Just got off preview and here are my thoughts on the current build:
At-Wills: still not worthwhile. that's pretty much the end of this one. if you have more than 1 mob on you you are better off just sticking with block for divinity gain/smite/bane/tw. I know you don't like to hear it but that's what as a player I actually find myself doing. there just isn't any benefit to the at-wills to make them worth using except as an afterthought on a single mob. if that mob heals they aren't even worth using then.
Feats: unless you choose to use the specific things they buff they are literally useless. I use 2 of them and even then its like meh why not. seems ridiculous as a core class feature that unless you pick very specific encounters/dailies that your feats would do nothing.
Divinity regen is far too low out of combat. sitting around waiting on it to regen before a fight is, how show I phrase this, not fun. it also leads to the above just block all the time playstyle to gain divinity. basically the whole divinity thing needs a look at. I am not saying its bad... it's just not good (hopefully yet!)
Once again, this is all from solo levelling game play, I haven't hit 80 or grouped up at this point. However, I have found situations where my pet has acquired aggro and if theres no divinity to burn im not getting it back. it's a design flaw catch-22. you are out of divinity and lost aggro, to get aggro back you need divinity, but you can not gain divinity unless you have aggro. like I said, mechanic needs some re-thinking.
> @dukeguard#8158 said: > Am I the only one who wants the Op to have a dps path?
You aren't the only one. Me too. But looks like the devs want to make us support slaves that can't damage by their own. I personnaly would be happy to sacrifice a few tanking and healing abilities for damage
> Am I the only one who wants the Op to have a dps path?
You aren't the only one. Me too. But looks like the devs want to make us support slaves that can't damage by their own. I personnaly would be happy to sacrifice a few tanking and healing abilities for damage
Even the cleric has a dps path out of the blue in m16.
@ron#1747 Sadly they have confirmed that they won’t allow us to have a class change on a like for like basis, it’s either like the new OP paths or lump it.
> Am I the only one who wants the Op to have a dps path?
You aren't the only one. Me too. But looks like the devs want to make us support slaves that can't damage by their own. I personnaly would be happy to sacrifice a few tanking and healing abilities for damage
Even the cleric has a dps path out of the blue in m16.
Yes. Every class has two paragon paths, and each path is a role. There are a few DPS/DPS classes, but most classes have two different roles.
Clerics are fully capable of dealing damage in the PnP game, so why wouldn't they be a heal/DPS class? Are you suggesting that they should have been heal/heal?
As far as Paladins getting a DPS path, well, yes, I think that a lot of people would have liked that, but Paladins were set-up to fill any role and that goes against the direction the game is taking. They could have made them a heal/DPS or a tank DPS, but a heal/tank would give them a unique role combination and provide a third option for both of those in-demand roles.
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@asterdahl you are doing great work with the communication, and it's appreciated even if what you say isn't always what everyone wants to hear. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Started playing around with an Oathkeeper .. Let me get this out of the way up front: That is not a good paragon path name. Search Oathkeepers.
Warder (level 5) and Keeper (Level 2) were two of the old "level titles" for Paladins back in AD&D, as was Justicar (level 8), and it seems like they might be good options for the healer paragon path.
Felt like I was doing better than when I was using a Justicar. No damage de-buff, and so while damage wasn't supposed to be my specialty I could certainly dish it out better, and I could still block if I needed to, with heals covering up for whatever defense buffs I may have lost.
As a solo player the need to keep aggro just isn't there. In fact, if my companion can steal aggro that opens an opponent up to combat advantage.
The tank path just didn't feel as capable as the healer path in those early efforts in Undermountain.
I am guessing this is a bug, so I'll put it here and you can decide...
My Oathkeeper (again, bad name, please change) has Bane and Smite on their action bar. Whenever I can not use those powers their divinity cost appears in the slot.
For Bane it is 270. For Smite it is 198.
l have not noticed this before and am wondering if it is something in settings or if it supposed to show at all.
I am trying to sit here and figure out where to start. There is just so much wrong with the justicar as it currently sits, and knowing from experience that what I say will fall on deaf developer ears.
First, I am saying this from over 20 years of MMO experience. I started playing Everquest in 1998, and have not stopped playing MMO's since (in fact longer, as I really started in MUD's years earlier but now I am dating myself.) I don't say this to toot my own horn, just to explain that I have seen pretty much everything in MMO's over the years, and have seen what you are currently do fail.
The issues here are not just about the powers, feats, and stats all seeming to work against each other, or having to choose to pigeonhole yourself into a damage sink to the sheer exclusion of anything else. It is the core design principle of the new class that is a failure. You have made a class which is a combination of early EQ hit a button every 30s or so to manage super finite resources and the original attempt of Blizzard to make a paladin tank. Both have been shown by history to be failures. You have made a class with little to no player engagement which performs poorly in survivability, has threat issues, or if you take powers to handle threat has less survivability and no offense. You have made a class which boils down to this: not fun to play.
The problem with your model is that in solo play its painful. plain and simple. which means levelling and casual play with them will decrease... which leads to less tanks and therefore less groups being filled in queue and longer queue times. So less fun for everyone.
Sadly, you have already committed to this model, and nothing said here by anyone about the poor class design will have any impact at all. We are all stuck with your bad decisions until we find something else to play, which is what will happen.
Hello! Thank you for taking the time to come onto the forum and provide your feedback. I assure you it is not falling on deaf ears, and I am genuinely appreciative of your time.
The thing you describe having a problem with—the pace of power usage, is actually the thing we could most easily change, so I wouldn't say we are "already committed to this model." We'd like everyone to have a chance to play around with the changes for more than just a week before making any drastic changes but nothing is off the table.
NW has the feel that Character Statistics don't really impact the overall performance of a Class. NW is more about Item Level, Companions, Mounts and all the Runestone/Enhancements Added. Who cares about CON, when you can just add it by other means. NW needs to try and make Statistics mean something. Less Items that give Awareness, Defense, HP, Deflect, etc and more that provide Stat Increases.
Maybe even adapt new concepts like Dodge, Physical Resistance, Magical Resistance. And get away from excessive amounts of numbers aka 250000 HPs. Why not 1000 HPs something more realistic. And not sure why AC doesn't matter. Goes to show neither does STATS. Thank God my Guild isn't THACO!
1000 hp is odd to implement, if you hit something for 10, and ge
I am guessing this is a bug, so I'll put it here and you can decide...
My Oathkeeper (again, bad name, please change) has Bane and Smite on their action bar. Near as I can figure, whenever I can not use those powers a number appears over them.
For Bane it is 270. For Smite it is 198. Maybe it is something that I have done with the settings, but I don't think so.
Any time I lack the divinity to cast Bane I see 270 in small numbers over the top of the power and whenever I am not in combat or lack the divinity for Smite there is a 198 over it.
I have tried to figure out if those numbers have any significance, but I can not find any. It's not magnitude, it's not divinity cost, it's not anything as far as I can tell.
i think it might be divinity cost. you have total of 1000 divinity, so bane is little over 1/4 with smite under 1/5
> @pitmonster#5684 said: > Took my Pally (tank) and my Warlock through the intro after respec'ing them. Both had healer companions. My Pally, whos HP normally never went into the red was bleeding HP as I could not keep my Templar's Wrath up and the healer was not keeping up. > > > Templar's wrath is a very different spell than it was pre Module 16. It's mostly for keeping threat in AoE situations, I would try adjusting what powers you are using as a paladin and see if that changes things. I haven't had a lot of trouble soloing as a paladin. > > That being said, warlock is a bit too powerful right now, so it doesn't surprise me that things felt very easy as a soulweaver. We'll be making further adjustments. > > > > ROTFLMAO.... Ah... the problem is I would never take this "tank" to tank anything! I'm sorry but this pally version is garbage. JMHO. I mean this is my main and I now HATE playing it. There is just nothing I like about this new class update. > > Please try playing with your powers a bit more before deciding that Paladin is a worthless tank. I've been playing paladin as tank in a number of internal playtests in various endgame dungeons and it is a very capable tank. Please try to provide specific feedback if you're having trouble. > > > > > > Took my pally out to Chult to do some solo'ing. Now this is content where you get mobbed and hit pretty hard. I was still surviving but at points my health was down to 30%, and that is with a healer companion. Typically I run with a striker to help me add some DPS and combat advantage because the OP is so weak. So now not only am I on the verge of dying but combat is dragged out even longer for a class that it was already painfully slow to solo with. > > Part of protection is being able to eliminate foes who are doing damage. Does not matter if they are at 100% health or 1%, they hit you with the same amount of damage till you kill them. > > And as others have mentioned, I can't generate divinity to keep anything going. I get a hit or two in with smite because its about the only thing a pally has to damage with. And then I cannot erect the Divine Pallisade to fight behind. Unlike the old GF, when I block with shift, I am not hitting anything. And because mobs are all hitting at different times, when my shield is down I get hit. > > Changes to the powers... > > Templar's Wrath got nerfs with no temp HP. You added threat... which does ZERO for me in Solo which is 95% of my play time. > Relentless Avenger got MEGA nerfed by removing mob damage and knock back which stunned, and AP refill which allow more use of Divine Judgement. For a pally, the daily is simply how it is able to dish out any damage in solo and makes it playable, not overpowered. And being able to knock mobs back gives us breathing room to setup our encounter powers. And the healer does not even get access to this to help out the party and clear mobs > The tank path has no access to Circle of Power with previously adding protection and increased damage for the pally and party. In fact the healer gets it and it boost Divinity recharge which, again, the tank does not have access to > Absolution - I mean at this point I think you guys are just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with us. You took a power that could perma-temp add 50% HPs not only on ourselves but if we took the time and effort, allow us to add this to our party and companions. Now it adds 20% resist... for 8 sec... only on me?????? I mean talk about MEGA NERF! Your timing for clicking on it and it actually being useful would almost need to be perfect every single time... which is not much with the recharge nerf > Bane - now you've changed this as some sorta area target damage thing???? I'm freaking tanking over here! Just lowering my shield piles damage on me, I've not no time to be targeting stuff. Who asked for ranged powers? You know what a pally range power was, Relentless Avenger to get my a%$ in melee. And for a healer pally, bane was used for allies to buff them while dealing out healing to make a heal pally more useful. Now its some sorta crappy Templar's Wrath? > And just to cap this off, putting some of the pally's encounter powers behind divinity is garbage. I am just watching a tool icon never come back on during combat. Its like just removing an encounter power from my choices. > > > Changes to class features... > > Another MEGA NERF is taking away Aura of Wisdom. It was super useful for you and your party. Its not just about DPS, its about diversity of actions during combat instead of *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, block, *at-will* > I can't see anyone who is running a Pally not taking Composure, you might as will just make it a built in item. Divinity recharge is so pathetic and weak even with this active. Is it actually working? So basically the pally only really has one feature slot to fill. You may disagree with that statement... you would be wrong. > > > Changes to feats... > > 8 out of 10 of these are directly tied to a power that you may or may not even want to use or an effect that you may or may not care about. This is god alwfully restrictive > Pallys are slow. Only the GF was just as slow but they had Into the Fray. To counter this we had Swift Flash and Radiant Champion now both gone. I mean we are suppose to hit the boss first to argo!!!! We are going to be left behind! > I really don't care that Aura Gifts (sharing power) has been removed but that is a HUGE!!!!! change in the gear and enchants and companions and mounts and bonus sets, etc and so on that OP builds worked around. I cannot understate how you are completely TRASHING just about every piece of gear an OP worked on. > > > Changes to mechanics... > > I have posted this before, making a shield part of our HP makes no logical freak'ing sense! Are slabs of our fat hanging on them or something? In the real world a shied either blocks or it doesn't. If any HP was involved it would be for the integrity of the physical shield itself and at 0 it would be destroyed and need to be replaced. And don't suggest that magic has something to do with it, that is just a BS answer. > Divine Pallisade, if you actually have any divinity to raise it, creates some stationary cone shield... for reasons. I mean you have bosses jumping everywhere, red areas appearing all over the place, as a tank you are tying to stay in the face of the boss so your DPS class can move to the side or back, etc. Players and foes are moving EVERYWHERE! And just standing behind a static shield IS BORING!!!! I mean its like fighting the Civil War where you stand there and shoot one another in a line. That is not how combat works. This power is almost useless. And who am I protecting behind it? My DPS should be on the other side of the foe. I have no idea where my ranged classes are, I assume they are kiting and are in no way stationary > > > I will post my general feedback in that thread but for the pally, I have taken the time to go through and detail everything I can think of. One of the things I think you are missing is WHY a player plays a certain class. An OP is not flashy, they are not fast, they are not mopping up the floor with foes, etc. They are slow moving tanks. My daughter is a perfect example of why someone plays a OP... she plow through and not stress about her HP even if it takes her 2x as long. That is just an individual play style. GWF are attracted to that class for mostly different reasons. My 23 yo daughter stood behind me and watched me play my pally on preview which is what she plays and she simply said "I'm not coming back to play that mess of a class".
Agree 100% with this! Especially the useless class features no one will slot, since Aura of Courage and Wisdom are gone. Also, with Radiant Champion and Swift Flash gone, Movement gone, how are we supposed to lead the pack to hit enemies first? And how functional is Divine Palisade actually? Very true about combat position, how are dps supposed to be protected by this when they're behind/on the side of the boss?
@mithrosnomore From what I see on videos and read it appears that the meta is tending towards 5 DPS with healer companions. Where exactly would that leave the OP in its current iteration ? At least the Cleric can do DPS. Of course we can only wait and see
> @ananxiousnoob#0947 said: > @mithrosnomore From what I see on videos and read it appears that the meta is tending towards 5 DPS with healer companions. Where exactly would that leave the OP in its current iteration ? At least the Cleric can do DPS. Of course we can only wait and see
It leaves us with waiting for the mod to be finished instead of assuming the current state of the game will go live.
It’s really not that hard, the classes are not even finalised for the devs to start really adjusting the content.
Seriously...aaarrrggghh
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I played Neverwinter 3 years ago, I played GWf, so I decided to make a paladin of devotion, because I hate playing the tank, I loved playing with it, now with the mod 16, everything went downhill, a healing paladin , who needs to use healing potion, to heal when he is killing mobs, because he only heals after them dead. I'm not complaining about other things, but only about the cure that disappeared. Great disappointment of the Neverwinter team, ruined the game, I will end up going back to World of Warcraft (after 10 years I played and dropped to play Neverwinter)
Am I the only one who wants the Op to have a dps path?
I have a CW who wants a Tank path, same question. Dev's should not go into these kind of hidden requests, they finally opened their eyes and brought back NW to its core (as it should be).. Dev's must get the classes done before they jump (hope not) into that endless downwards spiral of complains and adjustments.
Personally I am content with their choices of character roles (Path)
i think it might be divinity cost. you have total of 1000 divinity, so bane is little over 1/4 with smite under 1/5
Yes, I checked and it's divinity cost (I would have sworn I looked the first time and the numbers didn't match up), but why have I never seen this before? Why have I (at least so far) not noticed it on other encounter powers? I suppose next time I get on to test I should just start slotting different encounter powers and seeing what happens, including if these numbers show up on my Ranger and maybe bring my Rogue over, too.
Need to edit my first post on this, though, where I said it wasn't divinity cost.
@mithrosnomore From what I see on videos and read it appears that the meta is tending towards 5 DPS with healer companions. Where exactly would that leave the OP in its current iteration ? At least the Cleric can do DPS. Of course we can only wait and see
The devs have acknowledged that they're aware 5xDPS with healer pets and insignias is currently too strong, and plan to continue to adjust. The goal is for all grouped content to reward having a tank and healer over going tankless or healerfree: a 5xDPS party with good gear might be able to run an easier dungeon, but they would probably be faster and have an easier time with a tank and a healer and they shouldn't be able to beat a hard dungeon at all.
(I mean, they haven't reached that goal yet, but they've been explicit that they're aware of the problem and are working to fix it, and do not intend to go live with that.)
@mithrosnomore From what I see on videos and read it appears that the meta is tending towards 5 DPS with healer companions. Where exactly would that leave the OP in its current iteration ? At least the Cleric can do DPS. Of course we can only wait and see
The devs have acknowledged that they're aware 5xDPS with healer pets and insignias is currently too strong, and plan to continue to adjust. The goal is for all grouped content to reward having a tank and healer over going tankless or healerfree: a 5xDPS party with good gear might be able to run an easier dungeon, but they would probably be faster and have an easier time with a tank and a healer and they shouldn't be able to beat a hard dungeon at all.
(I mean, they haven't reached that goal yet, but they've been explicit that they're aware of the problem and are working to fix it, and do not intend to go live with that.)
I totally agree with your statement...
I always have been wondering what the logic is behind these so called DPS (caster) only groups in Dungeons, and it appeared that main reason is given that they are farming (read AH purposes) these Dungeons for Items other classes may need to improve themselves and by excluding Tanks/Healers them from groups they are forcing these classes to get the items they need from AH.
So, (in the past, and a other MMO) We started to exclude those caster DPS classes from Dungeons they needed for Items... Suddenly the World became too small, since they (on their turn) where forced to look for Items in AH. Dev's came up with a brilliant solution... Especially in high end Dungeons they created end chest rewards with Items only suitable for their class and made them BoP (or in NW, BoP / BoA)
By combining these restrictions with extra rewards to get key classes in these groups is something to think about for the future to make NW a much better game..
I'm putting this here because it impacts the Paladin, or at least one Paragon path, but it is not specifically about the Paladin class itself.
I noticed yesterday that, when comparing the Vistani gear (which my Paladin had equipped) and the Undermountain gear (which my Paladin was gifted from Neverember), that there was an issue with the maces.
The Vistani Mace gives a 10% bonus to Oath Strike damage. The Undermountain Mace gives a 10% bonus to Shielding Strike damage.
The Vistani Mace on live is fine. Any Paladin that so desires can pick Oath Strike as an at-will power, but when this goes live that changes.
Oath Strike and Shielding Strike both become Justicar powers and the Oathkeeper (insert obligatory "please change this Paragon Path name" here) is left out. Changing the Undermountain Mace to give a bonus to an Oathkeeper at-will, or even a generic Paladin at-will, would be nice.
Some people may not care. Some people may start out with better and not care to use the weapon at all. But some people will be starting fresh and using this Undermountain (or Vistani) gear may be their best option in the short-term and, if refined, the weapon and shield may be their best choice for a long time to come.
@obsidiancran3 I am sorry that my comment irritated you so much. It is impossible,with real life commitments and limited time, to keep up to date with all of the comments that the Devs make and I apologise if I missed something on this. Perhaps if the class changes in Mod 16 had been presented to the PC community for testing( and those of us on console who can only look on from afar) in a much more polished state, with better balancing and fewer bugs it would have enabled people to make a fairer judgement of those changes.
I'm putting this here because it impacts the Paladin, or at least one Paragon path, but it is not specifically about the Paladin class itself.
I noticed yesterday that, when comparing the Vistani gear (which my Paladin had equipped) and the Undermountain gear (which my Paladin was gifted from Neverember), that there was an issue with the maces.
The Vistani Mace gives a 10% bonus to Oath Strike damage. The Undermountain Mace gives a 10% bonus to Shielding Strike damage.
The Vistani Mace on live is fine. Any Paladin that so desires can pick Oath Strike as an at-will power, but when this goes live that changes.
Oath Strike and Shielding Strike both become Justicar powers and the Oathkeeper (insert obligatory "please change this Paragon Path name" here) is left out. Changing the Undermountain Mace to give a bonus to an Oathkeeper at-will, or even a generic Paladin at-will, would be nice.
Some people may not care. Some people may start out with better and not care to use the weapon at all. But some people will be starting fresh and using this Undermountain (or Vistani) gear may be their best option in the short-term and, if refined, the weapon and shield may be their best choice for a long time to come.
Thanks.
open character page right click mace choose manage artifact powers
so... this might be a very late suggestion/request for a core mechanic to be changed... and i might be the only one / very tiny minority... and i fully realize 99.99% chances of it not happening buuuuuut...
please change the shield mechanic - replace it with a more generic, non-facing and non-active playstyle deal
personally, i feel that the fighter (as tank) is the shield, barbarian (even as tank) is the weapon, so let the paladin be the armor
more detailed reasoning:
your studios' other titles allow one to play (if we choose) in a static, mostly stationary format or be more carefree, if we like without severe penalties in combat, regardless of enemy mechanics. Of course, if we choose to be that way, we get hurt more but you give us options to mitigate that by letting us emphasize defense / healing at the cost of damage, etc. key point the choice is there, movement and facing is not the core mechanic but seems to be the case for Neverwinter
my husband and i use the paladin as our main class because
a) i can be carefree and play as a heal focused tank and screw up a lot as i am prone to.
i do this because i'm not a big gamer so my timings are always off... plus i love hopping around in combat
b) my husband doesn't have to move/face enemies all the time because he has made his paladin into a ranged tank, of all things. he sets up a combat area and pulls enemies from far off with his auras and whatever ranged options he has, he focuses mainly on mitigation, ridiculous threat and positioning the enemy
note: positioning the enemy, not moving himself
he does this because he prefers a more passive playstyle and he can be absurdly innovative AND he has a busted up arm, so he has mobility issues with his hand/fingers and cannot constantly turn to face enemies AND move AND have shield up, blah blah, basically too many actions at once too frequently are a no go... he doesn't even use at-wills much
we don't play any of the latest/endgame dungeons (obviously) because that requires a lot more coordination and precision than we can realistically ever manage
this shield mechanic is why we don't like the Fighter if it is possible please change this mechanic; especially when normal/trash mobs are involved.. i can agree with facing being important with bosses though
if it cannot be changed, allow a class-change option down the line
otherwise... and please don't read this as a threat, but this is something that will keep me from playing because this core mechanic will see him struggle... and i know he won't complain one bit but i absolutely do NOT want to see him struggling just because i want us to game together on Neverwinter too
Sorry but if the m16 stays in such state for me its an end even after this patch OP is USELES TOTALY USELES after few hour on previev i can say two things survivalibility for me is none (sorry but only one way to survive bigger group of mobs is staying with shield on and waiting for companion to deal with them). DMG are you HAMSTER kidding me? Critical Hit! Your Oath Strike deals 1613 (1453) Radiant Damage to Elite Guard. no it is imposibble i have done something wrong? NO! After some changes Your Oath Strike deals 710 Radiant Damage to Elite Guard. at the same moment my companion Your joji deals 39140 (34947) Physical Damage to Elite Guard with Hayase. i have almost 20k ilv i cant survive nothing if ther state of this HAMSTER stays at the begining of mod 16 im done with this game after four years of playing and have much fun of it. Previev drives me frustrated and mad about what you have done to my class. You have taken everything what was good and oustanding in OP gameplay amazing survivability, buffs, selfsustained DMG and you give us piece of smelly usles s.... My OP is primary and i wont do any other class. Right now you are showing me where the doors are ok i understand it and probably i will leave this game for good... So i will have fun with my pala until m16 and then ill change game for good. Literaly you s....s
Comments
At-Wills: still not worthwhile. that's pretty much the end of this one. if you have more than 1 mob on you you are better off just sticking with block for divinity gain/smite/bane/tw. I know you don't like to hear it but that's what as a player I actually find myself doing. there just isn't any benefit to the at-wills to make them worth using except as an afterthought on a single mob. if that mob heals they aren't even worth using then.
Feats: unless you choose to use the specific things they buff they are literally useless. I use 2 of them and even then its like meh why not. seems ridiculous as a core class feature that unless you pick very specific encounters/dailies that your feats would do nothing.
Divinity regen is far too low out of combat. sitting around waiting on it to regen before a fight is, how show I phrase this, not fun. it also leads to the above just block all the time playstyle to gain divinity. basically the whole divinity thing needs a look at. I am not saying its bad... it's just not good (hopefully yet!)
Once again, this is all from solo levelling game play, I haven't hit 80 or grouped up at this point. However, I have found situations where my pet has acquired aggro and if theres no divinity to burn im not getting it back. it's a design flaw catch-22. you are out of divinity and lost aggro, to get aggro back you need divinity, but you can not gain divinity unless you have aggro. like I said, mechanic needs some re-thinking.
> Am I the only one who wants the Op to have a dps path?
You aren't the only one. Me too. But looks like the devs want to make us support slaves that can't damage by their own. I personnaly would be happy to sacrifice a few tanking and healing abilities for damage
There are a few DPS/DPS classes, but most classes have two different roles.
Clerics are fully capable of dealing damage in the PnP game, so why wouldn't they be a heal/DPS class? Are you suggesting that they should have been heal/heal?
As far as Paladins getting a DPS path, well, yes, I think that a lot of people would have liked that, but Paladins were set-up to fill any role and that goes against the direction the game is taking. They could have made them a heal/DPS or a tank DPS, but a heal/tank would give them a unique role combination and provide a third option for both of those in-demand roles.
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@asterdahl you are doing great work with the communication, and it's appreciated even if what you say isn't always what everyone wants to hear. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Started playing around with an Oathkeeper .. Let me get this out of the way up front: That is not a good paragon path name. Search Oathkeepers.
Warder (level 5) and Keeper (Level 2) were two of the old "level titles" for Paladins back in AD&D, as was Justicar (level 8), and it seems like they might be good options for the healer paragon path.
Felt like I was doing better than when I was using a Justicar. No damage de-buff, and so while damage wasn't supposed to be my specialty I could certainly dish it out better, and I could still block if I needed to, with heals covering up for whatever defense buffs I may have lost.
As a solo player the need to keep aggro just isn't there. In fact, if my companion can steal aggro that opens an opponent up to combat advantage.
The tank path just didn't feel as capable as the healer path in those early efforts in Undermountain.
My Oathkeeper (again, bad name, please change) has Bane and Smite on their action bar. Whenever I can not use those powers their divinity cost appears in the slot.
For Bane it is 270. For Smite it is 198.
l have not noticed this before and am wondering if it is something in settings or if it supposed to show at all.
> Took my Pally (tank) and my Warlock through the intro after respec'ing them. Both had healer companions. My Pally, whos HP normally never went into the red was bleeding HP as I could not keep my Templar's Wrath up and the healer was not keeping up.
>
>
> Templar's wrath is a very different spell than it was pre Module 16. It's mostly for keeping threat in AoE situations, I would try adjusting what powers you are using as a paladin and see if that changes things. I haven't had a lot of trouble soloing as a paladin.
>
> That being said, warlock is a bit too powerful right now, so it doesn't surprise me that things felt very easy as a soulweaver. We'll be making further adjustments.
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> ROTFLMAO.... Ah... the problem is I would never take this "tank" to tank anything! I'm sorry but this pally version is garbage. JMHO. I mean this is my main and I now HATE playing it. There is just nothing I like about this new class update.
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> Please try playing with your powers a bit more before deciding that Paladin is a worthless tank. I've been playing paladin as tank in a number of internal playtests in various endgame dungeons and it is a very capable tank. Please try to provide specific feedback if you're having trouble.
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> Took my pally out to Chult to do some solo'ing. Now this is content where you get mobbed and hit pretty hard. I was still surviving but at points my health was down to 30%, and that is with a healer companion. Typically I run with a striker to help me add some DPS and combat advantage because the OP is so weak. So now not only am I on the verge of dying but combat is dragged out even longer for a class that it was already painfully slow to solo with.
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> Part of protection is being able to eliminate foes who are doing damage. Does not matter if they are at 100% health or 1%, they hit you with the same amount of damage till you kill them.
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> And as others have mentioned, I can't generate divinity to keep anything going. I get a hit or two in with smite because its about the only thing a pally has to damage with. And then I cannot erect the Divine Pallisade to fight behind. Unlike the old GF, when I block with shift, I am not hitting anything. And because mobs are all hitting at different times, when my shield is down I get hit.
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> Changes to the powers...
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> Templar's Wrath got nerfs with no temp HP. You added threat... which does ZERO for me in Solo which is 95% of my play time.
> Relentless Avenger got MEGA nerfed by removing mob damage and knock back which stunned, and AP refill which allow more use of Divine Judgement. For a pally, the daily is simply how it is able to dish out any damage in solo and makes it playable, not overpowered. And being able to knock mobs back gives us breathing room to setup our encounter powers. And the healer does not even get access to this to help out the party and clear mobs
> The tank path has no access to Circle of Power with previously adding protection and increased damage for the pally and party. In fact the healer gets it and it boost Divinity recharge which, again, the tank does not have access to
> Absolution - I mean at this point I think you guys are just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with us. You took a power that could perma-temp add 50% HPs not only on ourselves but if we took the time and effort, allow us to add this to our party and companions. Now it adds 20% resist... for 8 sec... only on me?????? I mean talk about MEGA NERF! Your timing for clicking on it and it actually being useful would almost need to be perfect every single time... which is not much with the recharge nerf
> Bane - now you've changed this as some sorta area target damage thing???? I'm freaking tanking over here! Just lowering my shield piles damage on me, I've not no time to be targeting stuff. Who asked for ranged powers? You know what a pally range power was, Relentless Avenger to get my a%$ in melee. And for a healer pally, bane was used for allies to buff them while dealing out healing to make a heal pally more useful. Now its some sorta crappy Templar's Wrath?
> And just to cap this off, putting some of the pally's encounter powers behind divinity is garbage. I am just watching a tool icon never come back on during combat. Its like just removing an encounter power from my choices.
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> Changes to class features...
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> Another MEGA NERF is taking away Aura of Wisdom. It was super useful for you and your party. Its not just about DPS, its about diversity of actions during combat instead of *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, block, *at-will*
> I can't see anyone who is running a Pally not taking Composure, you might as will just make it a built in item. Divinity recharge is so pathetic and weak even with this active. Is it actually working? So basically the pally only really has one feature slot to fill. You may disagree with that statement... you would be wrong.
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> Changes to feats...
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> 8 out of 10 of these are directly tied to a power that you may or may not even want to use or an effect that you may or may not care about. This is god alwfully restrictive
> Pallys are slow. Only the GF was just as slow but they had Into the Fray. To counter this we had Swift Flash and Radiant Champion now both gone. I mean we are suppose to hit the boss first to argo!!!! We are going to be left behind!
> I really don't care that Aura Gifts (sharing power) has been removed but that is a HUGE!!!!! change in the gear and enchants and companions and mounts and bonus sets, etc and so on that OP builds worked around. I cannot understate how you are completely TRASHING just about every piece of gear an OP worked on.
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> Changes to mechanics...
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> I have posted this before, making a shield part of our HP makes no logical freak'ing sense! Are slabs of our fat hanging on them or something? In the real world a shied either blocks or it doesn't. If any HP was involved it would be for the integrity of the physical shield itself and at 0 it would be destroyed and need to be replaced. And don't suggest that magic has something to do with it, that is just a BS answer.
> Divine Pallisade, if you actually have any divinity to raise it, creates some stationary cone shield... for reasons. I mean you have bosses jumping everywhere, red areas appearing all over the place, as a tank you are tying to stay in the face of the boss so your DPS class can move to the side or back, etc. Players and foes are moving EVERYWHERE! And just standing behind a static shield IS BORING!!!! I mean its like fighting the Civil War where you stand there and shoot one another in a line. That is not how combat works. This power is almost useless. And who am I protecting behind it? My DPS should be on the other side of the foe. I have no idea where my ranged classes are, I assume they are kiting and are in no way stationary
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> I will post my general feedback in that thread but for the pally, I have taken the time to go through and detail everything I can think of. One of the things I think you are missing is WHY a player plays a certain class. An OP is not flashy, they are not fast, they are not mopping up the floor with foes, etc. They are slow moving tanks. My daughter is a perfect example of why someone plays a OP... she plow through and not stress about her HP even if it takes her 2x as long. That is just an individual play style. GWF are attracted to that class for mostly different reasons. My 23 yo daughter stood behind me and watched me play my pally on preview which is what she plays and she simply said "I'm not coming back to play that mess of a class".
Agree 100% with this! Especially the useless class features no one will slot, since Aura of Courage and Wisdom are gone. Also, with Radiant Champion and Swift Flash gone, Movement gone, how are we supposed to lead the pack to hit enemies first? And how functional is Divine Palisade actually? Very true about combat position, how are dps supposed to be protected by this when they're behind/on the side of the boss?
> @mithrosnomore From what I see on videos and read it appears that the meta is tending towards 5 DPS with healer companions. Where exactly would that leave the OP in its current iteration ? At least the Cleric can do DPS. Of course we can only wait and see
It leaves us with waiting for the mod to be finished instead of assuming the current state of the game will go live.
It’s really not that hard, the classes are not even finalised for the devs to start really adjusting the content.
Seriously...aaarrrggghh
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I'm not complaining about other things, but only about the cure that disappeared.
Great disappointment of the Neverwinter team, ruined the game, I will end up going back to World of Warcraft (after 10 years I played and dropped to play Neverwinter)
Dev's should not go into these kind of hidden requests, they finally opened their eyes and brought back NW to its core (as it should be)..
Dev's must get the classes done before they jump (hope not) into that endless downwards spiral of complains and adjustments.
Personally I am content with their choices of character roles (Path)
Need to edit my first post on this, though, where I said it wasn't divinity cost.
(I mean, they haven't reached that goal yet, but they've been explicit that they're aware of the problem and are working to fix it, and do not intend to go live with that.)
I always have been wondering what the logic is behind these so called DPS (caster) only groups in Dungeons, and it appeared that main reason is given that they are farming (read AH purposes) these Dungeons for Items other classes may need to improve themselves and by excluding Tanks/Healers them from groups they are forcing these classes to get the items they need from AH.
So, (in the past, and a other MMO) We started to exclude those caster DPS classes from Dungeons they needed for Items...
Suddenly the World became too small, since they (on their turn) where forced to look for Items in AH.
Dev's came up with a brilliant solution... Especially in high end Dungeons they created end chest rewards with Items only suitable for their class and made them BoP (or in NW, BoP / BoA)
By combining these restrictions with extra rewards to get key classes in these groups is something to think about for the future to make NW a much better game..
My two cents.
I noticed yesterday that, when comparing the Vistani gear (which my Paladin had equipped) and the Undermountain gear (which my Paladin was gifted from Neverember), that there was an issue with the maces.
The Vistani Mace gives a 10% bonus to Oath Strike damage.
The Undermountain Mace gives a 10% bonus to Shielding Strike damage.
The Vistani Mace on live is fine. Any Paladin that so desires can pick Oath Strike as an at-will power, but when this goes live that changes.
Oath Strike and Shielding Strike both become Justicar powers and the Oathkeeper (insert obligatory "please change this Paragon Path name" here) is left out.
Changing the Undermountain Mace to give a bonus to an Oathkeeper at-will, or even a generic Paladin at-will, would be nice.
Some people may not care. Some people may start out with better and not care to use the weapon at all. But some people will be starting fresh and using this Undermountain (or Vistani) gear may be their best option in the short-term and, if refined, the weapon and shield may be their best choice for a long time to come.
Thanks.
right click mace
choose manage artifact powers
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
I'm none too keen on having a character sharing a moniker with anything to do with Jaime HAMSTER Lannister.
please change the shield mechanic - replace it with a more generic, non-facing and non-active playstyle deal
personally, i feel that the fighter (as tank) is the shield, barbarian (even as tank) is the weapon, so let the paladin be the armor
more detailed reasoning:
your studios' other titles allow one to play (if we choose) in a static, mostly stationary format or be more carefree, if we like without severe penalties in combat, regardless of enemy mechanics. Of course, if we choose to be that way, we get hurt more but you give us options to mitigate that by letting us emphasize defense / healing at the cost of damage, etc. key point the choice is there, movement and facing is not the core mechanic but seems to be the case for Neverwinter
my husband and i use the paladin as our main class because
a) i can be carefree and play as a heal focused tank and screw up a lot as i am prone to.
i do this because i'm not a big gamer so my timings are always off... plus i love hopping around in combat
b) my husband doesn't have to move/face enemies all the time because he has made his paladin into a ranged tank, of all things. he sets up a combat area and pulls enemies from far off with his auras and whatever ranged options he has, he focuses mainly on mitigation, ridiculous threat and positioning the enemy
note: positioning the enemy, not moving himself
he does this because he prefers a more passive playstyle and he can be absurdly innovative AND he has a busted up arm, so he has mobility issues with his hand/fingers and cannot constantly turn to face enemies AND move AND have shield up, blah blah, basically too many actions at once too frequently are a no go... he doesn't even use at-wills much
we don't play any of the latest/endgame dungeons (obviously) because that requires a lot more coordination and precision than we can realistically ever manage
this shield mechanic is why we don't like the Fighter
if it is possible please change this mechanic; especially when normal/trash mobs are involved.. i can agree with facing being important with bosses though
if it cannot be changed, allow a class-change option down the line
otherwise... and please don't read this as a threat, but this is something that will keep me from playing
because this core mechanic will see him struggle... and i know he won't complain one bit
but i absolutely do NOT want to see him struggling just because i want us to game together on Neverwinter too
Previev drives me frustrated and mad about what you have done to my class. You have taken everything what was good and oustanding in OP gameplay amazing survivability, buffs, selfsustained DMG and you give us piece of smelly usles s....
My OP is primary and i wont do any other class.
Right now you are showing me where the doors are ok i understand it and probably i will leave this game for good...
So i will have fun with my pala until m16 and then ill change game for good.
Literaly you s....s
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac