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Recovery & Lifesteal removal a bad idea?

mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
edited February 2019 in Player Feedback (PC)
I just don't know how classes are going to be affected? So perhaps sharing this insight might change the developer thought process? Excuse me, but did all you developers ever take class disadvantages into consideration? So I'm slightly concerned and knowing everyone else is. The way it was described by blog is stacking lifesteal and recovery, when technically that's not the case for all classes and all classes need that slight advantage anyways. However, some classes need to stack lifesteal or recovery, when it's tough match. Stacking power and critical strike more and need that slight recovery and lifesteal against harder foes or enemies. Yeah I almost die, depending on scenario with recovery and lifesteal just a bit, but most importantly helps the player have the advantage to defeat strong enemies or foes. Taking it more way makes the impossible. I hope I'm followed by this discussion. Taking away stats that a class needs might be a huge problem! Yeah I have lifesteal from boons, but technically taking away might be difficult, when I have slight lifesteal already with gear stats and I'm fighting against harder damage resistance, when it's not an aoe fest; I'm going to get hit by other enemies. It's still a tough battle, but even with the slightest bit or stack helps defeat any foe to make the possible for victory. Skill cooldown, when I have the slightest recovery added by stat with gear, even with feats advantage to help with cooldowns and still few secs in-between to use encounters with the help of that recovery just enough to make the class usuable. See where I'm going with this? All classes need the slight amount or stack, depending on scenario of how the class is set.

Perfect example, clerics need stack of recovery to heal.

Trickster rogues need lifesteal to survive because of low hit points.

I feel there is a lost of balance.
Post edited by mwk on
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Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,107 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Well, it makes it harder to solo. You will need a healer. Either a companion or a 'healer'.
    All the timing will be changed. Our muscle memory will need to be adjusted.
    We will need to re-learn our class to play the new way. New set up. New skill. New rotation.
    We will all go back to primary school. I need to re-learn 6 classes. I am glad I did not spend time to learn the remaining 2 during incentive event. We will be slaughtered like mod 6 in the beginning. But, we always can figure out what to do eventually.

    The good news is this will be a new game.
    The bad news is this will be a new game.
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  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    All classes need the slight amount or stack, depending on scenario or how class is set. Taking that away will make the class unusable. Just because developers have the reason of taking away, "Oh the massive healing from lifesteal and at-will encounter cooldowns with recovery ", is not an acceptable reason. Well, we still need a bit of recovery and lifesteal! Some classes might need stack or just a bit. So there is a huge problem! Even a little bit helps any class! Everyone plays differently, so it's forcing players more to cheat by exploits! So that's where developers go wrong! I despise players that do cheat, when I'm trying to adjust without cheating. Yet, this game isn't as bad as the last game I played. Still, I don't know the future and personally I don't know how I'm going to be affected to change something? I might be fine as compared to a lot because of feat choice? However, again it seems like a bad idea.


    My arguement is why take away something that is part of the game mechanics since the beginning for a reason to help a class because everyone plays differently?!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • venetrix2#1417 venetrix2 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    As a TR main, this worries me. I would have been happy with a cap on lifesteal, since I agree it can be OP if you level it high enough - if you're not one-shotted, you're immortal. But removing it altogether will make the TR unviable as a class in group content. Now DCs can play in the DPS role, why would anyone want to run content with a squishy DPS with no support options who has to keep dodging out of battle because they're too squishy to take a hit?

    Of course, there's potential for other changes to rebalance this, but it'll hinge heavily on what the power tree for TR ends up being. I've invested a lot of time and effort into my TR, and the thought of all that being for nothing is just... really demoralising. I'm not opposed to change, but I could really do with hearing some good news for rogues, because so far we haven't really had any.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Hopefully they'll boost the heals given by the heal comps to offset but I suspect it wont make much of a difference in the end. We'll just have to wait and see.
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  • ordinaryplayer#2642 ordinaryplayer Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Yup big gulp here. Classes are going to need serious self healing options to survive the current game.
    The removal of the Lifesteal and Recovery ratings are the two most significant. Lifesteal was problematic in that it invalidated most sources of healing and created a situation where a player’s health bar was typically in one of two states: full, or dead.
    @Devs. Sorry not sorry, its not lifesteal that's causing the dead/not dead state, its the ridiculous spike damage that has been put in the game over the past few mods. life steal is the only thing keeping me in the non-dead state

    Guess we wait and see what they come up with?
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,101 Arc User
    When I started back in mod 2, I didn't stack life-steal or recovery. I'm don't remember if stacking them was a thing back then. But I survived. The devs want the game to go in a new direction. We will see.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    Sooo --- Lifedrinker and Bloodtheft --- I have Transcendent versions of both enchants...will we get compensated for the loss of them? Will they be auto-converted into something else?

    Please do tell - inquiring minds would like to know.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Honestly I'm 50/50 on the changes, because I have no idea of the outcome removing lifesteal and recovery? If it's complain fest? Well that's PWE and Cryptic's problem. However what most are stating, it seems like a bad mistake! I think lifesteal from boons are staying though? Well, at least of what I read.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    My scenario with 2K recovery from my weapons and + 543recovery 510item level gold ring with 40% stat from runestone from companion (bonding rank 9). I hit stealth with shady preparations feat in effect. My lashing blade goes to 18 to15 seconds. Bad idea cryptic! I tested it as soon as the skill pop up during cooldown and hit that skill, then stealth. Not everyone uses lurkers assault and there is slight seconds in-between still, even when I can use stealth more. I'm not going to roll and roll using twlight adept (I found that it wasn't really effective much anyways), just so that can use stealth for shady preparations cooldown again. It's proven we need lifesteal and recovery! Don't ruin this game, because everyone plays differently! Now I'm a bit worried. A few seconds in-between, but making matters worse is just not logical, when from the community perspective we have a different view. Every class needs a bit of lifesteal and recovery, because it's game mechanics to survive and do well. We aren't stacking a ridiculous amount though, but enough to help the class. The removal is the most huge mistake and will cause more uproar from the playerbase, which is kinda now! 50/50 was before, but now 30/70 (30% uneasy feeling on the outcomes) on my views on this change now. So surprise us or well the community isn't going to like the change. It's construction criticism, which we are allowed to do here, because the forum is set like this on purpose.

    Since everyone plays differently, we need it! Understand? I might have least frustration, but not everyone plays the same like I do. No matter how we play those lifesteal and recovery stats are needed!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    We don't have nearly enough information yet to draw conclusions. I'm waiting to see how base power CDs have been adjusted, if at all, and what other sources of CD reduction might be available. Simply too many variables we don't know about yet.
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  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    > @namelesshero347 said:
    > When I started back in mod 2, I didn't stack life-steal or recovery. I'm don't remember if stacking them was a thing back then. But I survived. The devs want the game to go in a new direction. We will see.

    Yeah but you had some. That's the point!

    Sorry for 3x times posting, but it seems like majority of the community is not liking the removal of lifesteal and recovery. Also I have my arguments of disapproval like everyone else that doesn't want those stats removed. I'm not posting for awhile, because I want to see more perspectives from the community. So far majority is concerned with the change.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    mwk said:

    So far majority is concerned with the change.

    The majority of the community also seems to enjoy getting whipped into a frenzy for any reason whatsoever. It's silly to be concerned when only the people who participated in the testing phase have any idea at all what these changes mean in practice, and they aren't talking yet because of the NDA.

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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    mwk said:

    So far majority is concerned with the change.

    The majority of the community also seems to enjoy getting whipped into a frenzy for any reason whatsoever. It's silly to be concerned when only the people who participated in the testing phase have any idea at all what these changes mean in practice, and they aren't talking yet because of the NDA.

    Silly to be concerned.... How many things have the devs messed up?
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    vorphied said:

    mwk said:

    So far majority is concerned with the change.

    The majority of the community also seems to enjoy getting whipped into a frenzy for any reason whatsoever. It's silly to be concerned when only the people who participated in the testing phase have any idea at all what these changes mean in practice, and they aren't talking yet because of the NDA.

    Silly to be concerned.... How many things have the devs messed up?
    Not really the point. People might as well wait for evidence that the sky is falling before they run off screaming. It's not like going crazy right now is going to change the course of whatever is shortly coming our way, so the best option for the moment is to chill.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • tholthertholther Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User
    As far as I see the game is going to be very hard to play without lifesteal and recovery. Especially the solo content is going to be a pain in the butt. Dungeons will have to relay on clerics, who btw are difficult to find, and good ones even more. The solo part (campaigns) worries me more. Especially without lifesteal is going to be really very tough and frustrating. Very often you are attacked by 10 or 20 high level enemies. Wthout lifesteal and recovery you are going to die very very fast and very often and that is going to frustrate many people. You play for fun and not to suffer.
    You will have to get top armor set with top defense and top movement and top everything to keep you alive and that costs a LOT of AD that the majority do not have.
    I dont know if the devs looked only at the players +16k with top gear and forgot that the great majority do not. That or they just want players to spend more money on the game buying things to survive.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    I've come to the conclusion that I guess we have to accept this change, but if the removal of lifesteal and recovery becomes a problem for the classes, then we have every right to really complain. It's just that I don't see any logic with this change. My question is, did the developers actually test something or actually think about all the classes? I tested in a real scenario and I feel taking those helpful stats will just make the class unusable by removing them, especially when encounter cooldowns are crazy enough like 14-17 seconds, and without a bit of recovery, then the game is lost. We aren't stacking lots of lifesteal and recovery, but just enough to play well and survive. Lots of players play classes differently, so there is less cooldowns feats that help depending on what class path you take; I think for everyone and not just myself. Some classes need lifesteal and yes those instant heal items, but no one knows how much you have left during a battle; run out in battle and die. Well, if this new expansion really messes up by removing lifesteal and recovery, since every class needs some, then I will complain for real. Just putting it out there only notifies developers to over think themselves. I just don't know what to expect with this change? Sometimes change is good and sometimes it's a mistake. Time will tell. Just seems like a bad idea mistake.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,155 Arc User
    No. We don't have to accept this change. This is a dev team that was not capable of doing something as simple as overhauling professions in mod 15, and still has not fixed it after three months. They are not doing any of this because they understand this game or have even played it much. They aren't doing this for any good reason, in fact.

    What we need to do is refuse to accept this change. They are about to destroy Neverwinter by rewriting it with a dev team that just is not up to the task. This is going to be worse than mod 6.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I'll be glad to see lifesteal go. That one never made any sense to me on anything but the warlock. The whole concept is silly. I'm going to hit you in the head with my big sword to heal myself! Rah!
  • rtilton#6263 rtilton Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Are the Dev’s purposefully trying to kill this game? At least 50% of the older players LEFT when the Professions were whipped out, destroying thousands of hours and Astral Diamonds investment. Salvage was also canned giving us a pitiful 150 RP instead. Now they propose changing our Life steal? Are we going to get some HAMSTER worth 1/10th of the original strength again?
    The DEV’s who approved the last patch, and this one, doesn’t seem to give a hoot about the dedicated players. They seem to be hoping new people will replace ones they are driving away with their stupid reworks. We will have to see if this patch is as badly received as the last one was. If so say good- bye to more long time players.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    > @frogwalloper#6494 said:
    > I'll be glad to see lifesteal go. That one never made any sense to me on anything but the warlock. The whole concept is silly. I'm going to hit you in the head with my big sword to heal myself! Rah!

    But the warlock....see you contradicted yourself. Lol.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Vampiric Touch, Soul Cage
    No contradiction.
  • jabetokjabetok Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4 Arc User
    Maybe the devs will replace lifesteal with regeneration. I think it is logical. Healers can speed it up. Tanks will buy dps some time. Not sure with recovery though. My main is a cw and my recovery is only 4K. Disintegrate cooldown is 4 sec because i use spell twisting and arcane presence. Maybe the devs will add those feat version to all classes. I am keeping a simril augment companion and plan on using it when my crit reached to 95% (i am a fan of augment pets and currently using an owlbear cub) and i noticed it has 400 something regeneration stats at green. It will be pretty much useful in long term, i guess ;)
  • luffyhaki123luffyhaki123 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.
    Post edited by luffyhaki123 on
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    I've posted my proposal on the first page here.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
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  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    We don't have nearly enough information yet to draw conclusions. I'm waiting to see how base power CDs have been adjusted, if at all, and what other sources of CD reduction might be available. Simply too many variables we don't know about yet.

    No no no. It's never too soon to start freaking out. :)
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    I can see why lifesteal needs removed, but recovery just doesn't make sense. Not all classes are equal. Some are more dependent on their encounters or dailies than other classes.

    Are they going rebalance encounters and dailies on all classes to make up for this change? I don't see it working out that way.
  • auron#6793 auron Member Posts: 341 Arc User

    life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.

    potions are great except they never actualy drop anymore.
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