can we have a garenteed legendary pack/mount after X number of opening ,like how we have for upgrading enchantments with p.wards
4
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent Remove shards and change them for refimenet Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent Remove shards and change them for refimenet Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.
The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.
If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
Post edited by gabrieldourden on
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent Remove shards and change them for refimenet Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.
The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.
If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
In my post on 22 page, i suggested to add new enchants to artifacts, starting from rank 1 instead of adding new ranks to current enchants.
Two more ideas from me: - Progression - remove Attribute Stats from most Waist items and add Stat Enchantment/s to the game with Waist slot, so any class could have correct attribute stats in any artifact set (excluding +X Stats to all Attributes item). - Rewards - Add reinforcement kits for pants and shirts (like Kits from crafting) with bonuses other than basic stats, available from sources: events/some dungeons/promotions and move Claw and Scale of Bahamut to this category.
Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP.
This is touching one of the issues with enchantments/runestones. A new player is introduced to a variety of possibilities, but as soon as he interacts with other players more, there is a harsh reality to be revealed: For enchants only HP and Power matters. For runestones it is reduced just to Power. (utility slots have at least some conditional variability between dungeons and free running around)
As for the progression, it is a bummer. One enchant to rule them all, one runestone to rule them all. And this is not by some small margin.
(Funny enough, we have the best variability in a long long time amongst the weapon enchantments. Whopping three make some sense to use!)
Post edited by rikitaki on
5
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Soulforged it just gets one double killed. I used to wear it until pvp requests made it a liability and probably a party wipe. What is the point to instant res in the exact conditions that got you killed with no hp? Either give 3 sec immunity for a dodge, either delete it from the game bc it is not useless, is dangerous. Or rename it - Curseforged-. .
The real problem was that SF healing was tailored for a moment in the game where HP values were far lower. It should work on a reasonable percentage of your HP (say 30-33%) and should give damage immunity for like 2-3 seconds.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
5
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent Remove shards and change them for refimenet Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.
The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.
If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
We need to change the mentality that if there are rank 20 in something we all need to have rank 20. I suggested that enchants should be a secure value in character progression, with diminishing returns, so at low ranks the cost to upgrade is low and the stats gained are high but reaching to the end should be near impossible or not worth it but some players may do it for a marginal benefit.
I agree that having only radiant enchants relevant and empowered runestones is a design problem thats why I think items should not have stats, only bonuses (so they never become obsolete) and the stats come from enchants and other complements so they keep the value over time. There could be some exceptions but you get the idea.
The problem we have now is that lots of people have rank 15 everything, and when they create rank 16, everyone upgrades to rank 16 all the enchants in the first day. This is a design failure in my opinion. Also as I said we have lot of useless enchants in ranks 1-7 that only makes the game more complex for new players and fulls our bags with trash.
Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent Remove shards and change them for refimenet Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.
The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.
If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
We need to change the mentality that if there are rank 20 in something we all need to have rank 20. I suggested that enchants should be a secure value in character progression, with diminishing returns, so at low ranks the cost to upgrade is low and the stats gained are high but reaching to the end should be near impossible or not worth it but some players may do it for a marginal benefit.
I agree that having only radiant enchants relevant and empowered runestones is a design problem thats why I think items should not have stats, only bonuses (so they never become obsolete) and the stats come from enchants and other complements so they keep the value over time. There could be some exceptions but you get the idea.
The problem we have now is that lots of people have rank 15 everything, and when they create rank 16, everyone upgrades to rank 16 all the enchants in the first day. This is a design failure in my opinion. Also as I said we have lot of useless enchants in ranks 1-7 that only makes the game more complex for new players and fulls our bags with trash.
I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
1.) Lift the cap on refining rough astral diamonds. In the past you could theoretically refine 1.8 million RAD until it was nerfed to just 100k RAD a day per account. Did players spend more or less money when they had the ability to refine more RAD? If the cap is lifted there is still only so many hours in a day and players are only able to refine as much as they can earn in a day and this could be balanced out by removing the bonus for Random Queue's. When there is a daily limit it forces players to focus only on making their daily RAD before all else. If the cap is lifted it frees up the player to do whatever they want, knowing that even if they get zero AD today, they can make it up tomorrow. This will also allow new players to "get to the fun quicker" and at their own pace. The price of items on the Auction House will go up and so will the Zen Exchange rate and this will incentivize players to buy more Zen.
2.) ...
3.) ...
The removal of the daily refining limit per account would kill the ZAX within days, and in the long run it would also kill the game. Some vet. players are sitting on millions upon millions of unrefined AD, your suggestion would enable them to flood the ZAX with their AD and increase the backlog into waiting times beyond months or years. And btw. the last increase of the exchange rate in the ZAX did not "motivate" players to suddenly spend more money here, looking at the decrease of AD exchanged into ZEN per day these days it seems it had the opposite effect.
Items that are worth something would also be out of reach for any new player, since their prices would be insane - think about legendary mounts starting at 250m AD, or "cheap" epic companions around 5m AD.
New players would be up youknowwhatcreek without a paddle, and leave the game quickly in the end...
But there would also be a clear winner in this scenario - AD/Gold sellers would return to this game in droves, since they could finally generate limitless AD, snatch up any good item from the Auction House and sell it for real money directly. Hell, they could even create their own "DLC" packs and sell them for less then the real packs from the ZEN shop cost.
Anyway, there're better ways to help new players and encourage all players to spend (more) money on the game.
Feedback Overview Currently in neverwinter, most of the item & gear rewards from campaigns and level progression quests are obsolete and not particularly useful to players. Because of this players are often left feeling disappointed by the reward from quests. As a result players find themselves skipping alot of the quests & zones because the rewards are not worth the time & effort. Maps, such as pirates skyhold, mount hotenow, vellosk, helms hold, ebon downs, tower district, the chasm, and icespire peak are some examples. Also, aside from the boons, all rewards from campaigns except for undermountain and avernus is no longer relevant to players. For example there is no reason to play Barovia hunts since the free set of gear from starting undermountain campaign is higher quality than anything Barovia has to offer. Players are also starved for gold during mid to high level game progression.
Feedback Goal The goal of my proposal is twofold. First to make much of the "legacy" campaign & quest rewards more relevant to all players. Secondly is to reinvigorate the rewards for much of this "optional" content, and create incentive to play. Hopefully this will make much of the storyline driven areas of the game, as well as content on "legacy" campaigns more attractive to players of all levels. I do want to mention that Sybella's legacy campaign system is already a huge leap in this direction and is fantastic addition.
Feedback Functionality First and foremost we need to make some of the "legacy" campaigns (EE/Maze/UD/ToD/DR/Shar) available at lower levels, and of course rescale the zone contents accordingly. We also need to lower the player level requirements on some of the "legacy" lvl.70 artifact sets which can be obtained through those campaigns but are no longer useful at lvl.80. Therefore the player will get more use out of the items they obtain through the campaigns rather refining and using for 10 levels and discarding. The droprate for items required to complete Tyranny of Dragons boons (Haarl's Treatise on Dragonkind, Breyer's Draconic Investigations & Incantations of the Dragon Queen) is far too low, resulting in players having to spend hundreds of thousands of AD to purchase them from the Auction House. Additionally, upon completion of quests, we could give players a choice of rewards (like in STO) so if the player already has the quest's unique reward item or its an obsolete item, they can choose Gold, AD or RP. So in addition to adding incentive for new players, this will also add replay value to many of the storyline maps for high level players who are backtracking.
Finally crafting is not worth the cost. Gold spent on both collecting the materials as well as crafting components is not equal to the value of the final product. The time and effort spent on grinding guild marks to buy explorer scrolls to collect the necessary materials for masterwork is not proportionate to the quality of the masterwork items. Adjustments to the costs of crafting and the overall quality of endgame crafted gear need to be made.
Risks & Concerns The main concern I see with selectable rewards is the potential for abuse or farming gold/ad to sell on 3rd party websites. To prevent this I suggest implementing a daily limit or diminishing rewards for selectable quest rewards, much like the rewards for random queues.
Post edited by huijian on
3
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.
At some point you will allways be in a situation where your investment wont worth the upgrade or simply you are maxed in combat like lot of people is now. You can invest in a new character, mastercraft or your own guild, transmutes, etc.
Unless you create a system where the progression could be infinite, you will allways get there. And infinite progression wont happen in NW, 100%.
I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.
At some point you will allways be in a situation where your investment wont worth the upgrade or simply you are maxed in combat like lot of people is now. You can invest in a new character, mastercraft or your own guild, transmutes, etc.
Unless you create a system where the progression could be infinite, you will allways get there. And infinite progression wont happen in NW, 100%.
But progress should feel meaningful. Each chunk of progress should be something you feel, maybe not in-game but at least looking at your character sheet. There clearly is a ceiling at any time, but you should not feel like Achilles trying to kill the turtle. It's the difference between how Neverwinter was in the beginning, when every progress could be felt, and what it is becoming lately, a kind of oriental-style grindy game.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
It's the difference between how Neverwinter was in the beginning, when every progress could be felt, and what it is becoming lately, a kind of oriental-style grindy game.
Neverwinter has always been an Asian grindy game. From the very beginning.
1) Make leveling and story progression make sense again. It's far to easy to lose the story at this time of the game because it is too easy to out level areas well before you even get there.
2) Make rewards for content useful. Especially dungeon content. Yes the reward should be based on the general difficulty of the dungeon, but right now some of the older dungeon rewards are very lack-luster. I've seen a few good ideas in this thread to help that issue.
3) Make crafting great again. While this was not a focus in my own posts, I agree with all the folks who argue that crafting should be worth the effort. I generally enjoy crafting in games and as a returning player it was rather sad to me that my guildies told me to not even bother with master crafting as the rewards were not worth the current effort needed. Again I saw many worthwhile posts about how this can be improved. Crafting could/should even have its own CDP in my opinion.
Since responses have been slowing down/getting a bit tangential, we're going to close up this thread now. @cwhitesidedev#9752 will be working on the proposal to have it available next week.
We'll be starting the next CDPs late next week/early the week after to give everyone some breathing room
Thanks so much again for what has been an excellent CDP. Thank you all for the time, effort and passion you put in as well. I feel like the group is working much better together and the next CDP will help to solidify that further.
On top of all the hard work that every has put into the thread you can also see/hear the fruits of your labor from various content creators and community members on Youtube:
Some of the below sections are copied and pasted so everyone can understand how we move forward with the ideas, discussions and comments.
'I was going to frame things as a proposal but I think we are all mature enough for me to actually communicate what we are planning to work on (or are actively working on) with the caveat that all features and content are subject to change. If there is ever a big course correct we will let you know. I hope that sounds ok.
The CDP discussion will help inform the work moving forward and no doubt we will be reaching out for further info, questions and/or thoughts regarding certain topics. We will do this on streams, through mini CDP topics, in some cases calls, emails and of course re-reading and discussing specific posts from this CDP. And we will keep everyone up to date on the progress in these areas both through communication and the preview server (An example of this was the sharing of the road-map).
Therefore we intend to be working in the following areas this year although some of the features, systems and content will be released in phases. To this end we will be publishing a high level road map in the coming weeks!'
Note: Much of this CDP will be included in Mod 20 as well as CDP 1.Again timing and execution is subject to change but we will keep you informed if there are major changes in direction and you will be able to see the execution of the intent in preview as well as potentially showing progress in separate threads in the CDP section of the forum.
In some case below I have copied and pasted from top 3 favorites from CDP members:
Item Redundancy - Vertical progression items will be part of mod deployments and horizontal progression items will be part of episode deployments.
Return on Investment- Rewards from all content should be directly related to the stats, time and effort required to complete the content. Items should only be bound to account or unbound.
Horizontal Progression - Add more horizontal progression - in multiple aspects of the game (from campaigns, boons, gear, to feats) (feat like effects and abilities and items that can also offer both negative and positive modifiers dependent on your class and those you play with for example).
Campaigns - Needs to be made more horizontal in my opinion in terms of progression/rewards. Boons should be worth the time/effort required to obtain them. Drops in BHE's and dungeons for each campaign, episodes should have rare drops based on the thematic of the story, potential for Mastercraft drops, and progression of personal boons tied to enemy achievements.
Professions - Time, investment and effort should be reflected in the value of items that are able to be produced. Crafting and playing the market "are" the game for some players. Professions should not be ignored for extended periods and should be updated with every MOD.
Streamlining Currencies- Reduce the number of currencies across the game. Allow currencies to be used to buy updated and relevant items, including Professions Ingredients and Guild Coffer donations and give multiple avenues to item acquisition
Revamp 'Stores'- rewards in the Ardent Favor & Celestial Synergy and Revamp the Rewards of Devotion from Invoking. Add a superstore instead of WB/TB store/Legacy/Invocation/Legacy seals/dragonflight.
Content Scaling - should also equal reward scaling, meaning the rewards should at the very least be on the actual character level.
Account Wide Rewards - Do a pass on category of rewards and look at making some account bound (More details to follow).
Bridges and Progression Golden Path - Build and repair existing bridges in progression and content gating.
For Consideration - Add a Universal vendor that accepts outdated items and gives players Rewards in exchange.
For Consideration - Add leaderboard/highscores - for times/# of completions and maybe also solo times? It's so simple yet so effective (It is actually quite complex in terms of how players could have separate goals or needs in the same content as someone else with a different goal. We will discuss)
For Consideration - Mentoring is something we will discuss in more detail in another CDP.
We will leave the thread open for 24 hours should anyone have anymore comments or feedback regarding the above.
Chris
P.S: Our next topics are PVP and CDP. We will stagger these with PVP going first and Rob H will manage that working group with you all.
Post edited by cwhitesidedev#9752 on
18
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Item Redundancy - Vertical progression items will be part of mod deployments and horizontal progression items will be part of episode deployments.
Return on Investment- Rewards from all content should be directly related to the stats, time and effort required to complete the content. Items should only be bound to account or unbound.
Horizontal Progression - Add more horizontal progression - in multiple aspects of the game (from campaigns, boons, gear, to feats) (feat like effects and abilities and items that can also offer both negative and positive modifiers dependent on your class and those you play with for example).
Campaigns - Needs to be made more horizontal in my opinion in terms of progression/rewards. Boons should be worth the time/effort required to obtain them. Drops in BHE's and dungeons for each campaign, episodes should have rare drops based on the thematic of the story, potential for Mastercraft drops, and progression of personal boons tied to enemy achievements.
Professions - Time, investment and effort should be reflected in the value of items that are able to be produced. Crafting and playing the market "are" the game for some players. Professions should not be ignored for extended periods and should be updated with every MOD.
Streamlining Currencies- Reduce the number of currencies across the game. Allow currencies to be used to buy updated and relevant items, including Professions Ingredients and Guild Coffer donations and give multiple avenues to item acquisition
Revamp 'Stores'- rewards in the Ardent Favor & Celestial Synergy and Revamp the Rewards of Devotion from Invoking. Add a superstore instead of WB/TB store/Legacy/Invocation/Legacy seals/dragonflight.
Content Scaling - should also equal reward scaling, meaning the rewards should at the very least be on the actual character level.
Account Wide Rewards - Do a pass on category of rewards and look at making some account bound (More details to follow).
Bridges and Progression Golden Path - Build and repair existing bridges in progression and content gating.
For Consideration - Add a Universal vendor that accepts outdated items and gives players Rewards in exchange.
For Consideration - Add leaderboard/highscores - for times/# of completions and maybe also solo times? It's so simple yet so effective (It is actually quite complex in terms of how players could have separate goals or needs in the same content as someone else with a different goal. We will discuss)
Wow. I think this hits all the high points. Impressive. I'm super excited to see how this gets executed.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Nothing to add, but i want to say as a feedback that this kind of communication is really nice to see and read, no matter how pleased or not i am with what have been picked up from the CDP to add in your "todo list".
It's intersting, from my perspective, to have a general longterm glance at where you are driving the game to (or trying to) and include the players point of vue in the process. Hope it will lead to nice win-win situations (business-playfulness)
2
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited February 2020
@cwhitesidedev#9752 Very good list. It seems that the CDP has been working quite well. Now, on with the CDP on the CDP to make it even better.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Thanks so much again for what has been an excellent CDP. Thank you all for the time, effort and passion you put in as well. I feel like the group is working much better together and the next CDP will help to solidify that further.
I'm late on feedback, but regarding this considerations I wish to ask some that are not there:
- Make enchants bound to slot and not on equip (like the bonding runestones) cause with the prices of press wards is almost impossible to have two perfect builds on the same char.
- Conect some paths on old maps like south areas of river district where you have to walk in circles to get from one he to another. Chult is another walkish map.
- Put time on BHE's like the dragons one cause with legacy campaigns is a pain in the HAMSTER sit for 40min waiting for one to spawn.
- Let who completed Icewind Dale Campaing to acess dwarven valley and the other map without join a faction in Caer-Kong first.
Thanks so much again for what has been an excellent CDP. Thank you all for the time, effort and passion you put in as well. I feel like the group is working much better together and the next CDP will help to solidify that further.
I'm late on feedback, but regarding this considerations I wish to ask some that are not there:
- Make enchants bound to slot and not on equip (like the bonding runestones) cause with the prices of press wards is almost impossible to have two perfect builds on the same char.
You can currently move bonding runestones and all other enchants back and forth between characters, so you only need 1 set in theory.
Essence of Aggression
Flounder is Coming (GWF) Hate is Coming (HR) Sulfuric the Acid (CW) Lost and Flound (TR)
Hi Chris, thanks for the summation. Can you let us know if you are thinking of moving effects of artifact weapons (the ones we spend cubes to unlock/increase, AD to change), and make them either a separate slotted item or tab or 'stone'? This would help with horizontal progression (building up your repertoire), less bug checking as the effects stay stable for longer, and finally, help with the "drop this, pickup that" mentality (in my opinion).
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
Thanks so much again for what has been an excellent CDP. Thank you all for the time, effort and passion you put in as well. I feel like the group is working much better together and the next CDP will help to solidify that further.
I'm late on feedback, but regarding this considerations I wish to ask some that are not there:
- Make enchants bound to slot and not on equip (like the bonding runestones) cause with the prices of press wards is almost impossible to have two perfect builds on the same char.
You can currently move bonding runestones and all other enchants back and forth between characters, so you only need 1 set in theory.
Yes, but the gold cost for unslotting is heinous for the new players, and makes changing them around unfeasible.
I know it will never happen, but ideally the cost of refining items should come down dramatically so it isn't quite the investment it is now, especially armor/weapon enchants. It has taken me 2 years to get to a point where I have 3 r15 bondings, that is way too long for someone to grind it out for free, and the cost on the AH is too high for all but the wallet warriors...
that's a big list, on top of another big list.. all these little changes come with bugs and unforseen problems.. they always do. there is a lot of stuff in here not represented by most peoples top three. I worry about too much change at once and changes that don't honestly reflect what people want once taken thru the devs lense. that was one of the biggest problems with mod 16. and so far I've seen no indication that that lesson was honestly learned. it seems like cutting back on changes and going slow on these things might have a better effect. there is no cure for a dish when you've added too much salt.. if you add too little you can always add more.
Comments
Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent
Remove shards and change them for refimenet
Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon
Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.
The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.
Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
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The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.
If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
- Progression - remove Attribute Stats from most Waist items and add Stat Enchantment/s to the game with Waist slot, so any class could have correct attribute stats in any artifact set (excluding +X Stats to all Attributes item).
- Rewards - Add reinforcement kits for pants and shirts (like Kits from crafting) with bonuses other than basic stats, available from sources: events/some dungeons/promotions and move Claw and Scale of Bahamut to this category.
As for the progression, it is a bummer. One enchant to rule them all, one runestone to rule them all. And this is not by some small margin.
(Funny enough, we have the best variability in a long long time amongst the weapon enchantments. Whopping three make some sense to use!)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I agree that having only radiant enchants relevant and empowered runestones is a design problem thats why I think items should not have stats, only bonuses (so they never become obsolete) and the stats come from enchants and other complements so they keep the value over time. There could be some exceptions but you get the idea.
The problem we have now is that lots of people have rank 15 everything, and when they create rank 16, everyone upgrades to rank 16 all the enchants in the first day. This is a design failure in my opinion. Also as I said we have lot of useless enchants in ranks 1-7 that only makes the game more complex for new players and fulls our bags with trash.
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Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
And btw. the last increase of the exchange rate in the ZAX did not "motivate" players to suddenly spend more money here, looking at the decrease of AD exchanged into ZEN per day these days it seems it had the opposite effect.
Items that are worth something would also be out of reach for any new player, since their prices would be insane - think about legendary mounts starting at 250m AD, or "cheap" epic companions around 5m AD.
New players would be up youknowwhatcreek without a paddle, and leave the game quickly in the end...
But there would also be a clear winner in this scenario - AD/Gold sellers would return to this game in droves, since they could finally generate limitless AD, snatch up any good item from the Auction House and sell it for real money directly. Hell, they could even create their own "DLC" packs and sell them for less then the real packs from the ZEN shop cost.
Anyway, there're better ways to help new players and encourage all players to spend (more) money on the game.
Currently in neverwinter, most of the item & gear rewards from campaigns and level progression quests are obsolete and not particularly useful to players. Because of this players are often left feeling disappointed by the reward from quests. As a result players find themselves skipping alot of the quests & zones because the rewards are not worth the time & effort. Maps, such as pirates skyhold, mount hotenow, vellosk, helms hold, ebon downs, tower district, the chasm, and icespire peak are some examples. Also, aside from the boons, all rewards from campaigns except for undermountain and avernus is no longer relevant to players. For example there is no reason to play Barovia hunts since the free set of gear from starting undermountain campaign is higher quality than anything Barovia has to offer. Players are also starved for gold during mid to high level game progression.
Feedback Goal
The goal of my proposal is twofold. First to make much of the "legacy" campaign & quest rewards more relevant to all players. Secondly is to reinvigorate the rewards for much of this "optional" content, and create incentive to play. Hopefully this will make much of the storyline driven areas of the game, as well as content on "legacy" campaigns more attractive to players of all levels. I do want to mention that Sybella's legacy campaign system is already a huge leap in this direction and is fantastic addition.
Feedback Functionality
First and foremost we need to make some of the "legacy" campaigns (EE/Maze/UD/ToD/DR/Shar) available at lower levels, and of course rescale the zone contents accordingly. We also need to lower the player level requirements on some of the "legacy" lvl.70 artifact sets which can be obtained through those campaigns but are no longer useful at lvl.80. Therefore the player will get more use out of the items they obtain through the campaigns rather refining and using for 10 levels and discarding.
The droprate for items required to complete Tyranny of Dragons boons (Haarl's Treatise on Dragonkind, Breyer's Draconic Investigations & Incantations of the Dragon Queen) is far too low, resulting in players having to spend hundreds of thousands of AD to purchase them from the Auction House.
Additionally, upon completion of quests, we could give players a choice of rewards (like in STO) so if the player already has the quest's unique reward item or its an obsolete item, they can choose Gold, AD or RP. So in addition to adding incentive for new players, this will also add replay value to many of the storyline maps for high level players who are backtracking.
Finally crafting is not worth the cost. Gold spent on both collecting the materials as well as crafting components is not equal to the value of the final product. The time and effort spent on grinding guild marks to buy explorer scrolls to collect the necessary materials for masterwork is not proportionate to the quality of the masterwork items. Adjustments to the costs of crafting and the overall quality of endgame crafted gear need to be made.
Risks & Concerns
The main concern I see with selectable rewards is the potential for abuse or farming gold/ad to sell on 3rd party websites. To prevent this I suggest implementing a daily limit or diminishing rewards for selectable quest rewards, much like the rewards for random queues.
Unless you create a system where the progression could be infinite, you will allways get there. And infinite progression wont happen in NW, 100%.
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It's the difference between how Neverwinter was in the beginning, when every progress could be felt, and what it is becoming lately, a kind of oriental-style grindy game.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
1) Make leveling and story progression make sense again. It's far to easy to lose the story at this time of the game because it is too easy to out level areas well before you even get there.
2) Make rewards for content useful. Especially dungeon content. Yes the reward should be based on the general difficulty of the dungeon, but right now some of the older dungeon rewards are very lack-luster. I've seen a few good ideas in this thread to help that issue.
3) Make crafting great again. While this was not a focus in my own posts, I agree with all the folks who argue that crafting should be worth the effort. I generally enjoy crafting in games and as a returning player it was rather sad to me that my guildies told me to not even bother with master crafting as the rewards were not worth the current effort needed. Again I saw many worthwhile posts about how this can be improved. Crafting could/should even have its own CDP in my opinion.
Is this some kind of twisted joke?Isn't it a bit early to give feedback on feedback when none of the feedback suggested in the CDPs has actually made it into the game?
Anymore top 3s? I will say how the day goes on CDP and if not then we will close the thread tonight.
The CDP CDP @rjc9000 has been asked for by many CDP members and will focus on how to make the format of the CDP more accessible and valuable.
Chris
We'll be starting the next CDPs late next week/early the week after to give everyone some breathing room
Thanks so much again for what has been an excellent CDP. Thank you all for the time, effort and passion you put in as well. I feel like the group is working much better together and the next CDP will help to solidify that further.
On top of all the hard work that every has put into the thread you can also see/hear the fruits of your labor from various content creators and community members on Youtube:
https://youtube.com/results?search_query=neverwinter+cdp
Some of the below sections are copied and pasted so everyone can understand how we move forward with the ideas, discussions and comments.
'I was going to frame things as a proposal but I think we are all mature enough for me to actually communicate what we are planning to work on (or are actively working on) with the caveat that all features and content are subject to change. If there is ever a big course correct we will let you know. I hope that sounds ok.
The CDP discussion will help inform the work moving forward and no doubt we will be reaching out for further info, questions and/or thoughts regarding certain topics. We will do this on streams, through mini CDP topics, in some cases calls, emails and of course re-reading and discussing specific posts from this CDP. And we will keep everyone up to date on the progress in these areas both through communication and the preview server (An example of this was the sharing of the road-map).
Therefore we intend to be working in the following areas this year although some of the features, systems and content will be released in phases. To this end we will be publishing a high level road map in the coming weeks!'
Note: Much of this CDP will be included in Mod 20 as well as CDP 1.Again timing and execution is subject to change but we will keep you informed if there are major changes in direction and you will be able to see the execution of the intent in preview as well as potentially showing progress in separate threads in the CDP section of the forum.
In some case below I have copied and pasted from top 3 favorites from CDP members:
Item Redundancy - Vertical progression items will be part of mod deployments and horizontal progression items will be part of episode deployments.
Return on Investment- Rewards from all content should be directly related to the stats, time and effort required to complete the content. Items should only be bound to account or unbound.
Horizontal Progression - Add more horizontal progression - in multiple aspects of the game (from campaigns, boons, gear, to feats) (feat like effects and abilities and items that can also offer both negative and positive modifiers dependent on your class and those you play with for example).
Campaigns - Needs to be made more horizontal in my opinion in terms of progression/rewards. Boons should be worth the time/effort required to obtain them. Drops in BHE's and dungeons for each campaign, episodes should have rare drops based on the thematic of the story, potential for Mastercraft drops, and progression of personal boons tied to enemy achievements.
Professions - Time, investment and effort should be reflected in the value of items that are able to be produced. Crafting and playing the market "are" the game for some players. Professions should not be ignored for extended periods and should be updated with every MOD.
Streamlining Currencies- Reduce the number of currencies across the game. Allow currencies to be used to buy updated and relevant items, including Professions Ingredients and Guild Coffer donations and give multiple avenues to item acquisition
Revamp 'Stores'- rewards in the Ardent Favor & Celestial Synergy and Revamp the Rewards of Devotion from Invoking. Add a superstore instead of WB/TB store/Legacy/Invocation/Legacy seals/dragonflight.
Content Scaling - should also equal reward scaling, meaning the rewards should at the very least be on the actual character level.
Account Wide Rewards - Do a pass on category of rewards and look at making some account bound (More details to follow).
Bridges and Progression Golden Path - Build and repair existing bridges in progression and content gating.
For Consideration - Add a Universal vendor that accepts outdated items and gives players Rewards in exchange.
For Consideration - Add leaderboard/highscores - for times/# of completions and maybe also solo times? It's so simple yet so effective (It is actually quite complex in terms of how players could have separate goals or needs in the same content as someone else with a different goal. We will discuss)
For Consideration - Mentoring is something we will discuss in more detail in another CDP.
We will leave the thread open for 24 hours should anyone have anymore comments or feedback regarding the above.
Chris
P.S: Our next topics are PVP and CDP. We will stagger these with PVP going first and Rob H will manage that working group with you all.
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"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Nothing to add, but i want to say as a feedback that this kind of communication is really nice to see and read, no matter how pleased or not i am with what have been picked up from the CDP to add in your "todo list".
It's intersting, from my perspective, to have a general longterm glance at where you are driving the game to (or trying to) and include the players point of vue in the process. Hope it will lead to nice win-win situations (business-playfulness)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
- Make enchants bound to slot and not on equip (like the bonding runestones) cause with the prices of press wards is almost impossible to have two perfect builds on the same char.
- Conect some paths on old maps like south areas of river district where you have to walk in circles to get from one he to another. Chult is another walkish map.
- Put time on BHE's like the dragons one cause with legacy campaigns is a pain in the HAMSTER sit for 40min waiting for one to spawn.
- Let who completed Icewind Dale Campaing to acess dwarven valley and the other map without join a faction in Caer-Kong first.
You can currently move bonding runestones and all other enchants back and forth between characters, so you only need 1 set in theory.
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The Small BandI know it will never happen, but ideally the cost of refining items should come down dramatically so it isn't quite the investment it is now, especially armor/weapon enchants. It has taken me 2 years to get to a point where I have 3 r15 bondings, that is way too long for someone to grind it out for free, and the cost on the AH is too high for all but the wallet warriors...
Chris