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They will reduce Halaster stats, HP and damage in TOMM

unbarbunbarb Member Posts: 28 Arc User
edited July 2020 in General Discussion (PC)
Now that the Tower of the Mad Mage is 1 year old, they will reduce Halaster stats, HP and damage in TOMM so more players can get their Lionheart Weapon set and rings to be ready for Zariel Challenge.
I think it is a good move because this trial felt overwhelming for new players and veterans since its release.
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Comments

  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    Don't really need to reduce the stats since you are Gaining more stats from all the new gear and weapons that continue to come out
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,406 Arc User
    No need to reduce it if your building your character! New gear is coming, new weapons are out that will help get there. For years we've had content that took no organization or training to figure it out. As mentioned above, this requires teamwork and training. I have many that I train with weekly and we still can't finish, but we WILL get there! And I've been doing tomm training 2 nights a week for months. Not for me, but for others.

    Many of my runs to get my Lionheart weapons were done with 4 people using old weapons. Training got us there. I still see groups with 9 with lionheart and cant' finish it.

    If you can get a group that will learn the mechanics, that group will finish. Even with weaker DPS, you'll finish. If your team doesn't learn the mechanics, gets to phase 4 with skulls(revive sickness), you won't have the juice to beat Halaster.

    A technique I use now is the mini map. When phase 3 starts and the platform is coming up I ALWAYS move to the right side of my minimap. Why? Because I'll be behind the boss when he spawns. I can get in position, wait my 3 seconds for my mad mage set buff to be up, by then the boss is becoming attackable. From the other side of the platform your where the tank should be, now you have to move, there goes your buff.

    Final phase, you need to be watching Halaster. He spawns, disappears, then spawns attackable. That first spawn gives you insight to the direction he'll be facing. Your group NEEDS to be in position, you dont' have much time. If everyone has to move into position once halaster is attackable, you've likely failed that DPS check.

    There are other techniques that come once the mechanics are learned, then tomm starts to get fun and you can put the wet wipes away and relax a bit.
  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    The mentality of "if i am not immediately good at something i am no longer interested" is unhealthy in all aspects of life.

    Make a progression group(a very common thing in mmos) and go at it, laugh at your friends when they die, have fun with it.
    Tomm is already not hard once you get an idea of the mechanics.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    I think it's a good idea. The vast majority of players in Neverwinter doesn't have the time or dedication to spend weeks for training. Neverwinter has always been a casual game and I guess they're trying to cater to the vast majority of the playerbase.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    hastati96 said:

    I don't think this is a good idea. If you make TOMM easier people won't be prepared for Zariel. They may have the weapons for it but thats maybe 10% of what is needed to beat Zariel. Full R15 + 500k HP on DPS, basically being best in slot, most players don't have these stats. People have to learn mechanics, show teamwork and do trainings. This will be skipped if you reduce Halaster's dmg output, HP etc.

    If you can't beat TOMM in its current state you will have no chance to beat Zariel, having Lionheart weapons or not.

    Btw there will be a story version of Zariel so everyone will be able to experience it, no need to run the currently released Zariel version.

    Will the story version drop the same rewards?
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 774 Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    its already way easier then when it launched, and it will become easier automatically with every new piece of gear released, there is really no need to nerf the trial itself.

    Hush! Devs might hear you! ...you forgot their beloved scaling...
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 774 Arc User
    nooneatza said:


    Make a progression group(a very common thing in mmos) and go at it, laugh at your friends when they die, have fun with it.

    Tomm is already not hard once you get an idea of the mechanics.

    I find the design appalling. That is why I did not try to run the trial even when my HR became a capable dps after the latest balance update. As you said, with a correct group a lot of issues can be alleviated and turned into fun, but the core design is a core design and it is just not for me.

    Don't take me wrong - I do not have any hard feelings to the devs or designers on this part. It is impossible to make something totally universal, to everybody tastes.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 684 Arc User
    > @nooneatza said:
    > The mentality of "if i am not immediately good at something i am no longer interested" is unhealthy in all aspects of life.
    >
    > Make a progression group(a very common thing in mmos) and go at it, laugh at your friends when they die, have fun with it.
    > Tomm is already not hard once you get an idea of the mechanics.



    The idea that only people that are new and/or have a lack of will/dedication don't/can't run tomm is a bit off.


    But I do think that time already makes everything easier (with our kind of vertical progression) so imo there is no need to reduce it.
    - bye bye -
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User

    End game content should never be catered to or designed with the average player in mind, nor should it be nerfed after release to make it more accessible, ever.

    If the average player cannot complete ToMM now or 5 mods from now then they should not be able to complete ToMM until they figure out how to or natural power creep over time reaches the tipping point and allows them to finish, simple as that.

    So TOMM should never be added to the Random Queue?
  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    > @wintersmoke said:
    > (Quote)
    > So TOMM should never be added to the Random Queue?

    Tomm is a piece of content that cant be completed on the first try without having people carrying, it wont be in random q anytime soon
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    unbarb said:

    Now that the Tower of the Mad Mage is 1 year old, they will reduce Halaster stats, HP and damage in TOMM so more players can get their Lionheart Weapon set and rings to be ready for Zariel Challenge.
    I think it is a good move because this trial felt overwhelming for new players and veterans since its release.

    Please modify your title with "I think that they should" because it sounds like you have top secret informations to spare with us, but we are just reading your opinions.

    BTW, lionheart got boosted damages, so it's almost as if TOMM was nerfed
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 684 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    Nope. They nerfed CoDG and ToNG and still people are too dumb to get the simple push-pull move. They nerfed mimics in Arcturia fight and still people can't kill them because they think it's wise idea to go there with 90k power. Yeah, let's make everything dumb easy for total braindeads not bothering with thinking, awesome game experience it will be. People are failing BASIC game mechanics like stacking on hypothermia in FBI, nerfing anything will NOT help them getting their brains back to work but it will totally ruin already ruined game. Just git gud bro. Gearing up is so easy in this game that you can be stats-ready for ToMM in no time after getting lvl80, then it's just learning mechanics that in ToMM are really easy once you put it all together. It's just so well telegraphed. I don't get this "I can't do this so nerf it to be easier" attitude. Work for stuff instead of waiting for them to be handed to you. Also, it is fun to learn mechanics in group of people you know, overcoming things and laughing when you wipe 7th time in a row at dps check and then you finally do it because you got that right. You want stuff done fast and easy? Queue low level dungeons.

    You sound very angry, are you okay?

    While I agree that Tomm doesn't need to be made easier (nor should've been Codg or Lomm) it seems like it is personally attacking not only you but several people in this thread that other people might have an easier experience than you did.

    Thats the whole game at the moment, thats the general direction. Easier accessable to new people, or to old people that did not do it yet. If this is so frustrating to you people, it will only get more frustrating in the future.

    Does the game dimnish endgame or achievements in general over time? Yes, it does. Thats not cool. But with Tomm it feels like you are losing your measure of "good" other players vs "bad" other players, when it gets easier for the other, less ready players. The only thing on my mind if that is the case - that you can't use tomm as a way to look down on "lazier" and less competitive people - then: Boohoo.
    - bye bye -
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 684 Arc User
    edited July 2020



    You sound very angry, are you okay?

    Lol so much XD Kindly don't put your measures over other people, the fact that someone has different opinion doesn't make them angry.
    You are doing the same :D But then its fine, I guess, I have tons of fun without people whining that others are too lazy dumb for this "content".
    - bye bye -
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User

    The hardest part of ToMM, is finding a group who is willing to accept tomm newbs. I spent two weeks looking for a training group, and only managed to get into 2. This is with having over 220k pwr and 355k hp. Also, the 2nd training group I got into, they kicked me out before the run started to invite a more "popular" player who they probably thought could carry them through. So yeah, I'm a little bitter with the community in the NW endgame scene.

    The biggest problem with ToMM, was that there just wasn't enough end gamers capable of actually completing it for the time it was released. This may be less true now, however, now, you have other problems, like lack of interest in the face of new content. Anyways, you can see now they are trying to reduce the cost to get to end game, but not really the amount of time it takes to grind to end game by saving AD. F2p players may be able to take advantage of one or two of the sales they are having, but mostly all these zen events are catered to p2w players, and whales looking for a get rich quick program (people riding on the backs of other f2p players, of which, I'm guilty of myself). People say "NW is not P2W, it's Pay to Progress Faster." However, progression leads to winning, and winning leads to further progression; so in other words, NW is P2W, you can try and change the words around, but a pig is still a pig, even while wearing makeup.

    In 99% of computer games, it's impossible to actually make challenging content in any way, other than by throwing bigger rocks at the players. It makes me laugh when people say things like "get gid bro", or "it just takes skill". You're facing a scripted computer bot who throws bigger rocks. Just like in early game small mobs are hard, and you have to learn their moves and when to dodge, nothing has changed with ToMM, just bigger rocks now, it's muscle memory, not skill. To beat tomm you 1st need a group, if you can get past that hurdle, you have a good chance of actually completing it after your group develops the muscle memory and has the requisite stats. The same is true for zariel. The only way to make a game challenging, is to improve the AI in such a way that an NPC can adapt to players and change it's strategies in unpredictable ways, but very few games actually do this, and this is exactly why I prefer pvp over pve any day.

    Doesn't change the fact that you need to dodge the rocks ;) Too many people doesn't dodge those rocks
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    unbarb said:

    Now that the Tower of the Mad Mage is 1 year old, they will reduce Halaster stats, HP and damage in TOMM so more players can get their Lionheart Weapon set and rings to be ready for Zariel Challenge.
    I think it is a good move because this trial felt overwhelming for new players and veterans since its release.

    what makes you think that ppl will be ready for Zariel if they nerf ToMM? If ToMM is easier to complete, ppl will have even less chances of beating Zariel.
  • finmakinfinmakin Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    unbarb said:

    Now that the Tower of the Mad Mage is 1 year old, they will reduce Halaster stats, HP and damage in TOMM so more players can get their Lionheart Weapon set and rings to be ready for Zariel Challenge.
    I think it is a good move because this trial felt overwhelming for new players and veterans since its release.

    I sense your reasoning, and I don't agree with it since players, mostly from same location were this kind of posts are appearing on forum lately (prolly like yourself) are looking for ways to get their hands on endgame items the easy way..

    I have a better solution for dev's.
    Leave ToMM in it's form as it is now and create a baby ToMM trial were playes can prepare themself for the normall ToMM.
    This include baby loot like no Legendary rings and no part's of weaponset (but with Void's) because it's my opinion you have to Earn the Lionheart weaponset.
    Ogguk Sanctus… Justicar Paladin
    Puny Tank

    Guildleader of NWLC Alpha
  • finmakinfinmakin Member Posts: 389 Arc User



    You sound very angry, are you okay?

    Lol so much XD Kindly don't put your measures over other people, the fact that someone has different opinion doesn't make them angry. I am not angry, I have tons of fun playing the game even at its current state and more, I have tons of fun seeing people failing easiest stuff and whining they should be nerfed.

    You are completely right here

    Ogguk Sanctus… Justicar Paladin
    Puny Tank

    Guildleader of NWLC Alpha
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