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Why do you hate tanks?

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  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    And for HAMSTER sake, why woud we still need 15k deflect on our drift globe? This artifacts need more attention

    15k from one source like that lets you look to other things for other stats you need.
    IMO, we need our deflect as high as we can get, all the time as a tank, not for 1 minute later. And, the problem is never about the ratings, but the other contribution to reach atleast 70% with Caprese.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 970 Arc User
    edited February 28
    Now question for tanks..

    What if there would be added feats something like these legacy boons?

    Fey Thistle - When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 3000 damage to your attacker.
    Frozen Reflection -When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 5000/6000/7000 damage to your attacker.
    ( note values not finals, I only picked due mechanics).

    Would such abilities be sufficient for you when comes dps? You still tank and by tanking you do extra dps.

    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
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  • melechestmelechest Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    @hadestemplar#9918

    To be honest, i wouldnt mind them but i wouldnt want then either.

    As long as i dont need an hour to kill a group of mobs or do something, i dont care about how much damage i deal.

    I would much rather prefer they give us the ability to raise our defensive stats. As it stands now, even with the companion bonuses, you can either choose to increase 1 defensive stat by "a lot" or increase 2 stats by a little bit, from what i have seen most sacrifice HP.

    Plus, if they bring these changes DPS will abuse them. Like they did with the "focused retaliation" master boon. Many DPS abused it for damage. Now they changed it and it doesnt reflect damage, only increases some stats. if they make them into boons. Feats like these exist for tanks, at least for paladins and fighters, for barbies i dont know. Paladins have an aura that deals damage when you or a party member gets hit and for fighters it deals back damage when you deflect. But, really, at least for the paladin feat, the magnitude is a whooping 10. And i can tell you, when you dont build damage 10 magnitude is extremely low.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,223 Arc User



    IMO, we need our deflect as high as we can get, all the time as a tank, not for 1 minute later. And, the problem is never about the ratings, but the other contribution to reach atleast 70% with Caprese.

    That Deflect also applies to allies.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 1
    greywynd said:



    IMO, we need our deflect as high as we can get, all the time as a tank, not for 1 minute later. And, the problem is never about the ratings, but the other contribution to reach atleast 70% with Caprese.

    That Deflect also applies to allies.
    Yes, and what is your point? Because we are talking about the lacking of gear that improves or atleast make tanking is much more ease.
    Post edited by dietzgen#3883 on
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    Only when enough tanks stop queueing and DPS players start complaining they can't get into dungeons will Cryptic do something. Either by helping tanks or removing the necessity for them.

    It's already started - the RQ has already moved from 50/50 waiting for tank or healer to mostly tank.
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  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    I main Tank with a Healer and DPS as secondary.

    RTQ has been looking for tank mostly for a long time, it has got worse since the last combat change.

    I would say that for every 1000 RTQ runs I Q for

    900 - bonus is Tank
    99 - bonus is Healer
    1 - bonus is DPS


  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,263 Arc User
    edited March 1
    lantern22 said:

    I main Tank with a Healer and DPS as secondary.

    RTQ has been looking for tank mostly for a long time, it has got worse since the last combat change.

    I would say that for every 1000 RTQ runs I Q for

    900 - bonus is Tank
    99 - bonus is Healer
    1 - bonus is DPS


    I agree. I have a tank and a healer I use for quick RQ run AD farming. It used to be 50/50 role bonus tank/heal, but recently it is really hard to find role bonus for healer.

    Cryptic probably have good statistics on this. I would assume they generate data on how much the various archetypes are played, since archetype playtime is a good input to the balancing discussion. What are you going to do about it, Cryptic?
  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 1
    lantern22 said:

    I main Tank with a Healer and DPS as secondary.

    RTQ has been looking for tank mostly for a long time, it has got worse since the last combat change.

    I would say that for every 1000 RTQ runs I Q for

    900 - bonus is Tank
    99 - bonus is Healer
    1 - bonus is DPS


    Yeah, currently me and the other 2 tanks on our alliance only login for our alliance activity, then queue together, and we wont do it if we are lacking tank or healer on our side, we sometimes PUG a dps, which is very rarely happens, but never ever will for a tank and healer.
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Member Posts: 134 Arc User

    Now question for tanks..

    What if there would be added feats something like these legacy boons?

    Fey Thistle - When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 3000 damage to your attacker.
    Frozen Reflection -When you Deflect an attack you deal up to 5000/6000/7000 damage to your attacker.
    ( note values not finals, I only picked due mechanics).

    Would such abilities be sufficient for you when comes dps? You still tank and by tanking you do extra dps.

    I suppose this may help a Pally level, but it wouldn't fix the main problem that tanks are getting absolutely hammered by mobs. We can't get our stats high and, like melechest said, damage resistance is seemingly broken. The defense formula is absolutely stupid and isn't working. If I'm not running with a good healer I just don't play my tank anymore.
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited March 1
    I tank in rtq. In redq i play as a dps (layout) and therefore (i tank in rtq) i know how to take first few hits so I can help a tank. Or tank boss with my dps layout if tank die... Also. DPS always complains on support classes. You will never read support classes complains about crappy dps performing. So nothing strange about - less tanks ingame.
    Post edited by thany#4351 on
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    I still have no clue about my tank... other than his theme song, :trollface:

    When King Thorn throws his mighty shield, All those who chose to oppose his shield must yield!
    If he's led to a fight and a duel is due, Then you know exactly what he'll precisely do.
    When King Thorn throws his mighty shield!


    Anvil of DooM! Shield Throw and Bull sh... Charge!
    Earth Shaker and Second Wind.
    Brazen Slash and Heavy Slash and

    just Slash...
    image
    ... he helps out a lot.


    My Feets? I have two feet... :confused: OH! Feats...

    Heavier Slash, Ricochet, Roiling Hatred, Land Waster, and Executioner's Cut.

    Oh and I have a whole TWO boon points on my health.

    Just killing time...
  • xtremozxtremoz Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited March 2

    continuously finding myself in RTQ's like demogorgon with 2 chickenshit tanks that refuse to tank..this happened twice in a row today, 2nd time 5 people just bailed and left before Goristo, and the 5 of us that were left...someone kept aiming goristo at the black portals and healing it..doh!, still we completed it on silver in the end, and as a dps class my warlock did 80% of the total damage and 40% of the total healing (dedicated squire companion).
    both runs would have been so much easier if just one tank that queued as a tank..had actually had the small spherical objects to actually tank.
    all content is a bit messed up atm, but if you have no intention of playing your class, youre just making it worse for everyone else.
    queueing as a tank and hoping that the other tank will do the tanking......well ..it seems the other guy is thinking the same about you.


    this is happening, cuz lot of player want the extra ad reward for tank/healer, and just want a fast queue... thats not tank problem is a greedy person problem... thats no1 can fix. Gets even worst when u can get ilv to queue super easy (if u still need to reach it) make 30k + minimum to queue so they have to at least get some effort.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2

    continuously finding myself in RTQ's like demogorgon with 2 chickenshit tanks that refuse to tank..this happened twice in a row today, 2nd time 5 people just bailed and left before Goristo, and the 5 of us that were left...someone kept aiming goristo at the black portals and healing it..doh!, still we completed it on silver in the end, and as a dps class my warlock did 80% of the total damage and 40% of the total healing (dedicated squire companion).
    both runs would have been so much easier if just one tank that queued as a tank..had actually had the small spherical objects to actually tank.
    all content is a bit messed up atm, but if you have no intention of playing your class, youre just making it worse for everyone else.
    queueing as a tank and hoping that the other tank will do the tanking......well ..it seems the other guy is thinking the same about you.

    This is bearable if you draw a group with more than one good DPS, unless you also have a player running around opening every shard they can find. Then, you have swarms of adds plus demogorgon at every large crystal battle... and players start to abandon. Then, the only tactic left if you stay is to go from the spawning portal (after you die) and do hit & run sorties at the large crystal spawns (if you can find them in the chaos). The process can take over 30 minutes, can cost up to 100,000 AD in personal consumables, and by the end of phase 1 you may have no team left to help you take on the boss in stage 2 and 3. I have tried to salvage these runs many times and only succeeded twice. It gives a feeling of failure even when it is a victory. Cryptic should add a new title: "Sole Survivor" - complete an RTQ solo
  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User

    continuously finding myself in RTQ's like demogorgon with 2 chickenshit tanks that refuse to tank..this happened twice in a row today, 2nd time 5 people just bailed and left before Goristo, and the 5 of us that were left...someone kept aiming goristo at the black portals and healing it..doh!, still we completed it on silver in the end, and as a dps class my warlock did 80% of the total damage and 40% of the total healing (dedicated squire companion).
    both runs would have been so much easier if just one tank that queued as a tank..had actually had the small spherical objects to actually tank.
    all content is a bit messed up atm, but if you have no intention of playing your class, youre just making it worse for everyone else.
    queueing as a tank and hoping that the other tank will do the tanking......well ..it seems the other guy is thinking the same about you.

    I'm assuming this is a PUG run, so yeah on PUG run you will encounterig some PUGnut. Some tank acting like a DPS, a DPS that charge a head and aggro a whole bunch mobs and bring back to you, a healer that think he/she is a tank/dps and refuse to heal the teams, etc.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User

    continuously finding myself in RTQ's like demogorgon with 2 chickenshit tanks that refuse to tank..this happened twice in a row today, 2nd time 5 people just bailed and left before Goristo, and the 5 of us that were left...someone kept aiming goristo at the black portals and healing it..doh!, still we completed it on silver in the end, and as a dps class my warlock did 80% of the total damage and 40% of the total healing (dedicated squire companion).
    both runs would have been so much easier if just one tank that queued as a tank..had actually had the small spherical objects to actually tank.
    all content is a bit messed up atm, but if you have no intention of playing your class, youre just making it worse for everyone else.
    queueing as a tank and hoping that the other tank will do the tanking......well ..it seems the other guy is thinking the same about you.

    I'm now seeing a higher percentage of inexperienced tanks in RQ as the experienced ones are queueing less. Inspect them, you'll see they have poor gear choices and stat allocations and barely scrape into the run with item level.

    However, having dps players running around and opening up all the green portals is also a major problem suddenly! Swamping everyone with hordes of unnecessary mobs despite me shouting in chat "ONLY OPEN PURPLES!!!!"
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    ...especially in light of Grazillax telling everyone to close the tears. Not open them.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • madrigal#2900 madrigal Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    thanks for all the answers guys.
    i was just throwing my two cents into the original question about tanks, and it only bothers me in pug rtq's i have had 4 that went the same way in 2 days..with 8 different 'not-a-tanks'
    i play a warlock, 54k ilvl 6400 dmg rating and stack a huge amount of incoming heals, so i can tank demo for quite a bit myself..ive started to swap out my dps comp and use the dedicated squire for more healing/aoe cleanse/aoe healing just to cope with pugs, but ximzero was right, ill use 2 scrolls of life, 4-6 heal stones , and the end reward...1 scroll of life lol.
    the last 2 weeks i have been mentoring and gearing up 3 new players who main a tank..im trying to seed the dungeons with geared tanks lmao.
    i have the odd feeling that a lot of the players that quit must have been tanks...
    they need more <3 from cryptic.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    What’s funny is it’s not that much of a rework. The boons are the same, feats, powers, items.
    The only thing changed is how we have to gear up to get stats and hit points. That and the suped up ADs.

    But combat hasn’t gone through the change that happened in mod 16.

    Only now it’s a system of diminishing returns that’s negatively affecting Tanks out of the gate.

    Meta builds will be out in 6 weeks and we will be no better or worse off than where we were before this change. Except for Tanks.
    You can’t be mid level and expect to get through content, especially solo.
    If you’re 50+ then you should be fine as you probably have all the gear and companions you need. And to Tank, you NEED them to get the hit points and basic stats.
    Casual players will struggle, new players will likely change class or quit if they haven’t found a guild to support them and a large number will only take Their Tanks out for friends and Alliance.

    RTQ and REQ are going to have a Good Tank shortage.

    Is what it is at the moment.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    It'll only change when the queue times get so long that the dps majority start screaming that they can't get into dungeons as there are no tanks to join the queue system...
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


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  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    It'll only change when the queue times get so long that the dps majority start screaming that they can't get into dungeons as there are no tanks to join the queue system...

    I think the AD bonus greed will fix it. Someone will join as fake tank to grab AD bonus. You can only measure the tank shortage at end content.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    edited March 6

    armadeonx said:

    It'll only change when the queue times get so long that the dps majority start screaming that they can't get into dungeons as there are no tanks to join the queue system...

    I think the AD bonus greed will fix it. Someone will join as fake tank to grab AD bonus. You can only measure the tank shortage at end content.
    Yeah I'm seeing this in the 'easy' 5 man dungeons - more lowbie tanks are taking up the slack but they aren't queueing for epics in large numbers. I've seen some though. (and yes, they are terrible)
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited March 8
    Hmmm. Today i got into Spellplague Caverns redq... Tank was into mode - i'am waiting for something, but I don't know what to do. No initiative. I can take some, but didn't take tank layout. And when tank doesn't know what to do... After that it was another redq - lomm. With three new players (free artifacts etc etc). They didn't even know mechanics. After that - Lair of Lostmauth - as a dps I tanked all the time last boss and mostly before and i took more dmg than a tank. And he had "nice" 35K+ ilvl but he just don't know how to tank - even lol. He just switched to tank layout for bonus ad. We were lucky that one who left last had fighter comp. and companion did the last hit. Even healers weren't any better. I died in LoL after that i revived healer. No point to go further.
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