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Critical healing / Redit AMA

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  • thavi2013thavi2013 Posts: 11Member Arc User
    Hey guys,
    I also did some tests with my cleric and I'd like to share my results with you. For this test I stood in the lava in Mount Hotenow and healed myself with Bastion of Health. The good thing is, I'm not in combat (=high divinity regen). But the bad thing is, I have to be faster than the health regen.

    Anyways, here are my results:
    9k Power and 22k Crit. Result: 195 non-crit / 222 crit heals (53%).
    24k Power and 6k Crit. I gave up early because the crit chance was so low. 100 non-crit / 8 crit (7%).
    26k Power and 13k Crit. Also short test series. 125 non-crit / 19 crit (13%).
    30k Power and 20k Crit. This one is interesting. 200 non-crit / 70 crit (26% crit chance).

    With "endgame" stats:
    165k Power and 97k Crit. 170 non-crit / 30 crit (15%). <-- my current stats
    100k Power and 97k Crit. 144 non-crit / 56 crit (28%).
    100k Power and 137k Crit. 116 non-crit / 84 crit (42%).

    15% is quite disappointing. In my opinion, heals should be reliable. DPS classes don't have a problem with RNG crits, because in the long term, critical hits will always improve overall damage. But as a healer it doesn't help much if you heal more in the long term because your group members could be dead in the meantime. ("My next heal would have saved you! Or maybe the one after that?").
    So my gut feeling is, that Power and Outgoing Healing is much more important than Critical Strike. With that in mind, how good is the Vorpal Enchantment for healers?

    What do you guys think?
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,082Member Arc User
    edited June 18

    Paladin might be the only class not in need of crit, even though some did not understand how and why referring to another thread, my heals crit even with 1%critchance >50%. So actually playing an Oathkeeper at optimum, it will save more Divinity by doing a 100% crit Divine Touch with 200k power and put a >300k barrier on all teammember and go drink a coffee or two, instead putting a 100k power crit on them.

    But actually the ammount of 120k crit does not lead to a better dps, on a paladin it will drop your dps sacrifing the same amount of power.

    Same as running 140k power + 80k crit vs. 110k power plus 110k crit on a let's say warlock or DC might only lead to a small increase in healing output and drops damage output same way.

    The only plus about all this is, that I can easily push my crit towards higher amounts, since near all gear has plus crit and 1compgear can be switched from defense to offense.

    So thx again for sharing.

    Nvm. It is answered to u in another thread.
    Post edited by kangkeok on
  • rapo973rapo973 Posts: 831Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Imo
    Do I really need crit heals so often? No
    Do I have problems when I don't crit? No
    Do I have options to have good heals regardless I crit or not? Yes (for example a companion increasing the outgoing healing or passive powers).

    While I agree that the design is questionable, the effect of it is manageable (at least for a cleric, cannot tell about paladins or warlocks).
    Official info about it is welcome: I would like to spend my time playing the game instead of testing to collect stats from logs.

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 687Member Arc User
    rapo973 said:

    Imo
    Do I really need crit heals so often? No
    Do I have problems when I don't crit? No
    Do I have options to have good heals regardless I crit or not? Yes (for example a companion increasing the outgoing healing or passive powers).

    While I agree that the design is questionable, the effect of it is manageable (at least for a cleric, cannot tell about paladins or warlocks).
    Official info about it is welcome: I would like to spend my time playing the game instead of testing to collect stats from logs.

    Well u cant really use that reasoning in an MMO, cause u could also say the same for dps characters.
    Do we need Crits to beat the highest Content? no
    Do we need CA do beat the highest Content? No
    etc...

    Its just stupid game design that u punish yourself by reducing your crit chance as a healer when u increase your Power.
    Its not breaking the game, but whoever came up with this should really reconsider this, cause its laughable
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,766Member Arc User
    edited June 18
    tom#6998 said:

    rapo973 said:

    Imo
    Do I really need crit heals so often? No
    Do I have problems when I don't crit? No
    Do I have options to have good heals regardless I crit or not? Yes (for example a companion increasing the outgoing healing or passive powers).

    While I agree that the design is questionable, the effect of it is manageable (at least for a cleric, cannot tell about paladins or warlocks).
    Official info about it is welcome: I would like to spend my time playing the game instead of testing to collect stats from logs.

    Well u cant really use that reasoning in an MMO, cause u could also say the same for dps characters.
    Do we need Crits to beat the highest Content? no
    Do we need CA do beat the highest Content? No
    etc...

    Its just stupid game design that u punish yourself by reducing your crit chance as a healer when u increase your Power.
    Its not breaking the game, but whoever came up with this should really reconsider this, cause its laughable
    The reasoning is a bit different since more DPS is always welcome outside of mechanics that punish you for dealing too much damage (which are extremely rare). More DPS, though not strictly required, tends to net us the result of faster content completion.

    More healing and mitigation beyond what's required and a perhaps a comfortable margin for error is completely useless unless you can translate it into more supporting DPS uptime, but since maximizing the "benefit" of this mechanic requires skewing stats unfavorably for DPS on class/role combos that are already not good at it under optimal conditions...well, it doesn't look like a good tradeoff.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • feadan#2363 feadan Posts: 52Member Arc User
    thavi2013 said:

    Hey guys,
    I also did some tests with my cleric [...]

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks for the effort.

    Sounds like you need twice as much crit as power just to get around 50% crits. For endgame I don't see that as sensible at all. You'd lose a ton of base healing by giving up power and 50% isn't exactly reliable.

    For me that means I'll continue focusing on power like before and not worry too much about crits. If there's a way to add crit without sacrificing anything else, fine, but otherwise it doesn't seem to be worth it.

    This mechanic certainly makes Vorpal less attractive but it's not like there's a better option.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,913Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    This mechanic certainly makes Vorpal less attractive but it's not like there's a better option.

    Well, for a cleric, Vorpal is clearly best for a DPS arbiter, but for a Devout healer - Holy Avenger, maybe ?

    Make NWO great again, please....
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,186Member Arc User
    edited June 19
    vorphied said:

    tom#6998 said:

    rapo973 said:

    Imo
    Do I really need crit heals so often? No
    Do I have problems when I don't crit? No
    Do I have options to have good heals regardless I crit or not? Yes (for example a companion increasing the outgoing healing or passive powers).

    While I agree that the design is questionable, the effect of it is manageable (at least for a cleric, cannot tell about paladins or warlocks).
    Official info about it is welcome: I would like to spend my time playing the game instead of testing to collect stats from logs.

    Well u cant really use that reasoning in an MMO, cause u could also say the same for dps characters.
    Do we need Crits to beat the highest Content? no
    Do we need CA do beat the highest Content? No
    etc...

    Its just stupid game design that u punish yourself by reducing your crit chance as a healer when u increase your Power.
    Its not breaking the game, but whoever came up with this should really reconsider this, cause its laughable
    The reasoning is a bit different since more DPS is always welcome outside of mechanics that punish you for dealing too much damage (which are extremely rare). More DPS, though not strictly required, tends to net us the result of faster content completion.

    More healing and mitigation beyond what's required and a perhaps a comfortable margin for error is completely useless unless you can translate it into more supporting DPS uptime, but since maximizing the "benefit" of this mechanic requires skewing stats unfavorably for DPS on class/role combos that are already not good at it under optimal conditions...well, it doesn't look like a good tradeoff.
    Too much dps is sometimes a punishment in lomm, at least at endboss, 8 Scrops incoming, my top mark so far :)
    About too much healing I only can say, in case of max shielded teammember that can even facetank a scorp thatlike it is indeed a win.

    thavi2013 said:

    Hey guys,
    I also did some tests with my cleric [...]

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks for the effort.

    Sounds like you need twice as much crit as power just to get around 50% crits. For endgame I don't see that as sensible at all. You'd lose a ton of base healing by giving up power and 50% isn't exactly reliable.

    For me that means I'll continue focusing on power like before and not worry too much about crits. If there's a way to add crit without sacrificing anything else, fine, but otherwise it doesn't seem to be worth it.

    This mechanic certainly makes Vorpal less attractive but it's not like there's a better option.
    I sacrifeced 8 k power (rest was Defense and Defelection) to gain +30k crit on my Oathkeeper, since it´s so easy to stack.
    The more power the less effective it get´s.
    Crit is somehow a bit more effective than pure power, depending on yoru critseverity by sure, but the difference is not so huge in the end, and you drop in dps from my pov. a bit also if that´s an issue.
    adinosii said:


    This mechanic certainly makes Vorpal less attractive but it's not like there's a better option.

    Well, for a cleric, Vorpal is clearly best for a DPS arbiter, but for a Devout healer - Holy Avenger, maybe ?
    For Oathkeeper Vorpal is by far the best, if played efficient.

    % damage gear does not count for outgoing heal, right?
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,766Member Arc User
    edited June 19
    adinosii said:


    This mechanic certainly makes Vorpal less attractive but it's not like there's a better option.

    Well, for a cleric, Vorpal is clearly best for a DPS arbiter, but for a Devout healer - Holy Avenger, maybe ?

    HA is still for basically no one. Bronzewood for Devout; arguably for Paladins since they can guarantee a crit shield when desired. Probably still best to run Bronzewood in a strong party since the shielding will usually matter less. For Soulweaver ideally Bronzewood should be best if Outgoing Healing is being used, but with their base magnitude of healing still so low, I unfortunately feel like the RNG crit heals are more helpful than they ought to be even just from a resource management perspective.


    Too much dps is sometimes a punishment in lomm, at least at endboss, 8 Scrops incoming, my top mark so far :)
    About too much healing I only can say, in case of max shielded teammember that can even facetank a scorp thatlike it is indeed a win.

    Yes, that's one of the few exceptions I was alluding to. Shielding up a team member to fight a scaladar is nice and everything, but again, only if it was going to kill them otherwise. I'll certainly take a crit shield when possible, because why not, but build specifically for it with the current system? Nope.



    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 750Member Arc User
    edited July 2
    I don't think I'll disagree with anyone suggesting the mechanics of the game became more difficult to figure out with Mod 16...

    They did suggest it would be like having to learn to play the game all over again as Neverwinter 2.0.

    As with the game prior to Mod 16 there were some things that weren't sufficiently explained or explained at all and the one time I asked for help from the GM about my Guild's name not appearing in the search window, I got a response something along the lines of: "We want players to figure out some things for themselves"... Pretty much the last time I went to the help screen to ask for assistance.

    Now here we are again with so many new and changed things about game play and character stats which appear to be insufficiently explained or not explained at all... same ol' - same ol' Neverwinter - even if it is Neverwinter 2.0.
    DD~
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 609Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @dionchi

    I disagree with you, game is easier to understand, reach the caps, add %outgoing healing or % dps.

    But this crit healing mechanic was hidden until the AMA, and still against all the other mechanics of the game.
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