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Developer Blog: Stats & Mechanics

Just starting an new discussion thread for each of these MASSIVE announcements. This one is like holy s^%$

Developer Blog: Stats & Mechanics

It's not that I disagree with any of the changes. It's that these are so massive and comprehensive that I have little faith of the devs pulling these off in one mod.

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  • shadrakt2shadrakt2 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Well we can expect a LOT of things to be really broken at first, and there’ll be a lot of massive patches, but I think we’ll end up with an awesome new game in the end
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    shadrakt2 said:

    Well we can expect a LOT of things to be really broken at first, and there’ll be a lot of massive patches, but I think we’ll end up with an awesome new game in the end

    If you are below 13K item level, its mostly just change as you don't have significant investment in money and grind into gear and enchantments, etc. Past that there is going to be some winners and losers depending on where these changes land. Some stuff that people have will increase in value, while I suspect a great amount of other stuff will become almost worthless.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?
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  • valleervalleer Member Posts: 1 New User
    I am not sure if i have to start new discussion about this or not...
    I am wondering about uselles sets of armor and weapons from all compains except of Barovia and Chalt. There very nice sets with very unique effects. Some items require long way of restoring them. But it all now uselles as any blue item you get in Barovia from start is much better with stats and "item level".

    I wondering if Developers may make a patch to increase item level and stats of those items or way to "merge/move" effects of one item and stats with item level from other item. That way players will not have all same armor and weapons and will have stimulus to play and work for items. and.... Enjoy process, items and game itself!
  • smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    Spamming at-wills is such fun. NOT

    recovery and lifesteal removal
    50% forced crit cap
    combat advantage cap

    Guess they wanted to cap/remove fun too.

    Time to find a new game
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    valleer said:

    I am not sure if i have to start new discussion about this or not...

    I am wondering about uselles sets of armor and weapons from all compains except of Barovia and Chalt. There very nice sets with very unique effects. Some items require long way of restoring them. But it all now uselles as any blue item you get in Barovia from start is much better with stats and "item level".



    I wondering if Developers may make a patch to increase item level and stats of those items or way to "merge/move" effects of one item and stats with item level from other item. That way players will not have all same armor and weapons and will have stimulus to play and work for items. and.... Enjoy process, items and game itself!

    If it's anything like Mod 6, then all of your "gear" (except stuff like enchants) is now officially outdated junk. You will need to find new level 80 gear in Undermountain. Which means all the current sets and the like are probably going by the wayside (or there may be new level 80 versions of some we will need to grind for all over again).
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  • sgtpostal#4408 sgtpostal Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    all this brings up smethin else i didnt think abt at frst lol..... wen this new mod rams ur frnt door dwn an says " heEreEe i aAamMm"..... wonder wht new gear they gunna hav come out with to replace the now outdated current bis making hdps gear u can get by doing hunts....hhmmmm wonder lol
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    NDA still in effect, so I cannot really answer, but a level cap increase typically means you need new armor and such.

    Enchants and such are still useful, but changes to build may require some shifting around....You might rnd up with too much of one stat and too little of another, but selection of gear pieces might partially or fully compensate.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,800 Arc User

    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?

    By default, every single character will have to be retrain because even feats will not be the same.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    smulch said:


    Time to find a new game

    Time to sit back, relax, watch he drama, eat some popcorn and not do not panic until you get to experience the actual end result.

    It could actually be a very good change.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    valleer said:

    I am not sure if i have to start new discussion about this or not...

    I am wondering about uselles sets of armor and weapons from all compains except of Barovia and Chalt. There very nice sets with very unique effects. Some items require long way of restoring them. But it all now uselles as any blue item you get in Barovia from start is much better with stats and "item level".



    I wondering if Developers may make a patch to increase item level and stats of those items or way to "merge/move" effects of one item and stats with item level from other item. That way players will not have all same armor and weapons and will have stimulus to play and work for items. and.... Enjoy process, items and game itself!

    If it's anything like Mod 6, then all of your "gear" (except stuff like enchants) is now officially outdated junk. You will need to find new level 80 gear in Undermountain. Which means all the current sets and the like are probably going by the wayside (or there may be new level 80 versions of some we will need to grind for all over again).
    If you look at your current kit, only 16 or so items are actually 'gear'. That's the items on left and right side of the character window, and the artifacts. The rest of your kit(and probably the major investment) are enchantments, insignias, companions, boons etc. Those will not be affected by a gear change. So most of your kit will pass through the level cap increase with little to no change. Gear often is farmed/dropped and not obtained by AD, so a fairly cheap thing to replace.

    In the case of mod 16 we also get the system rebuild along with the cap increase, that is probably going to be more expensive since we could have to do a massive replacement of enchantments, insignias, companions etc. In particular enchantments are expensive stuff.
  • korpivaelluskorpivaellus Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    Removing lifesteal makes solo play much harder.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    Removing lifesteal makes solo play much harder.

    No, it just means you got to pick a healing companion. Solo'ing won't change, just the way you outfit yourself will.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    smulch said:

    Spamming at-wills is such fun. NOT

    recovery and lifesteal removal
    50% forced crit cap
    combat advantage cap

    Guess they wanted to cap/remove fun too.

    Time to find a new game

    TRs and GWFs were already spamming at wills. And in any case, what is the difference between spamming at wills or encounters? After all, you are still spamming buttons. Just because its a green power instead of red doesn't actually affect your enjoyment of the game does it???

    And how is capping certain stats removing fun? Is it "fun" to have 100% crit? Why? How is that more fun?

    This mod is not going to change the game. This IS a New Game. Post Mod 16, it will have only bare resemblence to what we are playing now.

  • agilestoagilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    NDA still in effect, so I cannot really answer, but a level cap increase typically means you need new armor and such.



    Enchants and such are still useful, but changes to build may require some shifting around....You might rnd up with too much of one stat and too little of another, but selection of gear pieces might partially or fully compensate.

    As I'm not M16 beta-tester and you're still in NDA I'll have to wait until March 1st to preview that, but one big question comes to my mind:
    The new Tales of Old event (very nice even if too grindy btw) gives us new artifact gear set belt and neck. These are something we can't get at the moment since we can have 1 fabled chapter per event. This means we will probably be in M16 already when we'll be able to get our hands on this new set.

    Now the question is will this gear be any relevant at all? Currently on live it's lvl 70 stuff with stats based on the current game. Now tomorrow M16 drop, we go to lvl 80, and all the grind for the new event artifact set magically becomes useless, and more importantly, the event itself becomes useless since the event gear is under the new lvl 80 gear?
  • Being TR main, yeah im having knee jerk reactions, play on the console and just now got to refining my black ice enchants. Just worried about my suitability now. I will probably still work on the black ice enchants, more than likely will be an alright offensive enchantment.

    I'll just have to be patient for now...
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 693 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    It's a major change in several things.

    It's not like they are dumping some stats, reworking some other stats, and leaving the rest the same.

    Your build isn't going to be outdated because of the removal of regen, lifesteal, or recovery, it's going to be outdated because they are changing the entire skill tree set-up.

    Every build is probably out of date when this hits.
    Maybe some will be able to be reproduced with little change, but I doubt that any existing build makes it through unscathed.

    My question is what happens with existing equipment, companions, enchantments, and runestones that used or boosted one of the soon-to-be missing stats?

    I suspect that the removed stats will be replaced with something else, but I would prefer an exchange system of some sort.


    Post edited by mithrosnomore on
  • yeenoghu#2009 yeenoghu Member Posts: 25 Arc User

    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?

    You usually always get a free respec each mod.

    Removing lifesteal makes solo play much harder.

    I don't remember of it being hard in the start with no guild boon. And you can always switch to defense boon or something else. If anything, like devs said, it was somethign that either saved lives or you would die before it was put to work. After a certain lvl, even without lifesteal any class can survive in the PVE regions. Dungeon-wise, it's up to the party so you wouldn't be alone. Just remember the mechanics and avoid red aoes to not get one-shotted with a powerful attack.
  • rannxeroxxrannxeroxx Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    valleer said:

    I am not sure if i have to start new discussion about this or not...

    I am wondering about uselles sets of armor and weapons from all compains except of Barovia and Chalt. There very nice sets with very unique effects. Some items require long way of restoring them. But it all now uselles as any blue item you get in Barovia from start is much better with stats and "item level".



    I wondering if Developers may make a patch to increase item level and stats of those items or way to "merge/move" effects of one item and stats with item level from other item. That way players will not have all same armor and weapons and will have stimulus to play and work for items. and.... Enjoy process, items and game itself!

    I have complained about this for a while. I assume there will now be a massive amount of "junk" gear in the 70LV similar to 60+ LV stuff. Its not just LV but item level.

    In pen and paper D&D you have classes of armor (leather, cloth, chain, etc) that affect movement, silences, etc. Certain classes can wear certain armors, more to do with interfering with their abilities. Then you have AC. Outside of that, you have up to ~+5 (not sure if they have power creeped that in later editions). Bolt on some magical abilities and that is armor in D&D.

    NW armor never made sense to me. Why cant a rouge wear ranger armor, and visa visa? Why is there specific clerical or fighter armor? And why are there all these stats like power, armor pen, HPs, etc on armor? Its all these stats bolted on that create the power creep.

    Maybe the biggest problem with NW is that it really is not story driven compared to, say, Baulder's Gate, it is task driven. Grind out these task 100x and get a reward.

    No answers, just observations.

  • shadrakt2shadrakt2 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    > @kiraskytower said:
    If it's anything like Mod 6, then all of your "gear" (except stuff like enchants) is now officially outdated junk. You will need to find new level 80 gear in Undermountain. Which means all the current sets and the like are probably going by the wayside (or there may be new level 80 versions of some we will need to grind for all over again).

    Wait, you’re complaining that we will have to grind for new gear when a new mod is released? But that almost never happens! *eyeroll*
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 348 Arc User

    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?

    Will they give us the option to turn in our rank 13/14 enchantments that they just made useless for something we can use?
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  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User

    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?

    Will they give us the option to turn in our rank 13/14 enchantments that they just made useless for something we can use?
    I think the ability to trade in enchants for a different type of the same rank would be a great thing for the players .... that way we could pick the ones we want/need for our build as opposed to discovering that our enchants how have far too much/too little of a stat we need. Maybe a vendor similar to the one they put in when they nerfed the Lostmauth set?
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  • prethenprethen Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    havlocke said:

    Removing lifesteal makes solo play much harder.

    No, it just means you got to pick a healing companion. Solo'ing won't change, just the way you outfit yourself will.
    Uh oh...I guess that means my Owl Bear Cub companion just lost a bunch of its usefulness! Oh, well...I look forward to what the new game will be like...sounds like a total overhaul.
  • silvertailsilvertail Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 97 Arc User
    >Stat Additions/Removals
    >
    >With the change to an opposing rolls system, new stats needed to be added to act as the opposing ratings. While making these >additions we also removed a few stats to improve the balance of the game.
    >
    >Main Ratings:
    >
    >Hit Points
    >Power
    >Critical Strike
    >Critical Avoidance
    >Combat Advantage Bonus
    >Awareness
    >Deflect
    >Accuracy
    >Armor Penetration
    >Defense



    I've been waiting for everyone to start asking about the stats they are putting in vs the stats they are taking out. Yes having my crit nuffed sucks however I wonder how the accuracy stat will be. Is it only going to help HR or will having a higher accuracy help my TR hit in more critical locations ( like head or neck hits vs back and chest) and thrus doing higher damage.

    Does the awareness mean that mobs will be able to find my when I'm in stealth easier or does it mean more mobs will have stealth so we will need that in order to fight them.

    Having things taken out or changed sucks however I more interested in what they are adding and how it will work into my game play since with them taking out feats my whole char has to change anyways as well as maybe my play style.
    stealth is survival skills (and not tanking skills, that is really different)
    stealth is damage
    stealth is mobility
    stealth is everything
    everything is stealth
    Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,400 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    >

    Does the awareness mean that mobs will be able to find my when I'm in stealth easier or does it mean more mobs will have stealth so we will need that in order to fight them.

    According to
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/asrqdn/math_for_new_stats/ ...

    Awareness counters enemy Combat Advantage bonus.

    It doesn't change anything about enemies finding you under Tactical Aggro Dump™

    >

    I've been waiting for everyone to start asking about the stats they are putting in vs the stats they are taking out. Yes having my crit nuffed sucks however I wonder how the accuracy stat will be. Is it only going to help HR or will having a higher accuracy help my TR hit in more critical locations ( like head or neck hits vs back and chest) and thrus doing higher damage.

    Accuracy counters Deflect.

    Otherwise, you'll get silly things like:


  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 835 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    NDA still in effect, so I cannot really answer, but a level cap increase typically means you need new armor and such.



    Enchants and such are still useful, but changes to build may require some shifting around....You might rnd up with too much of one stat and too little of another, but selection of gear pieces might partially or fully compensate.

    So what happens if the new system requires you to invest in a whole new array of artifacts, artifact gear and weapons to align with the new dynamic for a given class? That is a LOT of RP and refining stones to replace, if you had your old sets all at legendary/mythic levels.

    Even if Cryptic is more generous with the recycle value in RP of existing artifacts than in past mods (not holding my breath on that) the cost of re-refining so many new pieces to max level will be astronomical.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,365 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    My biggest concern is still the removal of lifesteal. It would mean that any companion that isn't a healer will now be useless for all solo content, and 99% of our campaign quests are done solo.

    The problem as I see it is that they are compounding the mistakes made in Mod 6 with another one.

    A little history.

    Prior to Mod 6 you could self-heal via two methods during combat: with Lifesteal and with Regen.

    Regen gave you a steady trickle. Increasing the stat increased the trickle, but it never became more than just that -- a steady trickle. It meant that if you ran into trouble in a fight and your run speed was decent, you could dodge and buy some time for the 12-second potion cooldown to expire.

    Lifesteal worked a little differently back then as well. It -- if I recall completely -- had a 100% proc chance, but it only gave you a percentage of your total HP based on your stat. Increasing the stat increased the percentage.


    What Mod 6 did, which is what we have today:

    Regen during combat was never -- ever -- overpowered, yet they chose to remove it anyway. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now.

    Lifesteal prior to Mod 6 was indeed problematic. By maximizing procs with for example a lightning enchant and boosting the stat, you could keep yourself fully healed pretty much all the time. No one needed healers. However, the cure was worse than the disease. The stat now affects your chance of a proc, and you always get fully healed when it does. The end result is the same: you are either fully healed or dead most of the time.


    What they should have done and what they should do now:

    All that was necessary was the following:

    1. Leave Mod 5 regen alone. It was never a problem. At most, put in a cap of x% of your total HP per second.

    2. Put in a similar cap to Mod 5 lifesteal that limited it to x% of your total HP per second.

    That's it -- problem solved. We told them this -- repeatedly. We told them this ad nauseam. We told them this until we were blue in the face. They didn't listen. I'm not at all confident that they'll listen now, but they darned well should.


    Now, about opposing rolls.

    An interesting mechanic that they could add, if and only if they made the proposed changes above, would be to give enemies a Lifedrain stat. It wouldn't ever drain your health, but it could act as an opposing roll to in-combat regen and lifesteal. This would allow them to manage difficulty for those two stats going forward.

    Simple.

    And, to top it all off, if they're still concerned about people not needing healers for dungeons, have those two stats work at full effectiveness only when soloing. Now that really solves the problem.

    The question is, will they listen?
    Post edited by hustin1 on
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  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    Anyone packing lots of recovery or lifesteal? Will they get a free retrain token?

    Will they give us the option to turn in our rank 13/14 enchantments that they just made useless for something we can use?
    I think the ability to trade in enchants for a different type of the same rank would be a great thing for the players .... that way we could pick the ones we want/need for our build as opposed to discovering that our enchants how have far too much/too little of a stat we need. Maybe a vendor similar to the one they put in when they nerfed the Lostmauth set?
    I played another game that did this and it was ok but all items became bound to character. If Cryptic does this it should be bound to account at least.

    I have a variety of enchantments on 3 characters. So I'm hoping that between them that I only need to change what I currently have between my characters and nothing more.
  • lldtlldt Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    hustin1 said:


    The question is, will they listen?

    Because a small minority, but very vocal group of players think they know everything, including the business and programming aspects of an MMO? Thankfully, no.

    Besides, when they do listen, no one remembers it. When they don't do something that YOU specifically ask for, it's f'ing intolerable.

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