There is no point anymore just leave the game the mess it is and save everyone the heartache.
I disagree with this piece of your statement. They should revert to mod 15 until they have worked out all the problems. Going live with a broken game is the best way to kill off a game and a paying customer base.
Meanwhile, a level 70 character that never before got one-shot by a lowbie mob in (lets say) the Drowning Shore can't even take two steps on a mount without getting whack-a-moled! All of these class changes (and scaling) in mod 16 are proving to be decidedly game-breaking!
Congratulations! You've succeeded in making Anthem look more playable than Neverwinter!
Logging off.
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
Meanwhile, a level 70 character that never before got one-shot by a lowbie mob in (lets say) the Drowning Shore can't even take two steps on a mount without getting whack-a-moled! All of these class changes (and scaling) in mod 16 are proving to be decidedly game-breaking!
Congratulations! You've succeeded in making Anthem look more playable than Neverwinter!
Logging off.
Happened to me with the AA quest where you save NEverember's son. Those crabs at the beginning.....you know in classic Doom where you die, your fave looks like raw hamburger?
From "sootynukkels": Are we just not supposed to be able to reach our stat caps in Scaled content? How is this in live with your own words of Player Progression?
Ahoy sootynukkels and thanks again for attending the Q&A session and for your question. As I stated in the stream, I didn’t quite understand your question, but I’ve had time to parse it a bit, and I think I have answers for you. For scaled content players equipped items, companions, and boons are all scaled to a level to create an appropriate challenge in the content. In unscaled content areas you will still hit your ratings caps. Being at ratings caps in unscaled areas doesn’t mean that you be hitting them in scaled content.
You issue an apology for not listening, for not getting the message from players.
Then you continue to do the things that players are telling you not to do.
An apology without a change in behaviour is meaningless.
———
You fixed “double scaling”, by introducing a new version of double scaling (Weapon Damage is the base of all damage, scaling it is literally double scaling when you are forcing capped characters below cap).
The correct thing for the game is to remove scaling and not reintroduce it until you do so in a way that meets your goals without punishing players for achieving the ideal stats of the game.
Remove scaling and finish the classes and fix their bugs.
Remove scaling and fix the bugs in dungeons.
Only then should you go back to scaling.
Fix scaling and test it, test it some more and then test it again.
Even if this isn’t ready by Mod 17, it is far better for the game that RLQ through to RAQ be easy, than they be inaccessible bugged content for all players.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
> @autumnwitch > > Also, from a simple consumer and legal perspective you better change every tool tip in the Zen store on ANYTHING that gives us stats (mounts, companions) because as of now, they don't indicate "+2000 power unless you are running lower level stuff where you will receive considerably less". If I pay for something to boost my damn stats/gear it better do what it says or you are going to owe thousands of people refunds and run the risk of horrible press in age where the government is already looking to clamp down on games like NW who use loot boxes anyway. > > SMDH
This is a really good and significant point, from a legal perspective the way your tool tips are currently worded leaves you wide open to legal challenges, certainly in the uk under the trade descriptions act, and i bet in a significant number of other countries you operate in.
"Trade Descriptions Act 2011 – Its purpose is to promote good trade practices by prohibiting false trade descriptionsand false or misleading statements, conduct and practices in relation to the supply of goods and services."
Is there anyone in this forum who doesnt think your tool tips could be construed as misleasing?
3
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Hey folks! The written-up responses extracted from the chat log will be made available next week (parsing through chat manually!) but Thomas wanted to follow up on the last question that was asked during the stream. He asked me to pass along this answer:
*** From "sootynukkels": Are we just not supposed to be able to reach our stat caps in Scaled content? How is this in live with your own words of Player Progression?
Ahoy sootynukkels and thanks again for attending the Q&A session and for your question. As I stated in the stream, I didn’t quite understand your question, but I’ve had time to parse it a bit, and I think I have answers for you. For scaled content players equipped items, companions, and boons are all scaled to a level to create an appropriate challenge in the content. In unscaled content areas you will still hit your ratings caps. Being at ratings caps in unscaled areas doesn’t mean that you be hitting them in scaled content.
Going forward we intend to have the expert queue dungeons unscaled as well as the two newest campaigns. With the launch of M16 the two newest campaigns were Undermountain and Acqinc, which is a special campaign. With that in mind, and players having a more limited selection of unscaled content, we are patching Barovia to be unscaled until we have newer campaigns that can fill that role. And very soon the Lair of the Mad Mage dungeon will open up to test the full potential of your character. Thanks again for the questions.
Thomas “M.K.” Foss
Except you released LOTMM in a broken state as well. After having it in a good place the last week of preview.
dungeons now its all about positioning/learn boss mechanics, first boss cocoon player needs to be healed, each player pick a mimic spawn spot and kill it, 2nd boss there is a phase the boss blast rocks on team time save when to use those heals/protection spells/ maybe paladin tab also potions well timed, last boss its similar to old spellplague cavern last boss mechanic also there is a phase you need to destroy electric charge pillars, repat till boss hp nis 0, it seems to favor ranged dps classes, even in well of dragon, dragon heralds event, on blue dragon player weren't timing when to doge red circles and time to move away from close red circle for poison on green dragon or lightning charge field around blue, instead of just spam powers players need to learn mechanics. And please before working on item level, worry to have overall balance cap values for your stats rating to do the dungeon its not about your item level, if you have the item level and don't have the overall caps(1 player only might be possible to carry, more that one player will be a knightmare).
Being at ratings caps in unscaled areas doesn’t mean that you be hitting them in scaled content.
Julia, Thom,
I don't want this to be yet another angry tirade.
But THIS is the problem. I'm not sure how or why you don't seem to get why this is the serious issue for players that it is.
Let me ask, what is the reason, given you built efficiency caps INTO the ratings (50% Crit cap, etc) that when you drop into OLD content you are not allowed to hit those caps, when in a situation that cannot be regarded as anything other than utterly ridiculous alongside that, it's both possible and allowed, to hit those ratings caps in higher level or "harder" content?
Stating the problem, but not realising that what you are saying IS the problem, while saying you are on with fixing the problem, does not inspire confidence that you are engaged in fixing THE problem.
This is JUST like when you introduced Random Queues. Lots of people pointed out that the structure of the lists was bad, and would lead to all sorts of problems. The main problem (apart from the amount of rAD players would be able to earn via multiple toons) was obvious, and clear. People playing L70 characters below the IL threshold for FBI/MSPC would not be able to play any L70 Dungeon and earn a daily rAD reward. You pressed on with it, it broke. I don't know about other people but that one decision devastated my small guild. Eventually you had some sort of epiphany and changed it.
You will not have the luxury of time on your side to come to eventual realisation that Scaling is broken in a way that makes the launch of Random Queues look like someone got the colours the wrong way round on a dye pack.
There's an old British sitcom called Father Ted, and in one episode Father Ted is trying to explain "perspective" to Father Dougal. They are in a caravan, and looking out of a window at the farmland beyond, and Ted has some small farmyard toys on the table in front of them.. he picks up two plastic cows...
Ted: "OK, one last time... these are small the ones out there are far away. Small... far away... ahh forget it.
Dougal picks up a pair of binoculars and looks out the window with them...
Dougal: "Ted... you know how sometimes your eyes play tricks on you?"
I think Cryptic may be suffering the same as Father Dougal... a disconcerting lack of persepctive.
You said that players asked for those changes - and I admit I heard calls for changes. Me, personally - I always regretted that there is no joy in levelling areas once your level is too high... or that the stacking buff craziness meant that something, where DPS party struggles, is cleared with buff/debuff party in a single second. Yes, those were clearly issues, but you really took the solution to extremes.
So, what now? As for the scaling, MY personal advice would be: For each map level hardcap weapon dmg and health (each class or paragon path separately of course) and figure out by trial and error how to scale Power. What difference will that bring compared to your idea of scaling everything? Simply put: if you accidentally level up on the map, you will not suddenly get weaker. Level 80 character will no longer be penalised against lvl 70 in no way - in the worst case scenario they will stand on the same ground. But wait, there is a benefit to that too! This way you might find that in older content can the older weapons/gear be preferable - you would make a desire to collect some old rarities/obsolete items. Sure, just for the specific content... but that would mean we need more bag space, refining items... you know;) And this way, in a levelling content, if you struggle, you can level up somewhere and come back later - more powerful. (but as there is a cap, you will never be a god)
While I would consider this an improvement, it will still displease many. Because many enjoy being gods... So my second suggestion would be: make it voluntary. Simply tick this and you are scaled. Of course, for dungeons that would mean all participants or none - but we had it here in some sense already: the k-team. It worked. (oh, one more thing: ticking the scaling for a dungeon should put additional loot pool from players highest opened campaign to the final chests - or the option will surely not be used frequently)
At this point I'm beginning to think they are seriously understaffed and the few coders they have are so overworked that they can't see straight, either that or their coding is outsourced to the nearest kindergarten. Either way, this whole mod 16 thing is just such a massive failure in management. I have never in my 30 years of gaming seen such a trainwreck. Lofty plans mean fk-all if you can't reach them, and that's the managements job to know that plans are somewhat realistic. If you've got 4 people coding, then maybe don't redo the whole game, mkay? Good lord...
@oremonger#9999 This is the best description of the current state of the game that I have read in a long while. Regretfully I think that it will fall on deaf ears. I speculate that there may be a few reasons for the deafness: Firstly all of the changes were instigated to test the waters for the MTG mmo and Mr Foss and the devs on NW are not allowed to reverse any of the new systems. Secondly, the devs know that the changes in Mod 16 are a failure ( not the campaign) but do not have the staff to rip them out and reintroduce a modified version bit by bit. (I find it hard to believe that there are not back up files as at the end of Mod 15). Lastly, Mod 16 changes are Mr Foss’s ‘baby’ and he is too invested in them to accept that they just do not work. Whatever the reason you are right that this is no longer the game that we loved to play.
People have been saying all this for the last 3 months and they have been ignored, unless its an exploit like the one from last week (you could get random queue ad bonus on multiple characters) wich they fixed immediately obviously, they don't care...
ugh f*** it,my last thoughts before i stop bothering with the forums
Putting scalling aside, game is overall boring...
I can't even pass lvl 10 on a new toon, 10-16 at-wills to kill the weakest critter?? no ty.. My dc is boring.. My paladin, well i won't even bother to talk about that because that class is just ugh..
The thing is, when end game players asked for a challenge they were talking about Dungeons not campaign areas , i actually think killing time was fine for new and mid-game players but now is just a HAMSTER show
You can do radom q's with random people, but be ready to sweat your HAMSTER off and half the time you most likely will not finish the dungeon because they either don't know what to do even if you tell them in chat or because they don't ahve the stats... And if you manage to finish them , you will just get mod 6 garbage, or a useles peridot/aquamarine... The other half of the dungeons you won't be able to finish is because they are bugged and have been bugged since they came out.... At ''end game'' aside from ME's you have nothing to do...
I remember people saying '' it can't be worst than mod 6'' oh how i wish that was true....
I’m beginning to think the project lead on this game is mentally challenged, has no clue how to actually run a project or both.
Just get rid of this stupid <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>* scaling. I don’t know a single god damn player that asked for this pile of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you’ve dumped on us.
There’s no reason to buy anything from the zen store...it’s all scaled down.
There’s no reason for any of us to run lower ques, leaving the lowbies to sit and wait for their leveling que to pop. This completely undoes the reason for creating the dumb <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> random ques in the first place.
Since you’ve already slapped your customer in the face repeatedly I say f*ck this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, take your broke <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> game and pray you have an active base in a few months.
Borderlands 3 in September and Days Gone for now...
after seeing mod16 and the scale job you guys did that it just feels like no point in playing your game cause after seeing the mobs and either stuff you over powered how are we suppose to take them down when we cant why im so tired of of dying to everything why I want mod15 back
Pet and Mount Equip Powers are not scaled. (At least last I checked.)
The erosion of the value of the Chultan Tiger is something I understand being annoyed about, I remember when Augments were made redundant a long time ago, it hurt a lot with 9 toons with Augments. Times change and the value of things change. (I only had 3 Tigers, and only 1 was made Legendary, so this didn’t hurt as much.)
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
How will you defend your wrong decisions? I wonder...
I went yesterday to check Barovia. You said it would not be scaled and... well, you lied, as usual. I was scaled BELOW HALF of my stats from lvl 80. My defense was scaled so low I got oneshotted. Seriously, swallow your pride and roll back to Mod 15 because not only scaling in this mod but literally everything is done WRONG.
As John Cleese on "How to Irritate People" said, "It's not so much inefficiency itself that's irritating, but the refusal to admit inefficiency".
Seeing as several people are complaining about server problems and lag and stuff. It isn't geographical location as much. I take it atleast half the chat was 'do away with the scaling' ?
No, he's been complaining about the lag even when others don't. I wasn't saying that lag isn't an issue, just that his is more because he's in Turkey.
Well I have lag, and I am in the USA... Florida ..... and the lag is horrendous at times.....
Well, would you like to know a fast fix for the broken healer companions? Just give them the same abilities and settings as those "Whips" frog creatures have in the Twisted Caverns. Problem solved.
> Pet and Mount Equip Powers are not scaled. (At least last I checked.)
>
> The erosion of the value of the Chultan Tiger is something I understand being annoyed about, I remember when Augments were made redundant a long time ago, it hurt a lot with 9 toons with Augments. Times change and the value of things change. (I only had 3 Tigers, and only 1 was made Legendary, so this didn’t hurt as much.)
only 3? i have 5 and i took them all to legendary......at about $20 each thats a big slap in the face (not to mention the additional 1,000,000 AD each to make them legendary)
I have three at legendary (5 if you count across all platforms) but they were the bis pet for over a year. I do feel like I got my ad's worth out of them. I would never spend cash on a game like this for the bis flavor of the month. we actually got a lot more time out of him than normal for a bis pet. it seems like nothing ever stays bis for more than six months with comps. I remember all the pressure over the sword trio. I stood firm on that and didn't poney up the ad or resources because I knew danged well they weren't going to keep their throne. they did not. with all the current things to get mad about this particular topic just seems like a distraction from actual game killing points.
Lead Designer - Is responsible for the teams under him, and gives them general direction or accept/deny suggested ideas in general, or in this case systems designers team in particular. He is the Overall direction of NW Boss.
The question was understandable for everyone who understands the core issue with how scaling is implemented. Via Caps.
I'm in full agreement. He may not be directly working on systems but he must have some involvement if only working through the idea.
The question regarding capped stats was easily understandable. The response he gave was not one you want to see coming from the man in charge.
To me he came across like "Does not compute. I don't know what the main component behind this new system does. I've never heard of stat capping before in my life. I just work here. Move along. Double AD people we love you!"
I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped.
What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful. The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system.
This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation. Thanks again for this dialogue. M.K.
> @mimicking#6533 said: > Lead Designer - Is responsible for the teams under him, and gives them general direction or accept/deny suggested ideas in general, or in this case systems designers team in particular. > He is the Overall direction of NW Boss. > > The question was understandable for everyone who understands the core issue with how scaling is implemented. Via Caps. > > > I'm in full agreement. He may not be directly working on systems but he must have some involvement if only working through the idea. > > The question regarding capped stats was easily understandable. The response he gave was not one you want to see coming from the man in charge. > > To me he came across like "Does not compute. I don't know what the main component behind this new system does. I've never heard of stat capping before in my life. I just work here. Move along. Double AD people we love you!" > > > I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped. > > What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful. > The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system. > > This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation. > Thanks again for this dialogue. > M.K.
Not a done deal, but ongoing conversation ? Guess what while you're still talking, people are walking out the door. Get this fixed quickly before you're left talking to an empty room.
> I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped. > > What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful. > The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system. > > This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation. > Thanks again for this dialogue. > M.K.
Ok, we appreciate that you're trying to keep an open dialog. However this still shows you're not listening.
Scaling should not be 'arbitrarily lose 50%' of your earned progress. Level 80 players with strong gear should not feel weaker than lower level players when scaled.
Due to the new system of opposing stats, it shouldn't matter what our armor pen, crit ratings, defense, deflect etc is. If we have enough for the content we've entered, we should be good. If you scale anything, just power, weapon damage, hp. Scale those to be in line or maybe 10% higher than a level 70. Let us keep some power. Without the pen, defense, etc we are magnitudes weaker. We'd need 100k pen to reach 50k scaled.
We are weaker when we get to 80 and it's not fun.
All this makes me suspect there are systems for scaling in place that weren't built by your team, that you can't change, and you have to work around them.
scaling with a cap is not what the player base wants or needs. you need to keep progression in. some content SHOULD Be a cake walk for the highly geared player. we should have a choice of being able to stomp thru content or not if we've spent the time money or whatever to get there. current dungeons with the best reward should be difficult and take coordination. older content should be easily doable.
We should not be penalized to the point of being weaker than a level 70 especially when that level 70 isn't somewhere you can be for any extended length of time. imo all the old dungeons should be level 80. there should be a clear reason to have tiers of dungeon. those lower tiered dungeons should help progression for non bis toons. the high tiered dungeon should be rewarding for bis toons or high skilled non bis toons.
progression should be rewarded by being more powerful. otherwise why play? people play to progress in strength and power. if you deny that kiss your player base goodbye.
if you try to say no matter what you do in older content you will never be more powerful.. then honestly why bother? we don't play to play. we play to get better stuff that makes a difference.
at the end of the day neverwinter should never be a communist state. it should remain the capitalistic endeavor it's always been. that's why most of us love it.
Lead Designer - Is responsible for the teams under him, and gives them general direction or accept/deny suggested ideas in general, or in this case systems designers team in particular. He is the Overall direction of NW Boss.
The question was understandable for everyone who understands the core issue with how scaling is implemented. Via Caps.
I'm in full agreement. He may not be directly working on systems but he must have some involvement if only working through the idea.
The question regarding capped stats was easily understandable. The response he gave was not one you want to see coming from the man in charge.
To me he came across like "Does not compute. I don't know what the main component behind this new system does. I've never heard of stat capping before in my life. I just work here. Move along. Double AD people we love you!"
I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped.
What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful. The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system.
This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation. Thanks again for this dialogue. M.K.
as it currently stands progression in end game is kinda dead and a level 70 charchter can do more dmg in a level 70 content than a level 80 charchter wich should not be the case i mean how can progressing make you less powerful than you were before it just dosn't make any sense if you want us to make a challenge then that's fine but we should have the option not to want to be scaled too some people prefer to run solo runs or solo challenge was a thing but not anymore also the rewards given from old content will never ever be relevant to the game specially as we progress further so scaling is making it even harder for players to want to play old content as the time vs reward is not worth it premod16 we could do CN in 8 mins or so and rewards were pretty garbage to say the least with all due respect to garbage. postmod16 CN needs 20 min or more and the rewards are still same old
so the time investment you put increased without the reward being changed
another point is that the old system was fun and engaging as it required timing and knowledge wich this is a good point for players who like challenge others may not have the sufficient backround to understand how things work but even so the combat system was very engaging after mod 16 the combat is drastically slow and it's mostly hit and run while wait for next encounter so you have no control over the concept of combat
i hope you guys reconsider the way you nerfed buffs and powersharing etc nerfing is easy for you guys but it's not the solution players want to see you always say to roll for initiative but this is far from it
Comments
Meanwhile, a level 70 character that never before got one-shot by a lowbie mob in (lets say) the Drowning Shore can't even take two steps on a mount without getting whack-a-moled! All of these class changes (and scaling) in mod 16 are proving to be decidedly game-breaking!
Congratulations! You've succeeded in making Anthem look more playable than Neverwinter!
Logging off.
That's me with the crabs.
You issue an apology for not listening, for not getting the message from players.
Then you continue to do the things that players are telling you not to do.
An apology without a change in behaviour is meaningless.
———
You fixed “double scaling”, by introducing a new version of double scaling (Weapon Damage is the base of all damage, scaling it is literally double scaling when you are forcing capped characters below cap).
The correct thing for the game is to remove scaling and not reintroduce it until you do so in a way that meets your goals without punishing players for achieving the ideal stats of the game.
Remove scaling and finish the classes and fix their bugs.
Remove scaling and fix the bugs in dungeons.
Only then should you go back to scaling.
Fix scaling and test it, test it some more and then test it again.
Even if this isn’t ready by Mod 17, it is far better for the game that RLQ through to RAQ be easy, than they be inaccessible bugged content for all players.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
>
> Also, from a simple consumer and legal perspective you better change every tool tip in the Zen store on ANYTHING that gives us stats (mounts, companions) because as of now, they don't indicate "+2000 power unless you are running lower level stuff where you will receive considerably less". If I pay for something to boost my damn stats/gear it better do what it says or you are going to owe thousands of people refunds and run the risk of horrible press in age where the government is already looking to clamp down on games like NW who use loot boxes anyway.
>
> SMDH
This is a really good and significant point, from a legal perspective the way your tool tips are currently worded leaves you wide open to legal challenges, certainly in the uk under the trade descriptions act, and i bet in a significant number of other countries you operate in.
"Trade Descriptions Act 2011 – Its purpose is to promote good trade practices by prohibiting false trade descriptionsand false or misleading statements, conduct and practices in relation to the supply of goods and services."
Is there anyone in this forum who doesnt think your tool tips could be construed as misleasing?
dungeons now its all about positioning/learn boss mechanics, first boss cocoon player needs to be healed, each player pick a mimic spawn spot and kill it, 2nd boss there is a phase the boss blast rocks on team time save when to use those heals/protection spells/ maybe paladin tab also potions well timed, last boss its similar to old spellplague cavern last boss mechanic also there is a phase you need to destroy electric charge pillars, repat till boss hp nis 0, it seems to favor ranged dps classes, even in well of dragon, dragon heralds event, on blue dragon player weren't timing when to doge red circles and time to move away from close red circle for poison on green dragon or lightning charge field around blue, instead of just spam powers players need to learn mechanics. And please before working on item level, worry to have overall balance cap values for your stats rating to do the dungeon its not about your item level, if you have the item level and don't have the overall caps(1 player only might be possible to carry, more that one player will be a knightmare).
I don't want this to be yet another angry tirade.
But THIS is the problem.
I'm not sure how or why you don't seem to get why this is the serious issue for players that it is.
Let me ask, what is the reason, given you built efficiency caps INTO the ratings (50% Crit cap, etc) that when you drop into OLD content you are not allowed to hit those caps, when in a situation that cannot be regarded as anything other than utterly ridiculous alongside that, it's both possible and allowed, to hit those ratings caps in higher level or "harder" content?
Stating the problem, but not realising that what you are saying IS the problem, while saying you are on with fixing the problem, does not inspire confidence that you are engaged in fixing THE problem.
This is JUST like when you introduced Random Queues. Lots of people pointed out that the structure of the lists was bad, and would lead to all sorts of problems. The main problem (apart from the amount of rAD players would be able to earn via multiple toons) was obvious, and clear. People playing L70 characters below the IL threshold for FBI/MSPC would not be able to play any L70 Dungeon and earn a daily rAD reward. You pressed on with it, it broke. I don't know about other people but that one decision devastated my small guild. Eventually you had some sort of epiphany and changed it.
You will not have the luxury of time on your side to come to eventual realisation that Scaling is broken in a way that makes the launch of Random Queues look like someone got the colours the wrong way round on a dye pack.
There's an old British sitcom called Father Ted, and in one episode Father Ted is trying to explain "perspective" to Father Dougal.
They are in a caravan, and looking out of a window at the farmland beyond, and Ted has some small farmyard toys on the table in front of them.. he picks up two plastic cows...
Ted: "OK, one last time... these are small the ones out there are far away. Small... far away... ahh forget it.
Dougal picks up a pair of binoculars and looks out the window with them...
Dougal: "Ted... you know how sometimes your eyes play tricks on you?"
I think Cryptic may be suffering the same as Father Dougal... a disconcerting lack of persepctive.
So, what now? As for the scaling, MY personal advice would be:
For each map level hardcap weapon dmg and health (each class or paragon path separately of course) and figure out by trial and error how to scale Power.
What difference will that bring compared to your idea of scaling everything? Simply put: if you accidentally level up on the map, you will not suddenly get weaker. Level 80 character will no longer be penalised against lvl 70 in no way - in the worst case scenario they will stand on the same ground.
But wait, there is a benefit to that too! This way you might find that in older content can the older weapons/gear be preferable - you would make a desire to collect some old rarities/obsolete items. Sure, just for the specific content... but that would mean we need more bag space, refining items... you know;)
And this way, in a levelling content, if you struggle, you can level up somewhere and come back later - more powerful. (but as there is a cap, you will never be a god)
While I would consider this an improvement, it will still displease many. Because many enjoy being gods...
So my second suggestion would be: make it voluntary. Simply tick this and you are scaled. Of course, for dungeons that would mean all participants or none - but we had it here in some sense already: the k-team. It worked.
(oh, one more thing: ticking the scaling for a dungeon should put additional loot pool from players highest opened campaign to the final chests - or the option will surely not be used frequently)
I 1million % agree with your statements.
i hope we can read something like this on next patch day:
Scaling:
we found that our scaling did not allow the players to reach cap points for that zone/dungeon.
So we deactivate scaling at all.
ugh f*** it,my last thoughts before i stop bothering with the forums
Putting scalling aside, game is overall boring...
I can't even pass lvl 10 on a new toon, 10-16 at-wills to kill the weakest critter?? no ty..
My dc is boring..
My paladin, well i won't even bother to talk about that because that class is just ugh..
The thing is, when end game players asked for a challenge they were talking about Dungeons not campaign areas , i actually think killing time was fine for new and mid-game players but now is just a HAMSTER show
You can do radom q's with random people, but be ready to sweat your HAMSTER off and half the time you most likely will not finish the dungeon because they either don't know what to do even if you tell them in chat or because they don't ahve the stats...
And if you manage to finish them , you will just get mod 6 garbage, or a useles peridot/aquamarine...
The other half of the dungeons you won't be able to finish is because they are bugged and have been bugged since they came out....
At ''end game'' aside from ME's you have nothing to do...
I remember people saying '' it can't be worst than mod 6'' oh how i wish that was true....
Just get rid of this stupid <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>* scaling. I don’t know a single god damn player that asked for this pile of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you’ve dumped on us.
There’s no reason to buy anything from the zen store...it’s all scaled down.
There’s no reason for any of us to run lower ques, leaving the lowbies to sit and wait for their leveling que to pop. This completely undoes the reason for creating the dumb <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> random ques in the first place.
Since you’ve already slapped your customer in the face repeatedly I say f*ck this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, take your broke <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> game and pray you have an active base in a few months.
Borderlands 3 in September and Days Gone for now...
The erosion of the value of the Chultan Tiger is something I understand being annoyed about, I remember when Augments were made redundant a long time ago, it hurt a lot with 9 toons with Augments. Times change and the value of things change. (I only had 3 Tigers, and only 1 was made Legendary, so this didn’t hurt as much.)
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Just give them the same abilities and settings as those "Whips" frog creatures have in the Twisted Caverns.
Problem solved.
I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped.
What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful.
The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system.
This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation.
Thanks again for this dialogue.
M.K.
> Lead Designer - Is responsible for the teams under him, and gives them general direction or accept/deny suggested ideas in general, or in this case systems designers team in particular.
> He is the Overall direction of NW Boss.
>
> The question was understandable for everyone who understands the core issue with how scaling is implemented. Via Caps.
>
>
> I'm in full agreement. He may not be directly working on systems but he must have some involvement if only working through the idea.
>
> The question regarding capped stats was easily understandable. The response he gave was not one you want to see coming from the man in charge.
>
> To me he came across like "Does not compute. I don't know what the main component behind this new system does. I've never heard of stat capping before in my life. I just work here. Move along. Double AD people we love you!"
>
>
> I am sorry that it came across that way. I am sure there are many times during the work day when I look like a deer in the head lights. I was honestly trying at first to parse if the question meant that adjusting stat caps was being asked as an option for players to be able to choose, and how that would then affect progression, as in, would it also scale rewards. The goal of level scaling is that you're scaled to a given challenge which includes scale ratings, aka not letting them stay capped.
>
> What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful.
> The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system.
>
> This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation.
> Thanks again for this dialogue.
> M.K.
Not a done deal, but ongoing conversation ? Guess what while you're still talking, people are walking out the door. Get this fixed quickly before you're left talking to an empty room.
>
> What that question did do, is reinforced to me as lead designer two places where level scaling is not making players happy. After I had a chance to think about these things more, I started to wonder that since we are adjusting stats on the player end, did we look deep enough into the balance of critter ratings- as this can really make a difference on how even level scaled stats can feel ineffective and frankly not powerful.
> The concept and goals of challenge campaigns was reviewed and signed off by me- with the ideas that players after hitting level 80 may not have completed or even started some of the previous campaigns, and that the risk reward of the scaling was sound. Some of the bugs that we found at launch clearly got past us, and we have made great strides to addressing them- and based upon player feedback we are still adjusting the scaling, and looking at the risk/reward loop and our original ideas for this system.
>
> This is not a done deal, but an ongoing conversation.
> Thanks again for this dialogue.
> M.K.
Ok, we appreciate that you're trying to keep an open dialog. However this still shows you're not listening.
Scaling should not be 'arbitrarily lose 50%' of your earned progress. Level 80 players with strong gear should not feel weaker than lower level players when scaled.
Due to the new system of opposing stats, it shouldn't matter what our armor pen, crit ratings, defense, deflect etc is. If we have enough for the content we've entered, we should be good. If you scale anything, just power, weapon damage, hp. Scale those to be in line or maybe 10% higher than a level 70. Let us keep some power. Without the pen, defense, etc we are magnitudes weaker. We'd need 100k pen to reach 50k scaled.
We are weaker when we get to 80 and it's not fun.
All this makes me suspect there are systems for scaling in place that weren't built by your team, that you can't change, and you have to work around them.
We should not be penalized to the point of being weaker than a level 70 especially when that level 70 isn't somewhere you can be for any extended length of time. imo all the old dungeons should be level 80. there should be a clear reason to have tiers of dungeon. those lower tiered dungeons should help progression for non bis toons. the high tiered dungeon should be rewarding for bis toons or high skilled non bis toons.
progression should be rewarded by being more powerful. otherwise why play? people play to progress in strength and power. if you deny that kiss your player base goodbye.
if you try to say no matter what you do in older content you will never be more powerful.. then honestly why bother? we don't play to play. we play to get better stuff that makes a difference.
at the end of the day neverwinter should never be a communist state. it should remain the capitalistic endeavor it's always been. that's why most of us love it.
some people prefer to run solo runs or solo challenge was a thing but not anymore also the rewards given from old content will never ever be relevant to the game specially as we progress further so scaling is making it even harder for players to want to play old content as the time vs reward is not worth it
premod16 we could do CN in 8 mins or so and rewards were pretty garbage to say the least with all due respect to garbage.
postmod16 CN needs 20 min or more and the rewards are still same old
so the time investment you put increased without the reward being changed
another point is that the old system was fun and engaging as it required timing and knowledge wich this is a good point for players who like challenge others may not have the sufficient backround to understand how things work but even so the combat system was very engaging
after mod 16 the combat is drastically slow and it's mostly hit and run while wait for next encounter so you have no control over the concept of combat
i hope you guys reconsider the way you nerfed buffs and powersharing etc nerfing is easy for you guys but it's not the solution players want to see
you always say to roll for initiative but this is far from it
Peace out & thnx for your time reading