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  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    Every change is allways intepreted as a nerf, because people struggle adapting to anything.

    The change to healing may change the way the content is played, and the incoming healing nerf is related to that change. If you want to change how healing works in the whole picture, you must touch every source involved.

    To judge the change you need to judge the group gameplay in every content and level, and not individual things. And that requires time, run dungeons and trials, adapting to new powers / changes, etc.

    Try it and give feedback, some things will need to be changed for sure, but stop that mimimimimimi attitude with every change.

    I agree with you. I doubt that the people that are raging in this thread haven even tested the healing changes.

    Best example are the healing At-Wills. They have been increased to 500 magnitude (up from 50, at least for paladins and cleric) which is a 10x increase. The nerf to incoming / outgoing heal is not by the factor 10, maximum by the factor 1 (40 - 50% outgoing and 50-65% incoming heal and now only ~1/3 of these values). Furthermore the magnitude of some healing spells has doubled and the others have been buffed by atleast 100 - 300 magnitude. It definetly is not a nerf in any way but most people just see the bad sides as always.

    The new Tab mechanic has 1500 magnitude heal on paladin and even more on cleric.

    In my opinion this is not a nerf. It rather feels like a solid buff to healing.
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • xander#0631 xander Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    there is also the psicological idea (at least in my case) i spent millions of ad (and al lot of hours) to upgrade mi companions and enchantments, to boost my incoming/outgoing healing and now it got reduced, this is source of concer.

    but from what i saw on preview (little, i was alone, how the hell can a healer test something by being alone :) ), it's not that bad : intercession seem useless now, bastion of health heal by 2,2k magnitude, the tab nechanics heal for 3k magnitude.. evend the at will heal for 500 magnitude for a cost of 30 divinity (regained in 1 sec) in my case this 500 magnitude can heal for ~120k hp (14% outgoing healing, 126k power, 180k crit), not bad, usefull expecially on dps that are away from tank.
    my real concern is that we have lost our aoe heals, bastion loose magnitude when used on party, but with a feat we can heal for 1k magnitude ppl near the tank.
    second concern, we don't give shield like op, will that still make us less called by end game party? dunno
    even the warlock got an at-will that give a shield (for 450 magnitude) dunno if it stack or not, if it will be usefull or not, but i'm very curious about this change; surely we will need to re-learn the divinity management
    reality is what most recognize as true
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    I'm checking it out and I've found some typos:

    - When you rescue a cleric at Haruman's hill, one might say, "My faith had waivered." It should be spelled "wavered".

    - In the initial kickoff quest dialogue with Alric, he says that we need to be "discrete". The correct word is "discreet".

    - The Canian iron bars tooltip has "Zariel in the The Fallen".

    BUG: You can walk under the platform at 3335, 1371. You can also go under a hill at 3584, 2262.
    Post edited by hustin1 on
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  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    I think the Savage Warlords are doing excessive damage. This isn't even a critical hit.

    [Combat (Self)] Savage Warlord deals 114016 (183247) Physical Damage to you with Cleave.
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  • evemjevemj Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    Is it intended to have enemies on the map that aren't in HE/BHEs with the silver health bars and, presumably, higher stats?
  • rapidstar#3272 rapidstar Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    I think these new weapon sets are gonna make ToMM/TIC a lot easier so even though there isnt a new dungeon/trial for "casual" players (around 21-24k IL) we should now be able to play TIC/ToMM and basically have something new.

    And about the healing.....the changes were huge and no one really knows the effect its gonna have. We should test the stuff first before we start complaining.
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Lol not even sure whether its worth sharing feedbacks at this point but anyways regarding wizards;

    1. Storm spell now procs properly. Issue is that you guys literally replaced it with its previous formula and now has a 100% crit chance when over 95k crit.
    2. Been begging since mod16 to add some range to arcanist's aoe, its really lacking in range when it comes to aoe and this makes no sense for a wizard.
    3. The changes to thaumaturge, more specificly Chilling advantage, is a complete joke considering rimefire smolder adds little to no damage on thaum anymore. I see 2 viable options to this paragon, overhaul it to be a complete debuff paragon as it already have potential or revamp rimefire smolder damage cause it currently covers 1-2% of my overall damage in dungeons. Rimefire smolder is supposed to be the primary mechanic of a thaumaturge, hence everything on that paragon is revolved around applying smolder + chill.
    4. Regarding the cut to incoming and outgoing healing, you should address all incoming and outgoing healing sources in the game, including the rusted iron leggings boots. You cant cut those numbers by 50% and expect ppl to run around with a boot that gives -25% incoming. Reduce that by 50% too.
    Post edited by lardeson on
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    I am the only one who doesn t see those changes as nerfs? I will let you know guys that me and my friends tried today new Zariel trial and for sure you will need both kind of heals paladin and warlock/cleric to be able to survive. due the fact that you now are not able to restore divinity using tab, you will need to have a better divinity control. If they changed the healing formula doesn t mean this is a nerf, because you still. It is like having 200k damage on a 400k hp mob, with now has 200k hp but you deal only 100k damage. Outgoing healing went from 50% to 25% so everything can be more in line with each other statuses that are not exceeds 50%. So keep that in mind. Regarding other things many of them are subject to change like the new Zariel weapon set bonus. Let s wait for the patch notes and see what was their original intention with this change and other things they did. I am not agaist changes like this as long as the changes will keep the effectiveness. I also did a 3 man first boss IC to help a friend figure out if his heals are still good (cleric) He keept me well until we defeated it and keep in mind that we had only one dps with me as a tank. It took us a bit longer but no one died.
  • drdark1217#6244 drdark1217 Member Posts: 6 Arc User

    I am the only one who doesn t see those changes as nerfs? I will let you know guys that me and my friends tried today new Zariel trial and for sure you will need both kind of heals paladin and warlock/cleric to be able to survive.

    you just said it -- Pally +1 healer that was the whole problem to begin with

    it needs to be any combo of the 3

  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    Devs, you should let us talk to that powrie walking around the emporium and have someone do some voice-over. How she got from the Feywild to Avernus has *got* to be an interesting story!
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 240 Arc User

    I am the only one who doesn t see those changes as nerfs? I will let you know guys that me and my friends tried today new Zariel trial and for sure you will need both kind of heals paladin and warlock/cleric to be able to survive. due the fact that you now are not able to restore divinity using tab, you will need to have a better divinity control. If they changed the healing formula doesn t mean this is a nerf, because you still. It is like having 200k damage on a 400k hp mob, with now has 200k hp but you deal only 100k damage. Outgoing healing went from 50% to 25% so everything can be more in line with each other statuses that are not exceeds 50%. So keep that in mind. Regarding other things many of them are subject to change like the new Zariel weapon set bonus. Let s wait for the patch notes and see what was their original intention with this change and other things they did. I am not agaist changes like this as long as the changes will keep the effectiveness. I also did a 3 man first boss IC to help a friend figure out if his heals are still good (cleric) He keept me well until we defeated it and keep in mind that we had only one dps with me as a tank. It took us a bit longer but no one died.

    If I use Bastion of Health now, M18, to heal all my allies, who stand close to each other like good players usually do, in a 5 player dungeon like IC, all of them will be healed for 750 magnitude. That will cost 100 divinity.

    If I use Bastion of Health on preview, M19, to heal all my allies in a 5 player dungeon like IC, all of them will be healed for 440 magnitude. That will cost 200 divinity.

    We can discuss as much as you want about how "fair" or "better" or "easy" or "boring" or "needed" the new healing system is, but there is absolutely no doubt that the healing was nerfed hard, at least for Clerics.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,128 Arc User

    I am the only one who doesn t see those changes as nerfs? I will let you know guys that me and my friends tried today new Zariel trial and for sure you will need both kind of heals paladin and warlock/cleric to be able to survive. due the fact that you now are not able to restore divinity using tab, you will need to have a better divinity control. If they changed the healing formula doesn t mean this is a nerf, because you still. It is like having 200k damage on a 400k hp mob, with now has 200k hp but you deal only 100k damage. Outgoing healing went from 50% to 25% so everything can be more in line with each other statuses that are not exceeds 50%. So keep that in mind. Regarding other things many of them are subject to change like the new Zariel weapon set bonus. Let s wait for the patch notes and see what was their original intention with this change and other things they did. I am not agaist changes like this as long as the changes will keep the effectiveness. I also did a 3 man first boss IC to help a friend figure out if his heals are still good (cleric) He keept me well until we defeated it and keep in mind that we had only one dps with me as a tank. It took us a bit longer but no one died.

    If I use Bastion of Health now, M18, to heal all my allies, who stand close to each other like good players usually do, in a 5 player dungeon like IC, all of them will be healed for 750 magnitude. That will cost 100 divinity.

    If I use Bastion of Health on preview, M19, to heal all my allies in a 5 player dungeon like IC, all of them will be healed for 440 magnitude. That will cost 200 divinity.

    We can discuss as much as you want about how "fair" or "better" or "easy" or "boring" or "needed" the new healing system is, but there is absolutely no doubt that the healing was nerfed hard, at least for Clerics.
    If you use the at will healing in mod 18 and you use the at will in mod 19 there is no doubt that there is a HUGE BUFF to healing.
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  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    I won't say anything about the actual new mechanics of healing yet, as I haven't had enough time with them to have a grasp yet, but I will say the exact same thing I said in M16 preview. You absolutely CANNOT give one (or now two) classes in a role a special unique power that the other classes for that role cannot do.

    It's like having three roles that can be a tank, but only one actually gets a shield to mitigate damage. The other two die a lot because they don't have one, so they're SoL and no one wants to take them. It's plain stupid, and you wouldn't do that, right? Already Paladin is the only healing wanted because of the overshield. It prevents one-shot deaths that SW and DC simply cannot. I can't heal them unless they live through the hit. People have to build in an extra 25-50k HP to survive undodgeable damage that a Pallyheal can just prevent with overshield. People aren't going to rebuild their character to run with a cleric, as we have seen since M17 especially. They're just going to skip the cleric/sw and run with the Pallyheal.

    It's already insanely imbalanced, and now you're adding the overshield to SW, BUT NOT TO CLERIC. You're tipping the imbalance and not fixing it. All three heals need to have it or none. ALL CLASSES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE EQUALLY CAPABLE OF FULFILLING A ROLE. That's what you said when you remade everything in M16. This overshield business is making that uttterly untrue, which I would like to say was pointed out as far back as M16 beta. We called it then. The overshield makes the other two classes useless we said, and we were right.

    I get that you want the different classes to have flavor. Honestly, you've taken so much out of the game at this point that they need flavor, but you're making that flavor into need-to-have mechanics, and that's not fun because that means that the classes who don't have it aren't needed. Making it so that only one or two options are viable to "add flavor" is not fun. It's not fun for me as a cleric getting left out. It's not fun for SW getting left out, which you're fixing hopefully with these changes. And honestly, it's not fun for everyone who had to roll a Pallyheal to get into content to not be left out.
    Post edited by kythelion#3210 on
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 412 Arc User

    so... tacs got nerfed by > 50%. r11's dropped from 3.7% to 1.2%. not cool.

    This is the second time they've nerfed tactical enchants. WTH? I guess I'm not spending any resources on those now....

  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 412 Arc User

    Wow a mythic mount..gj guys,Foss must be proud of you

    Explains the seemingly awesome deal on legendary mounts in late feb early march...
  • nova#2306 nova Member Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    With the changes to Chilling Advantage,
    is this working as intended now with Smolder's damage being buffed?
    Is this working as intended to allow 1 Thaum Wiz to stack Smolder/Rimefire himself ... practically infinitely ?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=FVGJvJ-5Iws

    3 Solo Stacks of Smolder
    2 Solo Stacks of Rimefire

    After further testing I am able to get 7 stacks of Smolder with 5 stacks of Rimefire.
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  • kir4me8604#8436 kir4me8604 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    Just saw some of the Mod 19 Preview changes via Youtube

    Awesome work on the insigina revamp (Thank you)
    - I am looking forward to refining those random insiginas you receive while running dungeons in a more meaningful way. This change will make it easier to outfit multiple toons. Love it.

    The Additions to the Trade Bar Store are awesome.
    - High Level Enchantments for Trade Bars. Love it. Opening a lockbox for trade bars just got interesting.
  • nevernixnevernix Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    Is there any list of changes … ?

    Nix*
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,343 Arc User
    evemj said:

    Is it intended to have enemies on the map that aren't in HE/BHEs with the silver health bars and, presumably, higher stats?

    Yes this is intended, you must have missed the part where the map area changed to "area X - Elite"
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 512 Arc User

    Just saw some of the Mod 19 Preview changes via Youtube

    Awesome work on the insigina revamp (Thank you)
    - I am looking forward to refining those random insiginas you receive while running dungeons in a more meaningful way. This change will make it easier to outfit multiple toons. Love it.

    The Additions to the Trade Bar Store are awesome.
    - High Level Enchantments for Trade Bars. Love it. Opening a lockbox for trade bars just got interesting.

    The changes regarding the insignias are really positive, but do you really think the change in the tradebar store is positive? The market revolves almost entirely around enchantments. The only zone revisited by the majority is Dread Ring, one of the most loved events by players is Double Stone, have you ever thought that this will end? Have you ever thought that everything related to enchants would devalue even more, including most items that come in the lockbox?

    Players who don't look at the game's economy don't understand how the game really works.
  • kranky#1106 kranky Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    hastati96 said:

    ph33rm3 said:

    Chris said "No more nerfs". Well. We can see what his word is worth. *shakes head*

    Tbh I see no nerfs. Imo healing got a nice buff. We have high base heals with small multiplicators so new players are able to heal decently.

    What excactly do you mean? At least explain it if you say something like this.
    tbh anyone who thinks dropping a healer from 61.5% outgoing healing while at the same time lowering incoming healing on tanks by 35-40% is not a nerf is just well a complete and utter HAMSTER!!!!

    add to that fact that now healers cannot pray to recharge divinity (relying on natural regen) and the lack of any useful items to compensate (Like div recharge reinforcements / outgoing heal enchantments) all because of huge magnitude increases (mainly to help make it easier for lazy or weaker players to have the big numbers on heals) is just stupid.

    newer players are weaker for a reason they are NEW they haven't spent 100's of hours grinding/ millions of AD / 1000's of zen to build up and work out the class. to give them an easy pass free ride is an insult. and remember even if its 1000 magnitude or 5000 it still cost same divinity for 1 use and when divinity gone you are just sol. so who cares about magnitude increase? no one because being able to do 10x 600 mag heals will keep ppl alive better and longer then 4 or 5 1500 mag heals especially in content where there is consistent dmg (worm in lomm).

    add to that the pay to win aspect they are adding in M19 and this game is going to have severe drop off of players ( spend money open lock boxes / save up trade bars and just by r15 bonding or enchants whenever you need them) Never Winter is on the path to ensure that ppl willing to spend money will always be ahead of everyone else.

    this is my opinion true.. but dont tell me whats going on with healer is not a nerf i wasted 6 months and millions of AD to have strong healer just to be slapped in the face and treated i am a POS.
  • originalsin#4257 originalsin Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Sooth is uncomfortable to use and the animation needs to be reworked if they’re expecting it to be a staple. Raising your arm 20 degrees isn’t dynamic animation...
    Post edited by originalsin#4257 on
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    There are enough real, established complaints to discuss without people going off about changes that they are just trying for the first time.

    We can at least give it the weekend of playtesting and compare our observations to the eventual patch notes before we go nuts. It's not as if we need to forever hold our peace if we fail to complain loudly within hours of launch. Plenty of time to offer more constructive and well considered criticism later. What Cryptic does or doesn't do with it...that's another matter, but we can do our part.
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  • j3fferson#2732 j3fferson Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    The lack of a divinity regeneration mechanic was a really really bad decision. Increasing the divinity cost of the skills and removing the way to regain it just doesn't make sense. I'm talking about the DC, i don't know about the OP.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Okay, I've played around with the new divinity regeneration mechanic, or more to the point the lack thereof, and honestly, you should just slap a recharge timer on the powers and delete divinity if this is where you're going. Because that's exactly what it is. Cast X power, wait Y seconds for divinity to recharge enough to cast it again.

    The whole "resource mechanic" was created in M16 to have an ebb and flow to make resource management part of the role. If I cast this power now, I have time to regenerate enough divinity during the spin to cast this power when I need to, so I can use Divine Glow to regenerate it again to be ready for when the Hellfire Engine does chains on the tank and I'll need to throw Bastion three times really quick. Then I can regenerate divinity while we're waiting for the bombs...

    This change is effectively ending that. Now it's just wait until everyone is almost dead, hit heal, hope my timer counts down fast enough I can cast it again before everyone dies. If that is the point, as it certainly looks to be, then seriously, just put it on recharge and let's move on from divinity/sparks entirely.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,343 Arc User
    I was able to sustain my divinity just fine (on cleric). I went out to the elite area and just healed myself up to get the hang of some of the mechanics...I gotta say I am not finding this problem that others have stated with divinity regen. I was able to single target heal myself just fine, can likely go forever. AoEs do take a drain, but unless the group is bad, it shouldn't be too much a of a hassle except perhaps with the second boss of LoMM, but even then you don't need to spam AoE heal, just space out the heals so you aren't over healing.

    I think dps players need to learn how to avoid taking damage better so they don't become a drain on healers.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    arazith07 said:

    I was able to sustain my divinity just fine (on cleric). I went out to the elite area and just healed myself up to get the hang of some of the mechanics...I gotta say I am not finding this problem that others have stated with divinity regen. I was able to single target heal myself just fine, can likely go forever. AoEs do take a drain, but unless the group is bad, it shouldn't be too much a of a hassle except perhaps with the second boss of LoMM, but even then you don't need to spam AoE heal, just space out the heals so you aren't over healing.

    I think dps players need to learn how to avoid taking damage better so they don't become a drain on healers.

    I didn't find it impossible to handle solo, but yes the AoE aspect hurt. Sustained damage is going to be a bear. It's not impossible. I learned how to manage my divinity efficieently when they created it, and I can unlearn that just as easily. But, my biggest problem with this change as it stands right now is that divinity doesn't really have a point anymore. It's basically become a recharge timer. Power costs X, time to recharge that is Y. If that's all the divinity bar is going to be moving forward is a recharge timer, I'd like it off my screen because there is literally no point to it all. They can just put my powers on cooldown llike everyone else's.
  • claudiodnclaudiodn Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Will there be any change in Rogue/WhisperKnife?
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