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Hell Pit Difficulty/Feedback (Chapter two)

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  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    @aslan3775 Do not buy buy-out at this point!
    The buy-out just adds number of victories to the total count, which means at this point its only effect is to prevent you from further participation. It does not give you currency, it just adds the number of victories
    - and you cannot run the event any more if you already have 21 victories total.

    edit: the contents of the buyout package have drastically changed
    Post edited by rikitaki on
  • micheal1979micheal1979 Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    Hmm I thought Multiple accounts wasn't allowed.
    We Are Crolm
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  • aslan3775aslan3775 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 215 Arc User
    Good point. I won't take a buy out at this point.

    I think I got lucky and figured out how to run it on my TR rather quickly. I'm glad i didn't try it on my wizard. I am a bad wizard--make me switch toons if you get me in a party ;)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,308 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    My feeling is that the difference in difficulty we see is related to some problems with fire damage that have been present in the game for quite a while. I play a 26k warden HR with no self heals and the boots reducing my heals by 25%, so what I see is not influenced by self heals popping up or not.
    Devils are quite easy, demons may be hard but normally that happens when Molten or Enflamed Zythars are present.
    If I kill them quickly or stun them with Crushing Roots I can easily manage demons too, using only potions and no Stones.
    If two or more Molten Zythars are present at the same time and I don't take care of them immediately they can burn over 50% of my HP in a few seconds (I have 405k HP before scaling, so this means they will kill most less-geared HRs outright).
    There are some other places where fire damage is out of the roof too (Son of Alagondar and Puppet firebombs come to mind). Both Son of Alagondar and Puppet seems to ignore defense quite often (the combat log line just shows damage and not pre-mitigated and mitigated damage). I didn't check if that happens for Molten Zythars too but something is definitily out-of-place with fire damage.

    Depends on the build, the fire damage is nothing for my character. Mine (a barbarian) has far less HP than yours. However, the range damage does very little to him. I can keep walking and let the fire hit me. About 3k damage per hit. That takes a long while to get my HP to 50%. I often left one range fire guy alive because it seems it takes a few seconds longer for the next batch to spawn.

    I also walk around the border so that I get less CA against me.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,881 Arc User

    Hmm I thought Multiple accounts wasn't allowed.

    Depends on how they are used or abused.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • krimbarbarrojakrimbarbarroja Member Posts: 125 Arc User

    Difficulty is absolutely all over the place and seems to change on undocumented stuff. Last sunday, it was about ok. Yesterday it was very easy. Today it is impossible. Please review your code, because there is no way this is working as intended.

    Different mob, different difficulties. Demon hard, devil easy. That is if you are lucky to get devil, it is easy. If you are not, challenging. That is kind of known since the first Hell pit. Same as what you faced in Vallenhas. Small HE with demon is harder than the small HE with devil.
    Yeah, I see, but the difficulty gap is absolutely abysmal (which is fitting, I guess). I am easily seeing demons hit for 3x hards as devils.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    First Day of Week Three

    Round 1 wasnt too hard, just used a couple of health stones, stood and fought with back against the wall for a while. Did some sprinting and bobbing and weaving. Doable.

    Round 2 - another story, too many trash mobs making it almost impossible to position your toon to attack the BOSS mob, clearing trash mobs spawns more trash mobs. I say trash mobs, they are quite lethal. Took three attempts to beat round 2. And even then I was down to like 5% HP at one point. MUCH harder than last time.

    MUCH harder than those FE boss mobs. Probably the hardest solo fight I have ever done in three years in Neverwinter.

    Did I feel elated after the fight?

    Not really, just relieved.

    For a newer player this may be impossible as its really about timing, player skill and knowing what to do when.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,881 Arc User
    I quit last week. Being frustrated by HAMSTER isn't a challenge.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    For week three, I pulled my top stones & enchantments off of my alts that I'm doing boons on and put them back onto my main. For me, this made week 3 the same difficulty as week 2. Week 3 is only 2 rounds (much faster). After Hellpit and RTQ, I didn't feel like spending 100 gold and 30 minutes porting gear back to an alt to play content... so I shut the game off for the day & did other stuff.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Well, dumping a boss right into the middle of the second round of the 3th week is just overkill, especially when you get demons. And i'm not sure, but wasn't the boss a solo fight before? I thought we had to summon it the last time, like the bonus round before, which was a good thing, since it gave at least some room for healing up properly again. It also feels like enemies spawn a whole lot faster and that there's only one booster per round.

    Not to mention that some fire/poison DoT effects can last from the end of round one into round two, which means you go damaged into fighting the next fresh batch of enemies.

    Anyway, a player that has reached 18k IL has no chance of playing this event through, aside from using Health Stones frequently, i also upgraded my epic Ioun Stone of Might to legendary, and refined my Bonding Runestones to Rank 11, and got another IL 1250 armor piece from a Juma Bag... 19k IL, closing in on 20k and it's still a [censored] [censored] [censored] fight to get through. :#

    @ any "content creators" or Devs playing through this event, i'd like to see you try it with a new 18k IL character...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    Why a 18k player need to finish this event .

    Second the difficulty is appropriate for so much goodies it gives, use whatever you have to finish it.

    Now for gear you can gear up fast only doing heroic in valehnas and juma baggs. Buy some blue comp gear 3 rank 9 bondings.

    Now this event is solo event is not easy is not ment to be cake walk so stop with this what new player will do why I can't with 18k il .
    Guild

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  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I quit last week. Being frustrated by HAMSTER isn't a challenge.

    Im deeply disappointed really that a toon who has progressed loads is weaker in the event, or the event has got stupidly tough.

    And yeah last time the Boss Mob was more of a solo fight I thought? Or at least trash mobs were easier to kill before the Boss appeared?

    One main problem is if you have two single target attacks and if you dont kill two ranged mobs with those [which happens to me frequently] you have a real chance of dying.

    A

    Why a 18k player need to finish this event .



    Second the difficulty is appropriate for so much goodies it gives, use whatever you have to finish it.



    Now for gear you can gear up fast only doing heroic in valehnas and juma baggs. Buy some blue comp gear 3 rank 9 bondings.



    Now this event is solo event is not easy is not ment to be cake walk so stop with this what new player will do why I can't with 18k il .

    [Also I am disappointed that the goodies; Orange insignia, ok thats great, but you can only get two for doing six days of misery and chugging health stones and pots]

    I get its end game content, but why are 26k iL toons struggling or removing enchants? Thats just stupid.

    I am just very deflated. I build up my toon, and find it harder. That makes no sense in an MMO and if it continues, players will quit.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    I don't know why so much hate for 10 min or now just like 5 min a day and can make millions . And let's say you waste like 100 stones are like what 60k and most have free anyway.

    If you are struggling when you are 26k go more defence crit avoidance cap this and don't let them flank you. Kill ranger adds first .


    But really this is the most fast event to do and get payed .

    Just play get you tokens and buy things .
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    16th day. Got demons. Finished, but it wasn't funny at all. Now, It looks like 3rd week is harder than 2nd. It wasn't like this before.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    1. Why shouldn't a 18k IL character be able to get through this event? Is your personal world going to collapse, because someone else might get a legendary mount in a year or so?

    2. The difficulty isn't even the same within this event.
    2.a. Get devils, and you have a good chance at finishing it with a lower IL character.
    2.b. Get demons, and you're up youknowwhatcreek without a paddle.
    2.c. or what's the point of scaling this event, when there're ways for players with high IL characters to bypass it?

    3. Getting fitting equipment from Juma's Surprise bags is up to RNGesus, and sometimes he just loves to drown you in chickens again and again, or may be you'll get some useless uncommon or rare companion on a good day. And yes, i have rows of chickens to proof that, any character bound pet should be flagged as unique, so that we'll only get one of those damn things. I just hope that when the pet bag is full with chickens, they stop dropping and don't spill over into my normal inventory too...

    4. I'm not asking for making the event a "cake walk", but i would like to see this event brought down from the frustrating to a challenging difficulty for many players.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    Week three day two.

    Demons are insane difficulty. For me anyway. Just not worth it, MASSIVE overkill.

    I left and came back until I got Devils to try that out. Easier, but really almost impossible. Round 1 not too bad.

    But Round 2? I have tried it a few times, thought about different tactics. Even tried around a few different companions. Simply too much stuff to kill in too small a space [for me]. You have to be able to take down three or four mobs at a time in seconds. Just dont have the killing power and staying alive power.

    Tried standing back to the wall, works for a bit. But then BOOM dead.

    Shield Powerup gets worn down in seconds.

    Health Power up isnt enough to keep you alive.

    Boots power up is good, but unless you take down ALL mobs they kill you with range attack.

    Skull atttack ... nearly worked... used it on Boss and took him down to 20% hp, launched a fuill assault on him but was killed instantly.

    The Boss Mob just hits way too hard, combined with the other mobs its insane.

    Frankly I more or less give up.

    I tried.



  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    Week three, day two, Part Two

    Ok so I sat and had a think.

    Decided to just drop my item level to just over 20k and entered the Hell Pit area.

    Played around with some old equipment [Makos' Signet! Ring of Molting!] and raised my Defence stats as best as I could with what I got.

    Boy what a change!

    Mobs seemed to die easier, spawn more slowly and hit less hard. Round 1 was fairly easy, easier than at 26.5k scaled down.

    I expected to get owned in Round 2, but again, mobs spawned more slowly, hit less hard and died easier. I managed to get down to a one on one fight with The Beast, which took maybe 5 minutes or so. But he went down without too much risk. Keep clear of the red splats, use the odd health stone or heal pot. And just took him down at my own pace.

    Seems to me that there are 2 factors here [would love to hear from an expert].

    Scaling takes your stats down BUT original item level scales the monsters up? Or seemed to me the respawn rate was MUCH higher with my original set up. Any thoughts on this?

    I am REALLY pleased to have beaten this Day Two of Week Three, but it still seems that it isnt WAI.

  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    Epilogue

    When I came out of Hell Pit my item level was just over 24k, so maybe there is a sweet spot somewhere?
  • volournvolourn Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    "Second the difficulty is appropriate for so much goodies it gives, use whatever you have to finish it."

    Most of what you can get from HP can be gotten a lot easier from elsewhere. The mount will take a year to get, and while the two legendary insignias ar enice. They're not worth the fight. I've been it every day so this isn't me whining about how it is 'impossible'. This shouldn't be scaled content. Punishing people for making their characters stronger is poor DMing. No way around it.
    Post edited by volourn on
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    Week three, day three

    Stripped down to under 20k iL and entered.

    Built up my defensive stats as best as I could and swapped around equipment and rings till it looked like I was at optimum defence.

    Entered the Hell Pit.

    Demons. Hmmmm. Not happy. Decided to give it a go.

    Round 1 used a couple of heath stones, got the shield, fought stuff, hit and run style. Weaved in and out off the mobs. Took down what I could when I could. Used shield at 25 seconds on the clock [to save some for Round 2]. Not too hard at all.

    Round 2 shield from round 1 helped, got the boots, used dailies and health stones, cleared all trash mobs and fought the boss mob one to one [do the trash mobs disappear on their own at zero time left? I didnt notice killing them]. Its a fairly tough fight, but certainly doable. Killed the boss mob off in a couple of minutes.

    Cashed in for an Orange Insignia of Dominance.

    Im happy with the outcome, but still annoyed at the scaling thang
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User
    Week three day four.

    I am no expert but tested something.

    Went in at item level 26.5k signed up for the fight, got my defensive stats to near cap where I could.

    Entered, demons, very very hard. Got to round 2 but it was just a slaughterhouse.

    Exited Hell Pit

    Re-enterd at item level 18.5k signed up for the fight.

    Raised stats and re-put on armour etc

    Entered, demons, hard but doable. Round 1 fairly easy. Round 2 tough but not that hard.

    TIP - enter almost naked ;)
  • melotai#0794 melotai Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    I do not think it matters. I have been using my TR for this at 23.5K IL with no changes and I have experienced the full range with my stone of health usage varying widely with each day in the pit from only 1 or 2 charges for the entire 5 or 6 rounds to 1 or 2 charges per round with the most charges used in a round for me being 4. There were only about 3 rounds total where I had to repeat the round one or more times just to complete it and one bonus round that was not completed because I died instantly at the beginning of the round for the second time during my hell pit runs.

    for the 5 and 6 round ones my tactics varied based upon the amount of damage i was taking vs. my healing. If I was taking a lot of damage early on I started fighting early just because I considered that to be a round where the running around tactic was simply not going to work.

    For the 2 round battles that we are doing now has been easy every time so far as my stone of health usage is about zero to 1 charges on the first round and about 1 or 2 charges on the second round.

    All runs were done with her legendary augment companion summoned.
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    When the best solution is to try circumvent a system, that just shows what a crappy and ill thought system it is. I'll be trying the "enter with less gear thing" on my next run. :)

    Seriously though, ditch scaling. Yes, it works in OTHER games sometimes. It doesn't work here, nor does it need to. This is D&D. Own it.
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Well, i unequipped some equipment to get the IL close to 18k on my 24k Fighter before entering the Hell Pit and signing the ledger, but i couldn't see any difference here...

    I got the Burnished weapon set on my 19k Fighter, which feels like a little improvement, but those two rounds with the boss in the middle are still tough, bright side, only a few more runs for 21 victories and i'm done with the event.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • dargon#3099 dargon Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I was able to fully complete the Hell Pit event the last time around (at its inception) with my CW - didn't have to change anything and didn't have any serious issues. This time around, with even better gear (I am 27k), I couldn't get past the 2nd week of running it. My strategy was fine before (I have been playing of a long time now), so clearly the event changed in terms of the difficulty and damage. Just gave up, which is indicative of my attitude towards this game in general and why I don't give them money anymore (years of VIP, with lots of lockboxes and keys, and still never got anything I needed - certainly no legendary mount). My defense and enchantments are fully geared for defense, and I use lots of stones, but unless every single round I can get the shield/regeneration buff then I'm going down and no amount of moving or teleporting seems to matter.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,308 Arc User

    This time around, with even better gear (I am 27k), I couldn't get past the 2nd week of running it.

    That is probably the reason. The higher item level you get, the harder it is.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    The fact that this post exists, to me, is proof that the event is almost properly balanced. Rewards are great, time put in is not excessive. This event is a challenge, not a handout, ... and not a token of player existence appreciation. If the demons/devils get balanced just a bit then this event doesn't need much tweaking, except to keep up with future game changes.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    There are only two explanations for the design of this event: the designers are completely incompetent, don't play the game and can't do math, or, it's meant to frustrate you into paying for the buyout.
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    Well, why would anyone go for the event buyout option, when you have to pay 5 times in total to get enough tokens for the mount? Especially now, when prices for account wide legendary mounts are on their way towards less then 5m AD per mount... i think, i've even seen the triple choice pack around 15m AD during this weekend.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,462 Arc User

    The fact that this post exists, to me, is proof that the event is almost properly balanced. Rewards are great, time put in is not excessive. This event is a challenge, not a handout, ... and not a token of player existence appreciation. If the demons/devils get balanced just a bit then this event doesn't need much tweaking, except to keep up with future game changes.

    I think its completely unbalance amigo.

    If a 27k CW could run it last time, and now cant get past week 2 then its forked.

    I ran it last time at 24k il and it was tough but doable, now at nearly 27k some rounds are just stupidly tough.

    So I drop il down to abotu 24/25k and its MUCH easier... SOMETIMES.
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