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Changes to bondings and companions

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  • skinnydwarf#9750 skinnydwarf Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I'm back to the game after 1,5 y break and 90% my stuff has become worthless rubbish. I see that the game policy is not changing, constant forcing players to make costly changes. I know it's normal in many games. But now I'm kind of new players and you know what? For me it is unplayable. It seems to me that change of bondings will even more discourage new players.

    ps. about companions now i say one thing. Everyone (tank) uses pets with a bonus to HP. Where are the pets with bonuses to DR, ATT, etc. now it's a boring. Where did the buffs and debuff go? Only HP bonus wanted -.-
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 773 Arc User
    It is hard to judge the whole thing before it comes live, but all in all I am not convinced. The issue with IL could be easily solved by counting the sum of all stats on char, not item by item. But I like the idea to getting rid of bondings - as having your stats tied to companion stats is a bad idea.

    Sadly, proposed changes do not actually touch that link of stats. They retain it. There is not even mentioned some change to companion damage formula, so it would be disconnected at least virtually (and not forcing you to dump insane amount of ar.pen. on them while still having their attacks deflected)
    It does not touch the issue of most companions - that they technically function as a vanity pet.
    It does not touch the discrepancy of what def/off/utility companion slot can provide.
    ...it does not even specifically mention if the augment bonus will be a positive number. (I am looking at you, negative HP bonus)

    TBH I would prefer a fix to the companion system, not a great reshuffle that retains all the miseries.
  • flecia#3114 flecia Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    While I actually wanted bondings removed this does not accomplish what my reasoning is.
    I get their whole IL desires but there new system wont likely make it any better.

    The point of removing bonding fro me me is to remove such high dependencies on companions.
    If you want to make IL more accurate then start by making the gears we wear do more and represent their IL.

    No pet should make that much difference on the output of a character (this is not even counting Xuna or chickens).
    I mean its painfully obvious if your running pretty much any dungeon if your forget to summon your pet. They just are too much an influence. (by the way removing comp inf I love this ... but what will my Dark runes give me then?)

    I am not saying to remove pets all-together, or to make thier contribution nothing, but if i ran a dungeon say LoMM, i should be able to run it without losing like half my total damage output if my pet is not summoned. A pet should only make about 10-15% of a difference at most.


  • unknowndramaunknowndrama Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    I hope this will make all companions viable to use not just auguments and also i hope all fighter,tank,healer pets will be improved becose is quite boring to see all server using either bulette or chicken ..My question the exchange of bondings for astral diamonds..is that refined or rough astral diamonds becose the blog info doesnt states the type of astral diamonds.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    rikitaki said:


    It does not touch the discrepancy of what def/off/utility companion slot can provide.

    .

    NoWorries did say on the reddit post that they will make the companion slots the same for all classes, 1 defense, 1 offense, 1 utility and 2 universal or something like that

    (EDIT) "There are other quality of life changes we are working on at the same time. For example we are working on changing the companion ACB slots so that all classes have 1 Enhancement, 1 Offense, 1 Defense, 1 Utility, and 2 Universal slots. Something that has been requested since we rolled out those slots."
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    hail hydra :3 so question wat will hepen with comp influrence after bondings gone ?:3 still have 66%
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • hotfrostwormhotfrostworm Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    My wife asked me to translate this wall of text to her tonight when she calls me. From my perspective, unless I am wrong this is just a developer who allowed you in on upcoming alpha changes. The changes are not even set and many of you are walking around with sandwich signs, "The End is Nigh! Repent!". I thought my parents were the only doom prophets like that! :lol:

    I read the developer blog, and it clearly states "We are currently working on some improvements..." they hope the changes will be up for previewing next month or maybe next year. Then formulas are being tossed about like everyone knows for sure. Like @tchefi#6735 said above, "As for every big change, I will wait and see.".
  • madrigal#2900 madrigal Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    comp inf disappears also, which means dark enchants slotted in utils slots are completely worthless, we will (possibly) need to reset boons for the loss of the comp inf boon, and they will have to change the modifiers on every offhand item in game because they have a 5% comp inf modifier in their listing. theres also the issue with ability stats that give comp inf, i just hope they have actually identified every source of comp inf in game and have some stat/ability/item adjustments ready for us...or it could get quite messy
  • madrigal#2900 madrigal Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    comp inf is added through:
    dark enchants, and a few other utils slot enchants
    ability score -charisma,
    some artifacts,
    every offhand has a modifier that adds 5%,
    boons,
    dominance insignia
    this is going to involve major changes, and replacing comp inf with 'another stat' isnt going to be enough, as it cant just involve the addition of one stat, its in several places which means several stat and ability changes, we will no doubt need a free respec for ability scores,powers,boons.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,829 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Dark enchantment will have a new utility stat. Unless we know what it will be, we won't know if it is worthless or not.
    e.g. if they decide (very unlikely) to replace that utility stat to be power (I know that won't happen in utility), I would not say it is worthless.

    In short, comp inf will be replaced by another stat which we have no idea what it will be. Comp inf itself is 'new'. It used to be movement. Many were upset when they changed from movement to comp inf because they invested heavy (including myself back then) to get the movement.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • vastano#2343 vastano Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    i have a cleric (retired) a tank now pretty much retired and my dps that has taken me a year and a lot of cash to get right
    i will wait see what happens to my dps if as i am expecting it gets nerfed to oblivion then i am afraid i will probably go back to ddo
    we shall see
  • madrigal#2900 madrigal Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited November 2020

    Dark enchantment will have a new utility stat. Unless we know what it will be, we won't know if it is worthless or not.
    e.g. if they decide (very unlikely) to replace that utility stat to be power (I know that won't happen in utility), I would not say it is worthless.

    In short, comp inf will be replaced by another stat which we have no idea what it will be. Comp inf itself is 'new'. It used to be movement. Many were upset when they changed from movement to comp inf because they invested heavy (including myself back then) to get the movement.

    yes i know they wont be worthless as such because they will get a new stat, its just that almost all utils slots seem to add gold bonus/xp bonus/incoming heal %/glory bonus..none of which i really need im hoping its a useful stat, but i cant forsee that being the case.
    comp inf, yes i was around before mod 16 myself also. my comments around that were more concerning the number of items that give comp inf, not just dark enchants.
    im not all doom and gloom about it, i welcome the changes..mostly i enjoy the challenges that change brings, i play a 36.5k 248k power sw with stats at 108k ,Ca at 150k and 605k hp so im not partcularly concerned other than they get it right and that we may need free respecs, being able to trade bondings in for enchantments/runestones or ad will help a lot, it would be more helpful to be able to trade in darks also though as i face having to replace 5xr15 in total.
    .i dont feel that their changes should cost me money or time to rebalance, yet every major change seems to do that.

  • caldochaud#4880 caldochaud Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    While I am not thrilled with these changes, may I offer a suggestion to lessen the sting that players are going to feel?

    Please don't just offer us the means to trade in our Bonding Runestones, but give us the opportunity to also trade in our enchantments, insignia, companions and mounts as well. Why?

    Looking back at the changes that were made to companions and mounts back in Mod 16 (stat changes/performance/boosts), all of our character builds were messed up pretty bad... and while we could trade in our enchantments which was a welcome help, we were still stuck with broken companions and mounts.

    Everybody who has played this game has put in a considerable amount of time, AD and ZEN to get the character builds, companions and mounts that best suits their playstyle. This is why Mod 16 hurt players so much as it seriously undermined everything we worked for. Hence, with the planned changes to companions, is it not reasonable that we players may need a complete reset in our builds and swap out everything?

    - Companions traded in for an equal quality-level companion-choice box.
    - Mounts traded in for an equal quality-level mount-choice box.
    - Artifacts, Enchantments, Runestones and Insignia traded in for an equal quality-level choice box.

    Sometimes starting over with a clean slate is a good thing.
    "Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 419 Arc User


    The only way they can make any of this Alt friendly is to allow the reclaim of any reclaimable Mount and Companion; including without exception all those that are upgraded to Mythic (as in whether it was reclaimable prior to that point or not) on every character you have at the highest rarity you own on your Account.

    Which will never happen.
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, it would be much better to change the companion bolster system to count in the 10 highest companions across all categories, instead of counting only the 5 highest for each category as it is planned right now.

    And while the current "Bonding to AD Exchange Rates" look good "on paper", i'm pretty sure that even trading in three Rank 15 Bonding Runestones won't cover the costs for "rebuilding" the stats on a single character.

    Trading 3 R15s equates to 7.8 million AD.

    Barely enough to buy 2 useful R15s. Especially once the general populace learns of the changes.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    It's honestly kinda funny - collaborative development was used as basically throwing the bone to the dog to distract him from the absolute poo storm going on behind him.
    And the lack of responses is worrying. I know this is the bottom priority, but still, when ya make changes like this you need communication. It's CC/CS 101.
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    Also to anyone angry, happy or neutral about the changes; put that aside for the moment and make sure you let EVERYONE you can about the changes before any of the upcoming big sales.

    Most people don't read the forums and ideally let's try and aim for zero $$ spent on ZEN for the sales this year.

    If they're going to waste peoples time and money then don't give them any in return.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,936 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    tgwolf said:

    regenerde said:

    Well, it would be much better to change the companion bolster system to count in the 10 highest companions across all categories, instead of counting only the 5 highest for each category as it is planned right now.

    And while the current "Bonding to AD Exchange Rates" look good "on paper", i'm pretty sure that even trading in three Rank 15 Bonding Runestones won't cover the costs for "rebuilding" the stats on a single character.

    Trading 3 R15s equates to 7.8 million AD.
    Barely enough to buy 2 useful R15s. Especially once the general populace learns of the changes.
    Well, i was more thinking about the costs for increasing the quality of companions from epic or legendary to mythic, but going for Rank 15 enchantments instead might be a better idea, since those can be moved from one character to another.

    Prices for good Rank 15 enchantments will go bonkers unless they throw in another Tarmalune Trade Bar sale or bring back the Rank 15 Enchantment Choice Pack into the ZEN shop at the same time.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    This changes are going very fast... I haven't found mount collar except that given one. Not even useless white one. Not to mention materials for collar upgrade. Most players don't have even legendary mount and we recently "got" mythic option. And we will get mythic companions ? And what to do with AD for bondings ? Will we get good options in WB ? I don't thinks so. Wait for months to get zen ? Or you intend to do something with zax too ? I didn't get these bondings for free as a gift, like some people did. What about my alts with only one companion ? They will have the same stasts ? I don't think so. This is very wrong way and very annoying. You should introduce monthly subscription. It can't be more expensive than this.
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    If I understand the "problem" they are trying to "fix", it is that the ilvl for companions/companion items does not scale like the stats from them do. i.e. 1000 ilvl companion gear gives more stats than corresponding 1000 ilvl player gear, because of the multiplier from bondings/comp influence/companion bolster. There is a simple fix for this; simply multiply the ilvl granted by companions/comp items by the same coefficient that the stat given by them are multiplied by. Problem FIXED, ilvl now scales as expected, directly corresponding to total stats. This would change absolutely nothing for any character's "playability", as there would be zero change in their stats.

    The "fix" they are apparently pursuing tho is to eliminate the sources of the multiplier, and PARTIALLY replace it with stat increases on other items (e.g. enchants). If you do the maths, this is not really possible unless they increase the stat contribution from enchants by about an order of magnitude (e.g. a radiant R15 would need to go from 2400 power in an offense slot, to around 22400, a 10x increase). The end result for an character with high level bondings and high companion influence is going to be an absolutely massive NERF to their stat totals. Which is all that matters. Remember, ilvl is irrelevant, only stats actually matter to a character's performance.

    TLDR: If the net total amount of stats you have after the changes DROPS, you have been NERFED, regardless of what if any change in ilvl.

    I also find it... interesting? that the "price" they are going to offer for bonding runestones is only around half of what it would cost to create one of that rank, and despite the fact that many bondings came from zen store only purchases...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,829 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    tgwolf said:

    regenerde said:

    Well, it would be much better to change the companion bolster system to count in the 10 highest companions across all categories, instead of counting only the 5 highest for each category as it is planned right now.

    And while the current "Bonding to AD Exchange Rates" look good "on paper", i'm pretty sure that even trading in three Rank 15 Bonding Runestones won't cover the costs for "rebuilding" the stats on a single character.

    Trading 3 R15s equates to 7.8 million AD.

    Barely enough to buy 2 useful R15s. Especially once the general populace learns of the changes.
    What is considered to be useful R15 these days? Whatever it is, you can exchange to that one using the bonding runestone instead of getting AD.

    That has led us to change some aspects of companions and to retire Bonding Runestones all together. There will be an exchange at the Antiquities Dealer in Protector’s Enclave for Bonding Runestones which allows them to be exchanged for either another Enchantment/Runestone of the same rank, or directly for AD (The AD exchange chart will be at the bottom of this blog).
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
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