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  • d3monicekoolaidd3monicekoolaid Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Can we get patch notes please?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    Can we get patch notes please?

    Patch notes should be up on Tuesday when they get back from holiday.
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    I was able to sustain my divinity just fine (on cleric). I went out to the elite area and just healed myself up to get the hang of some of the mechanics...I gotta say I am not finding this problem that others have stated with divinity regen. I was able to single target heal myself just fine, can likely go forever. AoEs do take a drain, but unless the group is bad, it shouldn't be too much a of a hassle except perhaps with the second boss of LoMM, but even then you don't need to spam AoE heal, just space out the heals so you aren't over healing.

    I think dps players need to learn how to avoid taking damage better so they don't become a drain on healers.

    Managing divinity soloing is easy. Bastion will heal you for 2200 magnitude.

    However, I tried to do IC yesterday with a group of friends, and it was quite bad. Bastion will heal for just 440 when used on 5 players (down from 750). Coupled with the huge outgoing heling nerf (my 50% was reduced to 20%), Cleric apparently lost what made it unique: we could refill party HP fast. I need to do more testing, but it seems bad. OP has shields. SW has buffs, and shields too on M19. What do Clerics have if their main "ability" was taken away?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    I was able to sustain my divinity just fine (on cleric). I went out to the elite area and just healed myself up to get the hang of some of the mechanics...I gotta say I am not finding this problem that others have stated with divinity regen. I was able to single target heal myself just fine, can likely go forever. AoEs do take a drain, but unless the group is bad, it shouldn't be too much a of a hassle except perhaps with the second boss of LoMM, but even then you don't need to spam AoE heal, just space out the heals so you aren't over healing.

    I think dps players need to learn how to avoid taking damage better so they don't become a drain on healers.

    Managing divinity soloing is easy. Bastion will heal you for 2200 magnitude.

    However, I tried to do IC yesterday with a group of friends, and it was quite bad. Bastion will heal for just 440 when used on 5 players (down from 750). Coupled with the huge outgoing heling nerf (my 50% was reduced to 20%), Cleric apparently lost what made it unique: we could refill party HP fast. I need to do more testing, but it seems bad. OP has shields. SW has buffs, and shields too on M19. What do Clerics have if their main "ability" was taken away?
    I wouldn't really be using BoH much anymore. Soothe and Tab should be enough. DPS should avoid damage as much as they can so you don't have to change targets a whole lot. Use Divine glow and exaltation to further buff your heals, you can also take a feat that can turn your tab into an AoE for higher magnitude than BoH
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    arazith07 said:

    I was able to sustain my divinity just fine (on cleric). I went out to the elite area and just healed myself up to get the hang of some of the mechanics...I gotta say I am not finding this problem that others have stated with divinity regen. I was able to single target heal myself just fine, can likely go forever. AoEs do take a drain, but unless the group is bad, it shouldn't be too much a of a hassle except perhaps with the second boss of LoMM, but even then you don't need to spam AoE heal, just space out the heals so you aren't over healing.

    I think dps players need to learn how to avoid taking damage better so they don't become a drain on healers.

    Managing divinity soloing is easy. Bastion will heal you for 2200 magnitude.

    However, I tried to do IC yesterday with a group of friends, and it was quite bad. Bastion will heal for just 440 when used on 5 players (down from 750). Coupled with the huge outgoing heling nerf (my 50% was reduced to 20%), Cleric apparently lost what made it unique: we could refill party HP fast. I need to do more testing, but it seems bad. OP has shields. SW has buffs, and shields too on M19. What do Clerics have if their main "ability" was taken away?
    I wouldn't really be using BoH much anymore. Soothe and Tab should be enough. DPS should avoid damage as much as they can so you don't have to change targets a whole lot. Use Divine glow and exaltation to further buff your heals, you can also take a feat that can turn your tab into an AoE for higher magnitude than BoH
    Yes, I understand the new paradigm for healing, focusing on single target and such. I'll just need time to get used to it. However, my main point is: Cleric, as all 3 healers, had something unique to it, and that was the big AoE heals. What uniqueness it has now? It seems strictly inferior to OP, who can offer nice shields, and SW, who can offer buffs (and also shields in M19 apparently? Can someone confirm this?). Both of them have big single target heals too.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    lardeson said:

    You guys need to calm down abit. This has barely been on preview for 2 days and everything is still subject to change. I know its frustrating to invest in stuff and get them nerfed constantly but instead of fuming here on the forums, i find it better to actually test everything out and provide some constructive feedback as to what you think they should address or not. But insulting and hating certainly wont fix things.

    Yeah, I've said my piece on this. I could have guessed as much, but judging from the responses, some players aren't interested in the process; they want to be angry and want to bait others into being angry with them.

    I think that the dev and communication teams bear some responsibility for the less-than-stellar state of community relations we see here, only in the sense that past lack of transparency and occasional long silences regarding issues of importance to the players have exacerbated tensions.

    However, there is no excuse at all for some of the garbage we're seeing in this thread, which I won't quote or repeat. Time to move on. Hopefully we'll have patch notes on Monday along with known issues so that we can get a better idea of what's working as intended.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • fabricjumperfabricjumper Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    I have previously posted a forum post on why and how sentinel is corrupt. And your staff removed it.
    With that naturally I had no hope that you were listening to us and the game could improve.

    What a comeback with Barbarian Sentinel!

    As you can see, our ideas can change if you fix the mistakes.
    I applaud your change with "Rage and Rally ".(Paragon Feat)
    This is the barbarian spirit. I did not have the opportunity to test in the group. I hope that "threat" mechanics is working properly. And I hope you won't undo your change! "Mighty Vitality" class feature is working again. This is nice too. I don't know who did it, but the magnitude increase of "bloodletter" in "sentinel" and "blade master" is very positive. This was necessary for us to provide threat. You should reward whoever thinks about it within your team. He really played the game and saw the vulnerabilities. I especially thank him.

    I also see improvements in sentinel's and challenger's slash animations. Especially SS. The man who did this is blessed.

    When we complained, the players who played other classes thought we were uncomfortable because we were "nerfed". No, as a gwf player since the beginning of the game, I don't care about being top dps. Game developers left us between being tanks or dps. And in mod 18 we did not perform well with any role, unless we drink loads of potions(steroids) to increase our power, or beg other dps to not steal our agro when tanking. With the new feat, we will be able to focus on doing damage instead of guard. So i believe it is going to help with agro .


    I also found the healing mechanics in the paladin positive. I think healing will be more enjoyable now.

    *When i hover my mouse over "tab-battlerage" icon it says " Right click to choose new power" at bottom. which is not possible of course.

    *It would be great if indomitable battle strike hit more than one enemy as before. maybe you should reduce the damage. Or if it hits more than one opponent, the damage should be reduced.

    *Don't you think about making some adjustments on "Battle Fury"? Because it is a fun skill but it does not offer any advantage that would require it to be used right now. For example, if some stamina is renewed as before? It may not be renewed in Sentinel, but at least in blademaster?

    * Skills such as "hidden blades" "roar" "axestorm" are not compatible with other skills. Because the damage or functionality contribution they provide when we calculate is lower. This can be corrected even by just playing with the numbers.


    *Actually, I think "blademaster" feat is totally bad. Why is that? Because "blademaster" is the path of the damage dealer. and a person calculating the feats there will see that "only one way" makes sense.
  • demarw2#2749 demarw2 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Are there any changes on dps classes? I can remember, that SW and GF dps should get huge changes with mod 19. Noworries announced that in a discussion thread a few months ago.
  • bratleyraybratleyray Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    As a console cleric player, one thing I've read worries me. That is, that the best DC heals are all single target. On PC, this wont be an issue as they can hot key players or point and click to heal. However on console we dont have these options. We are required to place our reticle on the player to heal them. When everyone is grouped up tight, it will be nearly impossible to heal the right person. Our aoe heals were the one thing that set the cleric apart from other healers. If we dont get a shield, we need really good aoe heals with strong, rapid h.o.t. healing to compensate for the lack of shield.




    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • necromanceheronecromancehero Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Good SW changes
    Finally, they listened to the requests of the players
    True, I have not yet verified the survival of soul pupple
    Nice work!
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 926 Arc User
    The scissors are spreading way too much.

    The changes to healing emphasize the difference between the skill of the players.
    The jump in weapon damage highlights the difference of having or not having the highest dmg weapon.
    The increase in stat ceiling further pushes non-augment companion away. (Seriously, you obviously do not want people to use active companions, so why don't you make everything augment? It is tiresome to explain that yes, we have dazilion of companions at our disposal, but no, you would be fool to summon most of them.)
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Maybe I can hide from the family and have some real uninterrupted time to play today.

    Just logged in and browsed the gear in collections, I'm not impressed, almost all the buffs and bonuses were basically copy pasta of what we already have, or is just another thing with more X maybe acquired a little differently, and this is a problem because

    A ) With the gutting of class design across the board, gear is the only option left to add interesting features to builds, and if all we have is more power and more dmg bonus gear and everything else is useless, well, it's easy to see how uninteresting that is. So baring a complete rework of class design and mechanics the devs need to start pumping more creative juices into gear bonuses and sets.

    B ) There's no real incentive to do the new content except to unlock the new trial.

    One thing I really want is more ways to reduce CD's. I want recovery back for encounter powers. I understand the whole, "but they're 'encounter' powers" argument, but this is a live action video game, and perhaps changing the name to "Abilities" is enough to convince you that it's ok to bring back shorter CD's.

    Here's an idea for a new enchantment (for gear, like radiants, azure, etc) that doesn't have the removed recovery stat, but would have a similar effect, "Reduce CD on your powers by X%, Decrease your outgoing damage by Y%". Has a pro/con X >= Y. It creates a choice when building a character, "do I do more damage when I use my Abilities faster, with a little less damage, or do I do more damage when I use my Abilities less frequently, but with more power?" (You could even have an enchantment with the opposite effect). And that's something we have to think about and affects the way we play the game. It can also help with CC abilities, maybe at the cost of damage, think about a Wizard being able to cast Steal Time more frequently, or being able to apply chill a little faster.

    There's plenty of ways to add more demensionality to the game, CD rate effects is one, and I'm sure there are more that can be invented. As long as it's easy to cap all offensive/defensive stats for dps/tanks respectively, counter stats add 0 demensionality to the game. Damage types, like fire, ice, necro, blunt, slashing, piercing, etc is another option, I think that sort of stuff is already in the game too, but isn't used in damage calculations.

  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    lardeson said:

    You guys need to calm down abit. This has barely been on preview for 2 days and everything is still subject to change. I know its frustrating to invest in stuff and get them nerfed constantly but instead of fuming here on the forums, i find it better to actually test everything out and provide some constructive feedback as to what you think they should address or not. But insulting and hating certainly wont fix things.

    let's be honest. feedback, constructive or otherwise, almost never fixes things. dev's gonna dev, HAMSTER the players, amirite?
    I am aware of that. Even the recent Rage of bel launch was full of bugs that were reported on preview. But asking for their heads is not going to help either. Also please do not forget they have been mainly working from home and still trying to deliver content.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    arazith07 said:



    DPS should avoid damage as much as they can so you don't have to change targets a whole lot.

    I have a question about this. If the "new paradigm" of healing is going to be don't take damage because I can't heal all of you, then what's the point of a heal role? Already everything except ToMM (to my knowledge) can be run without a healer anyway if you know how to avoid mechanics properly. Health stones and insignia bonuses can already fill a healer's role on a good team. I'm already only necessary on a team that's less than good players, or one that just wants to cover oh HAMSTER moments. People take healers to make a dungeon easier so they don't have to be quite as careful and one stray hit won't mean death. Mostly pally heals obviously because smurf bar, but other heals if they have to. So if now the design of healing is going to be don't take damage anyway, what is the purpose of having a heal role at all?
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    lardeson said:

    You guys need to calm down abit. This has barely been on preview for 2 days and everything is still subject to change. I know its frustrating to invest in stuff and get them nerfed constantly but instead of fuming here on the forums, i find it better to actually test everything out and provide some constructive feedback as to what you think they should address or not. But insulting and hating certainly wont fix things.

    They had Private preview and if RoB is anything to go by they ignore public preview FEEDBACK ! they ignored the bug reports and send it live as is since their private previewers assured them all was fine


    EDIT: Also it seems the CDP of allowing 2 versions of dungeons and trials have been thrown out. we are now getting a BIS only trial/dungeon and for the rest there will be an event from time to time .. give them scraps it is all they are worth after all i guess. NOT smart
    Post edited by mynaam on
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • liadan1984#8734 liadan1984 Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    > @arazith07 said:
    > (Quote)
    > I wouldn't really be using BoH much anymore. Soothe and Tab should be enough. DPS should avoid damage as much as they can so you don't have to change targets a whole lot. Use Divine glow and exaltation to further buff your heals, you can also take a feat that can turn your tab into an AoE for higher magnitude than BoH

    Do we know the radius of this AoE yet?
    It reduces the tab heal to 1000 magnitude.
    Lia
    Co-Guild Leader
    Ghost Templars L20
    Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
    Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
    Alt: Warlock
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    lardeson said:

    You guys need to calm down abit. This has barely been on preview for 2 days and everything is still subject to change. I know its frustrating to invest in stuff and get them nerfed constantly but instead of fuming here on the forums, i find it better to actually test everything out and provide some constructive feedback as to what you think they should address or not. But insulting and hating certainly wont fix things.

    They had Private preview and if RoB is anything to go by they ignore public preview FEEDBACK ! they ignored the bug reports and send it live as is since their private previewers assured them all was fine
    Another nonsense from the feverish mind of a pathological liar.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    mynaam said:


    They had Private preview and if RoB is anything to go by they ignore public preview FEEDBACK ! they ignored the bug reports and send it live as is since their private previewers assured them all was fine

    Rage of Bel was never on Owlbear, so none of the beta testers could, "say it was ok," to begin with. I think if you ask them you might find there is a widespread differing opinion on it.
    mynaam said:


    EDIT: Also it seems the CDP of allowing 2 versions of dungeons and trials have been thrown out. we are now getting a BIS only trial/dungeon and for the rest there will be an event from time to time .. give them scraps it is all they are worth after all i guess. NOT smart

    The practice version of the trial is not ready to be tested yet, they have said as much.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    @mynaam Looking at the roadmap they gave us...the Story mode of the trial is coming out a few months after M19 goes live, so no I don't think that is being thrown out.

    @liadan1984 I don't know the range, but I assume it's about the same range as BoH centered on your marked target. The tab AoE is only 1000 yes, but if you hold it for 2.5 seconds instead of the 3 seconds needed for the AoE it's still a ST heal for 3k (or less if you don't hold it for that long)
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    So when designing gear, I think the devs can benefit by thinking of dimensionality like a bunch of 2D graphs/charts with either Dmg/Sec, Heal/Sec, DmgRes/Sec on the Y axis. I'll focus on explaining this for DPS graphs.

    An easy dimension we already have is Power, as you increase Power on the X axis, you increase DPS on the Y axis. Just to get this idea rolling, Ditto for Damage buffs/penalties in %.

    Another for Cool Downs, another for Action Points, etc.

    Then we can start to define what a Synergy is. A Synergy is when one dimension affects another dimension, for example reducing Cool Downs, naturally leads to increase in AP gain due to the way the mechanics work around that, this synergy will ultimately effect DPS. It's important to note that feature such as Storm Spell, while synergizing with crit rate, are not synergies in this definition, they are damage procs, no different from using an ability. Note, however, that if elemental damage was a dimension in this game, then SS would be a synergy between crit rate and elemental dimensions.

    We also have dimensions for Combat Advantage and Crit Rate and Crit Severity, but these have a binary aspect, it's either active or it isn't. Every dps paragon path needs a way to give themselves CA, in some situations the ability to give oneself CA throws the balance of dps potential totally out of wack, particularly in AoE situations.

    Feats, Abilities, Gear Bonuses and Passive Features can all interact with various dimensions to create Synergies between them were there otherwise wasn't one, this creates a more interesting game. We have some examples of this such as the last bottom feat of Whisperknife Rogue, "gain 5% more Ranged damage when you deal CA damage", Nightmare Wizardry, "10% Chance to gain CA when you Crit", etc.

    We have gear that has some synergies, such as the headpiece that gives 5k power when you deal CA damage, etc most of these are outclassed by something else, and also it's all about "+%dmg" or "+power", or the effects are otherwise so minor as to be barely noticeable (for example 25 ap on a crit every 5 seconds, iirc).

    I think part of the problem is that last statement, most of the effects we get from various pieces of gear, boons and class features, are "barely noticeable". Maybe the idea is that when you add up a bunch of barely noticeable things, you get something? But ime, for everything except straight damage buffs, that's not the case, you just get something that is also, barely noticeable.

    I encourage the devs to think about new dimensions they can add to the game, and to bring out others that are currently shadowed by Power and Damage buffs.

    I'm sure someone else could do a much better job at building a mathematical framework to view all of this, perhaps someone more familiar with the advanced abstract maths such as group, type, and category theory, but this is kinda how I view things, and maybe it's a starting point. It allows you to break the mechanics up into individual dimensions, and think about building bridges between them, called synergies, which are realized through feats, bonuses, class features, boons, temporary side-effects, etc.




    Ok, I'll come back down to earth now.

  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    Are there any changes on dps classes? I can remember, that SW and GF dps should get huge changes with mod 19. Noworries announced that in a discussion thread a few months ago.


    First bottom feat of the warlock allows you to summon a soul puppet with any encounter, you no longer need curse consume or curse synergy, for example if you use hellfire ring, curse bite, fiery bolt, curse bite rotation you get 3 stacks of soul investiture in a couple of seconds


    Edit: i think dailies give you 1 stack too
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User

    Are there any changes on dps classes? I can remember, that SW and GF dps should get huge changes with mod 19. Noworries announced that in a discussion thread a few months ago.

    There's a massive overbuff for Barbies. A buff to magnitudes for Fighter too. And some little buff for Hellbringer (compared with other classes buffs)
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 926 Arc User
    Hunter part of Ranger got some buffs to powers that were not used too much (while still keeping them subpar) and a massive nerf to AP gain.
  • volournvolourn Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    "(Seriously, you obviously do not want people to use active companions, so why don't you make everything augment? It is tiresome to explain that yes, we have dazilion of companions at our disposal, but no, you would be fool to summon most of them.) "

    Honestly, the best way for them to deal with companions vs augments is to make things like ioun stones into another piece of equipment like DnD ioun stones are. Just give us another 'equipment slot' where ioun stones can be slotted. That way you can gave one ioun stone plus a companion/pet. Of course, this would take extra work...
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 926 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    volourn said:

    "(Seriously, you obviously do not want people to use active companions, so why don't you make everything augment? It is tiresome to explain that yes, we have dazilion of companions at our disposal, but no, you would be fool to summon most of them.) "

    ...the best way for them to deal with companions vs augments...

    In my eyes the natural way to deal with augments would be cutting the monster stats by 1/3 and making augment enhancement to transfer HP only. That way DPS would probably select a bonus warrior and tanks/healers bonus safety.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    That would swing the pendulum back too far the other way so that Augments are pretty much useless. Unless they made it so that the extra HP are a necessity, in which case we're back where we started with "You can only have this companion summoned."

    Edit: Also, while you're at it, can we decide if companions are allowed to deal damage or not? There's some huge discrepancy between what combat companions are capable of. It would be really ncieif there was some unification of they all deal adequate damage or they all do HAMSTER damage.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    All companions should be augments and differentiation should be made on their powers. Pure augments should get powers like any other summoned one.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • agonistes#1431 agonistes Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    All companions should be augments and differentiation should be made on their powers. Pure augments should get powers like any other summoned one.

    While I agree with this, it's just a bandaid. Companions (augments) provide way too much in the way of stats. Gear needs to provide more stats and companions need to be balanced with them. Right now it's very, very one-sided in the way of companions.

    Also, even striker companions should just be immortal and not die, just like augments.
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