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CDP Topic: Rewards & Progression

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  • hoveristhoverist Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited February 2020

    hoverist said:

    @rainer#8575 you misunderstood me. Idea #4. I did not mean deletion of all the resources, and the preservation of relevant resources in crafting. to exclude the presence of favorite resources in current recipes.

    I saw your comment indeed. So you mean the recipes should be changed/balanced more so that all resources are equally attractive?
    yes.

    and not as in the first three crafts: one gold. and where to put other resources - it was not clear.

    please excuse me if I don't explain clearly, I have to use an Internet translator.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    @cwhitesidedev#9752 ,

    I am SUPER late to the party, thanks to work, but I really don't have anything to add, that hasn't been discussed already by Sharp, Rainer and the others. Again, though, as I pointed out in the VIP CDP, streamlining the vendors and updating them to coincide with the changes to rewards will go a long way.
  • maturutukimaturutuki Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Few more from me in Rainer's style:
    Rewards - New insignia mount powers - fill all insignia combinations.
    QoL - Replace miniature monsters when one of them is in inventory on dropping with currency or at least allow to sell them for few gold. Or add button: throw all multiple copies away.
    Progression - Instead of adding rank 16 enchants add new enchants enchants for artifacts and start with them at level 1 to make lower rank enchanting stones/mops more usable.
    QoL - Remove enchants from items - make separate page for them. Allow to put enchants in all possible here, but items player wear will decide if they are active and which type they have.
    Rewards - Stronghold: Change rewards in few guild quests from profession vouchers to something else.




  • haden42eehaden42ee Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited February 2020

    QoL - Remove enchants from items - make separate page for them. Allow to put enchants in all possible here, but items player wear will decide if they are active and which type they have.

    This is a VERY attractive idea - easy to understand and use as a player and easy to develop.

    Enchants tab would have 3 lists: Offense (up to 9), Defense (up to 8) and Utility (up to 6, if we account for Mako's Signet Ring). All items would have the special ability to "activate" next enchant(s) in appropriate list(s) - for example, all endgame boots activate 1 utility enchant, artifact equipment necklaces activate 1 offense and 1 utility enchant, etc. The lists can be reordered by the player and work as a queue - enchants get activated in top to bottom order. Note that some bottom enchants on a list might not get activated due to gear selection (rings with offense vs. defense) and (possibly) scaling in lower-level content.
  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 253 Cryptic Developer
    Hi All,

    Any more top 3 ideas folks? If not then I will close the thread, catch up (Sorry i have been super busy), and put forward a summary proposal.

    Thanks

    Chris
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Not my top 3, but I see a lot of requests here for expansion of dungeons into beginner and advanced. Maybe instead of more random queues, we could move to a single Random Queue that gives 5,000 AD each time with no limits per day (with role bonus possible too). The extra AD that players need could come from the dungeon itself:

    Each dungeon would have a unique IL requisite, and would give out a unique rAD bonus (approximately its IL level) once per week if a player completes it. This would allow players to queue a dungeon directly and still earn rAD.

    How would random teams be assembled: The program would select a full team, then send them to the highest IL level dungeon they all qualify for, that none of them have completed yet that week.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • oremonger#9999 oremonger Member Posts: 213 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    self moderated
  • nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Cryptic Developer, Administrator Posts: 4,066 Community Manager
    Hey folks! As Chris mentioned, we will begin work on the summary/proposal on this topic but for those looking ahead at future CDPs, we will likely run two CDPs concurrently: PvP and CDP. Stay tuned for more info on this once Rewards and Progression wraps up!
  • hastur905hastur905 Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    So I am going to cheat a little here, at first I thought I would list my Top 3 topics that should have their own CDP, which could definitely happen given the size and scope covered in this one. Instead I decided to wordsmith the topics to 2 sets of 3, Rewards gets a top 3 as does Progression. Also as suggested earlier, I was looking though the lens of fun.

    Rewards
    Any reward should be equivalent to time and work invested.

    1. Dungeon and chest rewards must be commensurate with the time and effort taken to complete it, also if the rewards are tied behind RNG there should also be a "pity" currency(new content=seals, old content=superstore tokens).
    2. Add a superstore instead of WB/TB store/Legacy/Invocation/Legacy seals/dragonflight
    3. Drops in BHE's and dungeons for each campaign should have rare drops based on the thematic of the story, potential for Mastercraft drops, and progression of personal boons tied to enemy achievements.

    Progression
    Needs to combine both Vertical and Horizontal
    1. Boons, both personal and SH given need to be reworked so they don't give flat stats to future proof and prevent devaluation, also artificial choice based on buildings should be removed, rank 20 guild should allow choice of any boons, also solves accessibility issues.
    2. Crafting at early stages should be more clear and progression straight forward, at MW the maps should be abandoned for an Endless Dungeon for gathering, but progression should be more horizontal than it currently is.
    3. Additional feats, encounters, at-wills, dailies should be added, some based on potential questing and learning, some as a system add on.

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,352 Arc User

    Hey folks! As Chris mentioned, we will begin work on the summary/proposal on this topic but for those looking ahead at future CDPs, we will likely run two CDPs concurrently: PvP and CDP. Stay tuned for more info on this once Rewards and Progression wraps up!

    What's the topic of this other cocurrent CDP supposed to be about?

  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    What's the topic of this other cocurrent CDP supposed to be about?

    It's a CDP on the CDP. No joke. That's what it is.
  • brycelovesgamingbrycelovesgaming Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I know I'm kinda late, a lot of what has been talked about is all very good here is my suggestion for leveling, it will bot be easy, or cheap, but it will give a chance to overhaul the new player experience.

    +Feedback Overview: Overhaul the leveling and story of the game. Similar to WoW's cataclysm
    +Feedback Goal: Give new players a better first impression of the game. As someone who recruits a lot of new players I can say they find it hard to want to stay when the questing is boring and repetitive.
    +Feedback Functionality: and overhauled leveling experience could help better tie the story of each zone (perhaps less zones) together. Making new players care more about the game. This might be just because I am a lore fanatic. I love Forgotten Realms Lore and fantasy RPG Lore in general. But having a single storyline that new players play through to learn their class and reach level 80. The new starting area/tutorial was a great start. This could also be used to update the game to be more current to Forgotten Realms timeline, it has been a long time since the Spellplague, and yet we still have zones fill of it.
    +Risks & Concerns: Obvious risk and concern is financial. A complete rewrite to the early game would likely cost a lot of money, and who knows how many new players it would bring in. But it would definitely help those new players enjoy their time leveling much more if they have a decent story to follow, with good quest design to back it up.
  • kir4me8604#8436 kir4me8604 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    My fifth of six posts are Leveling & Overleveling Rewards.

    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback) for Leveling & Overleveling

    My feedback suggestion will focus on the system for leveling up and overleveling experience beyond level 80. The current state of leveling/overleveling is that there is not any post advancement of characters after 80.

    Many games have a brand new experience once players reach the level cap. Examples: Elder Scroll Online has the Champion Point system, Diablo 3 has the Paragon System, Warframe has the Mastery System, Remnant has the Traits System, Black Desert Online has the Awakened and Succession Systems. Once you hit the level cap in these games, over-leveling has purpose and is very rewarding in advancing character beyond the level caps.

    In Neverwinter, once a player hits 80, that is it. You start a tendious, unsatisfying gamble with stats to achieve a damage, heal, or tank output. The sad part is that you began to focus so much on trying to hit stat caps that scaling renders all of it irrelevant in under level 80 content.

    Proposed feedback:

    - Development an advancement system for progressing characters beyond or after Level 80 cap. Every level gain gives 1 point for advancing characters in their respected roles.

    - Remove damage bonuses from gear, and put them into the new system as advancement targets for dps paths.

    - Remove heal bonuses from companions, and put them into the new system as advancement targets for heal paths.

    - Create tank bonuses for the new system as advancement targets for tank paths.

    This is my only feedback leveling/overleveling. Neverwinter has tried to offer refinement, astral diamonds, and other rewards for leveling/overleveling. It was abused and nerfed. If the proposed is not feasible, the experience gain should stop after a character reaches 80 than to receive experience, level up and it does nothing to advance a character's stats, feats, boons, or damage/heal/tank output.

    The new advancement system should further develop characters in their respected roles: DPS, HEAL, and TANK. Offering bonuses that increase damage output, heal output, and aggro output.

    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)

    The goal is to establish an intentional system were end game or veteran players can push the output of their character in their respected roles. This system should complement item level gear, boons, and feats.

    Risks & Concerns

    - Risk: This new system could further cause performance gaps for the following two subgroups: newly 80s and advanced 80 players.

    - Concern: Gear with damage and power bonuses continue to cause disproportions as new gear is being implemented into the game. These gear pieces continue to rival current high item level gear and will be manipulated in any advancement system.

    - Mitigation: Revamp the factors that contribute to how high damage is achieved. Remove damage bonuses from gear, and put them into the new system as advancement targets for dps paths. Remove heal bonuses from companions, and put them into the new system as advancement targets for heal paths. Create tank bonuses for the new system as advancement targets for tank paths: so that tanks can maintain aggro no matter how hard dps hit or healers heal.

    This is just my suggestion based on my experience in Neverwinter so far. My last post will cover Event Rewards
  • demarw2#2749 demarw2 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    My top 3:

    1) add different difficulties to dungeons (with very hard 'hard modes') with different gear/loot depending on the difficulty (from +1 to +5 like shadowstalker ring). So that viable gear can also drop in old dungeons. So that We have an incentive to run them.
    2) class balancing for dps classes is still not good. Some classes are still lacking in single target damage. That is important to stop the exclusion of some classes in ToMM. That issue should/could be solved very fast.
    3) change character bound to account bound with all items and companions. Or add a class change token. So it would be easier to switch the class, if the choosen class is useless at the moment (like in point 2).
  • hades#2194 hades Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    can we have a garenteed legendary pack/mount after X number of opening ,like how we have for upgrading enchantments with p.wards
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User
    Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.

    Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent
    Remove shards and change them for refimenet
    Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon
    Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.

    The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.

    Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • maturutukimaturutuki Member Posts: 74 Arc User

    Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.

    Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent
    Remove shards and change them for refimenet
    Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon
    Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.

    The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.

    Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.

    Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.

    The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.

    If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
    In my post on 22 page, i suggested to add new enchants to artifacts, starting from rank 1 instead of adding new ranks to current enchants.
  • maturutukimaturutuki Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Two more ideas from me:
    - Progression - remove Attribute Stats from most Waist items and add Stat Enchantment/s to the game with Waist slot, so any class could have correct attribute stats in any artifact set (excluding +X Stats to all Attributes item).
    - Rewards - Add reinforcement kits for pants and shirts (like Kits from crafting) with bonuses other than basic stats, available from sources: events/some dungeons/promotions and move Claw and Scale of Bahamut to this category.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User

    Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.

    Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent
    Remove shards and change them for refimenet
    Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon
    Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.

    The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.

    Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.

    Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.

    The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.

    If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
    We need to change the mentality that if there are rank 20 in something we all need to have rank 20. I suggested that enchants should be a secure value in character progression, with diminishing returns, so at low ranks the cost to upgrade is low and the stats gained are high but reaching to the end should be near impossible or not worth it but some players may do it for a marginal benefit.

    I agree that having only radiant enchants relevant and empowered runestones is a design problem thats why I think items should not have stats, only bonuses (so they never become obsolete) and the stats come from enchants and other complements so they keep the value over time. There could be some exceptions but you get the idea.

    The problem we have now is that lots of people have rank 15 everything, and when they create rank 16, everyone upgrades to rank 16 all the enchants in the first day. This is a design failure in my opinion. Also as I said we have lot of useless enchants in ranks 1-7 that only makes the game more complex for new players and fulls our bags with trash.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited February 2020

    Another suggestion related to the feedback about enchants: Normalize them.

    Remove every enchant drop from rank 1-7 and change them for refimenent
    Remove shards and change them for refimenet
    Make rank 8 -> New rank 1 so we will have rank 1-9 for enchants and rank 1-8 for armor / weapon
    Add new ranks to enchants (not sure about armor/weapon) so they will be a good source of stats while other items are focused on unique bonuses, etc, so when each player upgrade his enchants, is a secure value over time.

    The different ranks people have there stay as legacy enchants, they can be used as now or be refinded as this change is only to normalize things so new players arent confused by all of those useless enchants and it has no sense to equip a rank 6 when rank 8s cost 1500 AD.

    Im sure there are other implications, but here is the idea.

    Adding new ranks to enchants could make sense but not with the current investment/return curve. Looking at the high end of the spectrum, moving from an R14 to an R15 costs in the ballpark of a million in refining items and gives a very small increase in power or HP. People do that only when all other item-related sources of stats are already at BIS, and it's really a painful and slow process.

    The bad thing is that maxing-out far more important categories (bonding runestones, legendary augment and companion items) is really fast and gives massive results. Then you get to the point where the only thing left is refining your enchants to an higher level and your progression slows to a crawl.

    If you now add a rank 16 that will costs 2 millions for, say, 400 power more, then it will be like when Igor in Frankenstein Junior says "Could be worse. Could be raining".
    We need to change the mentality that if there are rank 20 in something we all need to have rank 20. I suggested that enchants should be a secure value in character progression, with diminishing returns, so at low ranks the cost to upgrade is low and the stats gained are high but reaching to the end should be near impossible or not worth it but some players may do it for a marginal benefit.

    I agree that having only radiant enchants relevant and empowered runestones is a design problem thats why I think items should not have stats, only bonuses (so they never become obsolete) and the stats come from enchants and other complements so they keep the value over time. There could be some exceptions but you get the idea.

    The problem we have now is that lots of people have rank 15 everything, and when they create rank 16, everyone upgrades to rank 16 all the enchants in the first day. This is a design failure in my opinion. Also as I said we have lot of useless enchants in ranks 1-7 that only makes the game more complex for new players and fulls our bags with trash.
    I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,936 Arc User
    edited February 2020


    1.) Lift the cap on refining rough astral diamonds. In the past you could theoretically refine 1.8 million RAD until it was nerfed to just 100k RAD a day per account. Did players spend more or less money when they had the ability to refine more RAD? If the cap is lifted there is still only so many hours in a day and players are only able to refine as much as they can earn in a day and this could be balanced out by removing the bonus for Random Queue's. When there is a daily limit it forces players to focus only on making their daily RAD before all else. If the cap is lifted it frees up the player to do whatever they want, knowing that even if they get zero AD today, they can make it up tomorrow. This will also allow new players to "get to the fun quicker" and at their own pace. The price of items on the Auction House will go up and so will the Zen Exchange rate and this will incentivize players to buy more Zen.

    2.) ...

    3.) ...

    The removal of the daily refining limit per account would kill the ZAX within days, and in the long run it would also kill the game. Some vet. players are sitting on millions upon millions of unrefined AD, your suggestion would enable them to flood the ZAX with their AD and increase the backlog into waiting times beyond months or years.
    And btw. the last increase of the exchange rate in the ZAX did not "motivate" players to suddenly spend more money here, looking at the decrease of AD exchanged into ZEN per day these days it seems it had the opposite effect.

    Items that are worth something would also be out of reach for any new player, since their prices would be insane - think about legendary mounts starting at 250m AD, or "cheap" epic companions around 5m AD.

    New players would be up youknowwhatcreek without a paddle, and leave the game quickly in the end...

    But there would also be a clear winner in this scenario - AD/Gold sellers would return to this game in droves, since they could finally generate limitless AD, snatch up any good item from the Auction House and sell it for real money directly. Hell, they could even create their own "DLC" packs and sell them for less then the real packs from the ZEN shop cost.

    Anyway, there're better ways to help new players and encourage all players to spend (more) money on the game.
    Post edited by regenerde on
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  • huijianhuijian Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Feedback Overview
    Currently in neverwinter, most of the item & gear rewards from campaigns and level progression quests are obsolete and not particularly useful to players. Because of this players are often left feeling disappointed by the reward from quests. As a result players find themselves skipping alot of the quests & zones because the rewards are not worth the time & effort. Maps, such as pirates skyhold, mount hotenow, vellosk, helms hold, ebon downs, tower district, the chasm, and icespire peak are some examples. Also, aside from the boons, all rewards from campaigns except for undermountain and avernus is no longer relevant to players. For example there is no reason to play Barovia hunts since the free set of gear from starting undermountain campaign is higher quality than anything Barovia has to offer. Players are also starved for gold during mid to high level game progression.

    Feedback Goal
    The goal of my proposal is twofold. First to make much of the "legacy" campaign & quest rewards more relevant to all players. Secondly is to reinvigorate the rewards for much of this "optional" content, and create incentive to play. Hopefully this will make much of the storyline driven areas of the game, as well as content on "legacy" campaigns more attractive to players of all levels. I do want to mention that Sybella's legacy campaign system is already a huge leap in this direction and is fantastic addition.

    Feedback Functionality
    First and foremost we need to make some of the "legacy" campaigns (EE/Maze/UD/ToD/DR/Shar) available at lower levels, and of course rescale the zone contents accordingly. We also need to lower the player level requirements on some of the "legacy" lvl.70 artifact sets which can be obtained through those campaigns but are no longer useful at lvl.80. Therefore the player will get more use out of the items they obtain through the campaigns rather refining and using for 10 levels and discarding.
    The droprate for items required to complete Tyranny of Dragons boons (Haarl's Treatise on Dragonkind, Breyer's Draconic Investigations & Incantations of the Dragon Queen) is far too low, resulting in players having to spend hundreds of thousands of AD to purchase them from the Auction House.
    Additionally, upon completion of quests, we could give players a choice of rewards (like in STO) so if the player already has the quest's unique reward item or its an obsolete item, they can choose Gold, AD or RP. So in addition to adding incentive for new players, this will also add replay value to many of the storyline maps for high level players who are backtracking.

    Finally crafting is not worth the cost. Gold spent on both collecting the materials as well as crafting components is not equal to the value of the final product. The time and effort spent on grinding guild marks to buy explorer scrolls to collect the necessary materials for masterwork is not proportionate to the quality of the masterwork items. Adjustments to the costs of crafting and the overall quality of endgame crafted gear need to be made.

    Risks & Concerns
    The main concern I see with selectable rewards is the potential for abuse or farming gold/ad to sell on 3rd party websites. To prevent this I suggest implementing a daily limit or diminishing rewards for selectable quest rewards, much like the rewards for random queues.
    Post edited by huijian on
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User



    I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.

    At some point you will allways be in a situation where your investment wont worth the upgrade or simply you are maxed in combat like lot of people is now. You can invest in a new character, mastercraft or your own guild, transmutes, etc.

    Unless you create a system where the progression could be infinite, you will allways get there. And infinite progression wont happen in NW, 100%.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User



    I'm not saying that everybody has to have it, what I'm saying is that the only thing left after a certain point could not be a slow crawl, gathering AD to have negligible upgrades of your performance. If jumping from rank 14 to 15 would give you say 2k power more then it would have a better ratio between investment and return.

    At some point you will allways be in a situation where your investment wont worth the upgrade or simply you are maxed in combat like lot of people is now. You can invest in a new character, mastercraft or your own guild, transmutes, etc.

    Unless you create a system where the progression could be infinite, you will allways get there. And infinite progression wont happen in NW, 100%.
    But progress should feel meaningful. Each chunk of progress should be something you feel, maybe not in-game but at least looking at your character sheet. There clearly is a ceiling at any time, but you should not feel like Achilles trying to kill the turtle.
    It's the difference between how Neverwinter was in the beginning, when every progress could be felt, and what it is becoming lately, a kind of oriental-style grindy game.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
This discussion has been closed.