’t equip assassins in defense, companions with defense% defensive insignias and gear wrong... good for you tho, you broke the game, you have 70%? more defense then me.

    Without a group.

    Why would you gear with 6x offense slots in companion gear if you have survivability issues ?
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    > > > >
    > > > > Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?..
    > > >
    > > > At 49k itemlevel my paladin has 88% defense, 66,8% awareness, 75% critical avoidance, 90% deflect and 67,9% deflect severity. 870k HP.
    > > >
    > > > It can almost look like you are doing something wrong when balancing your stats.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > Not without a group and buffs you are... you can’t equip assassins in defense, companions with defense% defensive insignias and gear wrong... good for you tho, you broke the game, you have 70%? more defense then me.
    >
    > Without a group.
    >
    > Why would you gear with 6x offense slots in companion gear if you have survivability issues ?

    Because I don’t have dps and my companion need it? You told people to use a active companion for the lack of dps and tanners.. and now you ask me why I have it. I’m speechless. Happy gaming bud.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    > @thordet91#6067 said:
    >
    >
    > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > > @wilbur626 said:
    > > > > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Wilbur626: the numbers are fine.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Why do you choose to have that low defensive stats ?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Low? I have only defensive stats and 0 hp equipped That’s the problem we are trying to tell you about?..
    > > > >
    > > > > At 49k itemlevel my paladin has 88% defense, 66,8% awareness, 75% critical avoidance, 90% deflect and 67,9% deflect severity. 870k HP.
    > > > >
    > > > > It can almost look like you are doing something wrong when balancing your stats.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Not without a group and buffs you are... you can’t equip assassins in defense, companions with defense% defensive insignias and gear wrong... good for you tho, you broke the game, you have 70%? more defense then me.
    > >
    > > Without a group.
    > >
    > > Why would you gear with 6x offense slots in companion gear if you have survivability issues ?
    >
    > Because I don’t have dps and my companion need it? You told people to use a active companion for the lack of dps and tanners.. and now you ask me why I have it. I’m speechless. Happy gaming bud.

    For adventure zones and events like Hell Pit, active companion and “full DPS” spec is of course viable. If you are using this setup and expecting the full tank experience, you misunderstood what I meant when recommending solutions for lack of damage dealt.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 3
    > @wilbur626 said:
    > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > Op have the worst forte, we are losing critical avoidance when we use divinity. We need to use a daily to get to 90% awareness for a few seconds. And we have no dps path. I do not understand how anyone can argue about the paladin not being in a bad spot either you like the class or not.
    >
    > Paladin is the only tank that has deflect severity forte, making paladins the only tanks able to reach the breakpoint where deflect/deflect severity beats critical avoidance when calculating effective hitpoints.
    >
    > There are several ways to work around the lack of a DPS path. One way is to use a buffer up summoned companion, another way is to deal damage based on hitpoints (chitters, manticores mane, greater everfrost set).

    > > > > > > > > @thordet91#6067 said:
    > > > > > > > > Logged in again yesterday with my 52k paladin. With 90% def, 70% awareness 55 critical avoidance, 60% deflect and 850k hp. Xuna + 6 indomitable. Can’t solo a minor heroic in sharendar and dies in the hell pit. I will take another break for 2 months. F this.


    > > >
    > > > Why would you gear with 6x offense slots in companion gear if you have survivability issues ?
    > >
    > > Because I don’t have dps and my companion need it? You told people to use a active companion for the lack of dps and tanners.. and now you ask me why I have it. I’m speechless. Happy gaming bud.
    >
    > For adventure zones and events like Hell Pit, active companion and “full DPS” spec is of course viable. If you are using this setup and expecting the full tank experience, you misunderstood what I meant when recommending solutions for lack of damage dealt.

    Speechless..
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