i guess the only thing u can do now is to record it to see if u have any debuffs, like vicious pursuit, that's a normal feat to take for example, if the tr has dread for some reason there goes a lot of your defense aswell + extra debuff, so its kinda hard to be precise without much info. with all the stuff mentioned above i wouldn't be surprised if their effectiveness was that high
i mean shield 30-80%, becouse it depends on the spec, there were times where i had 40% from negation, 80% from shield, 65% from stats, 25% from CoP and same thing happens. as for negation it preety much is up 100% of the time. only first 1-2s of combat its not up, then its constant with all the reflecting, dots and every attack triggering it several times. P.S this TR had 1,1k armorpenetration, i simply ignore those that have 5k or more assuming that it might be armpen that shreads it. this is something i noticed almost all TR do, no matter what armorpen they hit with 60% effectiveness, if the numbers were fluctuating i wouldnt even notice that something is wrong. i might play some prot pally and run logs with 300% damageres and we will see how it goes then.
I think you are right about something happening which they do. Personally, I think TRs have been balanced quite a fair bit recently, but there is something strange happening, I agree.
I'm doing a bit of preliminary testing on the Saboteur tree and Gloaming Cut, I'm not sure if it is this tree which is causing the discrepancy in damage, or if it is Gloaming Cut.
I'll get back to you with some results.
its not the glaming cut, its the same with cloud of steel, dazing strike and impact shots.
OK, so from testing, it seems that Shadowy Opportunity adds a piercing effect to the power being used when Shadowy Opportunity is in effect. So not only does it add 50% piercing weapon damage, it also makes that power which procs it piercing.
Tested this in Preview, with a '1000 damage' Test Weapon mainhand (no off-hand), against the right-sided training dummy in Port Nyanzaru (level 73). No other items, boons or companions equipped. The only feats I had which contributed to damage were Gutterborn and Shadowy Opportunity in the Saboteur tree. STR 12 (+2% damage) and CHA 16 (+6% CA damage).
As you can see above, Base Damage without Crit or CA (Stealth) for Gloaming Cut was 2042.5. The training dummy has a damage resistance of 85%, thus effectiveness was 20% (DR cannot go above 80%), hence base effective damage 408.5.
Note the column 'Flank' represents Combat Advantage while in Stealth.
The area highlighted in red shows Gloaming Cut damage (no Crit, no CA) as 2246.7 combined with a Shadowy Opportunity proc of 480.1. This Gloaming Cut damage is still benefiting from the Gutterborn effect (+10% damage). Hence, this damage equals the Base Damage*1.1(Gutterborn) = 2042.5*1.1 = 2246.7.
When Shadowy Opportunity finishes, the Gloaming Cut damage resumes its normal damage. Note the Gloaming cut damage 561.7 is still benefitting from Gutterborn, but when Gutterborn finishes, it returns to its non-crit no-CA value of 408.5.
The ACT log above shows the same attack pattern without Shadowy Opportunity.
Description for Shadowy Opportunity is:
When you leave Stealth you gain Shadowy Opportunity for 5 seconds. Shadowy Opportunity causes your attacks to deal an additional 10/20/30/40/50% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage.
So yes, I do believe this is a bug, as Shadowy Opportunity makes each attack it procs from piercing, as well as providing the additional weapon damage.
A minor note, but Gutterborn also adds 10% Defenses Ignored, not 10% Armor Penetration - I think the tooltips should be updated to reflect this. You can see that effectivess goes up to 25% when it procs, as the DR of the training dummy gets reduced to 75%.
i mean shield 30-80%, becouse it depends on the spec, there were times where i had 40% from negation, 80% from shield, 65% from stats, 25% from CoP and same thing happens. as for negation it preety much is up 100% of the time. only first 1-2s of combat its not up, then its constant with all the reflecting, dots and every attack triggering it several times. P.S this TR had 1,1k armorpenetration, i simply ignore those that have 5k or more assuming that it might be armpen that shreads it. this is something i noticed almost all TR do, no matter what armorpen they hit with 60% effectiveness, if the numbers were fluctuating i wouldnt even notice that something is wrong. i might play some prot pally and run logs with 300% damageres and we will see how it goes then.
I think you are right about something happening which they do. Personally, I think TRs have been balanced quite a fair bit recently, but there is something strange happening, I agree.
I'm doing a bit of preliminary testing on the Saboteur tree and Gloaming Cut, I'm not sure if it is this tree which is causing the discrepancy in damage, or if it is Gloaming Cut.
I'll get back to you with some results.
its not the glaming cut, its the same with cloud of steel, dazing strike and impact shots.
OK, so from testing, it seems that Shadowy Opportunity adds a piercing effect to the power being used when Shadowy Opportunity is in effect. So not only does it add 50% piercing weapon damage, it also makes that power which procs it piercing.
Tested this in Preview, with a '1000 damage' Test Weapon mainhand (no off-hand), against the right-sided training dummy in Port Nyanzaru (level 73). No other items, boons or companions equipped. The only feats I had which contributed to damage were Gutterborn and Shadowy Opportunity in the Saboteur tree. STR 12 (+2% damage) and CHA 16 (+6% CA damage).
As you can see above, Base Damage without Crit or CA (Stealth) for Gloaming Cut was 2042.5. The training dummy has a damage resistance of 85%, thus effectiveness was 20% (DR cannot go above 80%), hence base effective damage 408.5.
Note the column 'Flank' represents Combat Advantage while in Stealth.
The area highlighted in red shows Gloaming Cut damage (no Crit, no CA) as 2246.7 combined with a Shadowy Opportunity proc of 480.1. This Gloaming Cut damage is still benefiting from the Gutterborn effect (+10% damage). Hence, this damage equals the Base Damage*1.1(Gutterborn) = 2042.5*1.1 = 2246.7.
When Shadowy Opportunity finishes, the Gloaming Cut damage resumes its normal damage. Note the Gloaming cut damage 561.7 is still benefitting from Gutterborn, but when Gutterborn finishes, it returns to its non-crit no-CA value of 408.5.
The ACT log above shows the same attack pattern without Shadowy Opportunity.
Description for Shadowy Opportunity is:
When you leave Stealth you gain Shadowy Opportunity for 5 seconds. Shadowy Opportunity causes your attacks to deal an additional 10/20/30/40/50% of your weapon damage as Piercing Damage.
So yes, I do believe this is a bug, as Shadowy Opportunity makes each attack it procs from piercing, as well as providing the additional weapon damage.
A minor note, but Gutterborn also adds 10% Defenses Ignored, not 10% Armor Penetration - I think the tooltips should be updated to reflect this. You can see that effectivess goes up to 25% when it procs, as the DR of the training dummy gets reduced to 75%.
thank you for putting time and effort to find this, when i read what shadow opportunity does, i assumed it strikes with additional hit, kinda like weapon encahntment, and since it appeared in the logs i didnt think nothing of it. so what you are saying it not only deals 50% weapon dmg hit as piercing, but also converts 50% of the dmg into piercing ?
thank you for putting time and effort to find this, when i read what shadow opportunity does, i assumed it strikes with additional hit, kinda like weapon encahntment, and since it appeared in the logs i didnt think nothing of it. so what you are saying it not only deals 50% weapon dmg hit as piercing, but also converts 50% of the dmg into piercing ?
No. It makes 100% of the Power which procs it piercing AND adds 50% piercing weapon damage as a separate entity.
You may want to check oppressive darkness passive too and see if anything is bugged, many of the TRs you have encountered recently are not sabotuers, there are several scoundrels PVPing on PC as well and we have 0 piercing damage feats. Pretty much all TRs run oppressive darkness right now and I was told recently that oppressive darkness piercing damage always crits, which may or may not be intentional, the devs stated it had been buffed in the rework patch notes but didn't mention anything about it being critical piercing damage.
I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
You may want to check oppressive darkness passive too and see if anything is bugged, many of the TRs you have encountered recently are not sabotuers, there are several scoundrels PVPing on PC as well and we have 0 piercing damage feats. Pretty much all TRs run oppressive darkness right now and I was told recently that oppressive darkness piercing damage always crits, which may or may not be intentional, the devs stated it had been buffed in the rework patch notes but didn't mention anything about it being critical piercing damage.
I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
Wow, you are correct @trygluestickz, Oppressive Darkness also makes the power it procs with 100% piercing.
Base damage of Dazing Strike is 2893.5. When I use DS in stealth it gets both CA + Crit (hence damage formula is [1+CritSev+(CA+CA[stat])] = [1+0.75+(.15+.06)] = 1.96. So 2893.5*1.96 = 5671.26.
It seems like the modifier which adds %piercing damage also modifies the proccing power as completely piercing.
With regards to Oppressive Darkness, it doesn't always cause the power it procs it to crit. Tested it with just a pet to get CA, so not in stealth, it only did 3501.2 damage (2893.5*1.21), which is equivalent to the bonus applied from CA (in my case its 21% because of my CHA being 16, +6% CA). Usually though, TRs get CA with Stealth, thus proccing Oppressive Darkness and also getting crit bonus.
@nitocris83, @terramak, @noworries#8859 can you please look into this: both Shadowy Opportunity and Oppressive darkness adding piercing effects to proccing power, when it isn't listed in the tooltips or patch notes?
You may want to check oppressive darkness passive too and see if anything is bugged, many of the TRs you have encountered recently are not sabotuers, there are several scoundrels PVPing on PC as well and we have 0 piercing damage feats. Pretty much all TRs run oppressive darkness right now and I was told recently that oppressive darkness piercing damage always crits, which may or may not be intentional, the devs stated it had been buffed in the rework patch notes but didn't mention anything about it being critical piercing damage.
I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
Wow, you are correct @trygluestickz, Oppressive Darkness also makes the power it procs with 100% piercing.
Base damage of Dazing Strike is 2893.5. When I use DS in stealth it gets both CA + Crit (hence damage formula is [1+CritSev+(CA+CA[stat])] = [1+0.75+(.15+.06)] = 1.96. So 2893.5*1.96 = 5671.26.
It seems like the modifier which adds %piercing damage also modifies the proccing power as completely piercing.
wow, thx for fining this, guess that explain why my paladin gets shreaded so hard by even undergeared TR ;p
You may want to check oppressive darkness passive too and see if anything is bugged, many of the TRs you have encountered recently are not sabotuers, there are several scoundrels PVPing on PC as well and we have 0 piercing damage feats. Pretty much all TRs run oppressive darkness right now and I was told recently that oppressive darkness piercing damage always crits, which may or may not be intentional, the devs stated it had been buffed in the rework patch notes but didn't mention anything about it being critical piercing damage.
I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
Wow, you are correct @trygluestickz, Oppressive Darkness also makes the power it procs with 100% piercing.
Base damage of Dazing Strike is 2893.5. When I use DS in stealth it gets both CA + Crit (hence damage formula is [1+CritSev+(CA+CA[stat])] = [1+0.75+(.15+.06)] = 1.96. So 2893.5*1.96 = 5671.26.
It seems like the modifier which adds %piercing damage also modifies the proccing power as completely piercing.
wow, thx for fining this, guess that explain why my paladin gets shreaded so hard by even undergeared TR ;p
Yep, so if they have high power, high recovery for a fast encounter rotation, go Saboteur to use Shadowy Opportunity and slot Oppressive Darkness, then for all their hits in Stealth, and 5 seconds after leaving Stealth, they should get piercing damage to all their powers ... Plus the Sab tree gets some nice stealth boosts.
This is probably a very lethal combination against classes that do not have a lot of deflect and/or cannot dodge. Defense and deflect will be useless against them.
@vordayn doesnt piercing ignore deflection too? preety sure my longshots never got delfected by TR, making it the only dmg that could reliably hit.
Ah yes, I think you are right. Piercing effects cannot be resisted or deflected according to some tooltips on the Neverwinter gamepedia. And if you hit them with longshot and it's not deflected then it's probably the case.
With regards to Oppressive Darkness, it doesn't always cause the power it procs it to crit. Tested it with just a pet to get CA, so not in stealth, it only did 3501.2 damage (2893.5*1.21), which is equivalent to the bonus applied from CA (in my case its 21% because of my CHA being 16, +6% CA). Usually though, TRs get CA with Stealth, thus proccing Oppressive Darkness and also getting crit bonus.
I didn't mean oppressive darkness makes the power you procced it with crit, I mean the piercing damage from oppressive darkness is supposedly always critical. I was not the tester for that so it may not be accurate. I would check the separate entity piercing damage part you mentioned to see if that is what is supposedly criting.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
With regards to Oppressive Darkness, it doesn't always cause the power it procs it to crit. Tested it with just a pet to get CA, so not in stealth, it only did 3501.2 damage (2893.5*1.21), which is equivalent to the bonus applied from CA (in my case its 21% because of my CHA being 16, +6% CA). Usually though, TRs get CA with Stealth, thus proccing Oppressive Darkness and also getting crit bonus.
I didn't mean oppressive darkness makes the power you procced it with crit, I mean the piercing damage from oppressive darkness is supposedly always critical. I was not the tester for that so it may not be accurate. I would check the separate entity piercing damage part you mentioned to see if that is what is supposedly criting.
The proc of Oppressive Darkness here does not crit: Column 'Critical' = False.
How is Opressive Darkness calculated and buffed ? ... no clue tbh. The most presumably answer is, they broke something. That´s what happens in this game all time, like SWW
Awesome finds, @vordayn .. and awesome work cryptic, again you proofed me right, not much to say.
@vordayn@leonidrex I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
Hateful Knives also benefits from 100% piercing when it procs with Oppressive Darkness.
See above:
1st Hateful Knives at 20% effectiveness (no CA): 514.0 + 342.7 +342.7
2nd Hateful Knives with no effectiveness listed as 100% piercing from Oppressive Darkness (Crit hit + CA): 5037.2 + 3358.1 + 3358.1 + 559.7 (Oppressive Darkness proc)
Note how the Base Damage of the Primary Hit of the 1st Hateful Knives is 2570.0. With CA + Crit it gets a 1.96 multiplier [1+0.75+(0.15+0.6)], thus 2570*1.96 = 5037.2 damage which is the damage dealt by the Primary Hit of the 2nd Hateful Knives. There is no mitigation evident.
Hateful Knives also gives CA 6 seconds after, thus it synergizes well with Oppressive Darkness which procs whenever you have CA.
Dazing Strike also provides CA momentarily. So all these sources with Oppressive Darkness will make all powers 100% piercing whenever CA is up.
I also checked it with Shadowy Opportunity, and it has the same effect at making the power 100% piercing.
Here there is no Crit or CA, so it's just 100% unmitigated damage.
It's funny, I remember a while back a few mods ago when the Devs said they removed most sources of piercing damage. But this bug probably persisted the past few mods without most people knowing about it. And when people asked for TR nerfs because of presumably the double-debuff dipping SoD, it was also probably partially due to this. Then the nerfs in PvP affected PvE, and PvE players were understandably upset as seen with the overwhelmingly negative TR feedback on the balancing slated for Mod 15 for their class.
I don't think Oppressive Darkness or Shadowy Opportunity is used much in PvE, at least not the piercing component of the proccing power, so fixing this bug shouldn't impact PvE much at all.
So hopefully if/when this bug is fixed, the Devs can go back to truly balancing the class and fine-tuning it to perform well in PvE and PvP as intended.
I also witnessed some pretty surprising matchresults from other TR´s not metioned here, maybe based on that bug. No clue why anyone would "lol" about his own attitude to abuse bugs like those (intended or unintended), since it is toxic towards that´s what´s left in NWO PVP, a niche of this game. It only leads to the next "rage-thread" about TR and PVP, damaging this small side-branch of the game and the class, followed by the next fix feeding the downward spiral TR has to suffer actually in PVE. If only cryptic would end piercing , it could be a solution once and for all.
@iceylolz11 guess it´s an obsession, lol And lol @NWO-PVP, getting wrecked by abusive, childish trolls, missing any responsability towards their own class destroying it step by step in PVE, have fun. Maybe cryptic should simply stop TR´s from taking part in PVP, by that drying out this small niche of scum player, the PVE-TR's will be thankfull 4ever doing that step. Or simply go on like now, where one troll equalizes the other per match, in case those are split on two teams. Last option, cryptic takes care about piercing once and for all, that´s what many asked for 5 years now.
* being a PVP-troll is not exclusively tied to TR class to be fair, many options are possible to take advantage from, instead of playing the class and the game legit.
I also witnessed some pretty surprising matchresults from other TR´s not metioned here, maybe based on that bug. No clue why anyone would "lol" about his own attitude to abuse bugs like those (intended or unintended), since it is toxic towards that´s what´s left in NWO PVP, a niche of this game. It only leads to the next "rage-thread" about TR and PVP, damaging this small side-branch of the game and the class, followed by the next fix feeding the downward spiral TR has to suffer actually in PVE. If only cryptic would end piercing , it could be a solution once and for all.
my opinion in the matter is that piercing should be gone, its of no use in PvE at all, and its broken as heck in pvp, even small bit of piercing that HR has in a feat has a potential to get out of hand one day, or maybe instead of removing piercing rework it, to simply strike with more armorpen? 40% armorpen turns into 60%? 100 into 150%? 10 into 15%
@iceylolz11 guess it´s an obsession, lol And lol @NWO-PVP, getting wrecked by abusive, childish trolls, missing any responsability towards their own class destroying it step by step in PVE, have fun. Maybe cryptic should simply stop TR´s from taking part in PVP, by that drying out this small niche of scum player, the PVE-TR's will be thankfull 4ever doing that step. Or simply go on like now, where one troll equalizes the other per match, in case those are split on two teams. Last option, cryptic takes care about piercing once and for all, that´s what many asked for 5 years now.
* being a PVP-troll is not exclusively tied to TR class to be fair, many options are possible to take advantage from, instead of playing the class and the game legit.
that moment when TR trolls 1v4 one match, and the next he meets his match and gets 1shoted by another TR to the point of running away the moment he is in sight. lol. I love it, since im the guy that will happily buff the HAMSTER out of another TR and see them burn.
The sad truth is, this bug has probably been hidden for X number of modules now, but the devs didn't, or don't, even know about it.
And even if we provide them data logs and proof it exists, and that they were linked to this thread @nitocris83, @noworries#8859, @terramak, but haven't acknowledged it shows that they do not hold it in high (or really any) priority.
A little bit of communication would have been ok, such as "We are aware this bug exists", but so far ... nada. Maybe they don't really care seeing their player base haemorrhaging.
It's really showing that this is a pointless exercise in trying to help the Devs fix this game ...
The sad truth is, this bug has probably been hidden for X number of modules now, but the devs didn't, or don't, even know about it.
And even if we provide them data logs and proof it exists, and that they were linked to this thread @nitocris83, @noworries#8859, @terramak, but haven't acknowledged it shows that they do not hold it in high (or really any) priority.
A little bit of communication would have been ok, such as "We are aware this bug exists", but so far ... nada. Maybe they don't really care seeing their player base haemorrhaging.
It's really showing that this is a pointless exercise in trying to help the Devs fix this game ...
it has been in play for since at least mod 12, i remember asking brollax why he hit me with 60% effectiveness with bloodbath, against my 300% dmg res pally. he just laughted ofc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Its sad that people didnt report something as major as this... I refuse to believe that all of those peeps didnt notice.
King, plz stop trying to equate archers with exploiter TRs regarding piercing. To make my archer work I a) have to run with a U.Dread, and b) 12k arpen. Why..? Because longshot is rubbish, that's why. So bad that in both mod13 and 14 I didn't bother with it at all, and only put 5 points into it this mod because stillness got nerfed...
piercing has no place in this game, developers take too long to balance things. even archers piercing WILL be too much one day, now its 10%, next mod 11, 5 mods later it will take 1/3 of your hp. If you wanna burst throught armour buy armor pen, plain and simple. Its not a rocket science, stack 20k+ armorpen like saber/nekros and you will hurt tanks.Most people run around with 10-14k, thats what? 40-50% pen, against me with at least 110% damage res without shield up its really not enaught. this is a problem here, people expect to be able to hurt everyone without minmaxing in special scenarios. GF with 10k armorpen goes for combo, doesnt really hurt me and whines that GF got nerfed too hard. Oppresive darkness, and other piercing in TR WILL be too much too, next mod comes out, i get 1k def, he gets 1k power. i take more dmg. it goes up and up and its not going down. and dont even start me on shocking EXECUTIONER, yea more like shocking 1shoter from full hp, no counerplay.
Hey everyone! Catching up on this thread after being away for a couple weeks on holiday (Cryptic offices are also closed between Christmas and New Years). I'll pass on this thread to the systems folks. Thanks!
many thx, true that there are not many ppl that still doing pvp and this bug is a major issue for us that still do it, but may we have an update regarding this matter? There are really TR that are abusing the HAMSTER out of this bug in dominion...
@vordayn some TR's apparently knew its bugged " insert suprised pikachu meme " and stated it only ignores defence, while piercing ignores both defence and deflection. Would you be willing to test it out? I am willing to help if you find me online. (im not online often cuz work these days but we could figure something out). All for science ofc!
Comments
with all the stuff mentioned above i wouldn't be surprised if their effectiveness was that high
Tested this in Preview, with a '1000 damage' Test Weapon mainhand (no off-hand), against the right-sided training dummy in Port Nyanzaru (level 73). No other items, boons or companions equipped. The only feats I had which contributed to damage were Gutterborn and Shadowy Opportunity in the Saboteur tree. STR 12 (+2% damage) and CHA 16 (+6% CA damage).
As you can see above, Base Damage without Crit or CA (Stealth) for Gloaming Cut was 2042.5. The training dummy has a damage resistance of 85%, thus effectiveness was 20% (DR cannot go above 80%), hence base effective damage 408.5.
Note the column 'Flank' represents Combat Advantage while in Stealth.
The area highlighted in red shows Gloaming Cut damage (no Crit, no CA) as 2246.7 combined with a Shadowy Opportunity proc of 480.1. This Gloaming Cut damage is still benefiting from the Gutterborn effect (+10% damage). Hence, this damage equals the Base Damage*1.1(Gutterborn) = 2042.5*1.1 = 2246.7.
When Shadowy Opportunity finishes, the Gloaming Cut damage resumes its normal damage. Note the Gloaming cut damage 561.7 is still benefitting from Gutterborn, but when Gutterborn finishes, it returns to its non-crit no-CA value of 408.5.
The ACT log above shows the same attack pattern without Shadowy Opportunity.
Description for Shadowy Opportunity is: So yes, I do believe this is a bug, as Shadowy Opportunity makes each attack it procs from piercing, as well as providing the additional weapon damage.
A minor note, but Gutterborn also adds 10% Defenses Ignored, not 10% Armor Penetration - I think the tooltips should be updated to reflect this. You can see that effectivess goes up to 25% when it procs, as the DR of the training dummy gets reduced to 75%.
A minor note, but Gutterborn also adds 10% Defenses Ignored, not 10% Armor Penetration - I think the tooltips should be updated to reflect this. You can see that effectivess goes up to 25% when it procs, as the DR of the training dummy gets reduced to 75%.
thank you for putting time and effort to find this, when i read what shadow opportunity does, i assumed it strikes with additional hit, kinda like weapon encahntment, and since it appeared in the logs i didnt think nothing of it.
so what you are saying it not only deals 50% weapon dmg hit as piercing, but also converts 50% of the dmg into piercing ?
You may want to check oppressive darkness passive too and see if anything is bugged, many of the TRs you have encountered recently are not sabotuers, there are several scoundrels PVPing on PC as well and we have 0 piercing damage feats. Pretty much all TRs run oppressive darkness right now and I was told recently that oppressive darkness piercing damage always crits, which may or may not be intentional, the devs stated it had been buffed in the rework patch notes but didn't mention anything about it being critical piercing damage.
I would also check how piercing damage sources interact with the whisperknife hateful knives daily, it is hitting freakishly hard as I mentioned earlyer, its a prone too though so that probably explains part of what I'm seeing.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Also tested and works with Cloud of Steel, and Dazing Strike. See below for Dazing Strike
The amount of damage Dazing Strike does with Shadowy Opportunity is equal to the unmitigated damage of Dazing Strike.
The power becomes completely piercing as well.
Which would also explain a bit of @terylion's post about TRs doing a lot of damage without any armor penetration.
Base damage of Dazing Strike is 2893.5. When I use DS in stealth it gets both CA + Crit (hence damage formula is [1+CritSev+(CA+CA[stat])] = [1+0.75+(.15+.06)] = 1.96. So 2893.5*1.96 = 5671.26.
It seems like the modifier which adds %piercing damage also modifies the proccing power as completely piercing.
With regards to Oppressive Darkness, it doesn't always cause the power it procs it to crit. Tested it with just a pet to get CA, so not in stealth, it only did 3501.2 damage (2893.5*1.21), which is equivalent to the bonus applied from CA (in my case its 21% because of my CHA being 16, +6% CA). Usually though, TRs get CA with Stealth, thus proccing Oppressive Darkness and also getting crit bonus.
@nitocris83, @terramak, @noworries#8859 can you please look into this: both Shadowy Opportunity and Oppressive darkness adding piercing effects to proccing power, when it isn't listed in the tooltips or patch notes?
This is probably a very lethal combination against classes that
do not have a lot of deflect and/orcannot dodge. Defense and deflect will be useless against them.PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The proc of Oppressive Darkness here does not crit: Column 'Critical' = False.
.. and awesome work cryptic, again you proofed me right, not much to say.
See above:
- 1st Hateful Knives at 20% effectiveness (no CA): 514.0 + 342.7 +342.7
- 2nd Hateful Knives with no effectiveness listed as 100% piercing from Oppressive Darkness (Crit hit + CA): 5037.2 + 3358.1 + 3358.1 + 559.7 (Oppressive Darkness proc)
Note how the Base Damage of the Primary Hit of the 1st Hateful Knives is 2570.0. With CA + Crit it gets a 1.96 multiplier [1+0.75+(0.15+0.6)], thus 2570*1.96 = 5037.2 damage which is the damage dealt by the Primary Hit of the 2nd Hateful Knives. There is no mitigation evident.Hateful Knives also gives CA 6 seconds after, thus it synergizes well with Oppressive Darkness which procs whenever you have CA.
Dazing Strike also provides CA momentarily. So all these sources with Oppressive Darkness will make all powers 100% piercing whenever CA is up.
I also checked it with Shadowy Opportunity, and it has the same effect at making the power 100% piercing.
Here there is no Crit or CA, so it's just 100% unmitigated damage.
I don't think Oppressive Darkness or Shadowy Opportunity is used much in PvE, at least not the piercing component of the proccing power, so fixing this bug shouldn't impact PvE much at all.
So hopefully if/when this bug is fixed, the Devs can go back to truly balancing the class and fine-tuning it to perform well in PvE and PvP as intended.
It only leads to the next "rage-thread" about TR and PVP, damaging this small side-branch of the game and the class, followed by the next fix feeding the downward spiral TR has to suffer actually in PVE.
If only cryptic would end piercing , it could be a solution once and for all.
guess it´s an obsession, lol
And lol @NWO-PVP, getting wrecked by abusive, childish trolls, missing any responsability towards their own class destroying it step by step in PVE, have fun.
Maybe cryptic should simply stop TR´s from taking part in PVP, by that drying out this small niche of scum player, the PVE-TR's will be thankfull 4ever doing that step.
Or simply go on like now, where one troll equalizes the other per match, in case those are split on two teams.
Last option, cryptic takes care about piercing once and for all, that´s what many asked for 5 years now.
* being a PVP-troll is not exclusively tied to TR class to be fair, many options are possible to take advantage from, instead of playing the class and the game legit.
And even if we provide them data logs and proof it exists, and that they were linked to this thread @nitocris83, @noworries#8859, @terramak, but haven't acknowledged it shows that they do not hold it in high (or really any) priority.
A little bit of communication would have been ok, such as "We are aware this bug exists", but so far ... nada. Maybe they don't really care seeing their player base haemorrhaging.
It's really showing that this is a pointless exercise in trying to help the Devs fix this game ...
Its sad that people didnt report something as major as this... I refuse to believe that all of those peeps didnt notice.
Are we clear now..?
and dont even start me on shocking EXECUTIONER, yea more like shocking 1shoter from full hp, no counerplay.
many thx, true that there are not many ppl that still doing pvp and this bug is a major issue for us that still do it, but may we have an update regarding this matter? There are really TR that are abusing the HAMSTER out of this bug in dominion...