Fundamentally, I always have a problem with people arguing that content 3-4+ years old needs to remain valid.
I always counter it with.. they simply do not, or will not put the proper resourcing in to release enough new content outside of campaigns in a year.
I am generally opposed to any new campaigns do to this.. they are just complete time wastes and have been for the longest time.. boring and overall generally grindy since mod 10 (when they released the SKT, Cloaked Ascendancy, Chult and Omo.. back to back to back campaigns that are all similar timed in its extravagance to make players do nothing for long periods of time to achieve little back).
Mod 16 extends the grind on campaigns. Now what would take you 15 minutes will now take 30 minutes. This makes campaigns take longer and longer campaigns are well not rewarding given time invested. Mod 16 is going to alienate all new players/character who don't have the current crop of campaigns already completed. It will take new players longer to complete content. These same new players will end up waiting an extended amount of time for a Q to pop so that the player can complete a dungeon such as FBI, MSPC, etc... as these dungeons now are going to scale top tier players downward to the point where the scaling may make a higher IL character actually lower in stats making them less effective than a character that is at the appropriate level with appropriate stats.
Mod 16 has many issues and bugs in its current design that is going to negatively impact the game population.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
These same new players will end up waiting an extended amount of time for a Q to pop so that the player can complete a dungeon such as FBI, MSPC, etc... as these dungeons now are going to scale top tier players downward to the point where the scaling may make a higher IL character actually lower in stats making them less effective than a character that is at the appropriate level with appropriate stats.
But is there any reason for a L80 player to run content like FBI or MSPC? Sure, you may do it once for a daily RQ reward, but then what? Are there any drops or rewards that are worth the time?
I have some weekly stuff, of course ... the quests like Arcane Reservoir that give a bit of rAD are worth doing, and Challenge Campaigns seem worthwhile too, if only to earn the currency to buy the new refinement stones, but, nah... something like FBI is just not worth running.
The way I see it, if I do 3 Master expeditions per day (that's the limit) and run LoMM when I have a good group for that, there is little time left to run any L70 content and the reward/effort ratio there is really too low to bother.
These same new players will end up waiting an extended amount of time for a Q to pop so that the player can complete a dungeon such as FBI, MSPC, etc... as these dungeons now are going to scale top tier players downward to the point where the scaling may make a higher IL character actually lower in stats making them less effective than a character that is at the appropriate level with appropriate stats.
But is there any reason for a L80 player to run content like FBI or MSPC? Sure, you may do it once for a daily RQ reward, but then what? Are there any drops or rewards that are worth the time?
I have some weekly stuff, of course ... the quests like Arcane Reservoir that give a bit of rAD are worth doing, and Challenge Campaigns seem worthwhile too, if only to earn the currency to buy the new refinement stones, but, nah... omething FBI is just not worth running.
The way I see it, if I do 3 Master expeditions per day (that's the limit) and run LoMM when I have a good group for that, there is little time left to run any L70 content and the reward/effort ratio there is really too low to bother.
This type of thinking is what makes older content in MMOs irrelevant. Instead of saying, I have no reason to run older content, you should be asking the devs to make it worth your wild to run the content. In other games I play the devs will release one specific piece of gear in an older rarely played dungeon for a week or a month. During that time that dungeons gets plenty of love and attention.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
I’m a fairly new NW player I started last October, so the game still has most of my attention. With help from friends I’ve become almost BIS ( lacking shadowstalker) in the short time I’ve played. But thats it, no more upgrading or new dungeons because I’m at endgame. From my perspective it’s just like when I hit lvl 70, all the gear I worked for in the 60s and things I grew accustomed to were thrown in the trash,and because of limited knowledge and experience with the game, not only did I feel overwhelmed ,confused and defeated when I hit lvl 70, but i got killed so many times I wanted to cry lol, made so many mistakes on my build it took several weeks to correct and got kicked from so many things I played solo for months. So I actually know what it’s gonna feel like and I’m ok with. I think if everyone works together and newer future mods don’t take it to far everything’s gonna be ok. Stop stressing everyone.
I’m a fairly new NW player I started last October, so the game still has most of my attention. With help from friends I’ve become almost BIS ( lacking shadowstalker) in the short time I’ve played. But thats it, no more upgrading or new dungeons because I’m at endgame. From my perspective it’s just like when I hit lvl 70, all the gear I worked for in the 60s and things I grew accustomed to were thrown in the trash,and because of limited knowledge and experience with the game, not only did I feel overwhelmed ,confused and defeated when I hit lvl 70, but i got killed so many times I wanted to cry lol, made so many mistakes on my build it took several weeks to correct and got kicked from so many things I played solo for months. So I actually know what it’s gonna feel like and I’m ok with. I think if everyone works together and newer future mods don’t take it to far everything’s gonna be ok. Stop stressing everyone.
What we learned from yesterday stream was scaling players stats down was do for PVP reasons. That in itself for PVE content is why a game like NWO will suffer player loses in bunches because the development team is not able to separate PVP from PVE.
PVE and PVP should be separated from each. There should be unique PVP gear, unique PVP enchantment or a PVP stat for each enchantment, etc... PVE should also have it own gear, enchantment or stats on enchantments, etc... This way when the devs make a change it would focus on PVP or PVE and not both. When both are involved it makes a positive or negative impact to the other side of the game. When a game combines PVE and PVP it tends to result in making improper balances to classes or content. NWO has yet to separate them and this is why PVP will break PVE and PVE will break PVP, no matter how simple the core of the game design is. The update will not resolve imbalance in the game for classes in PVP or PVE.
With that said, PVE classes should never be truly balanced as all classes should have a different style of play and that will impact the class ability to be produce top end damage for AoE or Single Target. Also where the majority of the damage is produced from At Wills or Encounters should also be a bit unique to provide that uniqueness to each class.
The main issue with mod 15 was how things stacked and it hurt the game. If the devs would have tackled that and added soft/hard caps to buffs it would have made meta groups less effective and open up the door to other classes. That is now in the past and we can only move forward with mod 16.
My hope is that mod 17 we get a new role Buffer/Debuffer or something along those lines and it is given to a few of the current pure DPS classes. I also would like to see additional feats added back to allow further character customization.
The thing the devs do plan to fix is the scaling issue that currently exist in the game. I'm hopeful that most will be fixed when it launches on console. If not, than the game will lose some players on console just like the game lost players on PC.
The thing I think the devs did wrong is that this was a complete make over to the game. Players like myself who played multiple characters and put time and money into each character will now have to determine if we want to continue playing all characters or a small group of character or move over to just one character. After playing the game and developing knowledge of how to play the character class effectively we are now all starting over from square one. This is a hard thing to do when you are at end game. Its not like I'm just starting out and have to learn my class like I did or you did when you were level 1.
The other thing is that content is a bit more challenging than it needs to be. Why should a level 80 character die by two hits in Blacklake district? That is an insult to the players who worked hard to get to 80, increase their enchantments, etc... now in the lower zone they are weaker than the average player who is at that level. That is how bad scaling is and has been; players were asking for fixes prior to this hitting production but the devs move forward and we got the bad scaling system. This is fixable but when you get a friend to join the game and are an end game player and dying more than your friend in the lower zone it makes you wonder why you want to even run any content that is not level 80 and well ATM there are no level 80 dungeons that means quite a few players won't run dungeons. When you have less players running dungeons you have longer Q times and longer Q times means you are waiting to earn some AD.
When the you do get into a Q you are thrown into content that should be completed by a group at that level in around 20-25 minutes but a higher level group that content is taking longer. The rewards have no improved for the extra time we spend in content or the longer Q time. The reward / time is imbalanced. If we think about how the random Q is setup on console, its like you get into an expert Q for T9, CoDG or CR and you are only getting the award of the leveling dungeon or intermediate dungeon. Forget the award for Advance Q or Expert Q. So now intermediate and leveling Q together takes around 20 minutes maybe up to 30 minutes depending upon the dungeon and group you get. Mod 16 you are now playing those two same dungeons and need roughly an hour to complete them or more.
This update has hurt guild that are leveling up, it increase the time to get into Q's, and players who don't have the time to spend over an hour in one or two dungeons won't play this game and will go find another game to play. This game was designed around being casual; I mean we can buy our way to end game and yet the game is now not casual.
So if the devs want the game to be challenging, they need to remove from the game the Zax, campaign tokens, etc...they need to remove anything that makes it so players can buy their way to end game. If they keep those in the game, they need to go back and significantly modify the scaling in the game. And like I said, scaling can be fixed, so fix it already and not one critter or zone at a time. The overall scaling system needs to be revamped.
So the April 7 stream basically confirms that they weren't listening or glossing over a lot of our input the whole time preview testing was happening. "We weren't listening in the way we needed to" was i think how it was phrased.
I really think they need a person who goes through the forums and compiles a list of things that need to be addressed during preview so they don't have to patch a million times after launch. We have been telling them there was a problem and if they had fixed it we would not have had to spend a whole community stream listening to their apologies for not listening.
I am not sure if it is being short staffed, lack of budget or what, but their communication has been so poor that i am sure it has cost them more players than they can afford.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
So the April 7 stream basically confirms that they weren't listening or glossing over a lot of our input the whole time preview testing was happening. "We weren't listening in the way we needed to" was i think how it was phrased.
I really think they need a person who goes through the forums and compiles a list of things that need to be addressed during preview so they don't have to patch a million times after launch. We have been telling them there was a problem and if they had fixed it we would not have had to spend a whole community stream listening to their apologies for not listening.
I am not sure if it is being short staffed, lack of budget or what, but their communication has been so poor that i am sure it has cost them more players than they can afford.
But thats the thing, isn't it, they did that. (?) I think it was early in the stream that they talked about that people were going through preview feedback, compiling it, and that it was adressed - but not communicated. I think there is a core misunderstanding in what we all adress as feedback, and what they see as feedback. I doubt that the direction of the game, general changes to it (like the class changes and if they were necessary in the way they were done) or why we need these changes is something they considered feedback. It feels more like "take it as it is and leave some notes on bugs if you run into it". It's a bit difficult to explain emotions in numbers. You can't always run an ACT on disappointment.
(although, one of the things that surprised me the most, was the (very short) list on dungeon scaling at the beginning. I think how much stuff didn't work as it should came as a surprise. Well, having a hard time at ndemo and tia at 19/20k IL came as a surprise to me, too. If you change the core, wouldn't you want to test fundamental content before you let players, even preview testers, see?)
We should see the backpedaling as a nice gesture, cause it really is. They didn't have to do that. Undermountain is a nice campaign and didn't deserve to be the second part to mod 16, really. I guess if the general direction is not to ones liking, theres only one way to go, really. So I'll check out LotMM for sure, and then we'll see.
New people are having a hard time now, imo. In guild, in alliance, theres a lot of questions from them that are hard to answer sometimes. Even though some people are dropping guides, it's hard to guide people when you are still figuring things out. They can't get past some campaign bosses I don't even remember, but they are 16k or something, simply because it's just that easy. So it's hard to understand for them why they die a lot and don't do much dmg or why they should save up for an augment and get it to legendary, which is quite an investment for new people, just for them to have a decent experience now. They haven't touched ME, Sharandar, DR but try to solo MEs. And it works. Somehow. While this is a bit messy for them, its an even stranger experience for me. They run the same content as I can currently run, but they have placeholder artifacts and don't know who "that guy in PE where I found the letter" is. Neverwinter was already confusing for me when I started playing, when I could find builds and guild runs easily. I wonder how I would do if I started now.
So the April 7 stream basically confirms that they weren't listening or glossing over a lot of our input the whole time preview testing was happening. "We weren't listening in the way we needed to" was i think how it was phrased.
I really think they need a person who goes through the forums and compiles a list of things that need to be addressed during preview so they don't have to patch a million times after launch. We have been telling them there was a problem and if they had fixed it we would not have had to spend a whole community stream listening to their apologies for not listening.
I am not sure if it is being short staffed, lack of budget or what, but their communication has been so poor that i am sure it has cost them more players than they can afford.
But thats the thing, isn't it, they did that. (?) I think it was early in the stream that they talked about that people were going through preview feedback, compiling it, and that it was adressed - but not communicated. I think there is a core misunderstanding in what we all adress as feedback, and what they see as feedback. I doubt that the direction of the game, general changes to it (like the class changes and if they were necessary in the way they were done) or why we need these changes is something they considered feedback. It feels more like "take it as it is and leave some notes on bugs if you run into it". It's a bit difficult to explain emotions in numbers. You can't always run an ACT on disappointment.
(although, one of the things that surprised me the most, was the (very short) list on dungeon scaling at the beginning. I think how much stuff didn't work as it should came as a surprise. Well, having a hard time at ndemo and tia at 19/20k IL came as a surprise to me, too. If you change the core, wouldn't you want to test fundamental content before you let players, even preview testers, see?)
We should see the backpedaling as a nice gesture, cause it really is. They didn't have to do that. Undermountain is a nice campaign and didn't deserve to be the second part to mod 16, really. I guess if the general direction is not to ones liking, theres only one way to go, really. So I'll check out LotMM for sure, and then we'll see.
New people are having a hard time now, imo. In guild, in alliance, theres a lot of questions from them that are hard to answer sometimes. Even though some people are dropping guides, it's hard to guide people when you are still figuring things out. They can't get past some campaign bosses I don't even remember, but they are 16k or something, simply because it's just that easy. So it's hard to understand for them why they die a lot and don't do much dmg or why they should save up for an augment and get it to legendary, which is quite an investment for new people, just for them to have a decent experience now. They haven't touched ME, Sharandar, DR but try to solo MEs. And it works. Somehow. While this is a bit messy for them, its an even stranger experience for me. They run the same content as I can currently run, but they have placeholder artifacts and don't know who "that guy in PE where I found the letter" is. Neverwinter was already confusing for me when I started playing, when I could find builds and guild runs easily. I wonder how I would do if I started now.
Apparently you don't need builds or guides now to play your character. That was the point of the class update. Making so that anyone who picked up the controller could play. That is not a RGPMMO game; that is not even a loot shooter type of game. That is Mario type of game and even than you needed to understand when to jump or you would die. This game went to simple with its core design. It made companions more messed up than it was in mod 15; though that is one change I do like but it still needs work. The game is not as good as it was. It is not even ok as the game is not for a casual player any more and even a hardcore gamer will be like ok whatever.
NWO current state is a mess. I wonder how much they will fix on PC with this big update and I wonder if another patch will be a fast follower from Thursday to fix even more issues.
They had a deployment date and even though there was enough info to push it back they didn't and the end result is what is on PC. Like I said scaling and most of the issues can be fixed. My only concern is that the game won't add any complexity for customizing our character and that maybe enough for many to just say so long and best of luck. I know most of the players I run with hate simplicity and that is why they have moved over to ESO or FF.
I am expecting quite a few patches upcoming. They wont be done with this next one. Each one seems to make the game a little bit better again.
Most of the commentary here are from people that were just too far gone in the negative already with the game, and wont give credit where it's due. Not that I disagree with them on some points.
Neverwinter has been successful, despite its simplicity. The developers have a rare opportunity to reshape this game for the next 4-5+ years. That was the real reason for this update. I ENJOYED the stream. Let's see if this goodwill continues, or becomes a once off. Julia and the big guy stated there will be much more outreach in the future. I liked their approach in this stream and thought it was brilliant.
The past game developers made a lot of mistakes. We are going to give this team a chance to make all the corrections they need to until they have the game where it needs to be.
These same new players will end up waiting an extended amount of time for a Q to pop so that the player can complete a dungeon such as FBI, MSPC, etc... as these dungeons now are going to scale top tier players downward to the point where the scaling may make a higher IL character actually lower in stats making them less effective than a character that is at the appropriate level with appropriate stats.
But is there any reason for a L80 player to run content like FBI or MSPC? Sure, you may do it once for a daily RQ reward, but then what? Are there any drops or rewards that are worth the time?
I have some weekly stuff, of course ... the quests like Arcane Reservoir that give a bit of rAD are worth doing, and Challenge Campaigns seem worthwhile too, if only to earn the currency to buy the new refinement stones, but, nah... omething FBI is just not worth running.
The way I see it, if I do 3 Master expeditions per day (that's the limit) and run LoMM when I have a good group for that, there is little time left to run any L70 content and the reward/effort ratio there is really too low to bother.
I don't think I'll quit the game, but I'm going to be a lot more casual. i like running fbi and cn for fun now.. I run random ques on a couple toons for the ad and the shards for strongholds.. but yeah rewards are pooh. if it takes as long to run as something more modern I'm not going to do it. I don't know if the rewards for cradle will stilll be relevant.. but I am not even sure it's possible.. the ad is a nice bonus from random queues but It's not worth massive amounts of time. I won't be doing them going forward
I was just looking for a glimmer of hope during the livestream. To me, it seemed obvious that they are still not listening. We have literally over a thousand posts regarding capping/scaling and they refuse to address the capping aspect. I'll keep saying it, in what world should a R6 and R15 enchant give the same stats in a L70 dungeon/zone. This isn't about IL scaling. It's about capping that breaks the fundamental progression of leveling up and upgrading enchantments!
I won't be back playing NW until they address this issue. Making stuff easier is the wrong approach as it treats some of the symptoms, but avoids addressing the problem.
I really wish they would read and think a bit more about all the feedback that has been posted. It's just sad.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
Spoken like a TRUE guild leader!
I was a League leader when I played DCUO. My league was very active and had 20-30 active players on daily. On average we had enough people most days to run a 8 man raid. I tried to run a guild in NWO but I don't have the time or resources so I deleted my guild a while ago and been in other guilds since.
I personally like older content. It still fun for me even at near max IL on my CW. I am not looking forward to mod 16 though as it takes away the play style I like to play in MMO games, that is the role of a buffer/debuffer.
Cryptic needs to add the buffer/debuffer role to the game and provide that role to a few classes that currently don't have more than a DPS role. I think that will go a long way to making the game better IMO than its current state.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
Spoken like a TRUE guild leader!
I was a League leader when I played DCUO. My league was very active and had 20-30 active players on daily. On average we had enough people most days to run a 8 man raid. I tried to run a guild in NWO but I don't have the time or resources so I deleted my guild a while ago and been in other guilds since.
I personally like older content. It still fun for me even at near max IL on my CW. I am not looking forward to mod 16 though as it takes away the play style I like to play in MMO games, that is the role of a buffer/debuffer.
Cryptic needs to add the buffer/debuffer role to the game and provide that role to a few classes that currently don't have more than a DPS role. I think that will go a long way to making the game better IMO than its current state.
I agree and disagree, idea is good but we all know for a fact they will HAMSTER it up. Even now, tanking is not needed, you grab 4x dps and a healer and you are guchi
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
Spoken like a TRUE guild leader!
I was a League leader when I played DCUO. My league was very active and had 20-30 active players on daily. On average we had enough people most days to run a 8 man raid. I tried to run a guild in NWO but I don't have the time or resources so I deleted my guild a while ago and been in other guilds since.
I personally like older content. It still fun for me even at near max IL on my CW. I am not looking forward to mod 16 though as it takes away the play style I like to play in MMO games, that is the role of a buffer/debuffer.
Cryptic needs to add the buffer/debuffer role to the game and provide that role to a few classes that currently don't have more than a DPS role. I think that will go a long way to making the game better IMO than its current state.
THE BARD CLASS is totally what the Doctor ordered, it would bring into the game much of what you reference above and lots of NEW fun, more-so than any other class. If done right, the bard can "come to the rescue" and offer all kinds of buffs and healing and CC. Just what's needed in Post MOD16 Neverwinter to even the odds against those dastardly developers!!! ~~
Now is the time to build a bard class, Mr Foss!!
I understand fully about being a guild leader. We were fortunate because we started before game launch. But if I had to start a new guild today in Neverwinter I'm fighting an uphill battle. No question about it.
The solution is to market your guild here on the official motherboards and reddit and JOIN a GOOD ALLIANCE. One that you can speak to. Long time guild leaders can give a new guild leader a good education backed by a winning track record. Saves time to know what to do and how to do it. And your guildies have FRIENDS, adventures that will join them 24/7/365. There is NOTHING more important than keeping your guildies entertained. In a game like Neverwinter, that's nearly IMPOSSIBLE without the help of other guilds joining your in the fight. Period.
You can waste a lot of time screaming at the sky and banging your head into the nearest wall otherwise! Not to mention it HURTS!!!
These same new players will end up waiting an extended amount of time for a Q to pop so that the player can complete a dungeon such as FBI, MSPC, etc... as these dungeons now are going to scale top tier players downward to the point where the scaling may make a higher IL character actually lower in stats making them less effective than a character that is at the appropriate level with appropriate stats.
But is there any reason for a L80 player to run content like FBI or MSPC? Sure, you may do it once for a daily RQ reward, but then what? Are there any drops or rewards that are worth the time?
I have some weekly stuff, of course ... the quests like Arcane Reservoir that give a bit of rAD are worth doing, and Challenge Campaigns seem worthwhile too, if only to earn the currency to buy the new refinement stones, but, nah... omething FBI is just not worth running.
The way I see it, if I do 3 Master expeditions per day (that's the limit) and run LoMM when I have a good group for that, there is little time left to run any L70 content and the reward/effort ratio there is really too low to bother.
I don't think I'll quit the game, but I'm going to be a lot more casual. i like running fbi and cn for fun now.. I run random ques on a couple toons for the ad and the shards for strongholds.. but yeah rewards are pooh. if it takes as long to run as something more modern I'm not going to do it. I don't know if the rewards for cradle will stilll be relevant.. but I am not even sure it's possible.. the ad is a nice bonus from random queues but It's not worth massive amounts of time. I won't be doing them going forward
I went from a major hard core player. When I started I was asking questions and making some general statements to get a better understanding of the game. Yeah I even trolled here and there on the forums to see how other response would be. I got annoyed here and there and eventually just decided to put a bit of time and money into my three characters I had and actually started to enjoy the game more and more.
I was planning on playing like that this year but I decided to take a breather to see what the next mod would be. I had my three characters all over 17K with my GF just needing a legendary mount to join my other two characters at 18K. Than right around the time Anthem launched I decided to play that as that looked interesting, still great combat flow but content is light in that game and after 6 to 8 weeks playing that as my main game I came back to NWO and since than I rarely even play any game now. I found with the warmer weather I'm outside more, even if it is raining.
By that time though mod 16 was on preview and I had in my possession a laptop to actually test out the changes. So I tried a fighter and absolutely hated those changes. I than tried a cleric and hated those changes as well. I was going to try out a wizard but life happened and I had to take care of actual real life things.
Move forward and I decided on my CW. Than I took the legendary mount pack I got and equipped that to my CW and picked a swarm. I than used the AD I had from selling EVERYTHING I had to buy what I wanted for my CW. Maxed out my CW and saved a few million AD. Since that time I simply been playing the game here and there. Helped a friend and got them a legendary mount on the cheap one day.
I'm definitely more casual now than I was in 2018. Mod 16 might be enough for me to just move from NWO if it is I will be doing a flash give away of all my enchantments.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
Spoken like a TRUE guild leader!
I was a League leader when I played DCUO. My league was very active and had 20-30 active players on daily. On average we had enough people most days to run a 8 man raid. I tried to run a guild in NWO but I don't have the time or resources so I deleted my guild a while ago and been in other guilds since.
I personally like older content. It still fun for me even at near max IL on my CW. I am not looking forward to mod 16 though as it takes away the play style I like to play in MMO games, that is the role of a buffer/debuffer.
Cryptic needs to add the buffer/debuffer role to the game and provide that role to a few classes that currently don't have more than a DPS role. I think that will go a long way to making the game better IMO than its current state.
I agree and disagree, idea is good but we all know for a fact they will HAMSTER it up. Even now, tanking is not needed, you grab 4x dps and a healer and you are guchi
Every game I have played where a buffer role exit you can always exclude a healer or tank and beat content just fine.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Frankly, there is nothing they will or can do, that will probably restore fun to me in the game, most of the classes are just simply not that fun to play.
The two classes that remain fairly the same is the CW and the HR.. you can make builds that are just slightly slower variations of what they were.
But to me, the rest of the classes are junked pretty much.
Why even make a new class at this point.. like what is the reason? I had so much fun with alts for years in this game, but to me mod 16, pretty much kills all alt play.
They have been trying to kill it for eons, but mod 16 to me personally finally did it. What grind and boring HAMSTER grind and more grind couldnt do.. a simple recoding , removal of feats and powers and how slow the game feels now.. has made it all very very boring.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I did quit, but I keep my enchants, who knows what 2 years from now will bring.. maybe Ill be back, maybe I wont, you never know what they will change to make the game fun again.. or they might not and I wont bother.
I'm definitely more casual now than I was in 2018. Mod 16 might be enough for me to just move from NWO if it is I will be doing a flash give away of all my enchantments.
dibs
Good luck with that. I will do a give away first in my alliance than in PE if no bites in the alliance.
I did quit, but I keep my enchants, who knows what 2 years from now will bring.. maybe Ill be back, maybe I wont, you never know what they will change to make the game fun again.. or they might not and I wont bother.
I did the same when I left DCUO and I haven't been back to that game since. Best thing is to move on from the game.
If I don't like my wizard I'm moving on from NWO. I have other game and life activities to keep me entertained.
Comments
Mod 16 has many issues and bugs in its current design that is going to negatively impact the game population.
I have some weekly stuff, of course ... the quests like Arcane Reservoir that give a bit of rAD are worth doing, and Challenge Campaigns seem worthwhile too, if only to earn the currency to buy the new refinement stones, but, nah... something like FBI is just not worth running.
The way I see it, if I do 3 Master expeditions per day (that's the limit) and run LoMM when I have a good group for that, there is little time left to run any L70 content and the reward/effort ratio there is really too low to bother.
With some campaign currency coming from older dungeons and with not all players/character having completed the campaigns, getting higher end players who have completed the campaigns/dungeon to go back and help is needed to help lower geared players move up to the higher end content.
Also, you can earn some decent companions, mounts, etc.. from those older dungeons which can be sold for AD or collected if you want it.
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3 master exp + Lomm ( when available ) + mb rql riq +daily demogorgon and cn ( 4 chests ) and thats it.
No room nor will to run old low lvl 70 contente more than that.
PVE and PVP should be separated from each. There should be unique PVP gear, unique PVP enchantment or a PVP stat for each enchantment, etc... PVE should also have it own gear, enchantment or stats on enchantments, etc... This way when the devs make a change it would focus on PVP or PVE and not both. When both are involved it makes a positive or negative impact to the other side of the game. When a game combines PVE and PVP it tends to result in making improper balances to classes or content. NWO has yet to separate them and this is why PVP will break PVE and PVE will break PVP, no matter how simple the core of the game design is. The update will not resolve imbalance in the game for classes in PVP or PVE.
With that said, PVE classes should never be truly balanced as all classes should have a different style of play and that will impact the class ability to be produce top end damage for AoE or Single Target. Also where the majority of the damage is produced from At Wills or Encounters should also be a bit unique to provide that uniqueness to each class.
The main issue with mod 15 was how things stacked and it hurt the game. If the devs would have tackled that and added soft/hard caps to buffs it would have made meta groups less effective and open up the door to other classes. That is now in the past and we can only move forward with mod 16.
My hope is that mod 17 we get a new role Buffer/Debuffer or something along those lines and it is given to a few of the current pure DPS classes. I also would like to see additional feats added back to allow further character customization.
The thing the devs do plan to fix is the scaling issue that currently exist in the game. I'm hopeful that most will be fixed when it launches on console. If not, than the game will lose some players on console just like the game lost players on PC.
The thing I think the devs did wrong is that this was a complete make over to the game. Players like myself who played multiple characters and put time and money into each character will now have to determine if we want to continue playing all characters or a small group of character or move over to just one character. After playing the game and developing knowledge of how to play the character class effectively we are now all starting over from square one. This is a hard thing to do when you are at end game. Its not like I'm just starting out and have to learn my class like I did or you did when you were level 1.
The other thing is that content is a bit more challenging than it needs to be. Why should a level 80 character die by two hits in Blacklake district? That is an insult to the players who worked hard to get to 80, increase their enchantments, etc... now in the lower zone they are weaker than the average player who is at that level. That is how bad scaling is and has been; players were asking for fixes prior to this hitting production but the devs move forward and we got the bad scaling system. This is fixable but when you get a friend to join the game and are an end game player and dying more than your friend in the lower zone it makes you wonder why you want to even run any content that is not level 80 and well ATM there are no level 80 dungeons that means quite a few players won't run dungeons. When you have less players running dungeons you have longer Q times and longer Q times means you are waiting to earn some AD.
When the you do get into a Q you are thrown into content that should be completed by a group at that level in around 20-25 minutes but a higher level group that content is taking longer. The rewards have no improved for the extra time we spend in content or the longer Q time. The reward / time is imbalanced. If we think about how the random Q is setup on console, its like you get into an expert Q for T9, CoDG or CR and you are only getting the award of the leveling dungeon or intermediate dungeon. Forget the award for Advance Q or Expert Q. So now intermediate and leveling Q together takes around 20 minutes maybe up to 30 minutes depending upon the dungeon and group you get. Mod 16 you are now playing those two same dungeons and need roughly an hour to complete them or more.
This update has hurt guild that are leveling up, it increase the time to get into Q's, and players who don't have the time to spend over an hour in one or two dungeons won't play this game and will go find another game to play. This game was designed around being casual; I mean we can buy our way to end game and yet the game is now not casual.
So if the devs want the game to be challenging, they need to remove from the game the Zax, campaign tokens, etc...they need to remove anything that makes it so players can buy their way to end game. If they keep those in the game, they need to go back and significantly modify the scaling in the game. And like I said, scaling can be fixed, so fix it already and not one critter or zone at a time. The overall scaling system needs to be revamped.
"We weren't listening in the way we needed to" was i think how it was phrased.
I really think they need a person who goes through the forums and compiles a list of things that need to be addressed during preview so they don't have to patch a million times after launch. We have been telling them there was a problem and if they had fixed it we would not have had to spend a whole community stream listening to their apologies for not listening.
I am not sure if it is being short staffed, lack of budget or what, but their communication has been so poor that i am sure it has cost them more players than they can afford.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
I think there is a core misunderstanding in what we all adress as feedback, and what they see as feedback. I doubt that the direction of the game, general changes to it (like the class changes and if they were necessary in the way they were done) or why we need these changes is something they considered feedback. It feels more like "take it as it is and leave some notes on bugs if you run into it".
It's a bit difficult to explain emotions in numbers. You can't always run an ACT on disappointment.
(although, one of the things that surprised me the most, was the (very short) list on dungeon scaling at the beginning. I think how much stuff didn't work as it should came as a surprise. Well, having a hard time at ndemo and tia at 19/20k IL came as a surprise to me, too. If you change the core, wouldn't you want to test fundamental content before you let players, even preview testers, see?)
We should see the backpedaling as a nice gesture, cause it really is. They didn't have to do that. Undermountain is a nice campaign and didn't deserve to be the second part to mod 16, really.
I guess if the general direction is not to ones liking, theres only one way to go, really. So I'll check out LotMM for sure, and then we'll see.
New people are having a hard time now, imo. In guild, in alliance, theres a lot of questions from them that are hard to answer sometimes. Even though some people are dropping guides, it's hard to guide people when you are still figuring things out. They can't get past some campaign bosses I don't even remember, but they are 16k or something, simply because it's just that easy.
So it's hard to understand for them why they die a lot and don't do much dmg or why they should save up for an augment and get it to legendary, which is quite an investment for new people, just for them to have a decent experience now.
They haven't touched ME, Sharandar, DR but try to solo MEs. And it works. Somehow.
While this is a bit messy for them, its an even stranger experience for me. They run the same content as I can currently run, but they have placeholder artifacts and don't know who "that guy in PE where I found the letter" is.
Neverwinter was already confusing for me when I started playing, when I could find builds and guild runs easily. I wonder how I would do if I started now.
NWO current state is a mess. I wonder how much they will fix on PC with this big update and I wonder if another patch will be a fast follower from Thursday to fix even more issues.
They had a deployment date and even though there was enough info to push it back they didn't and the end result is what is on PC. Like I said scaling and most of the issues can be fixed. My only concern is that the game won't add any complexity for customizing our character and that maybe enough for many to just say so long and best of luck. I know most of the players I run with hate simplicity and that is why they have moved over to ESO or FF.
Most of the commentary here are from people that were just too far gone in the negative already with the game, and wont give credit where it's due. Not that I disagree with them on some points.
Neverwinter has been successful, despite its simplicity. The developers have a rare opportunity to reshape this game for the next 4-5+ years. That was the real reason for this update. I ENJOYED the stream. Let's see if this goodwill continues, or becomes a once off. Julia and the big guy stated there will be much more outreach in the future. I liked their approach in this stream and thought it was brilliant.
The past game developers made a lot of mistakes. We are going to give this team a chance to make all the corrections they need to until they have the game where it needs to be.
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I won't be back playing NW until they address this issue. Making stuff easier is the wrong approach as it treats some of the symptoms, but avoids addressing the problem.
I really wish they would read and think a bit more about all the feedback that has been posted. It's just sad.
Talia
I personally like older content. It still fun for me even at near max IL on my CW. I am not looking forward to mod 16 though as it takes away the play style I like to play in MMO games, that is the role of a buffer/debuffer.
Cryptic needs to add the buffer/debuffer role to the game and provide that role to a few classes that currently don't have more than a DPS role. I think that will go a long way to making the game better IMO than its current state.
THE BARD CLASS is totally what the Doctor ordered, it would bring into the game much of what you reference above and lots of NEW fun, more-so than any other class. If done right, the bard can "come to the rescue" and offer all kinds of buffs and healing and CC. Just what's needed in Post MOD16 Neverwinter to even the odds against those dastardly developers!!!
Now is the time to build a bard class, Mr Foss!!
I understand fully about being a guild leader. We were fortunate because we started before game launch. But if I had to start a new guild today in Neverwinter I'm fighting an uphill battle. No question about it.
The solution is to market your guild here on the official motherboards and reddit and JOIN a GOOD ALLIANCE. One that you can speak to. Long time guild leaders can give a new guild leader a good education backed by a winning track record. Saves time to know what to do and how to do it. And your guildies have FRIENDS, adventures that will join them 24/7/365. There is NOTHING more important than keeping your guildies entertained. In a game like Neverwinter, that's nearly IMPOSSIBLE without the help of other guilds joining your in the fight. Period.
You can waste a lot of time screaming at the sky and banging your head into the nearest wall otherwise! Not to mention it HURTS!!!
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I was planning on playing like that this year but I decided to take a breather to see what the next mod would be. I had my three characters all over 17K with my GF just needing a legendary mount to join my other two characters at 18K. Than right around the time Anthem launched I decided to play that as that looked interesting, still great combat flow but content is light in that game and after 6 to 8 weeks playing that as my main game I came back to NWO and since than I rarely even play any game now. I found with the warmer weather I'm outside more, even if it is raining.
By that time though mod 16 was on preview and I had in my possession a laptop to actually test out the changes. So I tried a fighter and absolutely hated those changes. I than tried a cleric and hated those changes as well. I was going to try out a wizard but life happened and I had to take care of actual real life things.
Move forward and I decided on my CW. Than I took the legendary mount pack I got and equipped that to my CW and picked a swarm. I than used the AD I had from selling EVERYTHING I had to buy what I wanted for my CW. Maxed out my CW and saved a few million AD. Since that time I simply been playing the game here and there. Helped a friend and got them a legendary mount on the cheap one day.
I'm definitely more casual now than I was in 2018. Mod 16 might be enough for me to just move from NWO if it is I will be doing a flash give away of all my enchantments.
The two classes that remain fairly the same is the CW and the HR.. you can make builds that are just slightly slower variations of what they were.
But to me, the rest of the classes are junked pretty much.
Why even make a new class at this point.. like what is the reason? I had so much fun with alts for years in this game, but to me mod 16, pretty much kills all alt play.
They have been trying to kill it for eons, but mod 16 to me personally finally did it. What grind and boring HAMSTER grind and more grind couldnt do.. a simple recoding , removal of feats and powers and how slow the game feels now.. has made it all very very boring.
If I don't like my wizard I'm moving on from NWO. I have other game and life activities to keep me entertained.