Let Oran and Jim Darkmagic hire Rhix to handle challenge weeklies or newer tasks.
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Here's what happened: Game launches with the foundry. Some players abuse the foundry. Incentives to play the foundry are reduces to combat exploits. Fewer people play the foundry. Rinse and repeat several times. Foundry not part of the core game experience. Developers (who DO love the foundry) measure player participation, which is low. Developers decide where to allocate resources. Foundry doesn't measure up. Foundry is removed.
There were opportunities along the way to handle the issues differently. In terms of integrating the foundry into the core experience, I have long advocated allowing select (as in quality, non-exploitative) authors to create content that ties into specific modules and allows an alternative path to earn, say, 10%-20% of the campaign's currency through alternative routes. Others made solid suggestions, too.
I'm sure there were reasons then, as there are reasons now, for not investing in the foundry, the full scope of which players will never be privy to. Is the foundry important to Neverwinter? I think it could be, if it received the love and attention to make it a core part of the game experience rather than an add-on. If you check my signature, you'll see one prominent member of the D&D universe who agrees.
i do love foundry, i have found plenty of good adventures, and i often found shady that exploit for xp or placing more treasure chests than it was suppose to be 1 chest in the end, i never got that imp companion, gave up since dev nerfed years ago. i dont like foundry get abused. it lose the funess and entertainment when playing foundry. too many flaws.
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @tripsofthrymr said: > Here's what happened: Game launches with the foundry. Some players abuse the foundry. Incentives to play the foundry are reduces to combat exploits. Fewer people play the foundry. Rinse and repeat several times. Foundry not part of the core game experience. Developers (who DO love the foundry) measure player participation, which is low. Developers decide where to allocate resources. Foundry doesn't measure up. Foundry is removed.
I did a countdown until the "the players were to blame" company defense was vomitted out. "This is why you can't have nice things." B.S. I was there for all of those steps. You conveniently skipped over all the broken promises, neglected updates, ignored player recommendations to avoid exploiting. Must I copy-paste a few dozen Foundry promises that were not kept over the past 5 years? Nah. It'll just get censored.
kk. Sure. "The Players caused it."
They already killed our pet dog. No need to rub it in with "it was actually YOUR fault."
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
3
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
I did a countdown until the "the players were to blame" company defense was vomitted out.
I'm not the company. My comment is not a defense. My first paragraph sums up what happened. The next two paragraphs spell out that the company had opportunities to make it work. My closing sentence points to the fact that none other than R.A. Salvatore says the foundry is important to the game.
You know I’ve seen many negative changes since this game was released including the removal of the gateway and all the nerfs that took place along the way. I feared though that one day the foundry would be disable and that would be it. It finally happened. Cryptic crippled the game to the point where there’s only grinding left to do. PvP is gone, gateway gone, foundry gone, mw 1 quests glitched for months which renders professions nearly useless (with the exception of rp and gold farming). In other words all there is to do is grind for ad and gear so you can run the same old dungeons over and over.
I’ve spent 4 years now working on a Thieves Guild questline that featured new towns, killable npcs and interactive objects and features. I pushed the foundry to its limits. All for nothing. It will never see the light of day. Thanks I guess.
3
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Here's what happened: Game launches with the foundry. Some players abuse the foundry. Incentives to play the foundry are reduces to combat exploits. Fewer people play the foundry. Rinse and repeat several times. Foundry not part of the core game experience. Developers (who DO love the foundry) measure player participation, which is low. Developers decide where to allocate resources. Foundry doesn't measure up. Foundry is removed.
There were opportunities along the way to handle the issues differently. In terms of integrating the foundry into the core experience, I have long advocated allowing select (as in quality, non-exploitative) authors to create content that ties into specific modules and allows an alternative path to earn, say, 10%-20% of the campaign's currency through alternative routes. Others made solid suggestions, too.
I'm sure there were reasons then, as there are reasons now, for not investing in the foundry, the full scope of which players will never be privy to. Is the foundry important to Neverwinter? I think it could be, if it received the love and attention to make it a core part of the game experience rather than an add-on. If you check my signature, you'll see one prominent member of the D&D universe who agrees.
The problem is that Cryptic didn't learn any of the lessons that came from the foundry equivalent in the first of their games (although I'm not sure if it was added there after they sold it), Architect Entertainment in CoH of which the dev formerly known as Commander Ander here, Dr. Aeon there was a major part. I suspect him leaving was a major part of the issue.
The exploiting should have been expected and CoH got round it by using a completely different reward structure for AE to normal missions. I used to use the foundry as an alternative to the same boring missions for levelling (I have a load of characters), till the rewards were nerfed, now I just use XP tomes.
The foundry was a wonderful resource, I didn't write missions, but I sure did play them when the reward was adequate. They relieved the boredom of running the same old stuff.
I myself enjoy the foundry...it gives me "other" missions to do that give a change from the cruddy rinse/repeat to nearly all the end game content. You take this away...and like me most of the others will prob take thier money elsewhere.
Which is bad for the game no matter how you look at it.
Here's what happened: Game launches with the foundry. Some players abuse the foundry. Incentives to play the foundry are reduces to combat exploits. Fewer people play the foundry. Rinse and repeat several times. Foundry not part of the core game experience. Developers (who DO love the foundry) measure player participation, which is low. Developers decide where to allocate resources. Foundry doesn't measure up. Foundry is removed.
There were opportunities along the way to handle the issues differently. In terms of integrating the foundry into the core experience, I have long advocated allowing select (as in quality, non-exploitative) authors to create content that ties into specific modules and allows an alternative path to earn, say, 10%-20% of the campaign's currency through alternative routes. Others made solid suggestions, too.
I'm sure there were reasons then, as there are reasons now, for not investing in the foundry, the full scope of which players will never be privy to. Is the foundry important to Neverwinter? I think it could be, if it received the love and attention to make it a core part of the game experience rather than an add-on. If you check my signature, you'll see one prominent member of the D&D universe who agrees.
I actually think that this is a great summary. Lots of chances missed on the way. But he is right that fewer people used it as it got less support etc. I think the key takeaway is - by making it part of the core experience it would make for a better game. Just imagine - a foundry that added the missing rotation of dailies for the current mod. I love that idea. I know a lot of people (most of the whales in my guild) that have been put off by the current state of the game and are waiting to see what comes next but are playing a minimum. The mechanics changes will keep us all busy for a few months but after that you have the same problem - where does entertaining content come from? It is not hard to tie in the foundry into the reward system without allowing it to be exploited the way it was.
@tripsofthrymr I disagree, I was part of the alpha testing and when I reported Foundry bugs, I got told, "We are not testing the Foundry we are alpha testing Ebon Downs, please report bugs about the area we are currently testing.". Alpha testing ended with the Foundry buggy as a bait shop. Anyone who can read the wiki can clearly see bugs going back to 2013. Foundry Authors worked on both STO and NW with broken tools to make content. Exploits were few and far between but, my good friend and Foundry Author, Alex Prat went through and reported those who exploited. No exploits were removed.
After Mod 6 we lost our Foundry hour and AD Rewards because bots were using the Foundry to make AD. While at the same time bots were flying through the dungeon ques to no end making AD. No attempt to stop to stop the bots elsewhere. The Foundry was a gimmick used by this company to lure people who desire to spin a good tale. Now that it is gone, I expect I will be here less often. Many of the authors who are my friends, spend money on the game, some of you call them whales, I can tell you they professionals with large incomes. People like comic book artists, 3D model designers, postal workers, politicians, doctors, lawyers, database engineers, and a least one author who likes her nom de plume. There will be a hole here in April, a void, I am not predicting it will upset the game at all, but it will never be filled.
I just finished running the Conduit of Time campaign (the final chapter was only just released). The amount of effort that must have gone into it is astonishing. It's probably the most epic Foundry story I've run. It's packed with lore and famous people of Faerûn. It's a long campaign, but I strongly urge people to see it before the Foundry goes down.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
As I've said before. If they liked the Foundry they would have put resources into it. They didn't.
But they didn't want to take on the heat of closing it down either. So they kept it. Made less and less people use it by making the rewards for playing them worthless. They weren't even close to as rewarding as the shortest simplest quests that they made.
They never included it in the code updates that were made to the game. Starving the Foundry to death as it also became more and more outdated. Now they could (and now will) shut it down with much less heat than they would have gotten if they killed it when they initially wanted to. Which was years ago when they made the decision that they didn't like it.
As for blaming the players, it's the easy route to go. And if there's anything we know that they are good at, it's taking the easy route. Just look at all the long lived bugs, exploits, and their history of removing content that they broke rather than fixing it. Even when they tried to bring some of the removed content back like the Tales of Old event, they broke it too. They will never fix that.
Just as I'm sure that Champions is hanging on its last breath before it is cancelled.
So...should we expect there to be no feedback from developers to everything said in this thread? After all, they posted on TWITCH! Whatever the hell that is.
THIS is your community forum. Talk to us here. Justify this decision, in the light of all the feedback presented HERE.
Much love (G)
2
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @gethund said: > So...should we expect there to be no feedback from developers to everything said in this thread? After all, they posted on TWITCH!
Highly unlikely. They are allowing this as a "vent thread" to let people blow off steam. This is just damage control.
They know that gamer outrage has a short lifespan. "Let the sheep rage a bit then they'll get distracted by something shiny in Mod16 and forget about Foundry."
Exact same thing happened with the Gateway, remember? They allowed a few rage threads, responded to none of it, then waited for things to cool down.
Hell, we had an entire Foundry Feedback dedicated section of the Forum(s) for 5 years. Hundreds of posts with constructive feedback.
Skim through it yourself. Almost none of it was acted on. Just lip service and broken promises.
Zero chance anything we say here will change their plans. Foundry is gone.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Yeah. I'm not as defeatist as that. If they want to say that, then they should say that HERE, in the forum THEY established for such discussions, not HAMSTER off to any fly-by-night 'chat' service that will pay them to populate it.
It REALLY isn't asking much.
Also, gamer outrage might indeed be short-lived. Gamer resentment is much less so, and gamer commitment to not paying any more money to a company that treats them in this way can last for quite a while, I'd hazard.
They owe us a proper response in the forum that they established for such purposes. If they don't get it, they need to understand that many, many people will no longer pay them money. And I very much doubt that what they are offering will persuade people previously unrelated to this game to show up and start splashing the cash.
It's a matter of damage limitation vis-a-vis taking a hard line on pissing off the current community.
Anyone with an ounce of business sense would realize that communication is by far the best option. And not on Twitch, ICQ, MSN or hamstering myspace.
Gamer rage may be short-lived, but if there's one thing I've learned from working customer service over the years, it's this:
It's much easier to make a customer happy to keep them, than to gain a customer back after you've lost them.
These raging gamers will never be monetizing the company again, and I'm among them. Hitting them in the pocketbook is the only thing we can do if they wont' have the balls to actually address us in this forum.
Good to see you're all still discussing this debacle. The thread on the STO forums is a bit larger, now on page 25, over 700 replies and 14,000 views. If you guys want to pop over to the STO forums and add a Neverwinter perspective that'd be great, keep the heat on. Here is the thread:
It is very normal that games have ever falling incomes as the years goes by and new games with better graphics and better tech and more customer attention are launched. The total market is only so big, so new games will cannibalize the old.
With falling incomes go less developers so less ability to handle problems. Something gotta yield. For Neverwinter the losses so far are Gateway, Foundry and the complex combat system.
Eventually there will be no more updates, and then game shutdown will follow a few years later.
But really.. I am surprised at how many old games out there are still alive. Even first-generation games like EQ1 and UO are still kicking.
seem that all they did, take, take take, and take away that we all cares about. they dont want to fix foundery, look like they add bugs as excuse to make us quitting or look so terrible that they saying it is pulling out. they are already looking so bad and humiliated, refuse to take responsibility. no wonder it still going for almost 6 years and we still not has any housing for players. guild halls or workshop dont count.
let ban 3rd party chat sites like twitch, tweet or other sites that isnt arc/nwo home page, they belong HERE! not other sites where they feel safe from angry players.
For what it's worth, I've released Blood Magic, the sequel to Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers. It concludes the main story arc that Snatchers began. I've put an enormous amount of work into it. I hope you all get a chance to enjoy them before the Foundry goes away for good.
Just remember, for every hundred or so redcaps that you slaughter, there's also a Squip...
Having caught up a little on this, my suggestion was that they figure out a way to keep the best of the best foundry missions preserved, perhaps incorporated as updates to the main game later.
Now that I see foundry was holding back development in the rest of the game it makes more sense to me. Perhaps the feature will have a comeback sometime in the future. I really liked many of the foundry missions I did, so I hope that is the case. At the same time being new to the game I am a bit sad that I will never see most of the content people made. It seems community developed content is a thing that is synonymous with Neverwinter. I always enjoy playing through other's ideas and dreams.
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
The foundry is what makes this game dnd
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
1
banzaikittenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 220Arc User
the only reason i didnt leaved NW yet was the foundry, they messed up by removing the craft system. ok, the new system was abused (hehe) with some masterworks, but ok, that was a reason i stayed ,a nice gold make system than they patched it, but the patetic demands after the 1st big upgrade was a no go, and for new players a big F**** with removal of foundry the best time in the games dies. Who didnt love to play secret agent 47, !or playing tirred of being a hero ! ,hey, we all took that road ! i even inject some stuff (qoutes that is) of them in my own foundrys
Comments
Recruitment: Neverwinter Online (spotlight)(wiki) - Star Trek Online Federation - Star Trek Online Klingon - Star Trek Online Romulan - Champions Online
Guild FAQs: Neverwinter FAQ - Star Trek FAQ - Champions FAQ ..........Facebook: Mattachine Guild
There were opportunities along the way to handle the issues differently. In terms of integrating the foundry into the core experience, I have long advocated allowing select (as in quality, non-exploitative) authors to create content that ties into specific modules and allows an alternative path to earn, say, 10%-20% of the campaign's currency through alternative routes. Others made solid suggestions, too.
I'm sure there were reasons then, as there are reasons now, for not investing in the foundry, the full scope of which players will never be privy to. Is the foundry important to Neverwinter? I think it could be, if it received the love and attention to make it a core part of the game experience rather than an add-on. If you check my signature, you'll see one prominent member of the D&D universe who agrees.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
too many flaws.
> Here's what happened: Game launches with the foundry. Some players abuse the foundry. Incentives to play the foundry are reduces to combat exploits. Fewer people play the foundry. Rinse and repeat several times. Foundry not part of the core game experience. Developers (who DO love the foundry) measure player participation, which is low. Developers decide where to allocate resources. Foundry doesn't measure up. Foundry is removed.
I did a countdown until the "the players were to blame" company defense was vomitted out.
"This is why you can't have nice things."
B.S.
I was there for all of those steps. You conveniently skipped over all the broken promises, neglected updates, ignored player recommendations to avoid exploiting.
Must I copy-paste a few dozen Foundry promises that were not kept over the past 5 years?
Nah. It'll just get censored.
kk. Sure.
"The Players caused it."
They already killed our pet dog. No need to rub it in with "it was actually YOUR fault."
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I’ve spent 4 years now working on a Thieves Guild questline that featured new towns, killable npcs and interactive objects and features. I pushed the foundry to its limits. All for nothing. It will never see the light of day. Thanks I guess.
The exploiting should have been expected and CoH got round it by using a completely different reward structure for AE to normal missions. I used to use the foundry as an alternative to the same boring missions for levelling (I have a load of characters), till the rewards were nerfed, now I just use XP tomes.
The foundry was a wonderful resource, I didn't write missions, but I sure did play them when the reward was adequate. They relieved the boredom of running the same old stuff.
Which is bad for the game no matter how you look at it.
I think the key takeaway is - by making it part of the core experience it would make for a better game. Just imagine - a foundry that added the missing rotation of dailies for the current mod. I love that idea.
I know a lot of people (most of the whales in my guild) that have been put off by the current state of the game and are waiting to see what comes next but are playing a minimum. The mechanics changes will keep us all busy for a few months but after that you have the same problem - where does entertaining content come from? It is not hard to tie in the foundry into the reward system without allowing it to be exploited the way it was.
After Mod 6 we lost our Foundry hour and AD Rewards because bots were using the Foundry to make AD. While at the same time bots were flying through the dungeon ques to no end making AD. No attempt to stop to stop the bots elsewhere. The Foundry was a gimmick used by this company to lure people who desire to spin a good tale. Now that it is gone, I expect I will be here less often. Many of the authors who are my friends, spend money on the game, some of you call them whales, I can tell you they professionals with large incomes. People like comic book artists, 3D model designers, postal workers, politicians, doctors, lawyers, database engineers, and a least one author who likes her nom de plume. There will be a hole here in April, a void, I am not predicting it will upset the game at all, but it will never be filled.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
But they didn't want to take on the heat of closing it down either. So they kept it. Made less and less people use it by making the rewards for playing them worthless. They weren't even close to as rewarding as the shortest simplest quests that they made.
They never included it in the code updates that were made to the game. Starving the Foundry to death as it also became more and more outdated. Now they could (and now will) shut it down with much less heat than they would have gotten if they killed it when they initially wanted to. Which was years ago when they made the decision that they didn't like it.
As for blaming the players, it's the easy route to go. And if there's anything we know that they are good at, it's taking the easy route. Just look at all the long lived bugs, exploits, and their history of removing content that they broke rather than fixing it. Even when they tried to bring some of the removed content back like the Tales of Old event, they broke it too. They will never fix that.
Just as I'm sure that Champions is hanging on its last breath before it is cancelled.
Recruitment: Neverwinter Online (spotlight)(wiki) - Star Trek Online Federation - Star Trek Online Klingon - Star Trek Online Romulan - Champions Online
Guild FAQs: Neverwinter FAQ - Star Trek FAQ - Champions FAQ ..........Facebook: Mattachine Guild
THIS is your community forum. Talk to us here. Justify this decision, in the light of all the feedback presented HERE.
Much love (G)
> So...should we expect there to be no feedback from developers to everything said in this thread? After all, they posted on TWITCH!
Highly unlikely.
They are allowing this as a "vent thread" to let people blow off steam. This is just damage control.
They know that gamer outrage has a short lifespan. "Let the sheep rage a bit then they'll get distracted by something shiny in Mod16 and forget about Foundry."
Exact same thing happened with the Gateway, remember?
They allowed a few rage threads, responded to none of it, then waited for things to cool down.
Hell, we had an entire Foundry Feedback dedicated section of the Forum(s) for 5 years.
Hundreds of posts with constructive feedback.
Skim through it yourself.
Almost none of it was acted on.
Just lip service and broken promises.
Zero chance anything we say here will change their plans. Foundry is gone.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
It REALLY isn't asking much.
Also, gamer outrage might indeed be short-lived. Gamer resentment is much less so, and gamer commitment to not paying any more money to a company that treats them in this way can last for quite a while, I'd hazard.
They owe us a proper response in the forum that they established for such purposes. If they don't get it, they need to understand that many, many people will no longer pay them money. And I very much doubt that what they are offering will persuade people previously unrelated to this game to show up and start splashing the cash.
It's a matter of damage limitation vis-a-vis taking a hard line on pissing off the current community.
Anyone with an ounce of business sense would realize that communication is by far the best option. And not on Twitch, ICQ, MSN or hamstering myspace.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It's much easier to make a customer happy to keep them, than to gain a customer back after you've lost them.
These raging gamers will never be monetizing the company again, and I'm among them. Hitting them in the pocketbook is the only thing we can do if they wont' have the balls to actually address us in this forum.
Not. Another. Dime.
Good to see you're all still discussing this debacle. The thread on the STO forums is a bit larger, now on page 25, over 700 replies and 14,000 views. If you guys want to pop over to the STO forums and add a Neverwinter perspective that'd be great, keep the heat on. Here is the thread:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1247522/foundry-sunset-april-11th-2019
SRS COMMAND *** SRS Academy *** SRS Guardians *** House of SRS *** SRS Lore Group *** 111th Fleet *** Task Force 74 ***
Shadow Galactica Corps *** Setec Astronomy *** Arctic Defenders *** Ferengi Trade Federation *** The Star Trekkers
With falling incomes go less developers so less ability to handle problems. Something gotta yield. For Neverwinter the losses so far are Gateway, Foundry and the complex combat system.
Eventually there will be no more updates, and then game shutdown will follow a few years later.
But really.. I am surprised at how many old games out there are still alive. Even first-generation games like EQ1 and UO are still kicking.
no wonder it still going for almost 6 years and we still not has any housing for players. guild halls or workshop dont count.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Just remember, for every hundred or so redcaps that you slaughter, there's also a Squip...
@terramak @nitocris83
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Now that I see foundry was holding back development in the rest of the game it makes more sense to me. Perhaps the feature will have a comeback sometime in the future. I really liked many of the foundry missions I did, so I hope that is the case. At the same time being new to the game I am a bit sad that I will never see most of the content people made. It seems community developed content is a thing that is synonymous with Neverwinter. I always enjoy playing through other's ideas and dreams.
ok, the new system was abused (hehe) with some masterworks, but ok, that was a reason i stayed ,a nice gold make system
than they patched it, but the patetic demands after the 1st big upgrade was a no go, and for new players a big F****
with removal of foundry the best time in the games dies.
Who didnt love to play secret agent 47, !or playing tirred of being a hero ! ,hey, we all took that road !
i even inject some stuff (qoutes that is) of them in my own foundrys