> For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
If i am not mistaken there will still be a new campaign coming for all the player to do?
You are indeed mistaken - there is NO new campaign or boons in the new module. There are some intro quests to the new stuff, but no campaign and no new boon points.
hmm ok then i take that back, well no campaign means indeed that there is very little new content for new players. But its very little content in general for a module then, i wouldnt blame it on the trial, rather its cryptic focusing the resources on other games.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
There is new content for all players, new expeditions that drop companion gear. Aside from that though, there have been plenty of modules that focus on the mid (LoMM/CR/TONG etc) and early game (AI) experience, one trial focused on the top end of players is not going to be the end of the world. There does need to be content for all levels of game play, simply for player retention. And for those of you not at that level of gameplay, you now have something to strive for.
In my opinion, the developer did a great job if they split the content into average content and endgame content for the different type of group our community has. People that dislike hardcore content or casuals that progress at slower rate will still have their content placed in random que (REQ, RAQ etc ). While those hardcore player gets to play their hardcore content in a separate que. It doesn't hinder people's daily RAD earning or force something difficult into peoples throat by placing it in peoples daily run. In short, it doesn't messes with average player content while giving end gamer what they want. So I guess its all good here.
The only thing that concern me here is now that the developer split player group up between average player and hardcore lover, they need to satisfy both group in a fairly manner. That's pretty much gonna split up their resources for both group. So the question is, will our future content be watered down or will the developer choose to satisfy both group alternately every mod?
Have there been any info about two versions of the Tower of the Mad Mage trial?
I have a hard time seeing that any company would allow so many man-hours used on content that will only be played/completed by a tiny minority of the games poulation.
An Epic version like the one currently on preview, and a regular version scaled down to maybe a slightly higher difficulty than LOMM currently sits. This would be a lot better for the game as a whole. Players can experience the new content, while training for the Epic version.
Loot in the regular version should obviously not be of the same level as the Epic version, but that's easily tuned in the loot-tables.
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
I have a simple question, since this topic goes about ToMM Can you show me where the PvP version is of ToMM.. please enlightnen the players in a PvE based game. Nice try to turn topic, but don't think it will work..
You should probably try actually reading people's posts ... it only hurts for a little while really.
I only pointed out that this module we are getting 2 pieces of new "Content" - A trial (ToMM) for the upper 1% of the PvEers, and a new PvP map for the 1% of the game that still PvPs. So what does the other 98% do??
And if you think a new map in PvP will solve all of PvP's problems and get people to PvP again, you are dreaming ... PvP needs help at a far more fundamental level than this.
Actually I have been reading a lot trough the years and all I see is that there is always a very minor group complaining and whining about PvP content in a PvE based game (you see this in every PvE based MMO).. People will laugh at me when people like me are starting to whine about PvE content in a PvP based game like ESO.. Thats my point, and talk about reading... By my best knowledge is this topic about ToMM and NOT PvP content..
During last nights stream they made it clear to me that the vast majority of the player base will not be able to do the new trial. That only bis players can do it and as of yet no bis players have succeeded(They bragged about this fact). This means that normal players will need to grind ME's for the rest of the year and that is all they can do. I really think if this is true it will be catastrophic to the already shrinking player base. No content for the large majority of players for 2 mods is not smart (since many cannot do LOMM yet)
I feel like all these new dungeons have too many 1 shot kill mechanics, really makes it suck playing a healer amd missing all those opportunities to actually do your role and heal, because when the mechanic kills people instantly then you just look worthless
The new dungeon is not intended for your average player, it is designed from the ground up for your 0.1% and it can be beaten. Furthermore, the healer does have an essential role and can heal through mechanics. I have never had this much fun playing Neverwinter, please do not take it away from me.
I'm speaking in general about some of the mechanics currently "in effect" I personally haven't tried to heal on ToMM I tried once as dps because someone asked me to join. But there are many mechanics currently which just kill you,
Castle Ravenloft theft of vitae from sisters in stahd, tank is supposed to take aggo, but 2nd sister aggroes whoever she wants, in my groups this is always me, the healer. I can dodge it a few times but usually die once at least to it, and if a dps has aggro theres nothing i can do to heal them because its like 20 million dmg or something absurd.
Lanterns exploding at strahd fight are a instant kill to anyone without 300k+ max hp (when scaled) and decent defensive stats.
Fangbreaker Island Hypothermia kills the person who gets it no matter what in my experience.
Master Spellplague Cavern The curse in from Nostura can be cured often, but a lot of the time she never even does the stun to remove it. so you just spam heals until they aren't enough and the person dies.
Cradle of the Death God Invisible knock up 1 shot kill in Elevator, cord phase and even during push/pull.
Lair of the Mad Mage
still sometimes even when fully healed people die at cocoon.
I mainly play as a healer and I'm just saying it sucks to miss all these opportunities to actually do something besides be a free health stone with no cooldown.
Apperantly what youre saying here is a result of lacking the needed knowledge of mechanics…
Castle Ravenloft, A hard dungeon but doable… There is a reason that tank pulls Sister to far left and the person with book goes to the far right.... Exploding Lantarns… Just make sure that youre avoiding red's and with the massive AoE… Well, placing a Paladins sigil, Hollowed ground and big heals helps a lot (considered that players have decent stats to begin with).
FBI, Same thing, Avoid red's and don't stand where tank is fighting… I see too many times in the Drufi fight (as example) that player don't group up when its needed to share the damage (they simply die).
MSP, The curse can be cured by one way, and that is to get dazed on purpose by her eye… The curse is doing more and more damage each tick, you cannot outheal it... Just let them die and preserve your divinity for those who are not affected (read who knows the mechanics).
Cradle, That was a bug, and should be fixed by now… I have done recently some run and didn't experience it.. Gravemaster type of mobs are casting this and is visible by a huge red circle (or blueish / purple one).
LoMM, Cocooned players die (even full healed) when players keep damaging the boss (from the start a player gets it till cocoon explodes)..
So, what I read about this is that there is a severe lack of knowledge of mechanics and a lack of proper builds because ppl are focussing too much of raising their Ilevel without working properly on their stats in their race to become eligble for a dungeon to get their hands on fat loot. These people even entering these dungeons without scroll's and calling out for help when they die..
Bottomline is that people have been spoiled way too long and I am very happy that they have removed that cursed LS, so people are finally forced to start learning the mechanics.
Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin Tank/ Healer
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I feel like all these new dungeons have too many 1 shot kill mechanics, really makes it suck playing a healer amd missing all those opportunities to actually do your role and heal, because when the mechanic kills people instantly then you just look worthless
The new dungeon is not intended for your average player, it is designed from the ground up for your 0.1% and it can be beaten. Furthermore, the healer does have an essential role and can heal through mechanics. I have never had this much fun playing Neverwinter, please do not take it away from me.
I'm speaking in general about some of the mechanics currently "in effect" I personally haven't tried to heal on ToMM I tried once as dps because someone asked me to join. But there are many mechanics currently which just kill you,
Castle Ravenloft theft of vitae from sisters in stahd, tank is supposed to take aggo, but 2nd sister aggroes whoever she wants, in my groups this is always me, the healer. I can dodge it a few times but usually die once at least to it, and if a dps has aggro theres nothing i can do to heal them because its like 20 million dmg or something absurd.
Lanterns exploding at strahd fight are a instant kill to anyone without 300k+ max hp (when scaled) and decent defensive stats.
Fangbreaker Island Hypothermia kills the person who gets it no matter what in my experience.
Master Spellplague Cavern The curse in from Nostura can be cured often, but a lot of the time she never even does the stun to remove it. so you just spam heals until they aren't enough and the person dies.
Cradle of the Death God Invisible knock up 1 shot kill in Elevator, cord phase and even during push/pull.
Lair of the Mad Mage
still sometimes even when fully healed people die at cocoon.
I mainly play as a healer and I'm just saying it sucks to miss all these opportunities to actually do something besides be a free health stone with no cooldown.
There are tells for every single mechanic and they are fairly obvious, with plenty of time to react to them. We finished the trial already and it is because we know what is going on. For heatwave for example, he says, "how do you feel about warm weather" about 3 seconds before it occurs, the edges of your screen turns red and he holds his hands together and they are surrounded by fire. That is 3 different ways of seeing he is going to cast it. For Whiteout he says, "Bundle up for the cold front" and starts the call of winter animation. Every single one of his attacks are very well telegraphed, I recommend recording your gameplay then watching it back, to see what is going on. Or watch 1 of our runs of the trial, my PoV is here:
I feel like all these new dungeons have too many 1 shot kill mechanics, really makes it suck playing a healer amd missing all those opportunities to actually do your role and heal, because when the mechanic kills people instantly then you just look worthless
The new dungeon is not intended for your average player, it is designed from the ground up for your 0.1% and it can be beaten. Furthermore, the healer does have an essential role and can heal through mechanics. I have never had this much fun playing Neverwinter, please do not take it away from me.
I'm speaking in general about some of the mechanics currently "in effect" I personally haven't tried to heal on ToMM I tried once as dps because someone asked me to join. But there are many mechanics currently which just kill you,
Castle Ravenloft theft of vitae from sisters in stahd, tank is supposed to take aggo, but 2nd sister aggroes whoever she wants, in my groups this is always me, the healer. I can dodge it a few times but usually die once at least to it, and if a dps has aggro theres nothing i can do to heal them because its like 20 million dmg or something absurd.
Lanterns exploding at strahd fight are a instant kill to anyone without 300k+ max hp (when scaled) and decent defensive stats.
Fangbreaker Island Hypothermia kills the person who gets it no matter what in my experience.
Master Spellplague Cavern The curse in from Nostura can be cured often, but a lot of the time she never even does the stun to remove it. so you just spam heals until they aren't enough and the person dies.
Cradle of the Death God Invisible knock up 1 shot kill in Elevator, cord phase and even during push/pull.
Lair of the Mad Mage
still sometimes even when fully healed people die at cocoon.
I mainly play as a healer and I'm just saying it sucks to miss all these opportunities to actually do something besides be a free health stone with no cooldown.
There are tells for every single mechanic and they are fairly obvious, with plenty of time to react to them. We finished the trial already and it is because we know what is going on. For heatwave for example, he says, "how do you feel about warm weather" about 3 seconds before it occurs, the edges of your screen turns red and he holds his hands together and they are surrounded by fire. That is 3 different ways of seeing he is going to cast it. For Whiteout he says, "Bundle up for the cold front" and starts the call of winter animation. Every single one of his attacks are very well telegraphed, I recommend recording your gameplay then watching it back, to see what is going on. Or watch 1 of our runs of the trial, my PoV is here:
Great explanatory vid. I see in this video a few important things going on with this group (I joined a few times)
1. Commitment as group to learn the mechanics by trying over and over again. 2. Self dicipline of the DPS group to hold themselves not to get too triggerhappy and leave the aggro control by the tanks (where it must be) since they are capable to deal with the incoming damage… The race for paingivers chart is not important and actually an useless thing which brings people to take insane actions to get on top... Result as group is what counts here. 3. The use of voice communication is a great thing in this fight where only 3 players should speak, the leader for giving directions and the two tanks for calling out the stack's to take over the aggro..
Bottomline is that people should not complain that it is too hard (difficulty, mechanics ect,ect) but work on their character to get the needed stats capped (note. itemlevel is secondary in this case) before you even take an attemt to face this boss. There will be new dungeons in future too which might be more doable for players who havent reached this required level yet.
Hence, when I read some posts on forum then I get sometimes the impression that they are skipping quite some dungeons by going to try this content... These players should take a good look in a mirror before they are posting things like its too hard, too difficult ect. in a attempt to persuade dev's to lowering down the difficulty…
My gratulations goes to this 'Elitist' 'bis' group for a job well done
Personally, I agree with one of the comments that due to short cuts in the game (vistani and undermountain free gear and other bonuses) new players can and will skip a lot of the older content whilst heading up to level cap. The trouble then is that there's no real incentive to go back and do that content.
Yes, there are the boon points, but realistically, where's the incentive for new plays to go back and grind those out? From your free gear, you can build up seals of the crown and/or seals of the undermountain (whatever they're called) and get your stats up much quicker by replacing gear. Also, the undermountain campaign gives you a few boon points along the way anyway. If new mods continue to cater for newer players in that way, why would you ever need to bother with older contents for boons? You might not be BiS, but you wont be far behind. Those players dedicated to being BiS, won't be the ones on the forums complaining, they will just get on and grind out everything they can anyway.
I read a reddit post the other day where someone was complaining that it isn't easy to get to 20k IL and that it could only be end gamers that claimed it was. That kind of post feels like an inevitability with providing shortcuts to get to higher level content more easily. Rather than players coming into the game with an expectation of having to work through all the content progressively to slowly improve their characters to the top tier (which in itself gives a better sense of pride in your character as you've earned every stat and every bit of equipment it has), players basically set up a new character, wiz through to level 70 and then are able to bypass large chunks of the game to end up pretty close to end game status and of course, expect that to be the norm for them.
To me it highlights the financial influence on the game. The desperate desire to try and please everyone in order to keep them putting their hands in their pockets. The game making some kind of sense ultimately comes second. Almost like they have taken D&D and tried to create a casual but addictive Candy Crush style game around it.
FBI, Same thing, Avoid red's and don't stand where tank is fighting… I see too many times in the Drufi fight (as example) that player don't group up when its needed to share the damage (they simply die).
MSP, The curse can be cured by one way, and that is to get dazed on purpose by her eye… The curse is doing more and more damage each tick, you cannot outheal it... Just let them die and preserve your divinity for those who are not affected (read who knows the mechanics).
Drufi's hypothermia is bugged as of Mod 16. Grouping up won't save you.
Regarding MSP, Nostura's curse shouldn't just be a basically-guaranteed death, especially since scrolls give you revive sickness now. It feels cheap, especially since there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent her from using it.
It's not a guaranteed death. The moment that curse is on you, you need to be watching for her to call out "Be still!" and purposely look at her when she uses her 360 petrify eye. That cleanses the curse and shortens your time petrified. If you miss 1, maybe 2 of those eyes if you have a good healer helping you, then you have to think about burning a scroll. And if you see someone with the curse on them, stay away. Hopefully they would move away themselves, but you never know.
The only time the curse is 100% death rate is if you have Curse on you when she starts finale, or someone with the curse then decides to share it with you then. Which, s--- happens and you can't help that sometimes.
Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
LoMM, Cocooned players die (even full healed) when players keep damaging the boss (from the start a player gets it till cocoon explodes)..
Definitely not my experience. Most times in my party, people keep attacking the boss and the cocooned player doesn't die.
What *seems* to cause this death after full health, most times, at least for me, is when the cocooned player *takes* a little amount of damage as a result of one of Arcturia's AoE attacks (the one that makes all players in the area to do a "little jump").
The problem can sometimes be avoided by: a) The healer keep an eye on the cocooned person and cast a heal when they seem to jump or; b) The party keeps fighting Arcturia, but really away from the cocooned person, so the AoE attack has a smaller chance to hit the cocooned player.
My party generally follows b), and a) is quite useful to know when in a PUG.
That said, cocooned players are generally immune to damage, but they aren't immune to this AoE attack in particular. Considering it is a fairly basic attack with no indication whatsoever and too low damage to notice someone isn't at full health, I think this might be a bug. But, considering that Neverwinter is Neverwinter, we might as well call that a mechanic.
It's not a guaranteed death. The moment that curse is on you, you need to be watching for her to call out "Be still!" and purposely look at her when she uses her 360 petrify eye. That cleanses the curse and shortens your time petrified. If you miss 1, maybe 2 of those eyes if you have a good healer helping you, then you have to think about burning a scroll. And if you see someone with the curse on them, stay away. Hopefully they would move away themselves, but you never know.
The only time the curse is 100% death rate is if you have Curse on you when she starts finale, or someone with the curse then decides to share it with you then. Which, s--- happens and you can't help that sometimes.
I think most people who care enough about the game to read the forums know this mechanic. The problem is: since mod 16 hit, Nostura is taking way too long to cast the stun. Even with a healer helping, it's common to die to the curse even before an eye appears at all.
Yeah. I'm a new Mod 16 player, so I can't speak of how it was previously, but my experience has been that even with chugging potions and the healer burning all their divinity on a single player with the curse, more often than not it just leads to wasted potions, an empty healer, and a downed player. Then Nostura yells "Be still!" like 15 seconds later.
Yeah. I'm a new Mod 16 player, so I can't speak of how it was previously, but my experience has been that even with chugging potions and the healer burning all their divinity on a single player with the curse, more often than not it just leads to wasted potions, an empty healer, and a downed player. Then Nostura yells "Be still!" like 15 seconds later.
As a player who has been doing spell plague countless time, I can say Nostura curse and stun timing is off. Sometime it happen like u said in 15sec later, sometime it just takes more than that. In the past the timer between curse and stun are more consistent. Healer usually are able to keep a person alive till the next stun happen. In mod 16, it all luck. In my opinion, this is probably a bug that the developer have missed.
LoMM, Cocooned players die (even full healed) when players keep damaging the boss (from the start a player gets it till cocoon explodes)..
I think its cause by some kind of healing shadow. When u heal someone, at the moment their hp went up, there seems to be a white bar shadowing it and the green bar will rapidly fill in the white shadow. So long as the white shadow has not been filled by green, the person is not considered fully healed. Since I'm observing as a paladin, my target are pretty much safe from outside damage. Its just that whenever my target still has that white shadow in their hp bar, he will die to the cocoon. I usually just toss in another heal on top as a precaution and he should be safe.
So after being on preview a bit and watching the Dev Stream, I share many of the concerns of the original poster here. Mod 17 has some nice "Quality of Life" things, notably the new appearance system and the expansion of professions to level 80 (though, still NO masterwork expansion). It's also got a new PvP map and some level 80 PvP gear. It also adds some new gear in the form of rings and companion gear. Finally it adds a short set of quests and a new trial (but no new campaign). It's really more of a "b" module than a proper module.
For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
I had the same thought: this is a "16b" module, not a "17" module. As for the new trial, it will be even worse: You'll see "LF4M DPS, 26k 200k+ power, EXP" in chat: if you haven't done the trial, your chances of getting in a group will exponentially decline as a small core of experienced players forms. And, as with every module, someone will form an invitation-only private chat channel for BiS players. The rest of the plebes won't even know of the groups of experienced players that form.
This is how it will go down -- this is how it ALWAYS goes down.
As for me, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 for something worthwhile to do. Do I have 24k players at present? Yes, I have several, but I'm opting out of all that elitism -- I find it distasteful. Maybe I'll go back to seeing what other games are out there as I can only do so many influence runs before I want to scream.
As for TOMM getting easier over time, don't bet on it: remember, you will now be capped to a preset scaling level. I think I'll pass. I don't have so much of an ego that I have anything to prove by beating my head against that particular wall. And, as a side note, I don't think I want to be in the same room as the "content needs to be haaaaarrrrrdddddeeeeerrrrr!" people who will be infesting it. Water is a precious resource and I don't want to have to take that many showers. I'm here for the storytelling and for the journey, which now that the Foundry is gone is a lot less.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
So after being on preview a bit and watching the Dev Stream, I share many of the concerns of the original poster here. Mod 17 has some nice "Quality of Life" things, notably the new appearance system and the expansion of professions to level 80 (though, still NO masterwork expansion). It's also got a new PvP map and some level 80 PvP gear. It also adds some new gear in the form of rings and companion gear. Finally it adds a short set of quests and a new trial (but no new campaign). It's really more of a "b" module than a proper module.
For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
As for me, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 for something worthwhile to do. Do I have 24k players at present? Yes, I have several, but I'm opting out of all that elitism -- I find it distasteful. Maybe I'll go back to seeing what other games are out there as I can only do so many influence runs before I want to scream.
It is distastefull, and its even more distasteful if you are being accused as Elitist by simple minded people who are not capable (yet) to run difficult events due the simple fact that they a lacking required stats, lacking knowledge of any mechanic in game due they where spoiled with that cursed LS... I don't consider myself a Elitist when I am capable and don't want to be called that way... I Always say to those ppl… work on your character, learn the game mechanics (like many of that group did) and look in the mirror before you make blunt accusation towards those who ARE ABLE... thats so Saul Allinsky style of rhetoric
Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin Tank/ Healer
1
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
So after being on preview a bit and watching the Dev Stream, I share many of the concerns of the original poster here. Mod 17 has some nice "Quality of Life" things, notably the new appearance system and the expansion of professions to level 80 (though, still NO masterwork expansion). It's also got a new PvP map and some level 80 PvP gear. It also adds some new gear in the form of rings and companion gear. Finally it adds a short set of quests and a new trial (but no new campaign). It's really more of a "b" module than a proper module.
For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
I had the same thought: this is a "16b" module, not a "17" module. As for the new trial, it will be even worse: You'll see "LF4M DPS, 26k 200k+ power, EXP" in chat: if you haven't done the trial, your chances of getting in a group will exponentially decline as a small core of experienced players forms. And, as with every module, someone will form an invitation-only private chat channel for BiS players. The rest of the plebes won't even know of the groups of experienced players that form.
This is how it will go down -- this is how it ALWAYS goes down.
As for me, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 for something worthwhile to do. Do I have 24k players at present? Yes, I have several, but I'm opting out of all that elitism -- I find it distasteful. Maybe I'll go back to seeing what other games are out there as I can only do so many influence runs before I want to scream.
As for TOMM getting easier over time, don't bet on it: remember, you will now be capped to a preset scaling level. I think I'll pass. I don't have so much of an ego that I have anything to prove by beating my head against that particular wall. And, as a side note, I don't think I want to be in the same room as the "content needs to be haaaaarrrrrdddddeeeeerrrrr!" people who will be infesting it. Water is a precious resource and I don't want to have to take that many showers. I'm here for the storytelling and for the journey, which now that the Foundry is gone is a lot less.
The average player has plenty of content, 16 modules of it (there is even content for average players in M17 in the form of more expeditions that drop different gear, or the small professions update). Trying to make the one bit of content that many have been asking for on the forums easier is pretty selfish. This upcoming module has something for everyone, and if part of that something isn't for you, there is no need to try and take it away from them or bemoaning the developers for spending time on stuff that isn't meant to be for everyone.
Let's also remember that Halaster is an EXTREMELY powerful mage in DnD. One that even Elminster himself would give pause before battling. Making him anything less than extremely difficult, would be an insult.
I will say that it is sad that the foundry is gone, especially for those authors. But that is for another thread.
Yeah. I'm a new Mod 16 player, so I can't speak of how it was previously, but my experience has been that even with chugging potions and the healer burning all their divinity on a single player with the curse, more often than not it just leads to wasted potions, an empty healer, and a downed player. Then Nostura yells "Be still!" like 15 seconds later.
As a player who has been doing spell plague countless time, I can say Nostura curse and stun timing is off. Sometime it happen like u said in 15sec later, sometime it just takes more than that. In the past the timer between curse and stun are more consistent. Healer usually are able to keep a person alive till the next stun happen. In mod 16, it all luck. In my opinion, this is probably a bug that the developer have missed.
It is not a bug, in that the mechanics per se is working as intended.
It however is a tuning issue. When they fixed MSP to adapt it to new stat/healing system the damage of the curse was set way too high. So now it ticks up to lethal levels before you get a chance to take a stun. I am not sure the Cryptic dev that fixed this understands the mechanic
I am fine with us getting a high-end really challenging encounter.
I am however not sure it was strategically smart of Cryptic to go that route with this mod. What game needs now is a lot of new content at unscaled level 80 to in part get away from the unpopular scaling mess. They should have provided a huge amount of accessible unscaled level 80 zones, in particular dungeons, for this mod.
It would have been a good time to reintroduce all those 'lost' dungeons from mod 6.
Mod 17 seems very small.. I guess the Cryptic NW dev team is very small too now
I dont mind TOMM will be the hardest content. It should be like that. As long the rewards worthwhile. Meanwhile new pvp rewards will be my aim while trying to ready myself for TOMM.
So after being on preview a bit and watching the Dev Stream, I share many of the concerns of the original poster here. Mod 17 has some nice "Quality of Life" things, notably the new appearance system and the expansion of professions to level 80 (though, still NO masterwork expansion). It's also got a new PvP map and some level 80 PvP gear. It also adds some new gear in the form of rings and companion gear. Finally it adds a short set of quests and a new trial (but no new campaign). It's really more of a "b" module than a proper module.
For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
I had the same thought: this is a "16b" module, not a "17" module. As for the new trial, it will be even worse: You'll see "LF4M DPS, 26k 200k+ power, EXP" in chat: if you haven't done the trial, your chances of getting in a group will exponentially decline as a small core of experienced players forms. And, as with every module, someone will form an invitation-only private chat channel for BiS players. The rest of the plebes won't even know of the groups of experienced players that form.
This is how it will go down -- this is how it ALWAYS goes down.
As for me, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 for something worthwhile to do. Do I have 24k players at present? Yes, I have several, but I'm opting out of all that elitism -- I find it distasteful. Maybe I'll go back to seeing what other games are out there as I can only do so many influence runs before I want to scream.
As for TOMM getting easier over time, don't bet on it: remember, you will now be capped to a preset scaling level. I think I'll pass. I don't have so much of an ego that I have anything to prove by beating my head against that particular wall. And, as a side note, I don't think I want to be in the same room as the "content needs to be haaaaarrrrrdddddeeeeerrrrr!" people who will be infesting it. Water is a precious resource and I don't want to have to take that many showers. I'm here for the storytelling and for the journey, which now that the Foundry is gone is a lot less.
The average player has plenty of content, 16 modules of it (there is even content for average players in M17 in the form of more expeditions that drop different gear, or the small professions update). Trying to make the one bit of content that many have been asking for on the forums easier is pretty selfish. This upcoming module has something for everyone, and if part of that something isn't for you, there is no need to try and take it away from them or bemoaning the developers for spending time on stuff that isn't meant to be for everyone.
Let's also remember that Halaster is an EXTREMELY powerful mage in DnD. One that even Elminster himself would give pause before battling. Making him anything less than extremely difficult, would be an insult.
I will say that it is sad that the foundry is gone, especially for those authors. But that is for another thread.
Yeah. I'm a new Mod 16 player, so I can't speak of how it was previously, but my experience has been that even with chugging potions and the healer burning all their divinity on a single player with the curse, more often than not it just leads to wasted potions, an empty healer, and a downed player. Then Nostura yells "Be still!" like 15 seconds later.
As a player who has been doing spell plague countless time, I can say Nostura curse and stun timing is off. Sometime it happen like u said in 15sec later, sometime it just takes more than that. In the past the timer between curse and stun are more consistent. Healer usually are able to keep a person alive till the next stun happen. In mod 16, it all luck. In my opinion, this is probably a bug that the developer have missed.
It is not a bug, in that the mechanics per se is working as intended.
It however is a tuning issue. When they fixed MSP to adapt it to new stat/healing system the damage of the curse was set way too high. So now it ticks up to lethal levels before you get a chance to take a stun. I am not sure the Cryptic dev that fixed this understands the mechanic
The ticks has been always that way ever since they first launched it. Its suppose to ticks up to lethal level as time passed. What's goes wrong is that before mod 16, the time between curse and stun are more consistent. After mod 16 is introduced, the timing get wonky. Sometimes it takes a short period of time before Nostura does her stun. Sometimes it takes too long that no one could be saved. That's definitely not intended. The script is bugged.
I am fine with us getting a high-end really challenging encounter.
I am however not sure it was strategically smart of Cryptic to go that route with this mod. What game needs now is a lot of new content at unscaled level 80 to in part get away from the unpopular scaling mess. They should have provided a huge amount of accessible unscaled level 80 zones, in particular dungeons, for this mod.
It would have been a good time to reintroduce all those 'lost' dungeons from mod 6.
Mod 17 seems very small.. I guess the Cryptic NW dev team is very small too now
This would be an excellent time to reintroduce the old dungeons back into the general queue (what am I saying -- any time during the last FIVE YEARS would have been an excellent time). That said, you couldn't be more right: with 17 looking as light as it is, this truly would be an excellent time for it. I don't see it happening, though. My gut tells me that someone's ego just won't allow it, since it would imply admitting a colossal mistake.
As for TOMM being BiS-exclusive content, by all means, if that's what you want, I won't stand in the way. I have no doubt that the people who continually run the BiS PvP arms race will be overjoyed as they will be the best geared. I will, however, call a spade a spade with no sugarcoating.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I am fine with us getting a high-end really challenging encounter.
I am however not sure it was strategically smart of Cryptic to go that route with this mod. What game needs now is a lot of new content at unscaled level 80 to in part get away from the unpopular scaling mess. They should have provided a huge amount of accessible unscaled level 80 zones, in particular dungeons, for this mod.
It would have been a good time to reintroduce all those 'lost' dungeons from mod 6.
Mod 17 seems very small.. I guess the Cryptic NW dev team is very small too now
This would be an excellent time to reintroduce the old dungeons back into the general queue (what am I saying -- any time during the last FIVE YEARS would have been an excellent time). That said, you couldn't be more right: with 17 looking as light as it is, this truly would be an excellent time for it. I don't see it happening, though. My gut tells me that someone's ego just won't allow it, since it would imply admitting a colossal mistake.
As for TOMM being BiS-exclusive content, by all means, if that's what you want, I won't stand in the way. I have no doubt that the people who continually run the BiS PvP arms race will be overjoyed as they will be the best geared. I will, however, call a spade a spade with no sugarcoating.
Nobody in the video above currently PVPs and I don't really think there is much of an overlap between endgame PVPers and endgame PVErs, they are 2 largely unrelated groups. So I am not sure what you are griping about, but if you have a bone to pick with PVP players pick it with them and leave us alone. We just like hard content and would like the opportunity to run hard content, is that too much to ask for?
1. Introducing BiS content while not introducing any new less-than-BiS content. I'm well aware of most of the mechanics in the new content (though the cocoon one is still a mystery to me) and I've run all of the newest content. However, I also regularly hear from alliance members who can't run the newest content and are limited to simply grinding. Where am I going with this? Remember when Lostmauth and Tuern first went live? There were **TWO** versions of them: epic and non-epic. Players not yet able to run the epic versions could run the non-epic ones to learn the mechanics while getting lesser rewards. The devs did this up through Svardborg, and then they got lazy -- or more likely, someone made a policy decision that they would no longer make "learning" versions of new BiS content. I submit that you can trace a lot of the toxicity that arises every time new BiS content comes out directly to that decision.
2. This ties into my second gripe: what the community does every single time new BiS content comes out. Because the "stakes" are so high, much of it winds up getting locked into invitation-only private channels. While I regularly get invited to these channels, it still really rubs me the wrong way. Reading guides and watching videos can only take one so far. At some point everyone has to learn by doing. How are most players supposed to learn the mechanics if the lion's share of the runs are being organized in channels they aren't even aware of? And when runs are advertised in LFG, how are they supposed to learn when 90% or more of all LFM requests are demanding *experienced* participants only? I'm sure some will reply here that "well, I regularly take on people new to the dungeon/trial", and I have no doubt that you'll be telling the truth. Now go spend a little time watching LFG when new content comes out and tell me that what I'm describing is not in fact the norm rather than the exception.
So -- you want a BiS trial called TOMM? You have to call it *epic* TOMM and you should also have to accept the existence of a NON-epic TOMM that lesser players can run to learn the mechanics for the day that they can run eTOMM. That's what I expect and what I think everyone else should demand. This is what *should* have been done for ToNG, CR, and everything else.
And *that*, my friends, is the true test of Whether One Is An Elitist. Can you accept the existence of nTOMM along with eTOMM? Of nCR along with eCR, or nToNG along with eToNG?
Post edited by hustin1 on
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Comments
The only thing that concern me here is now that the developer split player group up between average player and hardcore lover, they need to satisfy both group in a fairly manner. That's pretty much gonna split up their resources for both group. So the question is, will our future content be watered down or will the developer choose to satisfy both group alternately every mod?
I have a hard time seeing that any company would allow so many man-hours used on content that will only be played/completed by a tiny minority of the games poulation.
An Epic version like the one currently on preview, and a regular version scaled down to maybe a slightly higher difficulty than LOMM currently sits.
This would be a lot better for the game as a whole.
Players can experience the new content, while training for the Epic version.
Loot in the regular version should obviously not be of the same level as the Epic version, but that's easily tuned in the loot-tables.
People will laugh at me when people like me are starting to whine about PvE content in a PvP based game like ESO..
Thats my point, and talk about reading... By my best knowledge is this topic about ToMM and NOT PvP content..
Castle Ravenloft,
A hard dungeon but doable… There is a reason that tank pulls Sister to far left and the person with book goes to the far right.... Exploding Lantarns… Just make sure that youre avoiding red's and with the massive AoE… Well, placing a Paladins sigil, Hollowed ground and big heals helps a lot (considered that players have decent stats to begin with).
FBI,
Same thing, Avoid red's and don't stand where tank is fighting… I see too many times in the Drufi fight (as example) that player don't group up when its needed to share the damage (they simply die).
MSP,
The curse can be cured by one way, and that is to get dazed on purpose by her eye… The curse is doing more and more damage each tick, you cannot outheal it... Just let them die and preserve your divinity for those who are not affected (read who knows the mechanics).
Cradle,
That was a bug, and should be fixed by now… I have done recently some run and didn't experience it.. Gravemaster type of mobs are casting this and is visible by a huge red circle (or blueish / purple one).
LoMM,
Cocooned players die (even full healed) when players keep damaging the boss (from the start a player gets it till cocoon explodes)..
So, what I read about this is that there is a severe lack of knowledge of mechanics and a lack of proper builds because ppl are focussing too much of raising their Ilevel without working properly on their stats in their race to become eligble for a dungeon to get their hands on fat loot.
These people even entering these dungeons without scroll's and calling out for help when they die..
Bottomline is that people have been spoiled way too long and I am very happy that they have removed that cursed LS, so people are finally forced to start learning the mechanics.
I see in this video a few important things going on with this group (I joined a few times)
1. Commitment as group to learn the mechanics by trying over and over again.
2. Self dicipline of the DPS group to hold themselves not to get too triggerhappy and leave the aggro control by the tanks (where it must be) since they are capable to deal with the incoming damage… The race for paingivers chart is not important and actually an useless thing which brings people to take insane actions to get on top... Result as group is what counts here.
3. The use of voice communication is a great thing in this fight where only 3 players should speak, the leader for giving directions and the two tanks for calling out the stack's to take over the aggro..
Bottomline is that people should not complain that it is too hard (difficulty, mechanics ect,ect) but work on their character to get the needed stats capped (note. itemlevel is secondary in this case) before you even take an attemt to face this boss.
There will be new dungeons in future too which might be more doable for players who havent reached this required level yet.
Hence, when I read some posts on forum then I get sometimes the impression that they are skipping quite some dungeons by going to try this content...
These players should take a good look in a mirror before they are posting things like its too hard, too difficult ect. in a attempt to persuade dev's to lowering down the difficulty…
My gratulations goes to this 'Elitist' 'bis' group for a job well done
Yes, there are the boon points, but realistically, where's the incentive for new plays to go back and grind those out? From your free gear, you can build up seals of the crown and/or seals of the undermountain (whatever they're called) and get your stats up much quicker by replacing gear. Also, the undermountain campaign gives you a few boon points along the way anyway. If new mods continue to cater for newer players in that way, why would you ever need to bother with older contents for boons? You might not be BiS, but you wont be far behind. Those players dedicated to being BiS, won't be the ones on the forums complaining, they will just get on and grind out everything they can anyway.
I read a reddit post the other day where someone was complaining that it isn't easy to get to 20k IL and that it could only be end gamers that claimed it was. That kind of post feels like an inevitability with providing shortcuts to get to higher level content more easily. Rather than players coming into the game with an expectation of having to work through all the content progressively to slowly improve their characters to the top tier (which in itself gives a better sense of pride in your character as you've earned every stat and every bit of equipment it has), players basically set up a new character, wiz through to level 70 and then are able to bypass large chunks of the game to end up pretty close to end game status and of course, expect that to be the norm for them.
To me it highlights the financial influence on the game. The desperate desire to try and please everyone in order to keep them putting their hands in their pockets. The game making some kind of sense ultimately comes second. Almost like they have taken D&D and tried to create a casual but addictive Candy Crush style game around it.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1249164/drufis-hypothermia-continues-to-proc-after-it-should-be-finished
Regarding MSP, Nostura's curse shouldn't just be a basically-guaranteed death, especially since scrolls give you revive sickness now. It feels cheap, especially since there doesn't seem to be a way to prevent her from using it.
The only time the curse is 100% death rate is if you have Curse on you when she starts finale, or someone with the curse then decides to share it with you then. Which, s--- happens and you can't help that sometimes.
Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
What *seems* to cause this death after full health, most times, at least for me, is when the cocooned player *takes* a little amount of damage as a result of one of Arcturia's AoE attacks (the one that makes all players in the area to do a "little jump").
The problem can sometimes be avoided by:
a) The healer keep an eye on the cocooned person and cast a heal when they seem to jump or;
b) The party keeps fighting Arcturia, but really away from the cocooned person, so the AoE attack has a smaller chance to hit the cocooned player.
My party generally follows b), and a) is quite useful to know when in a PUG.
That said, cocooned players are generally immune to damage, but they aren't immune to this AoE attack in particular. Considering it is a fairly basic attack with no indication whatsoever and too low damage to notice someone isn't at full health, I think this might be a bug. But, considering that Neverwinter is Neverwinter, we might as well call that a mechanic.
This is how it will go down -- this is how it ALWAYS goes down.
As for me, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 for something worthwhile to do. Do I have 24k players at present? Yes, I have several, but I'm opting out of all that elitism -- I find it distasteful. Maybe I'll go back to seeing what other games are out there as I can only do so many influence runs before I want to scream.
As for TOMM getting easier over time, don't bet on it: remember, you will now be capped to a preset scaling level. I think I'll pass. I don't have so much of an ego that I have anything to prove by beating my head against that particular wall. And, as a side note, I don't think I want to be in the same room as the "content needs to be haaaaarrrrrdddddeeeeerrrrr!" people who will be infesting it. Water is a precious resource and I don't want to have to take that many showers. I'm here for the storytelling and for the journey, which now that the Foundry is gone is a lot less.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I don't consider myself a Elitist when I am capable and don't want to be called that way...
I Always say to those ppl… work on your character, learn the game mechanics (like many of that group did) and look in the mirror before you make blunt accusation towards those who ARE ABLE... thats so Saul Allinsky style of rhetoric
Let's also remember that Halaster is an EXTREMELY powerful mage in DnD. One that even Elminster himself would give pause before battling. Making him anything less than extremely difficult, would be an insult.
I will say that it is sad that the foundry is gone, especially for those authors. But that is for another thread.
It however is a tuning issue. When they fixed MSP to adapt it to new stat/healing system the damage of the curse was set way too high. So now it ticks up to lethal levels before you get a chance to take a stun. I am not sure the Cryptic dev that fixed this understands the mechanic
I am however not sure it was strategically smart of Cryptic to go that route with this mod. What game needs now is a lot of new content at unscaled level 80 to in part get away from the unpopular scaling mess. They should have provided a huge amount of accessible unscaled level 80 zones, in particular dungeons, for this mod.
It would have been a good time to reintroduce all those 'lost' dungeons from mod 6.
Mod 17 seems very small.. I guess the Cryptic NW dev team is very small too now
As for TOMM being BiS-exclusive content, by all means, if that's what you want, I won't stand in the way. I have no doubt that the people who continually run the BiS PvP arms race will be overjoyed as they will be the best geared. I will, however, call a spade a spade with no sugarcoating.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
1. Introducing BiS content while not introducing any new less-than-BiS content. I'm well aware of most of the mechanics in the new content (though the cocoon one is still a mystery to me) and I've run all of the newest content. However, I also regularly hear from alliance members who can't run the newest content and are limited to simply grinding. Where am I going with this? Remember when Lostmauth and Tuern first went live? There were **TWO** versions of them: epic and non-epic. Players not yet able to run the epic versions could run the non-epic ones to learn the mechanics while getting lesser rewards. The devs did this up through Svardborg, and then they got lazy -- or more likely, someone made a policy decision that they would no longer make "learning" versions of new BiS content. I submit that you can trace a lot of the toxicity that arises every time new BiS content comes out directly to that decision.
2. This ties into my second gripe: what the community does every single time new BiS content comes out. Because the "stakes" are so high, much of it winds up getting locked into invitation-only private channels. While I regularly get invited to these channels, it still really rubs me the wrong way. Reading guides and watching videos can only take one so far. At some point everyone has to learn by doing. How are most players supposed to learn the mechanics if the lion's share of the runs are being organized in channels they aren't even aware of? And when runs are advertised in LFG, how are they supposed to learn when 90% or more of all LFM requests are demanding *experienced* participants only? I'm sure some will reply here that "well, I regularly take on people new to the dungeon/trial", and I have no doubt that you'll be telling the truth. Now go spend a little time watching LFG when new content comes out and tell me that what I'm describing is not in fact the norm rather than the exception.
So -- you want a BiS trial called TOMM? You have to call it *epic* TOMM and you should also have to accept the existence of a NON-epic TOMM that lesser players can run to learn the mechanics for the day that they can run eTOMM. That's what I expect and what I think everyone else should demand. This is what *should* have been done for ToNG, CR, and everything else.
And *that*, my friends, is the true test of Whether One Is An Elitist. Can you accept the existence of nTOMM along with eTOMM? Of nCR along with eCR, or nToNG along with eToNG?
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured