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  • karvarekarvare Posts: 149Member Arc User
    When this all started it was stated they would be doing changes big, with big corrections. That allows them to find a happy medium. Relax, they have time to restore some DPS to our companions. Just in case, look into a good augment, gold fish drop like candy in Bank Heist.
  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User

    onin002 said:

    If companions yesterday did to much damage and today to little, why not hit a middle value in next patch?

    Beats me. Just because I don't think it's a big problem doesn't mean that I don't think that it's unfixable.

    I suspect, however, that for some reason, the dev team is either okay with or explicitly in preference of the low-damage companion model.
    I just tested 35 different companions against target dummies... the majority of them are doing about 10 -15% of your total DPS, which amounts to roughly the same DPS boost i'm getting from running an augment... it's pretty well balanced as of this patch

    And why did you decide what should be 10%? Who do you think will cause more damage in battle, having a sword and a tame bear in hand? Wild beast or a man with a sword? Why not 50% or 150%? Most people agree that the pets nerf in the last patch is stupid, why did you decide that 10% is enough? Have you decided that you have the highest intelligence among us all and you have the right to decide how correctly??
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    edited April 7

    onin002 said:

    If companions yesterday did to much damage and today to little, why not hit a middle value in next patch?

    Beats me. Just because I don't think it's a big problem doesn't mean that I don't think that it's unfixable.

    I suspect, however, that for some reason, the dev team is either okay with or explicitly in preference of the low-damage companion model.
    I just tested 35 different companions against target dummies... the majority of them are doing about 10 -15% of your total DPS, which amounts to roughly the same DPS boost i'm getting from running an augment... it's pretty well balanced as of this patch

    Can you provide any more information about that "test"?
    Combat advantage active or not?
    Statcaps at optimum or not? -> Was your augment optimzed for the test in terms of stacking power by reaching the cap for Arp , crit, accuracy, CA etc.
    In other words , did you waste 50% of your stats by overcapping Arp, crit, accur and CA slotting that augment?
    If so your results are not valid and a waste of time in my eyes.
    Did you just hit a level 9 dummy to compare damage, or did you check vs a level 70 dummy?
    Actually I find it hard anyway to gain solid results without having a level 80 dummy (could not find a lev80, only Stronghold right?)

    * last comment on that test. Did your Companion die in between hitting that dummy , had to be revived, lost his target, run in the wrong direction ? :)
    ->unpredictable variables you have to include into your conclusion "things are balanced" vs a still standing Dummy
    -> not to talk about a significant HP boost you get from that augment on top.
    I don´t think the situation is balanced, but maybe I am wrong.

    I think this is more valid and leads to the result that companions are dead, if you listen carefully, thx for that video-> 13:27 min
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • emilemoemilemo Posts: 1,718Member Arc User
    So, striker companions got their dmg nerfed but tank comps are still hitting hard /20k-40k range/. I guess the nerf to those is next in line then ?
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • emilemoemilemo Posts: 1,718Member Arc User
    warravana said:

    onin002 said:

    If companions yesterday did to much damage and today to little, why not hit a middle value in next patch?

    Beats me. Just because I don't think it's a big problem doesn't mean that I don't think that it's unfixable.

    I suspect, however, that for some reason, the dev team is either okay with or explicitly in preference of the low-damage companion model.
    I just tested 35 different companions against target dummies... the majority of them are doing about 10 -15% of your total DPS, which amounts to roughly the same DPS boost i'm getting from running an augment... it's pretty well balanced as of this patch

    And why did you decide what should be 10%? Who do you think will cause more damage in battle, having a sword and a tame bear in hand? Wild beast or a man with a sword? Why not 50% or 150%? Most people agree that the pets nerf in the last patch is stupid, why did you decide that 10% is enough? Have you decided that you have the highest intelligence among us all and you have the right to decide how correctly??
    Sorry mate but who are most people? Cause I gotta say my comps used to hit for 50k singles and 30-40k aoe attacks before the last patch which made them more powerful than any player character. Why should we become our companions companion?

    Pet damage was way over any reasonable margin. Is it too low now - maybe, but it shouldnt be higher than ours.
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User
    emilemo said:

    warravana said:

    onin002 said:

    If companions yesterday did to much damage and today to little, why not hit a middle value in next patch?

    Beats me. Just because I don't think it's a big problem doesn't mean that I don't think that it's unfixable.

    I suspect, however, that for some reason, the dev team is either okay with or explicitly in preference of the low-damage companion model.
    I just tested 35 different companions against target dummies... the majority of them are doing about 10 -15% of your total DPS, which amounts to roughly the same DPS boost i'm getting from running an augment... it's pretty well balanced as of this patch

    And why did you decide what should be 10%? Who do you think will cause more damage in battle, having a sword and a tame bear in hand? Wild beast or a man with a sword? Why not 50% or 150%? Most people agree that the pets nerf in the last patch is stupid, why did you decide that 10% is enough? Have you decided that you have the highest intelligence among us all and you have the right to decide how correctly??
    Sorry mate but who are most people? Cause I gotta say my comps used to hit for 50k singles and 30-40k aoe attacks before the last patch which made them more powerful than any player character. Why should we become our companions companion?

    Pet damage was way over any reasonable margin. Is it too low now - maybe, but it shouldnt be higher than ours.
    Why?
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • vendoodvendood Posts: 77Member Arc User
    edited April 7
    Personally I feel that summoned companions should be hitting around 75% of my damage - with the problems/issues with companion AI, pathing, targeting delays etc. that should end up with them doing about 50% of my total damage.

    With an augment, I should be about 40% stronger due to stats/boosts from the augment. That might be less 'raw' damage addition but I would be able to use/apply it more effectively than hoping my companions IQ (incompetence quotient) doesn't kick in too badly.

    This also means that areas could be tuned to an average difficulty of '1.5 characters worth of damage' and either companion type would be valid.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    Augments will be next to get nerfed, the moment it is obvious that they overcome any companion by far, like statbuff get´s equalized and HP boost might stay. Things back in line but most customers not happy with the result.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    mushellka said:

    Honestly, I think companions are an unnecessary part of the game, and they should just remove them whole cloth, so it's hard for me to be sympathetic to people complaining.

    So why the heck are you here? In the companions thread?
    Your statements adds nothing to the subject.
    If you don't like and don't need companions, go away and stop trolling!




    Companions ARE a part of the game.

    Also, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean my statements add nothing to the subject.

    If nothing else, if X% of the player base doesn't place heavy emphasis on companions, but those people never make that opinion known, the dev team doesn't have that information, and therefore makes suboptimal decisions (assuming, of course, that more information allows the dev team to make better decisions-which is a contestable hypothesis and I'm sympathetic to the counter position).

    Stop being personally hostile.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    warravana said:

    onin002 said:

    If companions yesterday did to much damage and today to little, why not hit a middle value in next patch?

    Beats me. Just because I don't think it's a big problem doesn't mean that I don't think that it's unfixable.

    I suspect, however, that for some reason, the dev team is either okay with or explicitly in preference of the low-damage companion model.
    I just tested 35 different companions against target dummies... the majority of them are doing about 10 -15% of your total DPS, which amounts to roughly the same DPS boost i'm getting from running an augment... it's pretty well balanced as of this patch

    And why did you decide what should be 10%? Who do you think will cause more damage in battle, having a sword and a tame bear in hand? Wild beast or a man with a sword? Why not 50% or 150%? Most people agree that the pets nerf in the last patch is stupid, why did you decide that 10% is enough? Have you decided that you have the highest intelligence among us all and you have the right to decide how correctly??
    Okay, so, your damage from self + damage from companion is (generally) what a player should optimize for. An augment has damage from companion be 0, but increases damage from self. So the damage from companion needs to be set up so that the differential from the augment to damage from self is equal to the damage from companion.

    ERGO there's actual a mathematical function of how much damage a companion should do. If we sort of guesstimate each 1k of additional stat points to be worth +1% damage, then if an augment gains an additional 10k stat points over a non-augment, it suggests that the total damage output of a non-augment should be 10% the damage output of the character in question. I don't know what the exact numbers are, but someone with said numbers could actually show some hard math.

    I say 1% per 1k because capping all offensive stats is plausible without augments, meaning that the only stats that are relevant are power and HP. That may be an out of date assumption, but the bottom line holds: find an average +damage per stat point value, look at how much augments give, etc.

    The interesting fact of this is, *companion damage should scale with weapon damage.* I don't know how companion damage works and I'm guessing that's not how it does (if it does-kudos to the dev team). Because otherwise, non-augment companions will always be made obsolete as time goes by. Which I guess is kind of working as intended, as companions aren't actually companions, they're gear in the form of bodies-on-field.

    There's a lot of alternate approaches the game could take to companions. For instance, maybe a companion can fill a party slot, but can't be used in group content: in this fashion, companions can be a much more powerful, but A.) still less powerful than an actual PC and B.) aren't going to help you out in group content. Since they're such a greater impact on the game, you could actually level them up more seriously (rather than the current system of four tiers and then you're basically done). But obviously, NWO isn't about to throw out the entire system whole cloth.
  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User
    edited April 7
    Well, that's a reasonable explanation. 1k=1%. And relying on it we come to the figure of 40% of the damage of the character.

    If you take the numbers of normal DDs, such as Barbie, Hunter or Mage (real ones, but not fitted on a dummy for the sake of general statistics), and take 40% of these figures, then we just get the damage to pets as it was before the last edit.
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • jules#6770 jules Posts: 165Member Arc User

    Does anyone know what the new stats will be for the Fawn of Shiallia who gives only recovery as an active bonus? What will recovery be replaced with in Mod16?

    Power and Crit (bigger stat is crit)... I have all companions in my companion overview in the pocket wiki:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fP_cUugHdsObvQDzLFijGA-mVm_qLmSy0MI62aTLkDM/edit?usp=sharing

    Also, the formula for stat transfers actually hasn't changed... Just the base value for companions and augments has changed.

    Base value now is "(Rank -4) * 100" (at least for all ranks >= 10)
    Thanks a lot for that document!
    retired 24k HR former trapper | SW/DC/TR/OP | what's "roots"
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Posts: 119Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    >

    Can you provide any more information about that "test"?
    Combat advantage active or not?
    Statcaps at optimum or not? -> Was your augment optimzed for the test in terms of stacking power by reaching the cap for Arp , crit, accuracy, CA etc.
    In other words , did you waste 50% of your stats by overcapping Arp, crit, accur and CA slotting that augment?
    If so your results are not valid and a waste of time in my eyes.
    Did you just hit a level 9 dummy to compare damage, or did you check vs a level 70 dummy?
    Actually I find it hard anyway to gain solid results without having a level 80 dummy (could not find a lev80, only Stronghold right?)

    * last comment on that test. Did your Companion die in between hitting that dummy , had to be revived, lost his target, run in the wrong direction ? :)
    ->unpredictable variables you have to include into your conclusion "things are balanced" vs a still standing Dummy
    -> not to talk about a significant HP boost you get from that augment on top.
    I don´t think the situation is balanced, but maybe I am wrong.

    1. If I had CA active the damage was generally closer to 10% (it didn't look like the pet gets CA, just me), without CA the companion did a greater percentage.. also there are a handful of companions that are still doing 40-50%, I expect that to be changed before go live.

    2. My augment was balanced for group play, not solo (and no I wasn't way over cap and "dumping stats").. so yes I would expect a bit more still with an augment, but then again you would expect more in group play as well by having more consistent CA

    3. Stronghold has lvl 80 dummies

    4. I get where you are going with companion deaths, etc... really the best way to test is to get a group together and go do lvl 80 content... do the same run with an augment, then do the same run without after re configuring your stats. I've done this.. and it still feels pretty well balanced

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    edited April 8

    >

    Can you provide any more information about that "test"?
    Combat advantage active or not?
    Statcaps at optimum or not? -> Was your augment optimzed for the test in terms of stacking power by reaching the cap for Arp , crit, accuracy, CA etc.
    In other words , did you waste 50% of your stats by overcapping Arp, crit, accur and CA slotting that augment?
    If so your results are not valid and a waste of time in my eyes.
    Did you just hit a level 9 dummy to compare damage, or did you check vs a level 70 dummy?
    Actually I find it hard anyway to gain solid results without having a level 80 dummy (could not find a lev80, only Stronghold right?)

    * last comment on that test. Did your Companion die in between hitting that dummy , had to be revived, lost his target, run in the wrong direction ? :)
    ->unpredictable variables you have to include into your conclusion "things are balanced" vs a still standing Dummy
    -> not to talk about a significant HP boost you get from that augment on top.
    I don´t think the situation is balanced, but maybe I am wrong.

    1. If I had CA active the damage was generally closer to 10% (it didn't look like the pet gets CA, just me), without CA the companion did a greater percentage.. also there are a handful of companions that are still doing 40-50%, I expect that to be changed before go live.

    2. My augment was balanced for group play, not solo (and no I wasn't way over cap and "dumping stats").. so yes I would expect a bit more still with an augment, but then again you would expect more in group play as well by having more consistent CA

    3. Stronghold has lvl 80 dummies

    4. I get where you are going with companion deaths, etc... really the best way to test is to get a group together and go do lvl 80 content... do the same run with an augment, then do the same run without after re configuring your stats. I've done this.. and it still feels pretty well balanced

    A test like this is somehow timeconsuming, so I simply follwed the last vid northside posted on youtube.
    Following his results companions are way behind augments, and he pretty much adjusted all stats towards the caps :(
    You can find it here, good informations so far, thy for that great work again, actually it displays an overall 20% + damage from that augment vs companions on a dummy, in a dungeone it will be even more where companions KI will fail and they gonna die in a row...not much to say, my choice based on the last changes is a pretty easy choice, for all my toons.
    That striker-companion deals about 5% of overall damage. Simply looking at the statboni you get from that augment you even don´t need to start a test to know what is gonna happen imo. Combat advantage is gained by classfeature/power CW, SW(NPNM), TR will spend in mod 16, even soloing stuff will be faster that way with a HP bonus on top on some classes.
    In the end I think companions need to deal about 20-30% of the damage a player deals, if they should be from any interest in mod 16.
    And if your tank is not capable to deal any dps, same as your supporter build, or you simply fail in building for dps, you will be happy for running a companion that deals 50%+ from what you can do in mod 16 -> this would be a customer friendly and most welcome solution i guess.
    If devs have issues with player being happy, they need to nerf augments significantly (wich is gonna happen in short I guess)
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Posts: 523Member Arc User
    One good thing to come about with all the companion changes in MOD16?

    When I first started playing NW I choose companions based on fun and how they matched the personality/theme of my character. But once I was level 70 for a while, I started to read more about how this companion was better than that one and all that stuff. So, 12 toons later I tried to have companions that were the best strategically and they were rarely what I liked most from a theme/aesthetic POV.

    But now, that most companions will be pretty much window decorations in MOD16, I have said screw it and now while I can still play pre-Mod16 (Mostly on PS4) I am throwing caution to the wind and all my summoned companions are fun and the ones I like best because they seem right with the character not just because they are BiS or whatever.

    Screw that! If my moon elf hunter wants a damn sylph as an a companion so be it! If my CW wants a sprite, so be it! If my Tiefling SW wants an assassin drake so be it! If my OP wants a damn Fawn of Shiallia so be it! We may only have a few months left of the NW we came to love so much and I’m going out with a what’s the most fun.
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  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User
    One day after the release of the M16, you will realize that you will have to choose an augment or pet that will give you a combat advantage. And no fun.
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • draugkirdraugkir Posts: 99Member Arc User
    Lets remove companions from the game too.

    Foundry already gone, lets remove something else now so code will be lighter alowing the servers to run wihtout lag with all the huge influx of new players eagerly coming to mod 16.

    bye bye Companions!
  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User
    5 active companions get XP because VIP. Without VIP they get nothing.

    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,592Member Arc User
    warravana said:

    One day after the release of the M16, you will realize that you will have to choose an augment or pet that will give you a combat advantage. And no fun.

    well combat advantage if you went with that instead of maximizing for crit. but yeah, all they've done by nerfing pet damage is make it so everyone is going to use an augment and probably choose crit over CA. there will be no choice which makes me very sad. comp changes were the one silver lining to this big old cumulonimbus cloud. now they aren't. it's just another drop in the ocean of sad.
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  • warravanawarravana Posts: 30Member Arc User
    edited April 9

    warravana said:

    One day after the release of the M16, you will realize that you will have to choose an augment or pet that will give you a combat advantage. And no fun.

    well combat advantage if you went with that instead of maximizing for crit. but yeah, all they've done by nerfing pet damage is make it so everyone is going to use an augment and probably choose crit over CA. there will be no choice which makes me very sad. comp changes were the one silver lining to this big old cumulonimbus cloud. now they aren't. it's just another drop in the ocean of sad.
    Even if you have 0 CA, pet with the generation of CA add you 20% damage when playing solo

    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • rafaeldarafaelda Posts: 619Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    warravana said:

    One day after the release of the M16, you will realize that you will have to choose an augment or pet that will give you a combat advantage. And no fun.

    well combat advantage if you went with that instead of maximizing for crit. but yeah, all they've done by nerfing pet damage is make it so everyone is going to use an augment and probably choose crit over CA. there will be no choice which makes me very sad. comp changes were the one silver lining to this big old cumulonimbus cloud. now they aren't. it's just another drop in the ocean of sad.
    Companions damage balance cant be done, theres a lot of work to be done there
    Companions damage now is bugged as Atwill / Encounters where for players 2 weeks ago, some hit like a truck some like a feather.
    Ex. Paranoid Delusions (for HR and CW at least) and any wizard companion thet uses atwills will hit for 1000 to 2000 while a companion that is a encounter user like Duergar Theurge hits for 50.000, Makos hits for 00 dmg with meteors...
    This kills a lot of pets that use atwills, and if Encounter based companions get theyr dmg lowered they will become useless.
    we going back to the era of floating stones as only companions and i cant believe that is WAI
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited April 10
    I really like augments, I remember when Bonding Stones were tweaked and made them all redundant on my toons. I really want them to be a viable and a good choice again.

    So..

    Active companions need a boost.

    In truth, I would much rather they get a boost to the stats they provide and their damage contribution stay small, but they need a boost.

    It was painfully obvious that augment was a better choice for the toons I experimented with tonight.

    I’d rather active pets got brought closer to Augments, because the effect of Augments feels valuable, than have Augments come down in effect.
    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
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  • cabar1cabar1 Posts: 124Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    i would like all of you who ask for companion powers to come down should go work with the devs since you like nerfs!
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  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,031Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    adinosii said:


    Suggestions to my fellow players:

    In mod 16 it will take longer to level up companions than in Mod 15, as only your summoned companion gains XP. You might not want to bother getting a set of companions to Legendary status for the bolster bonus (with only a 0.5% gain, compared to Epic it is hardly worth it), but for the Offensive/Defensive/Utility bonuses, it is certainly worth it to make the companions you are going to use Legendary.

    So, in order to save time (and companion XP scrolls), level up your companions now, while all 5 active companions gain XP. For example, if you have a Level 1 Epic companion, it is worthwhile to run around with it, just to get it to level 35 for "free".

    Wait, what is that level of VIP getting instead of companion levels?
  • epicfenix43epicfenix43 Posts: 7Member Arc User

    I notice something strange inside the summon companion "inventory"
    I've got lot of for collectibles and i try to activate them all to test if there was a limit of space.

    While i went to check the inventory this is what i looked
    Cattura

    On Fighters -> 2 swashbuckler , one blue and one green
    On Creatures -> 2 phase spider , one blue and one green - 2 rimefire golem , one blue and one green

    On the same char inventory i had 2 aranea too, both purple, and I managed to activate only one

    Think need a check and repair for that.

    I also found the same problem, here's the proof:



    I have 2 duplicates of sylphs a rank 35 (the one I have on the live) and one of rank 1, the same thing for the harp bard one of rank 8-10 (the one I have on live) and one of rank 1, please fix this duplication bug is annoying and prevents you from manually deleting double mates.

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