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Feedback: Companions

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  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    I thought the purpose of the companion change for Mod 16 was so that people could choose different companions and not have to slot one particular type because they are BiS.

    However, it's a practical landmine trying to make every companion, augment or summoned, equal. Even if one type offers a 1% advantage over everything else, then it'll be BiS.

    As I see it in Preview, if you need stats to round off your character, then slot an augment. However, if you are solo and can't get combat advantage, slot a summoned companion. In parties, where CA may be obtained by other means, then an augment may be preferable. So, while one type may be BiS in a particular setting, it seems that both have their uses in the general run of play when soloing or grouping up.

    For people not at end-game or chasing BiS, that is, most levelling characters, the other powers of companions become more important e.g. tanking, healing or perhaps a little more DPS depending on what that player needs. So I suppose the Mod 16 companion system will work better for them. Perhaps this is the demographic that the companion changes would be seen as a success for.

    Will the companion change make me use both an augment and summoned companion at particular intervals? Probably. Arguing over what is best theoretically at end-stage, while interesting and useful to thresh out the meta, shouldn't be worth fighting with each other about. The only bad thing I could see come out from this is, if you are in a group and are criticized for running one or the other because it isn't deemed "BiS".

    I've had that issue with augments on live, so this is just delicious revenge~
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    Feedback
    Redemption seems to be the new lifesteal. I like it as it helps in solo content in Vandrakdoom, but is it working as intended? Seems to be too overpowered (13k-16k HP heal regularly).
    Companions easily outaggro the owner in solo content, it will be a nightmare for tanks if it works the same way in dungeons.
    Companions are way more tanky than toons even if the companion was a DPS (Air Archon and Splinter were my test companions). This with the above (outaggro easily) will make companions to be the tank in group content.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,266 Arc User
    edited March 2019


    that bonus seems to never proc.
    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    - The delay for bondings to apply is much shorter, 3 seconds or so. That's good.

    - The companion influence boon works and even shows on the char sheet, that's good too.

    - Augments give significantly more stats than non-augments and benefit from comp influence, the hidden 2k bonus is gone, the augment perk references the HP bonus. All good!

    - The way stat transfer works still is as cryptic as before. I couldn't figure out what the new formula is but there's little point in doing so if it's gonna change again next week. All I know for sure is that "Augmentation" transfers 150% of stats (at least at legendary quality).

    - the tooltip of rank 15 bondings still says 73% but I can't say if it actually gives that now or if it's still bugged.

    - dark enchantments and insignae of dominance still have no effect on companion influence, and instead refer to "companion influence strength".

    - The companion "stats and powers" tab still is incomplete and misleading. For example, the new 1k bonus in 3 stats of legendary augments appears on this tab as added to base stats, bumping them from 3450 to 4450 (15% bolster). But in reality the 1k bonus is transfered directly and isn't affected by, eg, the 150% multiplier of "Augmentation".

    This system needs to be made a lot more straightforward :

    1. have the "stats and powers" tab show (base stats + augment bonus + equipment stats)*(1+companion influence+bolster).

    2. have augmentation and bondings transfer the stats actually displayed on the "stats and powers" tab.

    I did figure out the formulas today and can tell you the following:
    - The hidden 2k bonus, not sure what you mean here? The 50% bonus from base that we had before? It's still there
    - Augments (and also companions now) transfers 10% bonus per quality upgrade (so 10% bonus at common, 20% at uncommon..... 50% at legendary)
    - Companion Influence bonus now applies to augments (didn't do that before)
    - Dark enchantments indeed have no effect on stat transfer
    - The 1k bonus stats you get from augments are multiplied by your bonding % but not by bolster of companion influence bonus

    Most likely the formula is going to change again - but math is fun :tongue:
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    @rainer#8575 Care to tell us what the formula is then?

    What do you mean by "50% bonus from base"?
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    @""rainer#8575"
    about dark enchant, in my tests there is an alteration in HP of the companions. Something around 900 points of health in rank 14.
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    NVM had to force reload the page.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I haven't noticed this level of performance from the Cleric Disciple

    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Trizian deals 172248 Physical Damage to Assassin Drake with Sacred Flame.

    Kind of odd watching your healer pet pop everything when it finally casts a spell.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > The point is that there are multiple, conflicting recommendations, and no clear consensus on what is "best" - to me, that indicates the balance is about right.

    Or maybe people simply didn't have enough time to figure out what's gonna be best yet.

    Give us 6 months and everyone will probably be using the same companion again.

    I'm gonna try and make augments work as hard as I can but if some other option proves to be better I will probably switch sooner or later.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    > @adinosii said:

    > The point is that there are multiple, conflicting recommendations, and no clear consensus on what is "best" - to me, that indicates the balance is about right.



    Or maybe people simply didn't have enough time to figure out what's gonna be best yet.



    Give us 6 months and everyone will probably be using the same companion again.



    I'm gonna try and make augments work as hard as I can but if some other option proves to be better I will probably switch sooner or later.

    That's probably the closest thing to balance as can be expected, really.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    artifleur said:

    @rainer#8575 Care to tell us what the formula is then?



    What do you mean by "50% bonus from base"?

    Formula for augments (for this patch) is:
    BV = Base value (3000 for legendary, 2050 for epic, 1500 for rare, 1000 for uncommon, 700 for common)
    MP = Multiplier (50% for legendary, 40% for epic, 30% for rare, 20% for uncommon, 10% for common)
    BB = Bolster Bonus (1+ Bolster %)
    CIP = Companion Influence %
    SB = "Stats" skill bonus (when applicable)
    GS = Gearstats without combined rating
    B% = Total bonding %

    ((BV x BB) x (1 + MP + CIP) + SB + GS) x B%


    Formula for companions hasn't changed much since last patch. Just combined rating is not taken along (sometimes it does glitch in for 3 of the stats but it's definitely not stable...).
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    @""rainer#8575"
    about dark enchant, in my tests there is an alteration in HP of the companions. Something around 900 points of health in rank 14.

    Haven't done thorough tests on HP yet - but that's the only affected stat then if you're right :-)
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    > @rainer#8575 said:
    > Formula for augments (for this patch) is:
    > BV = Base value (3000 for legendary, 2050 for epic, 1500 for rare, 1000 for uncommon, 700 for common)
    > MP = Multiplier (50% for legendary, 40% for epic, 30% for rare, 20% for uncommon, 10% for common)
    > BB = Bolster Bonus (1+ Bolster %)
    > CIP = Companion Influence %
    > SB = "Stats" skill bonus (when applicable)
    > GS = Gearstats without combined rating
    > B% = Total bonding %
    >
    > ((BV x BB) x (1 + MP + CIP) + SB + GS) x B%
    >
    >
    > Formula for companions hasn't changed much since last patch. Just combined rating is not taken along (sometimes it does glitch in for 3 of the stats but it's definitely not stable...).

    Thanks!
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User

    Formula for augments (for this patch) is:
    BV = Base value (3000 for legendary, 2050 for epic, 1500 for rare, 1000 for uncommon, 700 for common)
    MP = Multiplier (50% for legendary, 40% for epic, 30% for rare, 20% for uncommon, 10% for common)
    BB = Bolster Bonus (1+ Bolster %)
    CIP = Companion Influence %
    SB = "Stats" skill bonus (when applicable)
    GS = Gearstats without combined rating
    B% = Total bonding %

    ((BV x BB) x (1 + MP + CIP) + SB + GS) x B%


    Formula for companions hasn't changed much since last patch. Just combined rating is not taken along (sometimes it does glitch in for 3 of the stats but it's definitely not stable...).

    There only was a minor over-sight in your formula :

    (BV x BB x (1 + MP + CIP) + SB + GS) x (1 + B%)

    Good job figuring it out.

    I concur that Combined Rating is bugged, sometimes it applies, sometimes it doesn't.

    Also, the tooltips of Bonding Runestones still are wrong, rank 15 gives 70% not 73%.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    Hmm not sure about the "1+" part, I *think* it is without it but I cannot check right now.. My calculator definitely produces the exact values that the game produces :smile:

    Bondings rank 15 give 70% indeed

    Will recheck the 1+ part when I'm home
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    Without the 1+ it would all be 0 without any bonding runestone.

    Perhaps you simply considered that B% was (1+ the sum of bondings) which gives the same result.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,216 Arc User
    I feel the difference between Epic and Legendary companions is too small, as far as the "Bolster" stat is concerned.

    Basically, it makes sense to get companions from Epic to Legendary for the Defense/Offense/Utility bonus, or if you are using them as your primary/summoned companion.

    However, the difference in "bolster" bonus provided by an Epic and a Legendary companion is really too small to justify spending AD or companion tokens on getting your 4 best companion in the same group as your summoned one to Legendary (unless you are using them also for their Defense/Offense/Utility type bonus).

    The 0.5% boost just does not justify the cost. I would increase the bonus of Legendary companions by another 0.5, so there is a 1% difference between Epic and Legendary.
    (Mostly) taking a break from the game - hoping for improvements.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    Without the 1+ it would all be 0 without any bonding runestone.



    Perhaps you simply considered that B% was (1+ the sum of bondings) which gives the same result.

    Good point, I did not check the no-bondings scenario. Maybe you actually indeed do not get any stats without bonding runestones :wink:
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    I would think without Bonding Runestones the only thing you would get from your companion would be the active bonuses.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    It is indeed "1 +" as it is in my calculator. My bad for forgetting that one :smile:

    So that means that with 3x70% bonding runestones, you actually don't get 2.1 times the companion stats, but 3.1 times. That might explain why we get so many stats transferred! Without bondings you still get companion stats
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User

    Without bondings you still get companion stats

    So non-augments are now acting like augments by transferring stats, and augments can now use Bonding Runestones...

    So, best of both worlds, so to speak.

  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    > @mdarkangel#4696 said:
    > Without bondings you still get companion stats
    >
    > So non-augments are now acting like augments by transferring stats, and augments can now use Bonding Runestones...
    >
    > So, best of both worlds, so to speak.

    No, it only works that way for augments.
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    artifleur said:

    No, it only works that way for augments.

    Thank you, I did miss that in rainer's earlier post.
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    It’s what makes it a fair trade off. A companion that actually does decent damage with potentially interesting combat effects or a companion that gives way more stats, but doesn’t contribute otherwise. I am actually quite liking the companion changes and look forward to testing my stable of previously untouched combatants...
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 995 Arc User

    artifleur said:

    - The delay for bondings to apply is much shorter, 3 seconds or so. That's good.

    - The companion influence boon works and even shows on the char sheet, that's good too.

    - Augments give significantly more stats than non-augments and benefit from comp influence, the hidden 2k bonus is gone, the augment perk references the HP bonus. All good!

    - The way stat transfer works still is as cryptic as before. I couldn't figure out what the new formula is but there's little point in doing so if it's gonna change again next week. All I know for sure is that "Augmentation" transfers 150% of stats (at least at legendary quality).

    - the tooltip of rank 15 bondings still says 73% but I can't say if it actually gives that now or if it's still bugged.

    - dark enchantments and insignae of dominance still have no effect on companion influence, and instead refer to "companion influence strength".

    - The companion "stats and powers" tab still is incomplete and misleading. For example, the new 1k bonus in 3 stats of legendary augments appears on this tab as added to base stats, bumping them from 3450 to 4450 (15% bolster). But in reality the 1k bonus is transfered directly and isn't affected by, eg, the 150% multiplier of "Augmentation".

    This system needs to be made a lot more straightforward :

    1. have the "stats and powers" tab show (base stats + augment bonus + equipment stats)*(1+companion influence+bolster).

    2. have augmentation and bondings transfer the stats actually displayed on the "stats and powers" tab.

    I did figure out the formulas today and can tell you the following:
    - The hidden 2k bonus, not sure what you mean here? The 50% bonus from base that we had before? It's still there
    - Augments (and also companions now) transfers 10% bonus per quality upgrade (so 10% bonus at common, 20% at uncommon..... 50% at legendary)
    - Companion Influence bonus now applies to augments (didn't do that before)
    - Dark enchantments indeed have no effect on stat transfer
    - The 1k bonus stats you get from augments are multiplied by your bonding % but not by bolster of companion influence bonus

    Most likely the formula is going to change again - but math is fun :tongue:

    i think dark enchantments provide companion strenght like increase its damage, increase its max hp and its damage resistamce
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 995 Arc User
    @sgrantdev has the team thought about give same level to companion like same level of the player and split diferent levels for each quality rank
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 717 Arc User
    Black Ice Ioun Stone needs an update to the tooltip for the Player Power. Current text looks like data from a table - not terribly descriptive for an end user.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 717 Arc User
    It's a minor thing - but I still haven't seen a dev explain the reason behind renaming the Wayward Wizard to Dwarven Wayward Wizard.

    The character model is unchanged, so ??? He's not a dwarf - is there a plan for a different Wayward Wizard somewhere else in the game?
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