Class Balancing- When? Is it Actually Being Looked At ?

xavior44
xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
edited September 2019 in General Discussion (PC)
We have waited SO long and we deserve some kind of timeline.. some kind of input from the devs that show this is actually in the works... You say your collecting back-end data.. please share where does this data sits TODAY, what are we looking at for a ROUGH timeline.. Something please.. We have tons of people not being able to even get In a group for Tower of The Mad-Mage because of the CLASS they play... this is wrong on so many levels.. the fact u released the trial before balancing was astonishing to me....
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Comments

  • paulamyo#4926
    paulamyo#4926 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    kangkeok said:

    In my opinion, because of how hard the content is, people are gonna be pedantic even about the slightest difference in performance between classes.

    People´s perception on different dps classes will obviously allways be there. I sometimes get said by some 21K-ish wizard with no good dps equipment and an energon summoned that i´m not a DPS for LoMM because I´m a DC, even when if we enter together I´m probably making like 3 times his damage (as any other good dps will).

    Many people just thinks that a DC can´t DPS, no mather how well builded or how near to BiS the DC is.

    People´s perceptions and prejudices will allways be there, but thats no excuse for not having the classes balanced, an now they are obviously not balanced by a big margin with some classes.
    Post edited by paulamyo#4926 on
  • silverwolf#7884
    silverwolf#7884 Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    I'm not sure that we'd ever be presented with a timeline. The moment there's any delay or slippage and the community would start with the "... but you said it would be done by X date ..." and "... devs are useless ..." etc etc without the community actually having internal knowledge of all the work that the Devs needs to undertake.

    It would be nice to at least have an aspirational time .... something like "we hope before the end of Oct" or something ... we keep raising issues about the class imbalance but we hear very little in response.

    Yeah, I hear about the "people need to know their class" rubbish a lot too. Many have a mindset that's narrow. My DPS Cleric can do a lot of damage but conversely I've seen tanks that couldn't hold any agro if there was anything else nearby that was dealing damage. I once saw a 12k TR pulling agro all the time from a 20k Tank. So the "people need to learn their role" kinda cuts both ways there.

    However as we've all been saying ... if a class has a DPS path, it should be a viable DPS path. Some classes have such poor DPS at the moment *cough* Warlock's *cough* *cough* that they'd have better luck attacking with a bunch of feathers and a pot of honey.
  • nigantar
    nigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    1st: its a sad story that not all dps-classes are on the same level
    but 2nd: im pretty sure that u can do ToMM with a dps-setup like: sw,gwf,dc,hr,tr,cw
  • paulamyo#4926
    paulamyo#4926 Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    agilesto said:

    xavior44 said:

    The fact u released the trial before balancing was astonishing to me....

    This is exactly my thinking. After advertising for 2 mods of class balance where lots of ressources were put on that priority, it turned out the result was the absolute opposite of balancing since classes didn't have the same damage formula. And yet you release the hardest instance where every single dps frame matters when half the dps class can not compete with the others.
    It wouldn't matter that much if it was a new content like LOMM, where you can complete the dungeon no matter what your class is. But it does matter in TOMM.
    +1
  • devilxjk
    devilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    nigantar said:

    1st: its a sad story that not all dps-classes are on the same level
    but 2nd: im pretty sure that u can do ToMM with a dps-setup like: sw,gwf,dc,hr,tr,cw

    where's Fighter? Xd no one love fighter :(

  • nigantar
    nigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    ok...what about a 2-1-7 with dps-setup: sw,gwf,gf,dc,tr,hr,cw ;)
  • devilxjk
    devilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    however companion type slot should change, if i play my fighter i have 1 companion attack slot, so vs "tr" that have 3 attack slot i lose a big ammount of stat, so a 24fighetr vs 24k mage have a different ammount of power, if you balance now the output dmg ,then when power go up it become unbalanced cause fighter will have a better scaling later.

    So my idea is first of all change type companion slot on role, all dps should have 3 companion attack slot,
    if i switch tank they should change into defensive companion slot

    when we all have the same stats, we can effectively balance classes

  • pakatapoes
    pakatapoes Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Healers now is like asking Satan to heal you
  • groo#6243
    groo#6243 Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    When is the change to the damage for the 'unbalanced' dps classes coming in (the multiplicative to additive change)? It will be interesting to see how much difference that makes and if the group synergy changes as a result.
  • aerhythia#3255
    aerhythia#3255 Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    sobi#1980 said:

    I absolutely want TOMM to be a challenge but instead of nerfing TOMM, they should give temporary buffs to the nonperforming dps classes.

    NOTE: I still think that the top 3 dps classes should have the most dps. That's a no brainer but at least let the other dps paths be able to enjoy end game content. If i see sht like a nerf to dps cleric because there are less people going healer, then i am out. This game just needs to bring back the old cleric instead of the heal bot we got now.

    GF were suddenly everywhere when word caught on they do very good burst damage. Most if not every one of the ones I knew (emphasis on knew (past tense)) ran Tact at least occasionally as well. It was never a lost tank for me, instead you got one more versatile GF who actually enjoys playing both roles at least to some extend. The same goes for every class from my experience.

    Classes with 2 DPS paragons will always have an advantage since all powers are made with DPS in mind and they got 2 paragons to choose from.
    hrakh said:

    See, the one problem Cryptic cannot possibly fix is the strange fact that whenever a thread like this pops up, someone will immediately feel the need to go "Nah, class X is fine, I play class X and I am awesome.. bla bla.. paingiver.. bla bla did I mention I am awesome?... bla bla.. no, don't worry, that's not an eclipse, just my ego blocking the light.. bla bla.. did I mention I am awesome?". Problems of balance are not about any individuals experience. It is not that I am not happy for all the people that do not experience the issues. Everyone is welcome to their own personal bubble of awesomeness, but it becomes a problem when people just cannot seem to grasp the simple truth that anecdote does not facts make.

    Single target DPS in LoMM doesn't even really matter that much all things considered, all it does is making bosses last a few seconds less, the DPS check on Boss 1 is a phase change with 1 mob spawning at each edge of the map, Boss 2 boulders have like 1 HP, Boss 3 is getting rid of scorpions and at the end 4 targets at different locations. Damage within 10 - 20 seconds doesn't matter when mimics, scorpions and batteries die within 5. So yes, it's possible to perform more or less well in most content while still lacking, say, 10% or even 50% sustained damage on single target.

    ToMM is sustained single target, phase changes and a lot of shenanigans and the DPS check where you need to be able to deal a certain amount of damage within 30 seconds or less.
  • nigantar
    nigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    hm...so i need dps-gwf and a bit rng-luck for my comp-gear so i can do the arbiter job. think weapons wont make a big difference...if we do a "rainbow-party" run i will post a screenshot. tbh building up a full "non-meta-dps-group" like for example 2xgwf, 2xarbiter, 1xsw and 1xgf would be hard due to the fact that i wont spend that much time on training runs ;)
  • giz#2086
    giz#2086 Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Let's bet how many Wizards we can see in the Cryptic's new streaming running ToMM tomorrow...Or how many Hellbringer, Dreadnought, Arbiter, etc.
  • mentinmindmaker
    mentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    We are basically going to get a more or less full damage situation reset when the new damage formula hits, with all the testing and complaining that will carry with it. Current class dps standings could be more or less void and we start from scratch.

    Any further balancing that might be needed will be behind that.

    There is little reason for 'defensive' classes to complain about the number of defensive vs. offensive slots. There are options for defensive slots that match the offensive slots, so you don't really lose much dps by having more defensive slots.
  • coolgor28#5062
    coolgor28#5062 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    > @mentinmindmaker said:
    > We are basically going to get a more or less full damage situation reset when the new damage formula hits, with all the testing and complaining that will carry with it. Current class dps standings could be more or less void and we start from scratch.
    >
    > Any further balancing that might be needed will be behind that.
    >
    > There is little reason for 'defensive' classes to complain about the number of defensive vs. offensive slots. There are options for defensive slots that match the offensive slots, so you don't really lose much dps by having more defensive slots.

    So you think 10k power and 4% batiri on boss is low loss on tomm when you need any help to beat the timer ? At least change this first and we see the formula when we have even ground.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • coolgor28#5062
    coolgor28#5062 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    > @rotatorkuf said:
    > where is it exactly that barb dps cannot "compete"?
    >
    > i only have the preTOMM content to compare on, but i find a lot of the time i'm outdpsing all other better geared dps classes (except ranger really)....(i notice with 156k power i can usually keep up if not overpass dps classes with 180K+ power)...
    >
    > so i'm curious, what part is missing for barbs for TOMM
    >
    > i find a lot of barbs just don't really know how to be efficient with the encounters/at wills...when i see a barb using sure strike a little part of my soul dies

    Oh that I was saying also before tomm (was doing training runs on preview) you will see when tomm will be live for you how far behind we are. So make a tank loadout to at least see it, I have good people on my guild so I can try dps at least. Speaking a Barbie that can beat 98%(can't beat some beast out there on last boss they do to much damage) of player on lomm.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • finmakin
    finmakin Member Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    ToMM is fun to do in my opinion.

    Fact is that players need to dish out all they have, e.g make their char ready to face this trial before even trying.
    But what is happening here is that the same kind of players are complaining when LoMM came out.. it was not doable, too hard but now running LoMM on daily base (since their char got ready for it, gear wise)..

    ToMM is a real challenge (even for the best geared players) and honestly I am happy about it since the personal achievements is great when you finally managed to beat this boss.

    Key here is (just like LoMM)... learn the friggin mechanics and you will win at the end..
    Get your lazy behind to preview and start learning (and adjusting your char) to what is needed to beat Halaster, make notes and you have someting to work on before you do a attemt on life server.

    ps. this trial needs a dedicated group of people, so no need to complain when a pug que turns out in a disaster.

    /em waves to all everlasting complainers
    Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin
    Puny Tank

    Guildleader of NWLC Alpha
  • xavior44
    xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    finmakin said:

    ToMM is fun to do in my opinion.

    Fact is that players need to dish out all they have, e.g make their char ready to face this trial before even trying.
    But what is happening here is that the same kind of players are complaining when LoMM came out.. it was not doable, too hard but now running LoMM on daily base (since their char got ready for it, gear wise)..

    ToMM is a real challenge (even for the best geared players) and honestly I am happy about it since the personal achievements is great when you finally managed to beat this boss.

    Key here is (just like LoMM)... learn the friggin mechanics and you will win at the end..
    Get your lazy behind to preview and start learning (and adjusting your char) to what is needed to beat Halaster, make notes and you have someting to work on before you do a attemt on life server.

    ps. this trial needs a dedicated group of people, so no need to complain when a pug que turns out in a disaster.

    /em waves to all everlasting complainers </blockqY

    you obviously do not play the under performing dps classes... we know the mechanics but when u can not beat the dps check even with a FULL TEAM with no res sickness.. and u have no wizards or rogues in your party let alone the 4 needed.. GOODLUCK passing the dps check. Please explain how learning mechanics and spending time on test( which alot of us do) will help us under performing dps... you generalized here i was always VS making lotmm easier and i dont want Tomm touched either.. its a class issue not a mechanics issue again. and yes we have a fullstack of debuff artifacts

  • coolgor28#5062
    coolgor28#5062 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    > @finmakin said:
    > ToMM is fun to do in my opinion.
    >
    > Fact is that players need to dish out all they have, e.g make their char ready to face this trial before even trying.
    > But what is happening here is that the same kind of players are complaining when LoMM came out.. it was not doable, too hard but now running LoMM on daily base (since their char got ready for it, gear wise)..
    >
    > ToMM is a real challenge (even for the best geared players) and honestly I am happy about it since the personal achievements is great when you finally managed to beat this boss.
    >
    > Key here is (just like LoMM)... learn the friggin mechanics and you will win at the end..
    > Get your lazy behind to preview and start learning (and adjusting your char) to what is needed to beat Halaster, make notes and you have someting to work on before you do a attemt on life server.
    >
    > ps. this trial needs a dedicated group of people, so no need to complain when a pug que turns out in a disaster.
    >
    > /em waves to all everlasting complainers

    Hey Finn kingslayer here. No you can't beat with learning the mechanic as we have done many times on phaze 3 you have 12.5 min to beat it or dead. If the best geared player changed their main to cw hr and TR or tank then that say something.

    Don't compare it to lomm that we could do it in one hour or in 20 min there was no time limit.

    see you in game.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)

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