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The Maths of the new Random Queue System

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  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    @asterdahl here is a great way to improve the random Q system.

    Random Level Q: Players level 70 and above do not earn bonus RAD.
    Random Intermediate Q: Players level 80 do not earn bonus RAD.
    Random Advance Q: Players level 80 get additional 7500 more RAD per a day when they run this andHealers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 5000 AD per a day.
    Random Expert Q: Players level 80 get additional 10000 more RAD per a day when they run this and Healers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 10000 AD per a day.

    This would encourage players level 80 to run RAQ and REQ. It would encourage players to jump onto a healer/tank to get an additional 15K AD (does not need refinement) per a day. If needed we could bump that 15k to 25K to entice more players to run support roles.

    That is how I would solve this issue. I would also lower the AD for the Random Leveling and Intermediate as some players will find ways to abuse all four Q's. IMO if you are level 80 and are 20K IL or higher you should't be bothering with RLQ or RIQ.

    I know if you did this I would consider playing my healer again, though that is only consider. In all honesty I don't see myself playing my healer, though my tank I would play again.


    FYI....this is a joke, its not meant to be taken seriously....

    Post edited by mebengalsfan#9264 on
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    lantern22 said:

    > @lantern22 said:

    > Looks like they are trying to provide incentives for more tanks and healers at end game, and forcing those requirements into the lower Random Queues to enforce it and then hoping people will progress through to end game.

    >

    > There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy.

    >

    > Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals.

    >

    > Tank is less <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but still.



    NW post-Mod 15

    DC Heal experience:

    Pray.

    Watch bars.

    Nothing?

    Okay. Pray. Pray.

    Tank is hurt! HEAL!

    Oh. He took a potion.

    Nevermind.

    He's fine.

    Pray.

    Watch HP bars.

    Ooh. Big AoE coming.

    DPS isn't dodging?

    YES! Finally.

    Boom! He's hurt!

    HEAL! HEAL!

    Alriiight... he's fine now...

    Pray. Pray...



    Rinse and repeat.

    zzzzzzzzzz

    lol, that just about nails it. But I think you missed a couple of actions


    Pray.
    OK divinity bar is full. Okay use crappy at-will for a while
    . . . . . . . .

    Watch HP bars.
    Ooh. Big AoE coming.
    DPS isn't dodging?
    YES! Finally.
    Boom! He's dead!
    better go Rez
    Pray.

    Jokes aside tho, Took's description just brilliantly sums up how boring it is
    You both forgot something.....

    Zzzzz! Zzzz! Zzzz!

    HAMSTER need to pay attention, I should not fall asleep, oh wait if the players use a potion or health stone I'm not all that important.


    Mod 15: If I missed a buff I heard about it. In mod 16 the few times I healed I didn't hear anyone complain about the my lack of heals when I fell asleep; instead they said its ok, it was on me I was standing in the red.

    Seriously cleric healing is extremely boring.
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    Situation is actually (from a design perspective) even worse:

    Step 1: Spend years showing everyone the only thing you need to complete a queue is some DPS, plus DPS, plus more DPS.
    Step 2: Spend years making OP stats, nerfing others and unbalancing classes to the point that tanks, healers and 'others' (control wizard anyone?) are basically told "You're not wanted for this run unless you can buff the DPS".
    Step 3: Remove all the buffs and bonuses that support classes previously provided, and saddle them with dumb mechanics.
    Step 4: Wait for everyone to stop playing support classes.
    Step 5: Force all random queues to have 2 support classes in order to run.
    Step 6: Profit?

    It seems like you're the one of the few that understands the mechanics a business needs to make to make profit.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
    > @asterdahl here is a great way to improve the random Q system.
    >
    > Random Level Q: Players level 70 and above do not earn bonus RAD.
    > Random Intermediate Q: Players level 80 do not earn bonus RAD.
    > Random Advance Q: Players level 80 get additional 7500 more RAD per a day when they run this andHealers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 5000 AD per a day.
    > Random Expert Q: Players level 80 get additional 10000 more RAD per a day when they run this and Healers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 10000 AD per a day.
    >
    > This would encourage players level 80 to run RAQ and REQ. It would encourage players to jump onto a healer/tank to get an additional 15K AD (does not need refinement) per a day. If needed we could bump that 15k to 25K to entice more players to run support roles.
    >
    > That is how I would solve this issue. I would also lower the AD for the Random Leveling and Intermediate as some players will find ways to abuse all four Q's. IMO if you are level 80 and are 20K IL or higher you should't be bothering with RLQ or RIQ.
    >
    > I know if you did this I would consider playing my healer again, though that is only consider. In all honesty I don't see myself playing my healer, though my tank I would play again.

    Sorry to say, terrible idea. The reason the queue system was set up was to help lower level players that couldn't get into certain dungeons because not enough people were running them.

    Here you suggest to take 2 of the queues and give nothing to s level 80 toon for running them. Guess what happens then, those new players sit in those queues waiting forever since there isn't enough people to get them to pop on a quick enough timeframe.

    The easiest solution would have been to move the 1 or 2 skirmishes that people struggled on into a higher queue, and make those specific queues require the trinity set up.

    Instead we get this hamster mess, where a stupid CTA event needs a trinity set up. Thankfully that can be solo'd in a private queue.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,455 Arc User
    In addition to average wait times it would be very interesting to see median wait times and longest wait time.
  • dragovf82dragovf82 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I I have begin to play a healer warlock just for fun, it is at lv 73 with 13.4k item level.
    In this role is very simple to enter on queue for CTA.
    what i note is that most of player that enter in this event are like bulls on charge when see red area. this attitude generate an anomaly pressure to the healer (i've no time to regenerate sparks between battles).
    Another problem that i've noted is the lost of the sparks if you go to near death (even with soul forged enchant) that preclude the possibility to heal the party creating a chain deaths.(and sometimes some insult...)

    So, to try to get a conclusion, CTA with this difficulty is for sure more challenging and more fun but create a toxic ambient in the comunity with frequent rage.
    I belive that if the scaling was a little less heavy more players will can enjoy with this grinding feast.
  • caldochaud#4880 caldochaud Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    @asterdahl here is a great way to improve the random Q system.

    Random Level Q: Players level 70 and above do not earn bonus RAD.
    Random Intermediate Q: Players level 80 do not earn bonus RAD.
    Random Advance Q: Players level 80 get additional 7500 more RAD per a day when they run this andHealers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 5000 AD per a day.
    Random Expert Q: Players level 80 get additional 10000 more RAD per a day when they run this and Healers and Tanks getting an account bonus of 10000 AD per a day.

    This would encourage players level 80 to run RAQ and REQ. It would encourage players to jump onto a healer/tank to get an additional 15K AD (does not need refinement) per a day. If needed we could bump that 15k to 25K to entice more players to run support roles.

    That is how I would solve this issue. I would also lower the AD for the Random Leveling and Intermediate as some players will find ways to abuse all four Q's. IMO if you are level 80 and are 20K IL or higher you should't be bothering with RLQ or RIQ.

    I know if you did this I would consider playing my healer again, though that is only consider. In all honesty I don't see myself playing my healer, though my tank I would play again.

    Wow! That's totally mind-blowing! What a great way...

    To completely kill the game. (/facepalm)

    How so?

    Not everybody level 70 and up have the IL to properly run let alone unlock Advanced and Expert Queues. (I sure as HAMSTER don't!) Earning RAD to upgrade is literally essential to character growth unless Legendary gear and enchantments miraculously starts dropping game-wide to speed player upgrades. Thus if players are going to be punished for not queuing up for Advanced and Expert content, that will be it. That will officially be the end of Neverwinter. Players will just leave this game and go elsewhere.

    And just a crazy question thrown out as a bonus: What is to stop players from initially queuing up as Tanks and Healers only to head to the nearest camp-fire to switch their load-outs back to DPS?

    Forcing players to play a role they don't like/aren't comfortable with/don't find fun will only serve to drive away players (potential paying customers) and hurt your bottom line
    "Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    By switching the system to 3/1/1 on Skirmishes, the Devs are falling into a dangerous precedent.
    Unless they are so dangerously low on players that making failure an obsolete concept for new players for fear of losing them, what happens when those players hit L80 and 20K and find the harder stuff... TOO hard?

    Failure is part of the game and should be a part of playing content on a risk/reward basis.

    Obviously none of us have the hard data the devs have on the success/failure rates, and can only rely on our own anecdotal experience. But I would have thought there must be a Hell of a lot of people failing this stuff to warrant a change that literally impacts everyone using the RQ system. (For the most part this impact is a severe limitation and a fairly big negative move.)

    I just don't see, or hear about, such a massive problem in this area. Not beyond the odd complaint, and if Cryptic changed the game because of "the odd complaint" we'd have unlimited RAD refinement, 2000 free Zen a month for anyone with VIP, Salvage would be back, and doubled, everyone would get a token once per week to upgrade any companion to Legendary, the Enchants Exchange would be permanent (and Unbound) and Lifesteal would be back... and better.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    (Did this eat my comment again... Seriously, If I wrote this many posts already, do you think I'm coming back to spam :D)
    asterdahl said:

    And telling people if you don't like the waot time switch to your alt role, is what makes this community so toxic at times.

    I mentioned that this was an option, and that even without switching equipment, in the leveling queue you can easily perform the healing and tanking roles. But I also stated very clearly that you don't have to switch. Regardless of whether you would like to switch, you will see the community as a whole adjust, with those who don't mind playing those roles trying them out more. We're already seeing this, yesterday we saw the number of tanks in queue actually rise over the DPS by ratio, meaning the tanks had a higher average wait time for a while. And that was before the role bonus was introduced.
    That is the case because the role bonus isn't worth it, 100k RAD is easily capped, and everybody wants to just get their RQs over with for the day - so whoever has some fitting alt will jump on it and run around firing whatever they have slotted.
    However - I have a DC, a SW, an OP. I can use them for RLQ or RIQ. Is there any incentive to get them ready for harder content?
    No.
    There is no incentive to get through everything I did on my main dps again, like spending millions of AD on stuff I already bought but cannot use because its bound to my dps. For what, so I can play something I don't like so my guildies can have fun?
    Maybe for half of the RAQ dungs, but CR, Codg, Tong? No. Really. No.

    Maybe that class reroll token people wanted pre/early M16 could take care of that, but buying all that stuff again, running all that content again, getting used to whatever this healing is now, for some peanut AD and what, the grand experience of heal-o-bot-ing the classes I'd rather play? For what, RNG drops in endgame and semi-endgame content... no, not really.

    Also, if you think you are introducing Tank/Healer roles early, you are missing the real game situation.
    There is next to no healing and tanking in most of the early queues, especially with new players. Its just wasted dps which results in longer dungeon running for inferior rewards. It's not needed. Group play is not needed. The difference between RLQ/RIQ and RAQ couldn't be bigger. Most people I ran RLQ with lately were new to the game, and whether I play on new alts or my main and whether or not I am waiting on them, there is no time, no will, no incentive to start tanking. Healing maybe, but only because they are on healing spec and thats just what you do to fill the time. Why would anybody go out of their way to "properly" do an easy dungeon for some seals you don't need (even for new players who get told in most guilds to just lvl to 80 in whatever gear and go do Undermountain) and AD that are really not worth it, when its just too easy not do it?
    And no, don't make it harder or scale us even more, cause then ppl will just not run it anymore, and the new players will be running that messed up situation alone.

    On a second note: Enforcing this stuff because some dungeons/skirms were undoable without it is a very easy-peasy way to do things, isn't it? Not having to actually looking at bank heist and why it is failing and instead enforcing a tank and a healer present is of course easier.
    It worked well before M16. I don't remember a failed bank heist back then, and when it failed once then a simple explanation on how those HAMSTER green orbs work was enough to do it.
    It has to fail now because suddenly people forgot how to do it without support, of course. ;)

    (Edit for the sarcasm.)

    - bye bye -
  • grrowler#0622 grrowler Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    asterdahl said:



    We are absolutely not against providing challenging content. However, when the content is only challenging because the random queue haphazardly put together a group that simply can't complete the content because the required roles are not present, that is something that we would like to avoid.

    Once you reach level 80, you won't be in difficult content where your group is failing because it matched 4 healers and 1 dps because those 5 people just happened to queue at the same time; or 5 DPS, etc. We believe that in terms of preparing players for endgame, getting used to the game's fundamental group composition will be more beneficial than dying because no healer was present.


    personally, I like that the current queue system encouraged me to try out a healer build which I had never done before.

    but I do not think the queue system should require this 'trinity' role ratio.

    maybe the queue system could automatically have preference to group people into a trinity ratio from the queue pool, or even have a disclaimer/warning that would allow you to opt out/bypass the 'trinity' role ratio ("it is recommended for this queue to have 1 tank and 1 healer present; do you want to wait for these roles to be filled?").

    it is probably the case that the system will normalize over time with people getting used to these requirements, but I just feel in a way that a % of us are being forced to play roles that we are not used to.

    (again, for me - it is ok, I am not very good dps although it is the role that I preferred. maybe switching to healing role will turn out to be better for me in the end. I just feel sorry for others that are being herded out to fulfill healer/tank roles rather than their preferred)
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    We are absolutely not against providing challenging content. However, when the content is only challenging because the random queue haphazardly put together a group that simply can't complete the content because the required roles are not present, that is something that we would like to avoid.

    Once you reach level 80, you won't be in difficult content where your group is failing because it matched 4 healers and 1 dps because those 5 people just happened to queue at the same time; or 5 DPS, etc. We believe that in terms of preparing players for endgame, getting used to the game's fundamental group composition will be more beneficial than dying because no healer was present.

    I get what you mean, but when did Skirmishes suddenly NEED "required roles"?
    And why?

    I see how this could become a circular argument, but if, for instance "Manycoins" is proving difficult for low IL L80 toons in RIQ, why not bump up its required IL and use the same separation algorithm you use on character levels in the Leveling Queue, and filter out the ILs below its requirement?
    Frankly, if they've spent the couple of months required to complete the AI campaign to the point where they have unlocked MBH, (I don't want to sound like I'm level shaming here, but...) I'd expect a higher IL than the 1300 required, and enough savvy to at least COMPLETE the queue, if not trot out with a Gold every time. Unless something changed while I wasn't looking it remains account locked and only unlocks on a character by character basis, right?

    Likewise, rather than forcing everyone on RLQ to have to wait for a 3/1/1, set a required IL for MOTH, and DL, and up the IL req for IG. So those struggling with those queues remain in the 3/1/1 leveling Dungeons till they are ready to make the step up to Skirmishes?

    Unless I'm missing something, and would be grateful if you could explain what that is, that would allow other players to continue to drop into a Random Queue, continue to get PoM or TotDG with a gang of DPS, continue to finish it in a timely fashion, grab their daily RAD Bonus and quickly go away about their business.

    The new solution... Mr Spock would be very confused by it, though Jim Kirk would say "To Hell with the needs of the many..." blow up a planet, kill some Klingons and save his chum."
    (Hold on, which ARC Forum am I on again?)
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    On another point, and I don't know how many people this applies to, I DO have a Cleric Healer alt (18K and never likely to get much higher...) who I occasionally run through RQs simply because that Toon always has loads of Bonus RAD in her pool, so it's a straight +50% every time I run on her.
    But...

    When queuing, and this probably goes against the ethos of the system, I never join unless "Healer" is showing as the Bonus "Needed" Role. I figure that way, I'm going to be waiting just as long, whether I join the queue or not, but at least that way I score Bonus AD...
    Is that wrong of me?
    I don't know how it might help if the bonus was a flat "Support" bonus? Or whether that would just cause outcry from angry DDers?
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    Yes the endless cycle of healing and channeling divinity is boring, but there's usually no reason to play that way in the two lowest queues.

    My dc slots a cheap healing encounter - or maybe Exaltation instead if the team doesn't look like they need healing. I slot the same companion bonuses that my Arbiter uses. Between Daunting Light, Geas, and at wills, I can usually build up a decent amount of threat to concentrate mobs in one spot. That makes everybody happy, and keeping Anointed Army coming makes them outright cheerful.

    As for the scoreboard - who cares, but with a decent dc in the low content, everyone scores higher than usual (except the dc and the leech). It's a smoother run for everyone, and things die faster.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User

    When queuing, and this probably goes against the ethos of the system, I never join unless "Healer" is showing as the Bonus "Needed" Role. I figure that way, I'm going to be waiting just as long, whether I join the queue or not, but at least that way I score Bonus AD...
    Is that wrong of me?
    I don't know how it might help if the bonus was a flat "Support" bonus? Or whether that would just cause outcry from angry DDers?

    I don't see it is wrong. That was almost always how I worked the queues. I figured - If there is no role bonus, they already have a healer lined up and need whatever the role bonus said they needed.
    ~Shia~

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  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    Speaking of leeches, fixing queues, and role requirements, how long is leeching going to continue being a role requirement? That's been going on for the entire life of Neverwinter.
    It's something everyone detests.

    If we're talking about improving players' experience in random queues, that ought to be priority one - not forcing shields and heals on the Cloak Tower.
  • sylar#8756 sylar Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    yeah, i don't do random que's but I do directly que for dungeons I want to play. (Generally tong, but sometimes others) it's well over 30 minutes. sometimes never and I end up just doing something else. it's not too bad if you have a partial group already. but if you try to que solo it's not generally doable

    Please note that Tomb of the Nine Gods is not in the leveling queue. I am only discussing the random queues that have changed in the last patch, which is those random queues which featured skirmishes (as in fact, the skirmishes themselves are what changed by introducing role requirements.)

    Tomb of the Nine Gods and the two higher difficulty random queues have not seen any change in queue times.

    @asterdahl What´s the data on GENERAL number of people doing queues now?
    Did it stay the same as before the enforced trinity?

    Both the number of players queuing and the number of players who are matched and entering content have gone up. Specifically, the number of people solo queuing for the leveling queue went up most significantly, which we were not expecting.

    Of course, the number of players who queue increasing will not reduce the queue times more significantly than the introduction of role restrictions as before the queue would simply pop whenever any 5 players were available. Importantly, wait times are not significant indicators for how many people are actually entering the queue. Wait times are affected more by role ratio than number of players in the queue.

    We do expect that the numbers will trend back to about the same rate as before the changes over the next few weeks, as likely the discussion is potentially causing people to simply try it out for themselves.

    By switching the system to 3/1/1 on Skirmishes, the Devs are falling into a dangerous precedent.
    Unless they are so dangerously low on players that making failure an obsolete concept for new players for fear of losing them, what happens when those players hit L80 and 20K and find the harder stuff... TOO hard?

    We are absolutely not against providing challenging content. However, when the content is only challenging because the random queue haphazardly put together a group that simply can't complete the content because the required roles are not present, that is something that we would like to avoid.

    Once you reach level 80, you won't be in difficult content where your group is failing because it matched 4 healers and 1 dps because those 5 people just happened to queue at the same time; or 5 DPS, etc. We believe that in terms of preparing players for endgame, getting used to the game's fundamental group composition will be more beneficial than dying because no healer was present.
    This is not leading people to try, but to give up, leave as it was before my God, I stay 30 minutes to find a match, and when I think people do not accept, probably because it took so long, but so much that they even forgot and they went on a mission that they can't go out, me and my friends who are relatively young, we were thinking of putting MONEY into the game, but after that it's not worth it, paying to get stronger and not even being able to play is complicated, and at least love god, give diamond bonuses to players going further in these lines is a joke, especially giving almost nothing more than diamonds, i'm honestly about to stop playing after 300 hours of play, it's not worth it, the uprising It's so boring and repetitive at first why doesn't it unlock everything I don't know, do you have to do repetitive missions daily to unlock something? In other words, what was saving was the random and damn dungeons, people are playing heal / tank just to find the line and when they think they DO NOT play that role, they go to the same damage several times and tank first. damage hahaha they just wanna find it faster than good, you nerf your fellow healers and attackers, and now it demands it's kind of ironic, nor does the CTA event ever get around, I've seen a lot of people complain that they just , you messed up the game for those who play alone, which is a good one, maybe the biggest one who knows, looks honestly after waiting half an hour to find a single game I close the game and I will play another game, it is not worth to win so little. I had to comment again, sorry, I went to edit my comment and it disappeared
  • grrowler#0622 grrowler Member Posts: 173 Arc User

    Speaking of leeches, fixing queues, and role requirements, how long is leeching going to continue being a role requirement? That's been going on for the entire life of Neverwinter.
    It's something everyone detests.

    If we're talking about improving players' experience in random queues, that ought to be priority one - not forcing shields and heals on the Cloak Tower.


    I agree with this sentiment most of all. if anything needed to be changed with queues, especially with the CTA's, neverwinter needs to figure out how to deal with leeches. it is so frustrating joining a CTA queue, struggling through it, and then realizing that someone was intentionally afk the entire run, only at the end to start moving to the chest.

  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I wonder if the longer queue times will deter leeches somewhat.
    If it's taking five times longer to queue, think leeches will still be so blasé about being kicked?

    I run into leeches every day now. I've just recently started abandoning queue and taking the leaver penalty whenever the rest of the team knocks down the kick vote. After taking a moment to block and report the offending "player," I pm, Have fun carrying the leech, then I go back to whatever I was doing 'til I can queue again.

    It's not a solution, but I don't feel so aggravated this way. And on the plus side, if the leech happens to be a sociopath, maybe knowing they've irritated another human being will give them the warm and fuzzies, and they can go another day without hurting people irl.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,455 Arc User


    I run into leeches every day now. I've just recently started abandoning queue and taking the leaver penalty whenever the rest of the team knocks down the kick vote. After taking a moment to block and report the offending "player," I pm, Have fun carrying the leech, then I go back to whatever I was doing 'til I can queue again.

    And one thing the leeches do not seem to realize is that the run will take more time because of their non-contribution. They *will* be stuck in the zone until it completes, whether they contribute or not. So they really do not gain much from not contributing.

    While leaving might make you feel better, if you are a dps it is of little consequence as those slots are refilled instantly. Losing tank/heal can hurt a bit more, but since the groups mostly work ok without those in low-level queues it usually is no big deal either.

    The best way to deal with leeches is to votekick, but after calling out the leech in /party.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Votekicks don't even work 50% of the time. You only need one sympathizer to shoot it down, and sometimes that person simply doesn't notice the leech. Some leeches are smarter than others. The ones with end-game gear that can take a beating just park their character in the middle of things. It's easier for their behavior to go unnoticed, and their pet gets them onto the scoreboard.

    The only consequence of leaving that I care about is that I'm no longer being taken advantage of by someone I despise. Sometimes I get a disparaging tell sent after me from one of the enablers, and I go right ahead and block him too.
  • djnasty93djnasty93 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    sobi#1980 said:

    Situation is actually (from a design perspective) even worse:

    Step 1: Spend years showing everyone the only thing you need to complete a queue is some DPS, plus DPS, plus more DPS.
    Step 2: Spend years making OP stats, nerfing others and unbalancing classes to the point that tanks, healers and 'others' (control wizard anyone?) are basically told "You're not wanted for this run unless you can buff the DPS".
    Step 3: Remove all the buffs and bonuses that support classes previously provided, and saddle them with dumb mechanics.
    Step 4: Wait for everyone to stop playing support classes.
    Step 5: Force all random queues to have 2 support classes in order to run.
    Step 6: Profit?

    It seems like you're the one of the few that understands the mechanics a business needs to make to make profit.

    Yea.. no buffs mean that every 1k power makes people mad untill the begin shop zen to convert in Astral Diamonds... error its done by Dev cause if you want to make game easier you should put a buffer only path, so dps got his buffer and he cant escape from buffing you because he is in buff build (i remember a lot of gf coming as buffers witouth reload speed to buff every 3/5 seconds, useless buffers)
    self dps its cool cause no need strong buffers to let you kill that Avatar of Orcus easily... but.. talk for Hr, Ranger become super easy to play and im thinking that most of people buy accounts...
    We waste so many potions/stone of life in this mod... and we cannot base our profit on dungeon chests its not fair.

    Also YOU bugged all defense pets, lemme think why wait.... oh right! Hp and Defense Mount Emblems are expensive, how i can forgot Profit Maker 2000 the new AI

    30 ppl closed tomm in ALL server PC (console its too easy)

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    I'm going to ask something a bit controversial here, but what the hell.

    I read a lot of comments about how, before sorting anything else out, the devs should "solve the problem of leechers".

    Ok.
    What IS the problem with leechers in low level skirmishes? I'm not saying that there isn't a problem before anyone accuses me of that, I'm asking what makes them a priority over what I would consider more important issues such as getting Queue lead times down to a manageable amount.

    Don't get me wrong, I know it is as annoying as hell when someone just sits there doing nothing and earning the same reward as everyone else, but in my experience in the content we are talking about, the low level Skirmishes, do they make much difference?
    Most PUGs I end up in inevitably have someone who actually seems to resent the presence of the rest of the group and wants to do all the damage themselves anyway. (Usually with an 8' long 3' wide sword that should carry a "may cause seizures" warning.) And they rarely seem to take any longer with or without some lazy twat hanging about doing nothing.

    Is it really more pressing a problem than having to wait extended periods to join a RLQ or RIQ?
    Yes, absolutely, they are a bunch of lazy, good for nothing parasites who are a severe pain in the HAMSTER, but are they a priority for a dev team that is stretched anyway?

    Just to reiterate, I'm NOT making excuses for leechers, or saying there's nothing wrong with what they do. Just offering the suggestion, that they aren't as much of a problem as many other things that the devs may want to deal with first.

    (TBH as annoying as they are, they are still several steps down the ladder after "people who bounce everywhere" which gets on my HAMSTER to the point of fury. It's like running a dungeon with a hyperactive Were-rabbit who forget to take his Ritolin.)
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    My two cents.

    I only play as DC. Sometimes I heal, sometimes I DPS. On queues when I enter without a premade group I tend to prefer entering as DPS.

    The reason is NOT that healing is boring, nor the waiting time or that I want to out-dps people.

    The reason is that when I enter as healer I sometimes get into a group with 3 very bad dpss, and that makes the run slooooooooow. If I enter as DPS I know that at least there will be 1 decent dps (me) so we will make througt it fast.

    I prefer to wait more to enter doing other things and then make the queue fast than enter instantly and then strugling because there is no good dps.

    PD: In the last days I´m being harassed by many people for entering queues as dps-DC, like if it was my responsability for their waiting or something. It´s very shamefull, and if it get some reaction from me is being less like to enter dungeons with random group, and even less as healer. I´m not at your service.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    @asterdahl

    funny how your data on wait times doesn't match up with what people have to say about the wait times, isn't it.

    @asterdahl As he said, definitely, please review your data, people (dps) are waiting wayyyyy more for RLQ.
    Or maybe your data correspond to a mean time taking into account the healer waiting time: if this latter is 1 seconds, of course it reduces artificially the overall waiting time...

    One support character is more than enough for RLQ, changing the requirement to one support only would be a good compromise.

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    PD: In the last days I´m being harassed by many people for entering queues as dps-DC, like if it was my responsability for their waiting or something. It´s very shamefull, and if it get some reaction from me is being less like to enter dungeons with random group, and even less as healer. I´m not at your service.

    That's the sort of behaviour that turns people off running Healers.
    Skirmishes don't NEED Healers.

    Too many people conflate "Took too long" "Was hard" or "Didn't get Gold" with "Failed".
    If you meet the requirements for a Skirmish, the onus is on YOU to make sure you have potions, and/or other means of self healing, and the capacity to avoid damage that will kill you if you are on low HP and your potions are on cooldown. Back out of combat for a few seconds, stop drum rolling the monsters and show some self discipline.
    Because if you join a Random Leveling or Intermediate Queue there is a (pretty good) chance of dropping into a Skirmish. It is NOT the responsibility of other players to change THEIR play style to cover your HAMSTER.

    Most capable Clerics don't WANT to play Healer on a Skirmish, because from their point of view, the odds of them landing on a PUG where their services are genuinely needed are slim to non existent.
    Now they HAVE to go Healer to speed up the chance of landing in any content, which ups the odds of them landing in a Skirmish, where 9 times out of 10 they will have absolutely no purpose to serve as most Skirmish groups do NOT need their services as a bloody Healer!!!

    Sorry for continued ranting on this subject, but there are so many more reasons for why this new rule should not be applied than for why it should.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User

    I'm going to ask something a bit controversial here, but what the hell.

    I read a lot of comments about how, before sorting anything else out, the devs should "solve the problem of leechers".

    Ok.
    What IS the problem with leechers in low level skirmishes? I'm not saying that there isn't a problem before anyone accuses me of that, I'm asking what makes them a priority over what I would consider more important issues such as getting Queue lead times down to a manageable amount.

    How about one problem is the cheating when multiple accounts are used to farm AD or manipulate the queue. And another problem is some players getting upset by freeloaders.
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