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Critical healing / Redit AMA

tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 601Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
Just WTF did I just read


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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Posts: 153Member Arc User
    This makes perfect sense to me
  • lantern22lantern22 Posts: 916Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    lol . . . . . you fight against your self when healing others. Maybe your increased Power makes you a megalomaniac and therefore you don't have a real desire to help others
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 601Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 13
    wilbur626 said:

    This makes perfect sense to me




    For me:

    More power => Heals are better
    More crits => More chance to do critical healing...

    That's not what dev said, the dev said that the more power you have, the less critical heals you will do...
  • adders79#8251 adders79 Posts: 68Member Arc User
    It would really help if they actually explained exactly how they affect each other for healers....also can healer get over 50% crit chance for heals? My Warlock on preview has 140k crit now to play around and I do not notice a difference between this and my main on live who only has 80k
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,060Member Arc User
    edited June 13
    So the 68k crit is just a myth?
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 601Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I'm just puzzled, power should have no influence on crit chances. @asterdahl, can you clarify if power has influence or not on crit chances ? Or better explain the influence of increased healing, crits, power ?
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,060Member Arc User
    Is the formula same for dps power? or is it just for healing?
  • raziel2004#7353 raziel2004 Posts: 47Member Arc User
    Interesting. Does crit healing also need to check targets player crit avoidance 2 to deliver crit healing? Hope not but who know.. 🤷
  • dupeksdupeks Posts: 1,789Member Arc User
    @asterdahl can you please provide more clarity around this intended crit heal formula?

    Inferring crit rates requires large sample sizes, making it tedious and error-prone to play with. It would be nice if players got a little bit of guidance as to how much crit actually helps in support builds. Thanks!
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 992Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    power will depend o how strong crit heal it does same does for crit damage, he just uses clever vocabulary, but from what i read crit heals arent capped with the 50% crit chance dps and tanks have, so healers work towards 100% critchance for heals to crit???
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 753Member Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    This makes perfect sense to me

    I going to assume this needed an /s at the end?

    Aaanyways, just no, power should only affect the amount of heal, and if it is a "critical" heal, then it should just be multiplied by whatever value the critical severity of the healer is.

    Seems like that would be the most logical way to calculate the heal, no?
  • adders79#8251 adders79 Posts: 68Member Arc User
    There is no special formula. I've put my crit to 140k on preview and I noticed no extra crit chance. I still think it's capped at 50% chance. I think astradal just meant that if you haven't capped crit you need to consider what balance you want between power and crit
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,060Member Arc User
    Quick. Its time to buy all the Brutality enchanment and sell the radiant.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 739Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Quick. Its time to buy all the Brutality enchanment and sell the radiant.

    Was about to say something similar. Which may mean I should want to stack crit on my heal pally vice power. Unreal. :-/
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  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 992Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    From the small test that you will see below too, it seems that indeed Power affects the Critical chance of a heal, strange as it may sound. Specifically, the greater the power is over the critical value , the less Critical Heal % one has and if Power is lower than Crit than you can actually get the up to 50% chance.

    The test was done in Stronghold with the help of the Piranhas. I dived it and healed myself 40 to 50 times to have a decent sample size, using the same power or at-will.


    Here, with 193k power and 72k Crit I had 10% Critical Heals.



    I then dropped the Power to 62k and Critical was left at 70k. And tho I should have 2% less, my Crit heals actually increased to 39%.


    I then dropped my power even lower to increase the gap of Power to Crit even more and....

    ...the Critical heal% increased to 42%.

    So yes, the Dev was actually true to his statement and the difference of Power to Crit actually affects the Critical Heal %. Think of it as the counter stat of Critical is Power when it comes to heals but will test it more on the days to come.

    I have to say that this affects ONLY Critical Heals and it affects all 3 healing classes.

    In my opinion is best for a dedicated healer to have max Healing bonus % and then try to balance power/Crit ratio to where they like.

    Hope it helps.

    so basically if we have power values ~= to critical strike values we increase chance for critical heal, keep companions with outgoing healing %, i recommend exchange empowered runes for the critical strike ones(exchange one by one till both stats are closer to each other) companion runes can be a better option, and when you reach a huge difference between power and crit, time to trim with brutals, it would be laughable if this same effect happens on dps classes B)
  • eoleeeolee Posts: 260Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    So the 68k crit is just a myth?

    68k crit is needed for a dps class to counter the critical avoidance of critters in LoMM and reach the chance of 50% to crit Vs them.
    Nothing to do with the critical chance for a heal because i dont think us healers are fighting critical avoidance of our party ;)
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,060Member Arc User
    edited June 15
    vordayn said:

    This makes little sense and was not forewarned in any of the Mod 16 testing or actually laid out to the players until this AMA.

    I'm flabbergasted.

    Because everyone is obsessed with dps and no one ever thought of healing until after some time into mod16. I blame the past mod design that pigeon hole everything into dps and creating the mindset of player these days. When u teach your child to be greedy, they are gonna be greedy.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,137Member Arc User
    edited June 15
    I allways asked myself why my barrier effect does not crit that much, maybe <20%, now I know why.
    And without even doing any testing I can see the difference immidiately, thx.
    Nevertheless this is somehow nonsense to me, can find any logic behind this... get balanced crit/power value to be a good healer?
    If crit stat would cap at a higher level it would make more sense to me.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    edited June 15
    The funny thing with all of this is that there is no reason at all to change how we already build.

    While you could technically increase your average healing by dropping Power and pumping Crit to the point where your Crit % is approaching 50, why would you want to?

    High Power and Outgoing Healing % result in consistent, dramatic increases in healing numbers without further reducing your ability to help with overall party DPS and specific mechanics like mimics. With a low Power/high Crit build + Crit Severity, you have a good chance for a decent crit and also a good chance for lower-than-average heal.

    I could see some Oathkeepers trying to work this system for more frequent crit shielding, even though it's hardly needed, but Devout and Soulweaver have no use for this at all. If you have to depend on crit heals to get the job done, you already have a problem; if you heal sufficiently without crit heals, then more crits are essentially more overhealing.
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,137Member Arc User
    edited June 15
    vorphied said:

    The funny thing with all of this is that there is no reason at all to change how we already build.

    While you could technically increase your average healing by dropping Power and pumping Crit to the point where your Crit % is approaching 50, why would you want to?

    High Power and Outgoing Healing % result in consistent, dramatic increases in healing numbers without further reducing your ability to help with overall party DPS and specific mechanics like mimics. With a low Power/high Crit build + Crit Severity, you have a good chance for a decent crit and also a good chance for lower-than-average heal.

    I could see some Oathkeepers trying to work this system for more frequent crit shielding, even though it's hardly needed, but Devout and Soulweaver have no use for this at all. If you have to depend on crit heals to get the job done, you already have a problem; if you heal sufficiently without crit heals, then more crits are essentially more overhealing.

    Because combined with a Vorpal, my effective healing as Oathkeeper is significant better, the effect for Paladin is more valuable than for DC/Soulweaver I´d say, since I can store overheal in barrier effects.
    If you want, the combination from Critcal Touch plus Emissary of Warding, activating CT for no costs with any At Will (not even afffordet to hit anything) in between, grants you a 100% crit , a 1000 mag shield whenever you want so. This does also work with zero crit but is not that practical imo, not sure about that tbh, the prco rate is pretty high.
    Even DC and Soulweaver can switch crit for defense stats without sacrificing much power, same as offense stats.
    My Power is maybe 8 k lower now as before and my crit > 30k higher, since it´s easy to stack crit with gear/compgear (the blue one), my defense stats are lower now but the healing output is far better.
    Still all this does not make much sense in general.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 753Member Arc User
    Is there any real reason to calculate heals/critical heals this way?

    It seems awfully convoluted to do it this way, instead of the "usual" way of multiplying power with an eventual crit * crit severity?

    Or is it just a roundabout way of keeping heals down?
  • janedoe#7026 janedoe Posts: 2Member Arc User
    This is a Bug obviously , passing it as a mechanic is a disrespect to every veteran player tbh
    but i can understand , the fact that the devs can't solve it is another , the fact that this test is BS is another , as this is 1 situation
    u should have went with higher crit and tried other formulas , if a dev went so far to claim it as a 'normal mechanic' i think its a stat linkage bug of the sort , either way it doesn't change much , the fact is if u have 150k power u can basiacally heal any content , never had a situation where i couldn't heal my party even in Lomm .
  • whudepuke#8928 whudepuke Posts: 1Member Arc User
    Ah, this is yet another brilliant dev who thought of the genius idea to potray a buggy mechanic as an actual intended mechanic, which was never revealed before until now. Strange since everything majorly changed was written in the mod16 changes, yet this fairly major mechanic change wasn't?

    This reminds me of the most recent Master expedition incident, where it was claimed to be a major unbugged puzzle.

    You dare treat your community as supporters as meere ignorant peasants, it is no wonder you keep failing time after time and loosing supporters.
    I can't wait for your next mistakes.


    'I rather deny to the very end but never admit failure' The line that every fallen defeated man has said.
    Oh how I await your tomb, I am currently growing the most lucious flowers to celebrate the funeral. I hope they will be ready in time
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    > @schietindebux said:
    > The funny thing with all of this is that there is no reason at all to change how we already build.
    >
    > While you could technically increase your average healing by dropping Power and pumping Crit to the point where your Crit % is approaching 50, why would you want to?
    >
    > High Power and Outgoing Healing % result in consistent, dramatic increases in healing numbers without further reducing your ability to help with overall party DPS and specific mechanics like mimics. With a low Power/high Crit build + Crit Severity, you have a good chance for a decent crit and also a good chance for lower-than-average heal.
    >
    > I could see some Oathkeepers trying to work this system for more frequent crit shielding, even though it's hardly needed, but Devout and Soulweaver have no use for this at all. If you have to depend on crit heals to get the job done, you already have a problem; if you heal sufficiently without crit heals, then more crits are essentially more overhealing.
    >
    > Because combined with a Vorpal, my effective healing as Oathkeeper is significant better, the effect for Paladin is more valuable than for DC/Soulweaver I´d say, since I can store overheal in barrier effects.
    > If you want, the combination from Critcal Touch plus Emissary of Warding, activating CT for no costs with any At Will (not even afffordet to hit anything) in between, grants you a 100% crit , a 1000 mag shield whenever you want so. This does also work with zero crit but is not that practical imo, not sure about that tbh, the prco rate is pretty high.
    > Even DC and Soulweaver can switch crit for defense stats without sacrificing much power, same as offense stats.
    > My Power is maybe 8 k lower now as before and my crit > 30k higher, since it´s easy to stack crit with gear/compgear (the blue one), my defense stats are lower now but the healing output is far better.
    > Still all this does not make much sense in general.



    For me it boils down to the fact that overhealing and mitigation beyond what is needed to survive consistently and comfortably are useless. There are no improved loot tables for the biggest heals/shields, and we can’t blow up the mobs with lethal overhealing, so....yeah.

    Crits are satisfying and occasionally increase efficiency of resource use, but no one is going to plan around non-guaranteed crits.

    While Outgoing Healing bonus makes healing easier and more efficient, all healing in the game can already be accomplished without a lick of it, so why would anyone start caring about their crit rate when the system is so counterintuitive?
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  • adders79#8251 adders79 Posts: 68Member Arc User
    It would have just been nice if they communicated this from the start as most people will assume if they hit crit cap for dps this will also hit cap for healing. On preview I managed to get power 105k crit 155k after a lot of moving stuff around and I see a big increase to crit chance but overall healing numbers are similar and you gimp yourself in other areas to get crit that high. Definitely not worth it and think building power and outgoing healing is still the way to go
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 1,060Member Arc User
    edited June 16
    Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason.

    Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info.
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,757Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason.

    Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info.

    I don't think it's at all about blaming developers for not spoon-feeding the information upfront. It's about calling out the questionable decision to have crit healing work in this fashion.

    It's not as if this is the secret to great healing revealed; this information is basically irrelevant to actual gameplay. The only difference is that most of us were thinking that crit healing was bugged, and we now learned that it works poorly by design.
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