Developer Blog: Classes Intro

pitmonster · February 2019

Starting a tread for each of these MASSIVE announcements.

Developer Blog: Classes Intro

I mean... all of this in one mod? Plus massive content! Holy s&^%

shadrakt2 · February 2019

I’m excited. People have been complaining that last time they attempted a massive overhaul with level increase (mod6) has been a disaster, and I agree. But I’m willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt this time because I’ve seen a lot of positive changes in the last year or so. And it sounds like the ARE listening, despite what the perpetual haters say. I mean we’ve been asking for all feat trees and paragon paths to be viable. We’ve been asking to bring healing back. We’ve been complaining about the era of one-shot bosses. I can’t wait to see how many things they’ll get right this time.

Only thing I regret is that I haven’t seen anything about control making a comeback, which is a bummer. But who knows, maybe that’ll still be part of the package.

johnnyreklaw · February 2019

Wizard is only a DPS class, however I Don't wonder if one of the paragrons won't be more control oriented instead of dps. Will be interesting to see.

c3rb3r3 · February 2019

lots of changes at once, it's a hit or miss. I hope devs are ready for the month of playtest, because you will see the biggest amount of feedbacks ever.

theycallmetomu · February 2019

johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
Wizard is only a DPS class, however I Don't wonder if one of the paragrons won't be more control oriented instead of dps. Will be interesting to see.

Who needs control when the best condition is "dead."

With life steal removed, I could see damage mitigation as being more important, but the fact that they removed to word "control" means that they're likely trying to make Wizard LESS control based, not more. It's a shame, because I love control conceptually, but Neverwinter has never been able to make it work.

It probably woulda worked out better if Neverwinter hadn't been an MMO, but here we are.

johnnyreklaw · February 2019

theycallmetomu said:

Who needs control when the best condition is "dead."

With life steal removed, I could see damage mitigation as being more important, but the fact that they removed to word "control" means that they're likely trying to make Wizard LESS control based, not more. It's a shame, because I love control conceptually, but Neverwinter has never been able to make it work.

It probably woulda worked out better if Neverwinter hadn't been an MMO, but here we are.

Who says it will be dead that quickly? I feel like the changes are meant to negate the fact that we can plow through most content much faster than intended. Mods are irrelevant when the next one comes out and we are destroying boss bars exponentially faster with each new mod/gear set we need.

With all these changes, it sounds like we won't be ignoring boss mechanics for a few mods. Instead, we'll actually have to work in teams and go group-by-group. The control part could very well be a means of handing larger groups of mobs. Perhaps control effects will actually happen on most dungeon mobs again, as dps will need longer than the initial effect to kill them.

I don't think we can apply ANY old game mechanics to the new mod. Dead won't be as easy, so controlling them until we get there could be quite viable.

If the DPS only classes don't have some kind of support option, they'll hit the same issue they currently have with feats: Everyone runs one path and the other is worthless. Thats exactly what they want to avoid. I think each class has the potential for some kind of control, giving them the 2 path options they want to push.

pitmonster · February 2019

johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
Wizard is only a DPS class, however I Don't wonder if one of the paragrons won't be more control oriented instead of dps. Will be interesting to see.

The concept of "control" was very 4e D&D and it basically dead. To make it useful for a player made it too powerful against high level content so they just started making everything immune. The only things being controlled or stunned in the game are the players.

mebengalsfan · February 2019

I thought the devs would remove or reduce buffing from tanks and healers. Than add a new role buffer and adjust the CW, TR, HR with the ability to buff the group but that didn't happen and so now we end up with still three roles of Tank, Healer and DPS. The devs than made tanks all similar based on what they stated, if they did this, than they took away any unique way of tanking out of the game.

The devs removed life steal to ensure healers heal; well I can tell you this; they better also remove the high damage single target hits (one shots) as well or there will be no point of having a healer if the tank goes down by a one shot.

The one thing they removed from the game that I thought was very D&D essential was AC, not sure I agree with removing Armor Class from a dungeon and dragon game. IMO, without AC you are playing just another RPG and not a D&D game.

ghoulz66 · February 2019

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I thought the devs would remove or reduce buffing from tanks and healers. Than add a new role buffer and adjust the CW, TR, HR with the ability to buff the group but that didn't happen and so now we end up with still three roles of Tank, Healer and DPS. The devs than made tanks all similar based on what they stated, if they did this, than they took away any unique way of tanking out of the game.

The devs removed life steal to ensure healers heal; well I can tell you this; they better also remove the high damage single target hits (one shots) as well or there will be no point of having a healer if the tank goes down by a one shot.

The one thing they removed from the game that I thought was very D&D essential was AC, not sure I agree with removing Armor Class from a dungeon and dragon game. IMO, without AC you are playing just another RPG and not a D&D game.

Would have been the right opportunity to introduce the bard into the game overhauling party buffs.

lowjohn · February 2019

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

The devs removed life steal to ensure healers heal; well I can tell you this; they better also remove the high damage single target hits (one shots) as well or there will be no point of having a healer if the tank goes down by a one shot.

Luckily, removing one-hits is also something they said they wanted to do in the very same post.

pitmonster · February 2019

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I thought the devs would remove or reduce buffing from tanks and healers. Than add a new role buffer and adjust the CW, TR, HR with the ability to buff the group but that didn't happen and so now we end up with still three roles of Tank, Healer and DPS. The devs than made tanks all similar based on what they stated, if they did this, than they took away any unique way of tanking out of the game.

The devs removed life steal to ensure healers heal; well I can tell you this; they better also remove the high damage single target hits (one shots) as well or there will be no point of having a healer if the tank goes down by a one shot.

The one thing they removed from the game that I thought was very D&D essential was AC, not sure I agree with removing Armor Class from a dungeon and dragon game. IMO, without AC you are playing just another RPG and not a D&D game.

For the OP, I am kinda concerned about the change to their shield from immunity to now a HP buff. This is like a HUGE nerf as everyone has a bunch of HP nowadays from gear. That shield is the primary protection from one shots and made tanking even possible.

I mean with lifesteal being removed from just about everything outside of Warlock, why would you even want to play a melee class? Since Wizards, Rangers, & Warlocks are also DPS classes, just play one of them, kite around and avoid the one shots.

malignantmind · February 2019

So I know we're most likely not gonna get it, but I'm just saying, now would be the absolute best time to release a new class.

empalas · February 2019

malignantmind#3340 said:
So I know we're most likely not gonna get it, but I'm just saying, now would be the absolute best time to release a new class.

From the standpoint of all the balancing they will be doing in future mods it would be a good time to do that.
From a work standpoint, probably not a good idea with all the other work they have to do on all of the classes.
I do think with the changes they are making it will be easier for them to add new classes and based on the stat changes balancing them should be easier. ... the key word there is should. IMO anyway

rannxeroxx · February 2019

Power Points

At this point you may be wondering how Power Points will tie into these changes.

Power points will be removed with this update. Ultimately they hinder play, especially while leveling, and put a blocker on players being able to fully experience their characters at end game. Without power points, players will have full access to their powers and feats the moment they unlock them by level and will have them available at their full potency instead of having to upgrade them before they are worth slotting.

Sooooo, what about all those powerpoints that people paid Zen (and some real money to buy Zen) for? I mean I never did it but this is not just a nerf, it completely removes something that people actually paid real money for. How are they going to square that circle? Zen refunds?

ghoulz66 · February 2019

rannxeroxx said:
Power Points

At this point you may be wondering how Power Points will tie into these changes.

Power points will be removed with this update. Ultimately they hinder play, especially while leveling, and put a blocker on players being able to fully experience their characters at end game. Without power points, players will have full access to their powers and feats the moment they unlock them by level and will have them available at their full potency instead of having to upgrade them before they are worth slotting.

Sooooo, what about all those powerpoints that people paid Zen (and some real money to buy Zen) for? I mean I never did it but this is not just a nerf, it completely removes something that people actually paid real money for. How are they going to square that circle? Zen refunds?

Doubt they care that much. They still sell SH strongbox keys, for something that's been outdated for years now.

sirkus1313 · February 2019

I will wait and see how it goes. The professions mod was a bust for me. I quit doing professions. I just hope it isn't so bad that I lose all my active long term people.

rikitaki · February 2019

I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.

ghoulz66 · February 2019

rikitaki said:
I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.

*shrugs*

What's so complicated about making tanks take less damage than the rest of the party?

Sounds like the OP tank is being nerfed to oblivion.

majorcharvenak · February 2019

ghoulz66 said:

rikitaki said:
I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.
*shrugs*

What's so complicated about making tanks take less damage than the rest of the party?

Sounds like the OP tank is being nerfed to oblivion.

This coupled with recovery being lost, I wonder how it will effect encounters that could offset this, especially if we end up with a lower overall recharge speed.

ghoulz66 · February 2019

majorcharvenak said:

ghoulz66 said:

rikitaki said:
I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.
*shrugs*

What's so complicated about making tanks take less damage than the rest of the party?

Sounds like the OP tank is being nerfed to oblivion.

This coupled with recovery being lost, I wonder how it will effect encounters that could offset this, especially if we end up with a lower overall recharge speed.

I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.

empalas · February 2019

ghoulz66 said:

I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.

Hopefully it will be an implementation where the heals are kind of like they are now just buffed a bit to compensate for the lifesteal loss. The one key thing being that to heal you will have to actually use encounters instead and use them more strategically and won't be able to contribute much to the overall damage. That would be ok. But if it just turns them into the babysitters like they are in WoW and other MMOs...well count me out of healer role then.

majorcharvenak · February 2019

ghoulz66 said:

majorcharvenak said:

ghoulz66 said:

rikitaki said:
I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.
*shrugs*

What's so complicated about making tanks take less damage than the rest of the party?

Sounds like the OP tank is being nerfed to oblivion.

This coupled with recovery being lost, I wonder how it will effect encounters that could offset this, especially if we end up with a lower overall recharge speed.
I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.

Can't we just get the Warlocks to do that now?

Seriously though, I don't want that either as usually, the heals is the next to die after the tank goes down. I really hope they add something useful to offset what they're taking away otherwise things are gonna be really dicey.

rannxeroxx · February 2019

ghoulz66 said:

I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.

And if the healer gets one shotted and dies...

majorcharvenak · February 2019

rannxeroxx said:

ghoulz66 said:

I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.
And if the healer gets one shotted and dies...

Then that's their fault.

See this oldie but goodie. :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

wintersmoke · February 2019

majorcharvenak said:

ghoulz66 said:

majorcharvenak said:

ghoulz66 said:

rikitaki said:
I still don't understand the tanky stuff. I mean: either the shield would refresh itself pretty fast, or it would not mean anything at all, would it?
And if a second hit in that example actually harms the tank and destroys the shield, the third does what? Kills? That does not sound like perspective tanking. Not to say that it would mean that one shot kills would be quite common in that case.
I am really curious how they will make this work.
*shrugs*

What's so complicated about making tanks take less damage than the rest of the party?

Sounds like the OP tank is being nerfed to oblivion.

This coupled with recovery being lost, I wonder how it will effect encounters that could offset this, especially if we end up with a lower overall recharge speed.
I really do not want to go back to the meta where the healer has to babysit everyone, including the tank.
Can't we just get the Warlocks to do that now? Seriously though, I don't want that either as usually, the heals is the next to die after the tank goes down. I really hope they add something useful to offset what they're taking away otherwise things are gonna be really dicey.

4 SW +1 Party! FTW!

greywynd · February 2019

malignantmind#3340 said:
So I know we're most likely not gonna get it, but I'm just saying, now would be the absolute best time to release a new class.

As of last October:

On new classes: “We have no plans on the books to introduce a new class. That’s not to say we haven’t discussed it, but it’s not even penciled in.”

ghoulz66 · February 2019

greywynd said:

malignantmind#3340 said:
So I know we're most likely not gonna get it, but I'm just saying, now would be the absolute best time to release a new class.
As of last October:

On new classes: “We have no plans on the books to introduce a new class. That’s not to say we haven’t discussed it, but it’s not even penciled in.”

Ok, so they want the game to be closer to DnD, but don't want to include the diverse classes that come with it.

wylonus · February 2019

Devs, are you now saying paladins can now using swords on mod 16?

kemnimtarkas · February 2019

sirkus1313 said:
I will wait and see how it goes. The professions mod was a bust for me. I quit doing professions. I just hope it isn't so bad that I lose all my active long term people.

Honestly this is my biggest concern. I can roll with the changes - my play style will adjust as needed.

But my guild is kind of low on active players - I hate to think what happens if M16 is anything like M6 (EE) was.

mentinmindmaker · February 2019

Control mechanisms is a pain to balance, so there is no surprise they have gone out of fashion.

The healing dimension has long been missing from NW, so I welcome it back. The healer classes will need to adapt to a new playstyle though.

Massive class changes like this is always a lottery, so it will be interesting to see who comes out on top wrt. desirability now. Without doubt the GWF got most to lose, they have been well ahead of everyone else for dps desirability for he last 10 or so mods.

And what will the new meta be?

feanor70118 · February 2019

This is the same dev team that was responsible for all the lazy design and (still not fixed, by the way) bugs of mod 15, and the insulting lie that +1 items in MW are working as intended for now.

This is not a record that inspires confidence. I don't think they're competent to undertake a task this size. I don't think they'll get it right at all. I don't think they're familiar with the game in any real way. I don't think they're even remotely aware of the years-long history of good player input in these forums that has gone ignored.

I think they should back off this bloated project and concentrate on bug fixes and other real player concerns for a long while.

This is shaping up to be mod 6 but somehow even worse.

Developer Blog: Classes Intro

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