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Comments about Tower of the mad mage in last nights stream
mynaam
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
I really hope it was a language barrier but..
During last nights stream they made it clear to me that the vast majority of the player base will not be able to do the new trial. That only bis players can do it and as of yet no bis players have succeeded(They bragged about this fact). This means that normal players will need to grind ME's for the rest of the year and that is all they can do. I really think if this is true it will be catastrophic to the already shrinking player base. No content for the large majority of players for 2 mods is not smart (since many cannot do LOMM yet)
During last nights stream they made it clear to me that the vast majority of the player base will not be able to do the new trial. That only bis players can do it and as of yet no bis players have succeeded(They bragged about this fact). This means that normal players will need to grind ME's for the rest of the year and that is all they can do. I really think if this is true it will be catastrophic to the already shrinking player base. No content for the large majority of players for 2 mods is not smart (since many cannot do LOMM yet)
There are more than BIS players in this game
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
1
Comments
With the player base dropping about 21% in last 2 months limiting the players that do normal content is a bad idea. If they had a master and normal version of the trial it would be fine but that has been out of the dev's radar for years
Making 1% of your player base happy (i am one of those that will probably do it) and neglecting 99% is not smart just to appease some streamers and youtuber's that moaned things are to easy. They should also have players that are mid level and low level in their private "Boys club" testing. only listening to bis players ONLY give you a false idea of what is happening in the game.
I love this game (i am the type of player spending 2 hours in tong this week just to give a player their first tong win), but i feel this mod will hurt it further .. sadly. We need more players not just keep the few bis players happy.
EDIT: I know this will be ignored like the question about class was avoided even though almost all post in forum asked about it (the forum for questions about stream)
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Going forward with this being our upper limit, the devs can be like, you are not as skilled enough to beat ToMM (at this point nobody is that skilled) but you are able to beat LoMM so we will scale stuff within these two regions, which will greatly add to the games health, giving tiered challenging content to everyone.
> I don't think grinding MEs is the most efficient way for what you call "normal" players to get the RP and marks needed to upgrade their gear. The legacy campaigns and the new PVP store would be better imho. In M16 everyone should be able to reach LOMM lvl gearing with minimal effort. As LOMM already is too easy for the top tier players, I see no reason at all to complain about the fact that 1 out of XX quenes is intended for them. M17 will have players returning, not the opposite.
>
> What i meant was the only end game content the average player will see is ME's. As for PVP gear unless they give us an incentive to do PVP i do not see the average player doing it. What Thomas Foss mentioned back when people were doing PVP was because we got AD for our first win every day on every character there is no such carrot now.
>
> With the player base dropping about 21% in last 2 months limiting the players that do normal content is a bad idea. If they had a master and normal version of the trial it would be fine but that has been out of the dev's radar for years
>
> Making 1% of your player base happy (i am one of those that will probably do it) and neglecting 99% is not smart just to appease some streamers and youtuber's that moaned things are to easy. They should also have players that are mid level and low level in their private "Boys club" testing. only listening to bis players ONLY give you a false idea of what is happening in the game.
>
> I love this game (i am the type of player spending 2 hours in tong this week just to give a player their first tong win), but i feel this mod will hurt it further .. sadly. We need more players not just keep the few bis players happy.
>
> EDIT: I know this will be ignored like the question about class was avoided even though almost all post in forum asked about it (the forum for questions about stream)
Check out the new PVP rewards on preview
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
I think all new content should be at least incrementally more difficult than previous content, but with dedicated drops specifically designed to aid players to play more efficiently in those new areas, circa Elemental Evil.
But that's just my opinion.
Same thing will happen too prior mod17..
I have been part a few times too of that group, and I gratulate those bis players for their achievment.
That trial is ment to be difficult since its a endgame event as everyone can see in that stream.
Remember that these "bis" players have been worked hard on their character to reach that level.. as it should be.
LoMM was impossible according the PE population, but when I checked them they all where in blue gear with r7 / r8 enchants and told them to work on their char instead of whining about all and everything which I have been cussed out for that remark..
ToMM will be impossible accordig to same ppl…
For those people Dev's should create a verson of ToMM on Cloaktower level, with Cloaktower loot of course.. No bis loot on a silver platter
When Mod17 arrives I will be in PE with a BIG bucket of popcorn..
There was the changes to character stats, feats (now powers) the changes to boons, companions, mounts, enchantments, runestones, companion gear, player gear, scaling and content mobs and bosses...
Perhaps a more moderate approach might be considered?
Clearly some content is very difficult for some players. Inversely some content is too easy for some other players but there are still some obvious givens when it comes to any content a player chooses to play;
My view happens to be if any player thinks their game play is "too easy" - count your friggin' blessings and go with it...
More difficult (or at least different) content will be forthcoming, if you feel you can't put up with the current content and don't want to wait around for new possibly more challenging content, there are other games out there. New players and those who haven't yet mastered the current content ,or accumulated the items that makes some of the content ridiculously easy for them don't appreciate juggernaut BIS carrying players saying existing content should be made harder.
Just my two cents.
The only other way I know of is if the player has lots of free time (and the inclination) to endlessly grind to obtain the means to purchase at least some of those items with AD's...
Can a player even get to a 20K item level, by just using the items (gear, enchantments, runestones, mounts and companions) they pick up during regular campaign game play - even repeating campaigns for different gear or "stuff"?
I'm not aware of any means a player can just play the game and pick up gear, companions, mounts, enchantments or runestones - during their regular game play that would raise the player's item level to 20K... aside from the mind numbing repeated grind to accumulate sufficient AD's to buy their character a 20K item level.
After spending a couple of days railing against the changes for Mod6, I discovered a player could pick up items and gear of significant worth to allow players to play the Elemental Evil campaigns and once again be able to hold their own against mobs and bosses where we were able to do so prior to Mod6 but not after the change.
Seems the game is getting away from that premise, most players weren't able to campaign in Chult with the standard gear they were able to obtain in Chult - not without a lot of additional grinding to upgrde that gear and the gear we were given with the introduction of the Ravenloft and Undermountain (which was identical almost identical to Ravenloft gear by the way) was pretty much useless for helping players survive in those areas - without a few extra items that had to be bought - to make them better.
Neverwinter is still "free to play"... right up to the point you hit that brick wall... then it's either spend money or be willing to spend hours grinding to purchase the items needed for your character to survive.
I'm guessing the new healer limitations are in keeping with some new D&D change, but personally I don't like it... speaking strictly from a game character's perspective; "Our gods don't support and provide for us as much as they did prior to Mod16 - AND our opponents gods appear to support and provide for their followers more since Mod16"...
For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
I know PvP has needed some new maps for a long time .... but I just cannot help but think this module spend alot of time and resources developing a PvP map and gear when maybe they should have been spent on a skirmish or campaign for the "average" player instead.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Guess they have to wait another year for content. People ask why i say players are leaving when they only play with BIS player. You will not notice it if you only play with limited amount of players. Steam charts give a more than 20% drop in last 2 months i feel it might be closer to 30-40%
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
> This mod has 2 things for mainstream (not people that take time on forums and discord etc) the new race and the comp gear. To only do ME's till 2020 will not stop the rot
>
> as i see it, the players who cant do the new trial still have all the other 20+ Dungeons and skirmishes to do. And if those are to boring and easy for them, they should be able to do the new stuff.
>
> So do 6 year old content for 6-12 months are you willing to do that?
U didnt get it right? Ill explain again.
There are 2 groups of Players.
Group 1: has beaten all the content multiple times, long time Players, experienced and looking for a new challenge.
Those will love the new Trial cause its fun, challenging, difficult etc.
Group 2: has not beaten all the content as often if even at all, and still struggling with the content currently in the game.
This group still has plenty of stuff that is challenging to do for them and even if its older content, that doenst really matter. If Lomm/CoDG/CR etc.
Are still hard for those then they still have those things as challenging content.
And if a Player from group 2 comes to the Point where Lomm is now a walk in the Park for him... great he is now in Group one and can enjoy the trial.
>
> For the average player (ie. your 20K ish, non-PvPer) this module really offers basically no new content. No campaign, no new dungeon and nothing but a Trial they cannot even hope to get a group for, let alone finish. Personally I have a few characters who have the gear and item level to at least get in and try the new trial, but most in my guild don't and I think that's true all around - most people won't even be able to get into the new trial. Then add in the usual gear inflation needed to get a group for it .... and this will be played by very few groups indeed (LF4M DPS, 26K 200K+ Power for TOMM .... we will see this all over PE).
If i am not mistaken there will still be a new campaign coming for all the player to do?
Beside that I feel like there was a huge loss of geared veterans towards new player during last month, that surely need to catch up first before running end content.
> I feel like all these new dungeons have too many 1 shot kill mechanics, really makes it suck playing a healer amd missing all those opportunities to actually do your role and heal, because when the mechanic kills people instantly then you just look worthless
>
> The new dungeon is not intended for your average player, it is designed from the ground up for your 0.1% and it can be beaten. Furthermore, the healer does have an essential role and can heal through mechanics. I have never had this much fun playing Neverwinter, please do not take it away from me.
>
> That is my exact point The % players that do BIS content are way less than those that do not. Yet the rotation is 50/50 .. in fact a very large portion of players have not done lomm yet. that mean they have not had a dungeon for 2 mods is that acceptable 1% get 2 dungeons in a row?
>
> Guess they have to wait another year for content. People ask why i say players are leaving when they only play with BIS player. You will not notice it if you only play with limited amount of players. Steam charts give a more than 20% drop in last 2 months i feel it might be closer to 30-40%
Isnt it great to still have new content to explore and work towards? Kinda sounds like playing an mmo right?
Would it really be that great to release a new cloaktower lvl dungeon each mod just so that 100% of the players can beat it?
But regardless, if someone didn't do LoMM yet, they don't need to wait a year, or a month, or a day for new content. It's right there, and it's called LoMM.
What is difficult and end-game today, will be the crappy farming dungeon in a mod, two, or whenever. Who said that everyone must complete ALL the content on release?
Easy content shouldn't be the aim at the release, there should be a character progress, that assures that eventually everyone will be able to do it. This is indeed power creeps good side.
Can you show me where the PvP version is of ToMM.. please enlightnen the players in a PvE based game.
Nice try to turn topic, but don't think it will work..
I only pointed out that this module we are getting 2 pieces of new "Content" - A trial (ToMM) for the upper 1% of the PvEers, and a new PvP map for the 1% of the game that still PvPs. So what does the other 98% do??
And if you think a new map in PvP will solve all of PvP's problems and get people to PvP again, you are dreaming ... PvP needs help at a far more fundamental level than this.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader