Recovery & Lifesteal removal a bad idea?

feanor70118

auron#6793 said:

luffyhaki123 said:

life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.

potions are great except they never actualy drop anymore.

And they're underpowered. And they have a cooldown that is much too long. They're useless.

grogthemagnif

What they REALLY need to do is Boost the IL of Paladins and Clerics because they most often play above IL anyway.

grogthemagnif

Once they do that Then the 18kIL Paladins and Clerics should end up with close to 21k IL.

majorcharvenak

Buy Stones of Health and scrolls of life off the AH folks. Get em while the prices are still reasonable.

grogthemagnif

Then, all they need to do is use the Thousands of IL to allow entry into each level 7k IL to enter levels 1-3, 8k to enter levels 4-5, 9k to enter levels 6-7, 10k to enter levels 8-9. . . 18-19k to enter level 15, 20-21k to enter level 16 and 22kIL to enter levels 22-23.

By the time the players are at levels 8-9 they should have 70+level equipment and be able to progress faster.

grogthemagnif

I said enter, not necessarily finish.

lordwinos

plasticbat said:

Well, it makes it harder to solo. You will need a healer. Either a companion or a 'healer'.
All the timing will be changed. Our muscle memory will need to be adjusted.
We will need to re-learn our class to play the new way. New set up. New skill. New rotation.
We will all go back to primary school. I need to re-learn 6 classes. I am glad I did not spend time to learn the remaining 2 during incentive event. We will be slaughtered like mod 6 in the beginning. But, we always can figure out what to do eventually.

The good news is this will be a new game.
The bad news is this will be a new game.

Since when has Neverwinter been SOLO friendly? with this new idea, i'm almost on the verge of never playing neverwinter and saving my cash for something that is MORE SOLO FRIENDLY without all the dinking around changing things Mostly for the WORSE

edge2500

My thoughts: We probably need to wait and see how they balance the game with these changes before we get too alarmed. Due to life steal and recovery, they had to make the enemies hit way harder than needed and they had to make our skills weaker, respectively. Perhaps potions may be made a bit stronger (but not so much that it negates the need of a healer or tank, mind you). Perhaps enemies won't need to rely on cheap one-shot attacks, and will instead have more interesting behaviors. They are removing two stats that shouldn't have been so powerful (or in the game, if we're being honest) in the first place. Having said that, I do hope they remember that a lot of people play solo or duo and balance the over world with that in mind.

ghoulz66

edge2500 said:

My thoughts: We probably need to wait and see how they balance the game with these changes before we get too alarmed. Due to life steal and recovery, they had to make the enemies hit way harder than needed and they had to make our skills weaker, respectively. Perhaps potions may be made a bit stronger (but not so much that it negates the need of a healer or tank, mind you). Perhaps enemies won't need to rely on cheap one-shot attacks, and will instead have more interesting behaviors. They are removing two stats that shouldn't have been so powerful (or in the game, if we're being honest) in the first place. Having said that, I do hope they remember that a lot of people play solo or duo and balance the over world with that in mind.

Sounds stupid regardless. Now you need to pile up crit insanely high to crit half of the time? Are they buffing overall damage to compensate for that? I don't see crit being popular for all dps now so how are they going to handle that.

nunya

luffyhaki123 said:

life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.

@luffyhaki123 Except that regen is also being removed. As others have mentioned, potions are underpowered and have an 18 second cooldown. 35k from a potion is too little. I'll grant that we may have to look at incoming healing bonus or something like that in order to boost the efficacy of potions. That's certainly a possibility. I wonder what we would have to get it up to in order for an 18 second cooldown to not be about 3x or 4x too long.

majorcharvenak

nunya#5309 said:

luffyhaki123 said:

life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.

@luffyhaki123 Except that regen is also being removed. As others have mentioned, potions are underpowered and have an 18 second cooldown. 35k from a potion is too little. I'll grant that we may have to look at incoming healing bonus or something like that in order to boost the efficacy of potions. That's certainly a possibility. I wonder what we would have to get it up to in order for an 18 second cooldown to not be about 3x or 4x too long.

Regen is gone to? I though they were replacing it with a standard, out of combat, regen amount. WRT potions, those need a
big boost as well as the heal comps. Hopefully they'll reduce the cooldown to something like half of its current. Otherwise, soloing content is going to be really "interesting." My advice (if you're not a healer class) - stock up on potions, stones of health and scrolls of life/mass life while you can. Might want to pick up Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue if you haven't already.

mwk

You know I've been doing some thinking. It's that extra stat at the top of description details of the gear. Like 15% more damage to enemies using a certain skill or what not. Well, what if like 10% cooldowns on all encounter skills as a roll. What if Cryptic is adding lifesteal and recovery as rolls for gear, instead of enchantments and/or placed just to be there normally? Just a thought. Still I don't like the idea removal of lifesteal and recovery. The cube of augmentation or whatever it is called changes the roll. We all need a bit, but it won't be gone forever. Perhaps that's what is being done? An afterthought.

pitmonster

hitchslapped said:

honestly, i think removing lifesteal is a terrible idea. healers don't always want to play as healers, and when they do, they can be *very* selective about who they bother to heal. ask any tr how often they have to rely on lifesteal to stay alive because healers aren't healing them, even when they're not trying to play as dps instead of healing.

the fact that they've combined this with making *every class except paladins* be able to queue as dps is only going to encouraging the behaviour of classes that could be healing, deciding to dps instead. this is going to make matters worse, not better.

When playing a OP healer I always run Bond of Virtue and get right in melee and just spam cure wounds so hopefully getting everyone.

mwk

I'm stating this here too from other another forum.

I'm really confused by no feat trees and other things. Developers are making me rethink everything and I'm typically a type of person that doesn't like huge changes by something I'm not used to. If my eyes are correct? The total wipe of used to gameplay, which is daily powers, at-wills, encounters, and in with the new? I mean I'm really confused, skeptical, and don't know what to expect? So call me paranoid. Yes I'm feeling paranoid. Urggh having to rethink everything! That's what I don't like! Or is this just feat design with 70-80 only?

plasticbat

auron#6793 said:

luffyhaki123 said:

life steal being removed is great, if u cant see that then idk what to do tell you. healing wont be useless and people act like every mmorpg out there without life steal havent done this before where u cant solo anything. There is a thing called potions and regen. people are overacting like always.

potions are great except they never actualy drop anymore.

You can still buy from vendor (using gold), AH (using AD) or make it yourself (if you can).

plasticbat

lordwinos said:

plasticbat said:

Well, it makes it harder to solo. You will need a healer. Either a companion or a 'healer'.
All the timing will be changed. Our muscle memory will need to be adjusted.
We will need to re-learn our class to play the new way. New set up. New skill. New rotation.
We will all go back to primary school. I need to re-learn 6 classes. I am glad I did not spend time to learn the remaining 2 during incentive event. We will be slaughtered like mod 6 in the beginning. But, we always can figure out what to do eventually.

The good news is this will be a new game.
The bad news is this will be a new game.

Since when has Neverwinter been SOLO friendly? with this new idea, i'm almost on the verge of never playing neverwinter and saving my cash for something that is MORE SOLO FRIENDLY without all the dinking around changing things Mostly for the WORSE

For me, it is pretty solo friendly. More and more so may be until mod 16. I understand people does not agree. So far, I solo all non group content in the game for 6 characters and they did not need to drink any health potion doing so. My toon are not BiS. I have not actively upgraded them for about 3 to 4 mods now. In their best gear, they are between 14K to 15.8K item level. I usually play them with their XP loadout which is between 12K to 14K. My 'best' character is still wearing eLOL set. They may be considered to be slow killing stuff comparing with the BiS folks but they can solo non-group content.

By the way, I am not saying the game needs to be more solo friendly or less solo friendly. I just stated the fact that whatever I learned probably will be irrelevant in the future. I am not saying this is good or bad neither.

divectore

luffyhaki123 said:

here is a thing called potions and regen.

You mean, regen that only works out of combat? and potions that heal you 13% of your hp and have long cooldowns while a entry lvl mob in a dungeon like cn deals 110% of your hp per hit?.
Overall i think devs are doing it wrong this time, this is not what you should be doing with a game, thats like raising the maximum lvl once you reach it, so that you can never reach it.
Dungeons like Tong and Codg gave me hope, because no matter how much defense or hp you have, if you don't have experience and skill, you'll fall and die.
But now you are basically capping everything so that you cannot get more powerful, which defies the essence of what a rol-progressive game is.
Caps are cancer, should always be diminishing returns, And the stats vs anti-stats are just a cheap lazy way to keep the difficutly up. thats like a president releasing a virus into the air in order to create jobs for doctors.

hercules125

Several points I'd like to make:

1. I personally do not want to be made totally dependent on another person to stay alive. The view that the "healer" is absolutely needed in every dungeon group needs to be purged from MMOs.

2. I want soloability in ordinary content to still be viable. If I have to search out a healer to do my dailies or weeklies, I'll be looking for another game. This hardcore mode for even regular content was tried in Wildstar, and it didn't end very well.

3. When playing tanks, I grew very tired of the view in other MMOs that the tank was just a big bag of hps that needed to be kept filled by the healer. I prefer self reliance. The best time I ever had tanking had to be in City of Heroes.

demonmonger

I feel like neverwinter woke me up from a good dream and said surprise buck text! ..

This new mod is going to hurt until it doesn't


But oh well what can we do... it's written in stone....

Whi knows with the new class titles we may have more possibilities in the future

hustin1

Those of us who lived through the launch of Mod 6 have a very real fear that those days might be returning. When it launched, if your class couldn't self-heal, you *had* to have either a healer companion or buddy up with someone who could heal you. Every enemy hit like a truck, and 18 seconds to drink a substandard potion (up from 12) was an eternity. It was so bad that the devs had to adjust enemy damage down -- TWICE. They wanted everyone to play paladins, so they kicked survivability in the gut and cranked the difficulty of the game up to 11. Me? I refused to create an OP out of protest. Only when Mod 8 introduced some relief (see below) did I decide they had learned their lesson. Now, I wonder if they learned anything at all.

Mod 6 shouldn't have been called Elemental Evil. It should have been called Hubris.

There's a reason why seemingly the entire player population spent the entirety of Mod 8 killing the giant crab in Drowned Shore. Those drowned weapons were absolutely necessary to stay alive. There was no such thing as Dusk footwear then: those weapons were it if you wanted to do your dailies without being required to have a healer companion. Perhaps some of us have forgotten the rolling spawn times across half a dozen instances that we maintained in zone chat, and every time the person keeping the times logged he would pass it on to someone else to continue. It went on for weeks.

Mod 8 should have been called Deadliest Catch instead of Underdark. EVERYONE was hunting crabs throughout.

This is what we fear, because we have seen it before. Life in NWO was hell until Mod 9.

wylonus

it had long history of nerfages, once they give us, and then used other hand to take away, a lot of take aways that seem doesnt stop.
My GF can take Baphomet within 3 mins, then once that mod 16 released, and i am concern about long drawn out fight that takes 10-15 mins if i solo.

devs doesnt listen and they are creating another exodus of players getting upset and angry when the game went other way in serious wrong direction, this doesnt help players to have enjoyment, as the rule for all dungeon masters, they are suppose to create game that is should be fun to play, playing slot machine isnt!

fighting tough mobs with our toothpicks?. Mod 6 reminded us and it really hurts! most of us dont forget and hated it the most.

no one knows how bad this mod 16 is going to hurt, giving us 10 new levels? so what! we went thru hell during mod 6 with our gears altered and nearly helpless, getting one shotted, and fighting for survival.

i will be watching mod 16 when that come and see how bad is that nerf hurting. if the fight take too long while potions are already useless with long cooldown, if i see cornering players into buying scrolls of life and stones of health, that is considered money grab.

also, i am already bored of those CTA event instead of looking forward, sick of getting same reward loots over and over when there isnt a variety of items.

thefiresidecat

hustin1 said:

Those of us who lived through the launch of Mod 6 have a very real fear that those days might be returning. When it launched, if your class couldn't self-heal, you *had* to have either a healer companion or buddy up with someone who could heal you. Every enemy hit like a truck, and 18 seconds to drink a substandard potion (up from 12) was an eternity. It was so bad that the devs had to adjust enemy damage down -- TWICE. They wanted everyone to play paladins, so they kicked survivability in the gut and cranked the difficulty of the game up to 11. Me? I refused to create an OP out of protest. Only when Mod 8 introduced some relief (see below) did I decide they had learned their lesson. Now, I wonder if they learned anything at all.

Mod 6 shouldn't have been called Elemental Evil. It should have been called Hubris.

There's a reason why seemingly the entire player population spent the entirety of Mod 8 killing the giant crab in Drowned Shore. Those drowned weapons were absolutely necessary to stay alive. There was no such thing as Dusk footwear then: those weapons were it if you wanted to do your dailies without being required to have a healer companion. Perhaps some of us have forgotten the rolling spawn times across half a dozen instances that we maintained in zone chat, and every time the person keeping the times logged he would pass it on to someone else to continue. It went on for weeks.

Mod 8 should have been called Deadliest Catch instead of Underdark. EVERYONE was hunting crabs throughout.

This is what we fear, because we have seen it before. Life in NWO was hell until Mod 9.

i remember

thefabricant

hustin1 said:

Those of us who lived through the launch of Mod 6 have a very real fear that those days might be returning. When it launched, if your class couldn't self-heal, you *had* to have either a healer companion or buddy up with someone who could heal you. Every enemy hit like a truck, and 18 seconds to drink a substandard potion (up from 12) was an eternity. It was so bad that the devs had to adjust enemy damage down -- TWICE. They wanted everyone to play paladins, so they kicked survivability in the gut and cranked the difficulty of the game up to 11. Me? I refused to create an OP out of protest. Only when Mod 8 introduced some relief (see below) did I decide they had learned their lesson. Now, I wonder if they learned anything at all.

Mod 6 shouldn't have been called Elemental Evil. It should have been called Hubris.

There's a reason why seemingly the entire player population spent the entirety of Mod 8 killing the giant crab in Drowned Shore. Those drowned weapons were absolutely necessary to stay alive. There was no such thing as Dusk footwear then: those weapons were it if you wanted to do your dailies without being required to have a healer companion. Perhaps some of us have forgotten the rolling spawn times across half a dozen instances that we maintained in zone chat, and every time the person keeping the times logged he would pass it on to someone else to continue. It went on for weeks.

Mod 8 should have been called Deadliest Catch instead of Underdark. EVERYONE was hunting crabs throughout.

This is what we fear, because we have seen it before. Life in NWO was hell until Mod 9.

Module 5 was worse then module 6. When all my friends quit from boredom since everyone could solo everything and nothing held any challenge. Module 6 was an attempt to get the game back on track that was done poorly.

majorcharvenak

thefiresidecat said:

hustin1 said:

Those of us who lived through the launch of Mod 6 have a very real fear that those days might be returning. When it launched, if your class couldn't self-heal, you *had* to have either a healer companion or buddy up with someone who could heal you. Every enemy hit like a truck, and 18 seconds to drink a substandard potion (up from 12) was an eternity. It was so bad that the devs had to adjust enemy damage down -- TWICE. They wanted everyone to play paladins, so they kicked survivability in the gut and cranked the difficulty of the game up to 11. Me? I refused to create an OP out of protest. Only when Mod 8 introduced some relief (see below) did I decide they had learned their lesson. Now, I wonder if they learned anything at all.

Mod 6 shouldn't have been called Elemental Evil. It should have been called Hubris.

There's a reason why seemingly the entire player population spent the entirety of Mod 8 killing the giant crab in Drowned Shore. Those drowned weapons were absolutely necessary to stay alive. There was no such thing as Dusk footwear then: those weapons were it if you wanted to do your dailies without being required to have a healer companion. Perhaps some of us have forgotten the rolling spawn times across half a dozen instances that we maintained in zone chat, and every time the person keeping the times logged he would pass it on to someone else to continue. It went on for weeks.

Mod 8 should have been called Deadliest Catch instead of Underdark. EVERYONE was hunting crabs throughout.

This is what we fear, because we have seen it before. Life in NWO was hell until Mod 9.

i remember

Same here. At this point though I think I'll just keep playing to see what Undermountain is like and prepare myself for the mod 6 shaft v. 2.0. If things turn out to be fine (or at least not as bad as I fear) I'll be pleasantly surprised. Expect/prepare the worst, hope for the best.

schietindebux

Sounds like things get straight and easier, stack defensive stats in case you have bad footwork or no skill .
Dailies will be dailies again.
Hopefully insignia boni will get fixed/back in line then-> Artificer's Persuation - Recovery, Movement, Action Point Gain, and Stamina Gain 50k+ and Shepard's Devotion - deflect/defense/movement at cap, depending on powerbuffs and usage of those dragon hearts! Otherwise powerbuffer will stay the dominating species 4ever.

In case I need a healer or tank companion to solo stuff I will do so and be happy about it. In case I need a defensive setup to go solo I will do so, in case I need a new build I will switch towards it and addept. Maybe companios should be easier to switch ... like Bondings stay active and don´t have to be switched every time... quality stuff to get it done in short, entering a zone with more "aggressive mobs".
In case content will be more challenging I am happy about it in most cases.
In case controlpowers will be from interest again in fruther mods I will be happy about it.
In case my GF can be a full tank, thx in advance.
Last one, in case I have more variety to build a char, due to stat chages, I accept it as a positive aspect.

blodvern

Lifesteal Keep Us Alive - Song of the DPS

(Based on an Eagles song)


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0ArO38HTE

We were standing
All alone against the world outside
Always searching
For a place to fight
Lost and lonely
Now you've taking us the way to survive
When we're dying, lifesteal keep us alive
Don't you worry
Sometimes you've just gotta let it ride
The world is changing
Right before your eyes
Now I've lost it
There's so much more emptiness inside
When we're dying, lifesteal keep us alive
I would die for you
Climb the highest mountain
Devs, there's nothing I wouldn't do
Now I've lost it
There's so much more emptiness inside
When we're dying, lifesteal keep us alive
I would die for you
Climb the highest mountain
Devs, please don't take it off from us…

adinosii

alanlesley#3698 said:

im a 15k il gwf and i could solo the shores of tuern, i install the preview server the other day and i couldnt even get passed the first creep wave, to me that is HAMSTER, all the time and effort put into the game and i couldnt even complete the easiest epic dungeon. good bye neverwinter.

A 15 K character not being able to solo content that is meant for a group sounds just about right. Now, I am perfectly fine with a skilled 18-19K character being able to solo group content, but 15K? Nah....

spidey

alanlesley#3698 said:

im a 15k il gwf and i could solo the shores of tuern, i install the preview server the other day and i couldnt even get passed the first creep wave,

Your fault. Espacially as a Barbar ( we arent GWFs anymore) eSOT is a walk in the park. Maybe you should try to avoid red circles next time?

Spidey