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Changes to bondings and companions

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  • hotfrostwormhotfrostworm Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    tgwolf said:

    My wife asked me to translate this wall of text to her tonight when she calls me. From my perspective, unless I am wrong this is just a developer who allowed you in on upcoming alpha changes. The changes are not even set and many of you are walking around with sandwich signs, "The End is Nigh! Repent!". I thought my parents were the only doom prophets like that! :lol:

    I read the developer blog, and it clearly states "We are currently working on some improvements..." they hope the changes will be up for previewing next month or maybe next year. Then formulas are being tossed about like everyone knows for sure. Like @tchefi#6735 said above, "As for every big change, I will wait and see.".

    Ahh, you must be new here.

    When they post upcoming changes there is no "wait and see" about it.

    Those ARE the changes, they don't listen to anyone's feedback about it and they don't change.

    Unless of course they find an element of the changes that benefits the playerbase in any way; then that is immediately changed without delay.
    I have been around, unlike Woodsy the Owl, I just don't give hoot about game mechanics. My current task is to figure out what they changed in module 18 that screwed up chat. Other than that, I am poking my wife's characters for her. She likes them to pray even when absent, because she is a jealous god and they should have no gods before her. I was in PE listening to all the grief about the end of the world garbage and came here to get the scoop. From a lot of the negative feedback, I am sensing many people who want nothing but free candy. Do yourself a huge favor and stay away from those panel vans!

    If all of you believe it is "written in stone", then why are any you even here talking about it?

    I told her about the player chaos, she said this is normal, and I sent her the link to Jared Sears' blog. She read it and replied, no big deal, see you in January. Tell everyone to have fun.

    okay then, have fun!
  • keru#9279 keru Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    > @bruce55 said:
    > after all the time and effort and you screw us again. Do you enjoy doing things to make people decide to leave the game and not support it. everyother week you do something stupid. geez when will it stop. I can guareentee you will neve get another penny from me and never support this craptic bs anymore.

    It will never stop! The methods this folks are using for cash grabbing is crazy! I took a break from this game over a month ago and was planning on coming back to finish milestone 3 and 4 together but hell no. I am now more assured i am making the best decision: I'M QUITING FOR GOOD!!! This game is too punishing and there are more rewarding games out there.
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    deanski07 said:

    Hey Cryptic don't forget you will have to change things like darkened storytellers journal and replace the stat for companion influence, also the tier 3 boon companion influence. Does that mean everyone who has that boon active gets a free re-roll?

    Concerning the boon, what will most likely happen is that they will completely reset everyone's characters and make out they are doing you a favor by offering a 'free re-roll token'. It's happened so many times before, but usually when they re-work one class, they just reset the whole thing and you log-on and find you have to re-create your character all over again. I can't see them just changing one boon and leaving the rest untouched, they will probably reset all stats (including the basic skill points) and you will have to re-do them all over again. I have been caught out I think three times by this and it's a huge downer when it happens, makes you feel violated and want to quit, I now have a record of screenshots of all my boons and skill points saved somewhere so when (not if) the time comes they once again reset my character against my will, I at least know what choices I made before and can put it all back without as much pain. I suggest everyone makes a record like this because you're going to log in at some point and find it's all blank and you have to re-do your build.
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 628 Arc User

    Will there be a trade in for Dark enchants as well?

    They will just swap a new stat in place of the companion influence stat and expect you to like it or lump it. Dark enchantments have had this happen before. They used to have a lifesteal stat (as you did damage some of that damage was returned to you as a small heal) and a movement stat (obvious what that is), both those stats were scrapped from enchants (lifesteal scrapped totally even though you can still find rings called 'ring of sudden lifesteal' in the game, they changed what the ring did but were too lazy to change the name lol) and they just added the new stats to Dark enchantments as a replacement. I remember I had a GWF back then who relied heavily on lifesteal and movement and wasn't very happy when it was removed. But I don't expect based on past actions that they will compensate people for their Darks changing, they'll just put a new stat in to replace comp infl and leave it at that.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    I think the bondings were the main problem they had with the scaling formula, because the system keeps in mind Item level, and bondings and the stat transfer were messing all.

    In the roadmap there was a revision of scaling and I think this is the main reason. The problem is that the community is so pissed already, that any change (for good or bad) will create a flame. They should be more transparent with us.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,086 Arc User
    rev#7881 said:


    Just look at mod 16 when they said we could exchange all our unbound enchants at the vendor and then they made them account bound...

    At what point did they ever imply that the traded for stones would be unbound?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,235 Arc User
    edited November 2020

    I think the bondings were the main problem they had with the scaling formula, because the system keeps in mind Item level, and bondings and the stat transfer were messing all.

    The problem with bondings was not only their IL effects, but also that they made pet gear and runestones a lot more valuable than other gear. You got a 4x multiplier on everything on pet, that made pet stuff a LOT more valuable than other equipment.

    Now everything will be 1:1, which is a much better system. You get stat/performance upgrade linearly with your investments.

    As for how the characters look after this fix, there are two issues to discuss: Total stat pool and stat distribution

    Total stat pool:
    Since people have very varying stat pools to a large extent depending on their Bonding ranks, there is no way Cryptic will be able to let all people keep their current stat pools when Bondings go away. If they do, a lot of people will be elevated to BiS overnight. So the best geared people can expect to lose statpoints that will need to be recovered by levelling pets to Mythical.

    Stat distribution:
    Currently a lot of the stats to meet cap come from the pet gear and runestones, while the enchantments are used to boost Power and HP. Since pet gear and runestones will have relatively less weight after the change, it is reasonable to expect that , even if the total stat pool is constant, people will be stuck with stats well below cap and way too much power and hp.
    So expect to replace a lot of your enchantments to balance your stats.
  • flecia#3114 flecia Member Posts: 53 Arc User

    While I actually wanted bondings removed this does not accomplish what my reasoning is.
    I get their whole IL desires but there new system wont likely make it any better.

    The point of removing bonding fro me me is to remove such high dependencies on companions.
    If you want to make IL more accurate then start by making the gears we wear do more and represent their IL.

    No pet should make that much difference on the output of a character (this is not even counting Xuna or chickens).
    I mean its painfully obvious if your running pretty much any dungeon if your forget to summon your pet. They just are too much an influence. (by the way removing comp inf I love this ... but what will my Dark runes give me then?)

    I am not saying to remove pets all-together, or to make thier contribution nothing, but if i ran a dungeon say LoMM, i should be able to run it without losing like half my total damage output if my pet is not summoned. A pet should only make about 10-15% of a difference at most.


    I don't play a lot of group stuff in fact 99% of what I play is solo and I love companions as they really do add flavour to the game and as a solo player they come in really handy. If they make companions nothing but vanity items I'd stop playing that day. (And that's coming from someone who's been playing for over 4 years and invested well over anything I want to admit.) I play for fun and entertainment and some nostalgia. Both companions and mounts add very much to this. You get rid of companions you might as well just rename the game Fantasy Fortnite.


    You are entitled to your opinion.


    Pets in the grand scheme of things are nothing more than a buff that is overblown.
    Maybe you are just so used to how this game works you do not know any better, but I have played quite a few MMO's and NONE of them put this much influence on pets. When your pet can do as much dps as the dps char over a dungeon that is ridiculous. When a pet summoned adds 20% to your stats that is ridiculous. My stats with no pets would be say 75k with pet 95k-100k.

    The real problem with IL is that the GEAR does not reflect well to its IL. The gear bonuses are either really nice or just suck terribly and yet the IL is exactly the same. Take for example gloves, compare your IC gloves with virtually any other IL gloves that are close in IL, IC gloves adds 5k power, other gloves are like 300 power for every person in your group which for most dungeons would be 1500 power. But the IL is the exact same? There is the real problem .... any gear with same IL should have equally good buffs (though do not have to be exactly the same).

    You are so worried about not being able to solo content without your pet because you just dont know any better. Imagine if all your gear came with good stats/buffs and you could solo content with or without your pet.

    Pets should only adds a small amount of buffs that the elitists will salivate over even though the net effects minimal (if at all).
    Much like they do salavate over not needed t3 pants and shirts, which give a small small boost but not having them wont hurt.
    End of day I think pets should contribute SOME, but not be a crutch in player development such that if you do not have your pets pretty much fully loaded, BiS that your crippled to run/do anything useful.

    Gear talks, skill talks not pets.












  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 663 Arc User
    Imagine, just for a second, that the "limited resources" instead focused on something that was broken and was not introduced/already changed in the last 5 mods.
    I mean, we can also go back to Tiger/Archons/Siegemaster. I don't mind either way - but don't we have areas that could also use some attention? Or do we rework workshop again to completely abandon it another time?
    - bye bye -
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,099 Arc User

    I think the bondings were the main problem they had with the scaling formula, because the system keeps in mind Item level, and bondings and the stat transfer were messing all.

    The problem with bondings was not only their IL effects, but also that they made pet gear and runestones a lot more valuable than other gear. You got a 4x multiplier on everything on pet, that made pet stuff a LOT more valuable than other equipment.

    Now everything will be 1:1, which is a much better system. You get stat/performance upgrade linearly with your investments.

    As for how the characters look after this fix, there are two issues to discuss: Total stat pool and stat distribution

    Total stat pool:
    Since people have very varying stat pools to a large extent depending on their Bonding ranks, there is no way Cryptic will be able to let all people keep their current stat pools when Bondings go away. If they do, a lot of people will be elevated to BiS overnight. So the best geared people can expect to lose statpoints that will need to be recovered by levelling pets to Mythical.

    Stat distribution:
    Currently a lot of the stats to meet cap come from the pet gear and runestones, while the enchantments are used to boost Power and HP. Since pet gear and runestones will have relatively less weight after the change, it is reasonable to expect that , even if the total stat pool is constant, people will be stuck with stats well below cap and way too much power and hp.
    So expect to replace a lot of your enchantments to balance your stats.
    Agree, now adjusting stats is a pain, you put a companion item with the stat you need and that stat skyrocket lots of times passing for 20k what you really need.

    I hope the new system is much more friendly with this
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • flecia#3114 flecia Member Posts: 53 Arc User

    > @flecia#3114 said:

    > (Quote)

    >

    >

    > You are entitled to your opinion.

    >

    >

    > Pets in the grand scheme of things are nothing more than a buff that is overblown.

    > Maybe you are just so used to how this game works you do not know any better, but I have played quite a few MMO's and NONE of them put this much influence on pets. When your pet can do as much dps as the dps char over a dungeon that is ridiculous. When a pet summoned adds 20% to your stats that is ridiculous. My stats with no pets would be say 75k with pet 95k-100k.

    >

    > The real problem with IL is that the GEAR does not reflect well to its IL. The gear bonuses are either really nice or just suck terribly and yet the IL is exactly the same. Take for example gloves, compare your IC gloves with virtually any other IL gloves that are close in IL, IC gloves adds 5k power, other gloves are like 300 power for every person in your group which for most dungeons would be 1500 power. But the IL is the exact same? There is the real problem .... any gear with same IL should have equally good buffs (though do not have to be exactly the same).

    >

    > You are so worried about not being able to solo content without your pet because you just dont know any better. Imagine if all your gear came with good stats/buffs and you could solo content with or without your pet.

    >

    > Pets should only adds a small amount of buffs that the elitists will salivate over even though the net effects minimal (if at all).

    > Much like they do salavate over not needed t3 pants and shirts, which give a small small boost but not having them wont hurt.

    > End of day I think pets should contribute SOME, but not be a crutch in player development such that if you do not have your pets pretty much fully loaded, BiS that your crippled to run/do anything useful.

    >

    > Gear talks, skill talks not pets.



    Then by that logic all weapon damage should be needed because it's a bigger buff than any stats you could get, also need enchants because that's next in line, oh and also need magnitude of every power cause you mustn't have too much of that.



    The issue here isn't that pets gave so many stats. It's that players have been dicked one too many times. And according to Devs the stats won't change. So they've admitted this is a cash grab, and you're defending something they're not even claiming.



    If the gear we have gave good stats then the Devs would've been bankrupt a long time ago. People just don't want to reinvest in the same HAMSTER meta, over and over and over and over again. And every time we think "well, this is IT now, they won't make any more insane changes so we can have some consistency and focus on other HAMSTER that needs attention to get stronger" and then the Devs or whoever decides on this throws a damn nuclear wrench in there as a HAMSTER you to everyone, completely ignoring the fact that the community is dying and there's no going back if you lose more long time players.


    I have no idea what you just said, but it has nothing to do with anything.

    I think somewhere in there you are worried about about company not getting money or something. You know how much AD and elitist will pay to get a chest that adds base weapon damage? Probably more than anything they spend on pets. Of course the chests base damage effects should not be overblown such that one can not run a dungeon without it, but just enough to make it sexy. (Runes of magic was great with this, they would have full sets chest/helm/gloves/boots that would add buffs for having the full sets and the chest added just a smit of damage base, sets where gotten from running the lastest and greatest dungeon).

    Anyways, the POINT is not whatever your saying (cause i have no real idea what your saying). It is that pets play too much of a role in this game. My excitement about removing bonding stones will likely only lead to more disappointment because from what I can tell the dependancy on pets will probably end up being more, and harder for the new player to build. Now we all going to need 10 (?) mystic companions etc etc.




  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,086 Arc User



    The problem with bondings was not only their IL effects, but also that they made pet gear and runestones a lot more valuable than other gear. You got a 4x multiplier on everything on pet, that made pet stuff a LOT more valuable than other equipment.

    Now everything will be 1:1, which is a much better system. You get stat/performance upgrade linearly with your investments.

    Right up until you get scaled down.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • xxmantaraxxxxmantaraxx Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    Took six months off after major changes invalidated years of building my characters just to come back to this. I guess ill pop on for a bit sell off (trade in) the last bit of my hard work. My max rank bondings are the culmination of years of my time and money investment in neverwinter. I guess ill just stack the AD compensation (no where near the actual AD invested to make them) and come back when the next expansion launches.

    Ara Atheanes GWF
    Traxus Atheanes GF
    Bastiel Atheanes DC
    Ellara Atheanes CW
    Keira Atheanes TR
    Sarasin Atheanes SW
    Jerkface McGee HR
    -MANTARA- OP

  • fademist#5406 fademist Member Posts: 56 Arc User

    Took six months off after major changes invalidated years of building my characters just to come back to this. I guess ill pop on for a bit sell off (trade in) the last bit of my hard work. My max rank bondings are the culmination of years of my time and money investment in neverwinter. I guess ill just stack the AD compensation (no where near the actual AD invested to make them) and come back when the next expansion launches.

    good that mine was from the free giveaway period...
  • erikanudanerikanudan Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    I'd REALLY love to see the ability to change weapon set bonus' to another set.... as in, being able to equip the new Blessed Set or Legion's Guard, (or whatever set you are currently using) but choose which set bonus you want. However, it MUST be from a weapon set you already have in Collections, and randomize it at like 20 Cubes per re-roll for bonus choice. Most of the lvl 60 weapon sets have been nerfed already, so not much harm there.
    Stats on your equipped weapon set don't change, just the set bonus ... so you have that increase in demand to farm newer/older(!) sets and if the bonus doesn't suit your build, you can roll for one that does! So that BiS is no longer regarded as the highest ilvl weapon set you own, but the highest weapon set you own with the bonus YOU want on it!
    And any new weapon set drops you get come with their base bonus ... but are added to Collections, and you need both pieces in the set in Collections for it to be eligible to be re-rolled as the new bonus on whatever set you are using.
    With this implementation, you could not only convert those sets to Appearance, but also (maybe) get back some old outdated bonus you loved for your build.
    Or, you could just maybe add a means to upgrade older weapon sets (as you mentioned years ago) so they can be comparable and desirable again (Crafting comes to mind ... Artificing weapon upgrade tokens so you could add 5 to req lvl to a non-80 weapon set?) Make them BTA, make them hard and not easy to craft. Make people REALLY want to start looking into the timesink/AD sink of Mastercrafting (anything that removes AD from the market, right?) and consider IF they really want to take that Mirage set (or other older sets) to lvl 80. And obviously NOT at end-game lvl 80 set stats, but enough to make their endeavors worthwhile.
    There are a lot of unique builds ... it's NW! Build and play how you want! (I know I do!)
    For now, I'll wait for the companion changes and see how I must adjust again =P

    Elsill Killya - Neverguild

  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 239 Arc User


    In the roadmap there was a revision of scaling and I think this is the main reason. The problem is that the community is so pissed already, that any change (for good or bad) will create a flame. They should be more transparent with us.

    No, they shouldn't. This companion change is probably due to M20 next year and they were transparent enough to share it now, around 3 months beforehand.

    If they just followed their standard protocol and just dropped this on preview without saying anything, we would just have our standard 2-week long "I WILL QUIT THE GAME K THX BYE" threads that we have every mod, and some factual informational videos on youtube.

    But they had to be "transparent" and now we will have 3 or more months of complete economic instability in AH, progression basically halted for new players until the change is released due to the inflated price of bondings and companions and a bunch of people saying they'll quit even without knowing how the change is going to affect them.
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