arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
edited June 2019
i like this idea of power and critical strike values need to be close to each other values for max critical chance this would make divinity pool drain slower
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@asterdahl the master boon blessed resilience is applying a temporary dizzy effect when healers choose this master boon
Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason.
Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info.
I don't think it's at all about blaming developers for not spoon-feeding the information upfront. It's about calling out the questionable decision to have crit healing work in this fashion.
It's not as if this is the secret to great healing revealed; this information is basically irrelevant to actual gameplay. The only difference is that most of us were thinking that crit healing was bugged, and we now learned that it works poorly by design.
Poorly design are subjective. In my opinion, its a good design. It opens up option for player to weight on how much power vs crit they are gonna distribute according to their build. Else everyone gonna just stack power and anything that has no power stat in it are worthless. Be it Insignia or enchantment.
Also the developer's design does not require anyone to hold them accounted for anything. They are the rule maker. The player need to accept it. Just like 68k cap. That's how the games work. U play with your stat accordingly.
> @kangkeok said: > Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason. > > Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info. > > I don't think it's at all about blaming developers for not spoon-feeding the information upfront. It's about calling out the questionable decision to have crit healing work in this fashion. > > It's not as if this is the secret to great healing revealed; this information is basically irrelevant to actual gameplay. The only difference is that most of us were thinking that crit healing was bugged, and we now learned that it works poorly by design. > > Poorly design are subjective. In my opinion, its a good design. It opens up option for player to weight on how much power vs crit they are gonna distribute according to their build. Else everyone gonna just stack power and anything that has no power stat in it are worthless. Be it Insignia or enchantment. > > Also the developer's design does not require anyone to hold them accounted for anything. They are the rule maker. The player need to accept it. Just like 68k cap. That's how the games work. U play with your stat accordingly.
uhm dude , what game have u been playing ? it has always been /always will be only radiant enchs coz bad design , and this is a bug that's getting passed on as a "mechanic " , even if all this BS is real power is by far superior as u don't need to depend on your god know what % to crit , coz im sure as hell it's not 100% so there is a % it won't crit , then gl healing if u don't crit lols i rather depend on smth more solid like power /outheals
It does near no difference if you put stats into power or crit anyway, only point is that you can easier rise your crit with very few changes than stacking power, wich is far more expensive. So for a low geared player this is a pretty good way to rise his healing output, no matter if or if not this is a bug or intended, I don´t really mind tbh. If this makes sense or not is a pretty subjective thing. I don´t see much sense in it, but I also don´t think about blaming anyone. Thx for sharing, it´s a cheaper way to improve the effectiveness. Despite I wrote, that Oathkeeper is favoured by this "mechanic" i have to revert this into: Oathkeeper can pretty much run a zero crit build and dish out far over 50% crit up to 90% with his major healing spell by using some feature. So this is more benefitial for Soulweaver and Devout with a small budget.
It does near no difference if you put stats into power or crit anyway, only point is that you can easier rise your crit with very few changes than stacking power, wich is far more expensive. So for a low geared player this is a pretty good way to rise his healing output, no matter if or if not this is a bug or intended, I don´t really mind tbh.
I agree but now it should impact the use of vorpal on healer ?
> Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason.
>
> Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info.
>
> I don't think it's at all about blaming developers for not spoon-feeding the information upfront. It's about calling out the questionable decision to have crit healing work in this fashion.
>
> It's not as if this is the secret to great healing revealed; this information is basically irrelevant to actual gameplay. The only difference is that most of us were thinking that crit healing was bugged, and we now learned that it works poorly by design.
>
> Poorly design are subjective. In my opinion, its a good design. It opens up option for player to weight on how much power vs crit they are gonna distribute according to their build. Else everyone gonna just stack power and anything that has no power stat in it are worthless. Be it Insignia or enchantment.
>
> Also the developer's design does not require anyone to hold them accounted for anything. They are the rule maker. The player need to accept it. Just like 68k cap. That's how the games work. U play with your stat accordingly.
uhm dude , what game have u been playing ? it has always been /always will be only radiant enchs coz bad design , and this is a bug that's getting passed on as a "mechanic " , even if all this BS is real power is by far superior as u don't need to depend on your god know what % to crit , coz im sure as hell it's not 100% so there is a % it won't crit , then gl healing if u don't crit lols
i rather depend on smth more solid like power /outheals
What evidence do u have that its a bug? Are u involve in the design process of making this mechanic? Or is it something that u don't approve and call it a bug? Most importantly, is the mechanic doing what its intended by the designer? If so what right do u have to call it a bug when the designer himself says its intended? U guys just likes to claim things the way u like without even bother with reality.
Despite I wrote, that Oathkeeper is favoured by this "mechanic" i have to revert this into: Oathkeeper can pretty much run a zero crit build and dish out far over 50% crit up to 90% with his major healing spell by using some feature. So this is more benefitial for Soulweaver and Devout with a small budget.
How do u calculate that when the developer only provide us with the relation between power and healing crit? I mean we don't even know if the ratio of 1:1 gives 50% crit chance or 100 crit chance? or are there any crit cap for healing? The same question goes for the people who claim pure power is the way to go. I think I'll wait till further testing and confirmation by the community before I make any comment on which is better.
so sorry and late to the healing debate, and quite new to game. I'm just trying to get outgoing heal % as high as possible, and have good power and good critical stats, this ok?
One other question the +10% healing output for companions items like Necklace of the lost Commander dont work in MOD 16?
It opens up option for player to weight on how much power vs crit they are gonna distribute according to their build.
This opens up nothing. It accidentally benefits players who end up otherwise overcapped on crit and lacking in Power. No one with resources is going to deliberately decrease their power and massively overcap their crit just to get more RNG big heals.
As I outlined before, crit healing can be a nice bonus at times, but because we can no longer hit 100% crit probability, it cannot be relied upon outside of special class mechanics that guarantee a critical result (in which case the power vs. crit formula can be ignored, anyway). Overhealing has no benefits except for Paladin shielding, and shielding beyond what's needed to keep people healthy is wasted, anyway. Consistent results with +Power > random spikes with +Crit over Power.
There is no interpretation of this system makes it advantageous or sensible except possibly the scenario that schietindebux laid out, where is this a potential bonus for new/undergeared players.
@truhart You can safely ignore this entire thread. If you have the resources to do so, build normally (that is, increase your power and leave crit around 68k since that's the effective cap vs. mobs); since you're new to the game, I'm guessing you don't have a ton of RP, AD, and spare enchants lying around, so you might end up benefiting from an increased occurrence of crit healing if your Power is low and your Crit is high. Sorry, not sure about the companion item you mentioned.
I think I'll wait till further testing and confirmation by the community before I make any comment on which is better.
There is no question as to what is better. A crit>power build will never be necessary or overall more beneficial than how most of us have already been building simply because of the way healing works.
As I outlined before, crit healing can be a nice bonus at times, but because we can no longer hit 100% crit probability,
As of now, we only get confirmation that crit for healing work differently and is based on ratio of power vs crit. That just open up more question to possibility of 100% crit. That's why I held any further comment until confirmation.
Overhealing has no benefits except for Paladin shielding, and shielding beyond what's needed to keep people healthy is wasted, anyway.
That's not true. The more damage a shield are able to absorb the less divinity paladin are gonna spend on heal. Its not there to waste. Its there to protect.
There is no question as to what is better. A crit>power build will never be necessary or overall more beneficial than how most of us have already been building simply because of the way healing works.
You only speak for certain class. Obviously u don't speak for paladin.
> @kangkeok said: > No one with resources is going to deliberately decrease their power and massively overcap their crit just to get more RNG big heals. > > > > > Paladin do. Anyone feat Emisarry of warding need crit. > As I outlined before, crit healing can be a nice bonus at times, but because we can no longer hit 100% crit probability, > > > As of now, we only get confirmation that crit for healing work differently and is based on ratio of power vs crit. That just open up more question to possibility of 100% crit. That's why I held any further comment until confirmation. > Overhealing has no benefits except for Paladin shielding, and shielding beyond what's needed to keep people healthy is wasted, anyway. > > > > That's not true. The more damage a shield are able to absorb the less divinity paladin are gonna spend on heal. Its not there to waste. Its there to protect. > > There is no question as to what is better. A crit>power build will never be necessary or overall more beneficial than how most of us have already been building simply because of the way healing works. > > > > You only speak for certain class. Obviously u don't speak for paladin.
Let me put this another way:
Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency?
Whether you finish the fight at 30% or 75% max Divinity doesn’t really matter as long as the healing and shielding support was able to be applied as needed and at sufficient values so as not to disrupt the party. I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage.
If healing were weaker and resource management tighter, I might agree with your point, but trying to mess with crit in this context (where we already have abundant healing bonuses beyond what’s needed) seems like a wasted effort.
68k crit is needed for a dps class to counter the critical avoidance of critters in LoMM and reach the chance of 50% to crit Vs them. Nothing to do with the critical chance for a heal because i dont think us healers are fighting critical avoidance of our party
By that argument, healers would need at most... what? ... 42K crit? If healing-crit directly echoed DPS crit (as most of us, myself included, assumed until this revelation), is what I mean.
Going from a pre-Mod16 dynamic cleric buffer/powersharer support specialist to a... healbot... was hard enough. Now I learn that even my one job... pressing Q (Bastion of Health on my loadout) does not follow the assumed laws of the universe...
If all ITT is true, healers have had all jobs removed except healing... And even the crit of healing is a conditional trade-off with power?
Sad Took.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
From the small test that you will see below too, it seems that indeed Power affects the Critical chance of a heal, strange as it may sound. Specifically, the greater the power is over the critical value , the less Critical Heal % one has and if Power is lower than Crit than you can actually get the up to 50% chance.
The test was done in Stronghold with the help of the Piranhas. I dived it and healed myself 40 to 50 times to have a decent sample size, using the same power or at-will.
Here, with 193k power and 72k Crit I had 10% Critical Heals.
I then dropped the Power to 62k and Critical was left at 70k. And tho I should have 2% less, my Crit heals actually increased to 39%.
I then dropped my power even lower to increase the gap of Power to Crit even more and.... ...the Critical heal% increased to 42%.
So yes, the Dev was actually true to his statement and the difference of Power to Crit actually affects the Critical Heal %. Think of it as the counter stat of Critical is Power when it comes to heals but will test it more on the days to come.
I have to say that this affects ONLY Critical Heals and it affects all 3 healing classes.
In my opinion is best for a dedicated healer to have max Healing bonus % and then try to balance power/Crit ratio to where they like.
Hope it helps.
This is an important topic. And I really DO appreciate your efforts. But, respectfully, the images you shared are not statistically useful evidence.
There are several variables/controls/methodology/sources of error not shared.
1) Describe your control. How "naked" was your test toon? Whom were you healing? What were they wearing? Where were you? When you repeated this test (with power/crit changes), was it with the same identical teammates in same gear in same encounter against same damage all playing it with exactly the same rotations?
2) What did you change? HOW did you shift from power to crit? The images show missing gear. What was the gear? what other (confounding) powers/stats were lost by removing that gear?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency?
You are basically talking about the less than 1% of people in this game. When u reach that level of course its pointless to put it any stat. The same could be said, whats the point of putting in more power when 1 normal heal is sufficient to out heal anything in the game or to full heal someone? U basically beat the game. The problem is 99% of people that have not attain such level require a well plan stat distribution.
I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage
Problem is what the use of power when u don't even have the divinity to execute an attack? 1dmg is always better than 0dmg?
If healing were weaker and resource management tighter, I might agree with your point, but trying to mess with crit in this context (where we already have abundant healing bonuses beyond what’s needed) seems like a wasted effort.
Except that the paladin has such high power that he could full heal someone or out heal anything ingame with his normal heal, I would disagree with u that crit isn't important to paladin. Paladin is basically a crit base healer if u haven't know.
Paladin is indeed a crit healer, but Emissary of Warding combined with Critical Touch - guarantees that your next Divine Touch crits. Overstacking crit is not needed and in the long term would lead to weaker overall heals.
I have a paladin and would never reduce my power in favor of critical strike. Capping it for mobs is more than sufficient for mobs and heals alike.
Paladin is indeed a crit healer, but Emissary of Warding combined with Critical Touch - guarantees that your next Divine Touch crits. Overstacking crit is not needed and in the long term would lead to weaker overall heals.
I have a paladin and would never reduce my power in favor of critical strike. Capping it for mobs is more than sufficient for mobs and heals alike.
Its a question of personal playstyle. Me? I would prefer to have extra chance to proc Emissary of warding instead of depending solely on critical touch.
Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency?
You are basically talking about the less than 1% of people in this game. When u reach that level of course its pointless to put it any stat. The same could be said, whats the point of putting in more power when 1 normal heal is sufficient to out heal anything in the game or to full heal someone? U basically beat the game. The problem is 99% of people that have not attain such level require a well plan stat distribution.
I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage
Problem is what the use of power when u don't even have the divinity to execute an attack? 1dmg is always better than 0dmg?
If healing were weaker and resource management tighter, I might agree with your point, but trying to mess with crit in this context (where we already have abundant healing bonuses beyond what’s needed) seems like a wasted effort.
Except that the paladin has such high power that he could full heal someone or out heal anything ingame with his normal heal, I would disagree with u that crit isn't important to paladin. Paladin is basically a crit base healer if u haven't know.
I get the feeling that we aren't on the same wavelength.
No, I'm not speaking only of the top 1%.
I don't want to keep restating my position, so I'll just refer you to my previous comments about resource management and healing in general and ask you to consider what difference it makes where you end up Divinity-wise as long as you aren't starved for it at any point and everyone is adequately healed and shielded. Since you can achieve this result without skewing your stats unfavorably (beyond dropping some Power companion bonuses for Outgoing Healing), why bother changing anything?
So my stoopid question of the day is this - Does crit severity impact crit healing like it does damage on critical hits?
There are no stupid questions... Only stupid answers
Vorpal and elixir do work with heals.
Sadly because devs removed the weapon enchant slot from the test weapons (why???) I can't give precise numbers but if you look at the log above you can see: a. Non critical heal (at 50ish K) b. Crit heal without using Vorpal, at 100% base Crit severity (which means double heal) at 105k. c. Crit heal with Vorpal and Elixir for a total of 160% Crit severity. Adding 60% Crit severity means 30% more heal and in our case we get a 143k heal. 143k / 105k = 36%, which is about right, since the heal values will fluctuate due to the low/high value of weapon damage.
My crits are near 3 times the ammount of my non crits, Vorpal, elixir working. Same as I do agree with thestia , talking about Oathkeeper. You crit every 7-8 seconds guarantee with DT (DS not working) on all teammember, by that you don´t need 1% crit and can focus on power. But in general the effectiveness of crit heals are so much better using a vorp etc, so I stay with this pretty unlogical balanced crit system, just in case I have to use anything else than Divine Touch, actually I don´t... never
0
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
edited June 2019
Thx to all the people who actually test this, because no official answer from devs...
I don't want to keep restating my position, so I'll just refer you to my previous comments about resource management and healing in general and ask you to consider what difference it makes where you end up Divinity-wise as long as you aren't starved for it at any point and everyone is adequately healed and shielded. Since you can achieve this result without skewing your stats unfavorably (beyond dropping some Power companion bonuses for Outgoing Healing), why bother changing anything?
Pardon me if I miss your point, I'm assuming u are referring to
Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency? I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage
To further elaborate my last respond, yes, I'm making a case where extra resources could be spent on more damage. Define overcapped. 110% crit? As for underpowered build, that boils down to how much divinity u are able to save with Emissary of warding vs power stacking build. That will determine on how many smite/bane each build can pull with their respective resource. Can the % damage gain from those power u stacked enough to compensate those number of smite/bane that power stacking build lack due to the lesser resource available compare to the other build?
Anyway, your theory on power > crit doesn't really apply to paladin due to,
1. it is impractical to stack power to a level where it could fully blue barred a player with just normal heal or out barrier against emissary of warding.
2. Smaller barrier require more spam of divine touch to keep the barrier up.
3. even if u have sufficient outgoing heal to sustain a person health, due to point number 2, u will always need more divinity to maintain such state. That is if the heals and divinity are in a sufficient state. If its in a stress situation, Power stacking build are more susceptible to fail compare to a balanced crit/emissary build due to the amount of resource reserved. Although divine vessel feat might help the situation but that has a cooldown or 3 min. In short, Crit/emissary build are more forgivable in handling bad mistake by the group.
4, Overheal does not apply to paladin.
Conclusion,
So paladin healing are different from DC or SW. They play with divine barrier. They wont experience overheal situation unlike the other class where their heal are limit by their target hp pool. Paladin need crit to proc Emissary in order to maintain a large barrier, thus provide a better protection. Its just impractical to stack power high enough to have a barrier greater than emissary with your normal heal. So no. Paladin is not subject to your theory.
> So my stoopid question of the day is this - Does crit severity impact crit healing like it does damage on critical hits?
It used to xD
Edit: after testing my paladin in solo etos with and without vorpal enchant I will say without a doubt crit severity increases the numbers on crit heals. Avg hit on crit without vorpal was 44,000 with vorpal rank 8 avg was 52k this was using critical touch to ensure the heals crit.(spammed at wills until it procced)
So my stoopid question of the day is this - Does crit severity impact crit healing like it does damage on critical hits?
There are no stupid questions... Only stupid answers
Vorpal and elixir do work with heals.
Sadly because devs removed the weapon enchant slot from the test weapons (why???) I can't give precise numbers but if you look at the log above you can see: a. Non critical heal (at 50ish K) b. Crit heal without using Vorpal, at 100% base Crit severity (which means double heal) at 105k. c. Crit heal with Vorpal and Elixir for a total of 160% Crit severity. Adding 60% Crit severity means 30% more heal and in our case we get a 143k heal. 143k / 105k = 36%, which is about right, since the heal values will fluctuate due to the low/high value of weapon damage.
Hope it helped.
So I'm keeping my vorpal slotted and while I do have both Crit Touch and Emissary selected, I'm of a similar mind to @kangkeok in that I would like to find that sweet spot for additional chances to proc EoW rather than relying on crit touch alone. Thanks for the testing Apollo.
> @kangkeok said: > I don't want to keep restating my position, so I'll just refer you to my previous comments about resource management and healing in general and ask you to consider what difference it makes where you end up Divinity-wise as long as you aren't starved for it at any point and everyone is adequately healed and shielded. Since you can achieve this result without skewing your stats unfavorably (beyond dropping some Power companion bonuses for Outgoing Healing), why bother changing anything? > > Pardon me if I miss your point, I'm assuming u are referring to Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency? I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage > > To further elaborate my last respond, yes, I'm making a case where extra resources could be spent on more damage. Define overcapped. 110% crit? As for underpowered build, that boils down to how much divinity u are able to save with Emissary of warding vs power stacking build. That will determine on how many smite/bane each build can pull with their respective resource. Can the % damage gain from those power u stacked enough to compensate those number of smite/bane that power stacking build lack due to the lesser resource available compare to the other build? > > Anyway, your theory on power > crit doesn't really apply to paladin due to, > > 1. it is impractical to stack power to a level where it could fully blue barred a player with just normal heal or out barrier against emissary of warding. > > 2. Smaller barrier require more spam of divine touch to keep the barrier up. > > 3. even if u have sufficient outgoing heal to sustain a person health, due to point number 2, u will always need more divinity to maintain such state. That is if the heals and divinity are in a sufficient state. If its in a stress situation, Power stacking build are more susceptible to fail compare to a balanced crit/emissary build due to the amount of resource reserved. Although divine vessel feat might help the situation but that has a cooldown or 3 min. In short, Crit/emissary build are more forgivable in handling bad mistake by the group. > > 4, Overheal does not apply to paladin. > > Conclusion, > > So paladin healing are different from DC or SW. They play with divine barrier. They wont experience overheal situation unlike the other class where their heal are limit by their target hp pool. Paladin need crit to proc Emissary in order to maintain a large barrier, thus provide a better protection. Its just impractical to stack power high enough to have a barrier greater than emissary with your normal heal. So no. Paladin is not subject to your theory.
We simply don’t see it the same way, but that’s fine. If I believed that a significant damage increase could be achieved with the method you describe, I would agree; it’s just that I don’t see that happening.
Paladin might be the only class not in need of crit, even though some did not understand how and why referring to another thread, my heals crit even with 1%critchance >50%. So actually playing an Oathkeeper at optimum, it will save more Divinity by doing a 100% crit Divine Touch with 200k power and put a >300k barrier on all teammember and go drink a coffee or two, instead putting a 100k power crit on them. But actually the ammount of 120k crit does not lead to a better dps, on a paladin it will drop your dps sacrifing the same amount of power. Same as running 140k power + 80k crit vs. 110k power plus 110k crit on a let's say warlock or DC might only lead to a small increase in healing output and drops damage output same way. The only plus about all this is, that I can easily push my crit towards higher amounts, since near all gear has plus crit and 1compgear can be switched from defense to offense. So thx again for sharing.
Comments
Also the developer's design does not require anyone to hold them accounted for anything. They are the rule maker. The player need to accept it. Just like 68k cap. That's how the games work. U play with your stat accordingly.
> Actually the main reason for all this butthurt is people assume. If u guys didn't know, those 68k stat cap rule are discovered and catalogued by player through multiple time of testing and recording during the m16 preview. Those knowledge are shared with u guys out of good faith. U guys should be thankful and at least know where those info came from and appreciate the player who did those testing, and not blaming the developer for no reason.
>
> Likewise, those info that Asterdahl relay are also out of good faith. If its not for him, someone in the community need to do another testing to find out about healing crit mechanic. So instead of blaming, u guys should be thankful to the developer for revealing this info.
>
> I don't think it's at all about blaming developers for not spoon-feeding the information upfront. It's about calling out the questionable decision to have crit healing work in this fashion.
>
> It's not as if this is the secret to great healing revealed; this information is basically irrelevant to actual gameplay. The only difference is that most of us were thinking that crit healing was bugged, and we now learned that it works poorly by design.
>
> Poorly design are subjective. In my opinion, its a good design. It opens up option for player to weight on how much power vs crit they are gonna distribute according to their build. Else everyone gonna just stack power and anything that has no power stat in it are worthless. Be it Insignia or enchantment.
>
> Also the developer's design does not require anyone to hold them accounted for anything. They are the rule maker. The player need to accept it. Just like 68k cap. That's how the games work. U play with your stat accordingly.
uhm dude , what game have u been playing ? it has always been /always will be only radiant enchs coz bad design , and this is a bug that's getting passed on as a "mechanic " , even if all this BS is real power is by far superior as u don't need to depend on your god know what % to crit , coz im sure as hell it's not 100% so there is a % it won't crit , then gl healing if u don't crit lols
i rather depend on smth more solid like power /outheals
So for a low geared player this is a pretty good way to rise his healing output, no matter if or if not this is a bug or intended, I don´t really mind tbh.
If this makes sense or not is a pretty subjective thing. I don´t see much sense in it, but I also don´t think about blaming anyone.
Thx for sharing, it´s a cheaper way to improve the effectiveness.
Despite I wrote, that Oathkeeper is favoured by this "mechanic" i have to revert this into: Oathkeeper can pretty much run a zero crit build and dish out far over 50% crit up to 90% with his major healing spell by using some feature. So this is more benefitial for Soulweaver and Devout with a small budget.
One other question the +10% healing output for companions items like Necklace of the lost Commander dont work in MOD 16?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
As I outlined before, crit healing can be a nice bonus at times, but because we can no longer hit 100% crit probability, it cannot be relied upon outside of special class mechanics that guarantee a critical result (in which case the power vs. crit formula can be ignored, anyway). Overhealing has no benefits except for Paladin shielding, and shielding beyond what's needed to keep people healthy is wasted, anyway. Consistent results with +Power > random spikes with +Crit over Power.
There is no interpretation of this system makes it advantageous or sensible except possibly the scenario that schietindebux laid out, where is this a potential bonus for new/undergeared players.
@truhart You can safely ignore this entire thread. If you have the resources to do so, build normally (that is, increase your power and leave crit around 68k since that's the effective cap vs. mobs); since you're new to the game, I'm guessing you don't have a ton of RP, AD, and spare enchants lying around, so you might end up benefiting from an increased occurrence of crit healing if your Power is low and your Crit is high. Sorry, not sure about the companion item you mentioned.
Edit: Because I missed this tidbit... There is no question as to what is better. A crit>power build will never be necessary or overall more beneficial than how most of us have already been building simply because of the way healing works.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
That's not true. The more damage a shield are able to absorb the less divinity paladin are gonna spend on heal. Its not there to waste. Its there to protect.
You only speak for certain class. Obviously u don't speak for paladin.
> No one with resources is going to deliberately decrease their power and massively overcap their crit just to get more RNG big heals.
>
>
>
>
> Paladin do. Anyone feat Emisarry of warding need crit.
> As I outlined before, crit healing can be a nice bonus at times, but because we can no longer hit 100% crit probability,
>
>
> As of now, we only get confirmation that crit for healing work differently and is based on ratio of power vs crit. That just open up more question to possibility of 100% crit. That's why I held any further comment until confirmation.
> Overhealing has no benefits except for Paladin shielding, and shielding beyond what's needed to keep people healthy is wasted, anyway.
>
>
>
> That's not true. The more damage a shield are able to absorb the less divinity paladin are gonna spend on heal. Its not there to waste. Its there to protect.
>
> There is no question as to what is better. A crit>power build will never be necessary or overall more beneficial than how most of us have already been building simply because of the way healing works.
>
>
>
> You only speak for certain class. Obviously u don't speak for paladin.
Let me put this another way:
Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency?
Whether you finish the fight at 30% or 75% max Divinity doesn’t really matter as long as the healing and shielding support was able to be applied as needed and at sufficient values so as not to disrupt the party. I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage.
If healing were weaker and resource management tighter, I might agree with your point, but trying to mess with crit in this context (where we already have abundant healing bonuses beyond what’s needed) seems like a wasted effort.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
If healing-crit directly echoed DPS crit (as most of us, myself included, assumed until this revelation), is what I mean.
Going from a pre-Mod16 dynamic cleric buffer/powersharer support specialist to a... healbot... was hard enough.
Now I learn that even my one job... pressing Q (Bastion of Health on my loadout) does not follow the assumed laws of the universe...
If all ITT is true, healers have had all jobs removed except healing...
And even the crit of healing is a conditional trade-off with power?
Sad Took.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
And I really DO appreciate your efforts.
But, respectfully, the images you shared are not statistically useful evidence.
There are several variables/controls/methodology/sources of error not shared.
1) Describe your control.
How "naked" was your test toon?
Whom were you healing?
What were they wearing?
Where were you?
When you repeated this test (with power/crit changes), was it with the same identical teammates in same gear in same encounter against same damage all playing it with exactly the same rotations?
2) What did you change?
HOW did you shift from power to crit?
The images show missing gear. What was the gear? what other (confounding) powers/stats were lost by removing that gear?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
I have a paladin and would never reduce my power in favor of critical strike. Capping it for mobs is more than sufficient for mobs and heals alike.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
No, I'm not speaking only of the top 1%.
I don't want to keep restating my position, so I'll just refer you to my previous comments about resource management and healing in general and ask you to consider what difference it makes where you end up Divinity-wise as long as you aren't starved for it at any point and everyone is adequately healed and shielded. Since you can achieve this result without skewing your stats unfavorably (beyond dropping some Power companion bonuses for Outgoing Healing), why bother changing anything?
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Vorpal and elixir do work with heals.
Sadly because devs removed the weapon enchant slot from the test weapons (why???) I can't give precise numbers but if you look at the log above you can see:
a. Non critical heal (at 50ish K)
b. Crit heal without using Vorpal, at 100% base Crit severity (which means double heal) at 105k.
c. Crit heal with Vorpal and Elixir for a total of 160% Crit severity. Adding 60% Crit severity means 30% more heal and in our case we get a 143k heal. 143k / 105k = 36%, which is about right, since the heal values will fluctuate due to the low/high value of weapon damage.
Hope it helped.
You crit every 7-8 seconds guarantee with DT (DS not working) on all teammember, by that you don´t need 1% crit and can focus on power. But in general the effectiveness of crit heals are so much better using a vorp etc, so I stay with this pretty unlogical balanced crit system, just in case I have to use anything else than Divine Touch, actually I don´t... never
Anyway, your theory on power > crit doesn't really apply to paladin due to,
1. it is impractical to stack power to a level where it could fully blue barred a player with just normal heal or out barrier against emissary of warding.
2. Smaller barrier require more spam of divine touch to keep the barrier up.
3. even if u have sufficient outgoing heal to sustain a person health, due to point number 2, u will always need more divinity to maintain such state. That is if the heals and divinity are in a sufficient state. If its in a stress situation, Power stacking build are more susceptible to fail compare to a balanced crit/emissary build due to the amount of resource reserved. Although divine vessel feat might help the situation but that has a cooldown or 3 min. In short, Crit/emissary build are more forgivable in handling bad mistake by the group.
4, Overheal does not apply to paladin.
Conclusion,
So paladin healing are different from DC or SW. They play with divine barrier. They wont experience overheal situation unlike the other class where their heal are limit by their target hp pool. Paladin need crit to proc Emissary in order to maintain a large barrier, thus provide a better protection. Its just impractical to stack power high enough to have a barrier greater than emissary with your normal heal. So no. Paladin is not subject to your theory.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
> I don't want to keep restating my position, so I'll just refer you to my previous comments about resource management and healing in general and ask you to consider what difference it makes where you end up Divinity-wise as long as you aren't starved for it at any point and everyone is adequately healed and shielded. Since you can achieve this result without skewing your stats unfavorably (beyond dropping some Power companion bonuses for Outgoing Healing), why bother changing anything?
>
> Pardon me if I miss your point, I'm assuming u are referring to Once you’ve reached the point where your healing and shielding are more than sufficient, what further use do you have for more crits or even for more resource efficiency? I suppose you could make the case that these extra resources could be spent on more damage, but an overcapped/underpowered build will already suffer in damage
>
> To further elaborate my last respond, yes, I'm making a case where extra resources could be spent on more damage. Define overcapped. 110% crit? As for underpowered build, that boils down to how much divinity u are able to save with Emissary of warding vs power stacking build. That will determine on how many smite/bane each build can pull with their respective resource. Can the % damage gain from those power u stacked enough to compensate those number of smite/bane that power stacking build lack due to the lesser resource available compare to the other build?
>
> Anyway, your theory on power > crit doesn't really apply to paladin due to,
>
> 1. it is impractical to stack power to a level where it could fully blue barred a player with just normal heal or out barrier against emissary of warding.
>
> 2. Smaller barrier require more spam of divine touch to keep the barrier up.
>
> 3. even if u have sufficient outgoing heal to sustain a person health, due to point number 2, u will always need more divinity to maintain such state. That is if the heals and divinity are in a sufficient state. If its in a stress situation, Power stacking build are more susceptible to fail compare to a balanced crit/emissary build due to the amount of resource reserved. Although divine vessel feat might help the situation but that has a cooldown or 3 min. In short, Crit/emissary build are more forgivable in handling bad mistake by the group.
>
> 4, Overheal does not apply to paladin.
>
> Conclusion,
>
> So paladin healing are different from DC or SW. They play with divine barrier. They wont experience overheal situation unlike the other class where their heal are limit by their target hp pool. Paladin need crit to proc Emissary in order to maintain a large barrier, thus provide a better protection. Its just impractical to stack power high enough to have a barrier greater than emissary with your normal heal. So no. Paladin is not subject to your theory.
We simply don’t see it the same way, but that’s fine. If I believed that a significant damage increase could be achieved with the method you describe, I would agree; it’s just that I don’t see that happening.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
But actually the ammount of 120k crit does not lead to a better dps, on a paladin it will drop your dps sacrifing the same amount of power.
Same as running 140k power + 80k crit vs. 110k power plus 110k crit on a let's say warlock or DC might only lead to a small increase in healing output and drops damage output same way.
The only plus about all this is, that I can easily push my crit towards higher amounts, since near all gear has plus crit and 1compgear can be switched from defense to offense.
So thx again for sharing.